Re: New tinySA-App.exe: Added mode, rbw and attenuation buttons
Forgot to mention
- Settings panel allows setting of field separator ( such as " " or ";" or ",") and decimal dot (such as "." or ",") in csv files
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Re: New tinySA-App.exe: Added mode, rbw and attenuation buttons
I'm still finding my way in the rather large amount of code OneOfEleven wrote.
Hope this time its better, at least its more teste
Release tinySA App 1.0.203.2
Changes:
- Version number increased
- start/stop no longer reset
- mode switch directly reflected on tinySA
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Re: New SA User - Basic Question on TinySA
#tinysa
Dear Erik,
Thankyou. I never got very far with HDSDR as my computer got overloaded and was not fast enough. I also never really got far with Softrock either, so what you managed to do is a bit confusing (to me), but you demonstrated that there is good separation at 10khz with a decent dynamic range between the two frequencies. A resolution bandwidth of 100hz on a professional SA will still only be able to separate two frequencies with 40 db dynamic range 1-2khz apart, because of the skirts of the rbw filters (or the virtual skirts implicit in the fft process).
The skirts were deliberately fairly wide (in the old analogue machines) to reduce ringing. Even so, using the narrowest rbw, you had to have such a slow sweep speed, that unless the display tube had a store function (how many people remember that), it was almost useless trying to follow the moving spot on the crt screen.
I think we all accept that there is a limit to what can be achieved and it is still an excellent device.
Steve L.?
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Re: New SA User - Basic Question on TinySA
#tinysa
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 04:42 PM, <david.hostetler@...> wrote:
As long as the skirt of the RBW filter is down 50 dB at 1.2 kHz
It's not, and because of? limitations of the hardware, it ain't gonna be.
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Re: New tinySA-App.exe: Added mode, rbw and attenuation buttons
Hi Erik,
I noticed point 3 also and later checked 1 and 2 and I agree.
I found another problem: after doing any scan and I try to exit
the program with the comm disconnected, it throws : "Range check
error". I have to reconnect in order to be able to exit. I does
not happens before doing a scan.
And a request: At least the last 3 versions were labeled tinySA
App 1.0.203. I usually keep older versions temporarily? as a means
to return to a good one if the new fails, but due to this
repetition I deleted the 2 previous with the last one, please keep
updating the version number on each release unless this means
extra workload.
Bet regards,
Ignacio EB4APL
El 04/10/2020 a las 21:37, hwalker
escribi¨®:
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 10:14 AM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:
New tinySA-App release
I added the mode, rbw and attenuation comboboxes
As I'm still getting used to the coding style I am not
absolutely sory everything will always work.
But a quick test did not blow up the tinySA
The large button to the left of the scan frequency selection
boxes resets the scan range to the the full range of the
selected mode
Erik,
? 1. The rbw and attenuation combo boxes work as expected and
their values are immediately reflected on the tinySA.
? 2. The mode combo box changes the start/stop frequencies to
default values for each input mode, but does not change the input
mode itself.
? 3. Entering a new start/stop frequency in tinySA-App and
selecting scan is resetting the start/stop frequencies back to
their default values, instead of updating the tinySA sweep range
to the new values and starting a sweep.? I re-checked the previous
version and all works as expected.
? 4. I noticed Trace smoothing and Time averaging have been
re-introduced.? Trace smoothing has to be used carefully as there
is no threshold parameter and all peaks are reduced (see below).
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Re: New SA User - Basic Question on TinySA
#tinysa
The American Radio Relay League (United States ham organization) has a lab test procedure that uses 700 and 1900 tones for a two tone intermodulation test. Their procedure sets the SA RBW to 100 Hz, but that may be a bit overkill. As long as the skirt of the RBW filter is down 50 dB at 1.2 kHz, you could reliably measure -40 dB intermodulation. Don't know how much relief that gives on the filter performance requirement, but I am sure it is some.
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Re: New SA User - Basic Question on TinySA
#tinysa
Hy other heavy iron is a gently used HP 3585B that I got for free. It is a sweet instrument but so large I had to put it in a different room from where the workbench is. I've been playing with the TinySA too much lately when I should be doing other work. 73 -Jim NU0C On Sun, 04 Oct 2020 15:20:02 -0700 "Jim Allyn - N7JA" <jim@...> wrote: On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 11:20 AM, Jim Shorney wrote:
I am one of those "few radio enthusiasts" who would do this. And you are
correct in that I did not expect the TinySA to be able to do it. But I
bought one anyway. :)
I am also one of the "few radio enthusiasts" who would do this, and in fact, the first thing I did when I got my first tinySA was look at close-in performance.? I was hopeful, but it won't do SSB transmitter IMD tests.? But I have another SA that will, and the tinySA will do so much amazing stuff, including LOTS of things that my bigger, much more expensive SA won't do, or won't easily do, so the tinySA is well worth the price..? I currently own 3 tinySAs, and I'm thinking about getting another one to keep in the car.? (You never know when you might need a spectrum analyzer, you know.)
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Re: New SA User - Basic Question on TinySA
#tinysa
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 11:20 AM, Jim Shorney wrote:
I am one of those "few radio enthusiasts" who would do this. And you are correct in that I did not expect the TinySA to be able to do it. But I bought one anyway. :)
I am also one of the "few radio enthusiasts" who would do this, and in fact, the first thing I did when I got my first tinySA was look at close-in performance.? I was hopeful, but it won't do SSB transmitter IMD tests.? But I have another SA that will, and the tinySA will do so much amazing stuff, including LOTS of things that my bigger, much more expensive SA won't do, or won't easily do, so the tinySA is well worth the price..? I currently own 3 tinySAs, and I'm thinking about getting another one to keep in the car.? (You never know when you might need a spectrum analyzer, you know.) I believe that the close-in performance of the tinySA can be improved somewhat, but haven't had the time to do experiment with it, and even with the improvements I have in mind, it still won't do SSB transmitter IMD tests.? Nonetheless, a fine piece of equipment.? Everybody should have one (or several).
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Re: New tinySA-App.exe: Added mode, rbw and attenuation buttons
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 02:34 PM, David Maley wrote:
Wondering what kind of PC this software is built for? ?Having issues with usb/ rs232 port emulation crashing on me. ?The firmware update ok, but otherwise a problem on a fast i7 with 16gb ram. ?I do have an early laptop, still with cp, used as a toolbox, that I can use instead. ?It actually has a real rs232 port.
David, ? ?The software should run on any Windows PC or laptop with a USB2 or USB3 interface.? In tinySA-App, select the comport that the tinySA is connected to from the dropdown box (i.e. COM5) and you should be good to go.? The speed setting is meaningless for USB and Erik will probably disable it to avoid confusion.? The NanoVNA version of the program used it for setting up DiSlord's wireless module modification. - Herb
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Re: New tinySA-App.exe: Added mode, rbw and attenuation buttons
IMO trace smoothing is best for looking at individual modulated signals scanned at high resolution. See attached images of a local FM broadcaster with no smoothing, half, and full. 73 -Jim NU0C On Sun, 04 Oct 2020 12:37:36 -0700 "hwalker" <herbwalker2476@...> wrote: I noticed Trace smoothing and Time averaging have been re-introduced.? Trace smoothing has to be used carefully as there is no threshold parameter and all peaks are reduced (see below).
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Re: New tinySA-App.exe: Added mode, rbw and attenuation buttons
Wondering what kind of PC this software is built for? ?Having issues with usb/ rs232 port emulation crashing on me. ?The firmware update ok, but otherwise a problem on a fast i7 with 16gb ram. ?I do have an early laptop, still with cp, used as a toolbox, that I can use instead. ?It actually has a real rs232 port. Thanks Sent from Dave Maley's IPad
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 4, 2020, at 14:37, hwalker <herbwalker2476@...> wrote:
?On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 10:14 AM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:
New tinySA-App release
I added the mode, rbw and attenuation comboboxes
As I'm still getting used to the coding style I am not absolutely sory everything will always work.
But a quick test did not blow up the tinySA
The large button to the left of the scan frequency selection boxes resets the scan range to the the full range of the selected mode
Erik, ? 1. The rbw and attenuation combo boxes work as expected and their values are immediately reflected on the tinySA. ? 2. The mode combo box changes the start/stop frequencies to default values for each input mode, but does not change the input mode itself. ? 3. Entering a new start/stop frequency in tinySA-App and selecting scan is resetting the start/stop frequencies back to their default values, instead of updating the tinySA sweep range to the new values and starting a sweep.? I re-checked the previous version and all works as expected. ? 4. I noticed Trace smoothing and Time averaging have been re-introduced.? Trace smoothing has to be used carefully as there is no threshold parameter and all peaks are reduced (see below). ? ? ?No Trace Smoothing? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Same as previous but with Trace Smoothing = 2 ??  ? ??? ??  - Herb
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Re: New tinySA-App.exe: Added mode, rbw and attenuation buttons
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 10:14 AM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:
New tinySA-App release
I added the mode, rbw and attenuation comboboxes
As I'm still getting used to the coding style I am not absolutely sory everything will always work.
But a quick test did not blow up the tinySA
The large button to the left of the scan frequency selection boxes resets the scan range to the the full range of the selected mode
Erik, ? 1. The rbw and attenuation combo boxes work as expected and their values are immediately reflected on the tinySA. ? 2. The mode combo box changes the start/stop frequencies to default values for each input mode, but does not change the input mode itself. ? 3. Entering a new start/stop frequency in tinySA-App and selecting scan is resetting the start/stop frequencies back to their default values, instead of updating the tinySA sweep range to the new values and starting a sweep.? I re-checked the previous version and all works as expected. ? 4. I noticed Trace smoothing and Time averaging have been re-introduced.? Trace smoothing has to be used carefully as there is no threshold parameter and all peaks are reduced (see below). ? ? ?No Trace Smoothing? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Same as previous but with Trace Smoothing = 2 ??  ? ??? ??  - Herb
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Re: New SA User - Basic Question on TinySA
#tinysa
I am one of those "few radio enthusiasts" who would do this. And you are correct in that I did not expect the TinySA to be able to do it. But I bought one anyway. :) I have equipment that can do this but it takes up considerable more bench space than the tiny. My current project is evaluating substitute PA transistors to replace devices in a transceiver that have gone obsolete or dramatically increased in price. This is more what someone doing transmitter repair would need. The attached photo is the screen of my HP 8594E doing just such a measurement. 73 -Jim NU0C On Sun, 04 Oct 2020 09:18:19 -0700 "Stephen Laurence" <Gaslaurence@...> wrote: Dear Erik,
Yes, your screenshots I think demonstrate what I was trying to say. I cannot set up my old boatanchor to show a screenshot of intermodulation products generated by a power amplifier within the ssb audio bandwidth (and I do not have the two-tone audio generator to produce 300hz and 2.7khz - yes I have, the Ipad has an app to do it). ?However, the tinysa will never be able to show it unless the two RF power generator method is used with frequencies at least 10khz apart.
I do not think anyone would expect the tinysa to do it. Actually very few radio enthusiasts would need it unless building or setting up a power amplifier, and then might never need to do it again in their lifetime. This excellent device should be used for what it can do very well, with a minute footprint, minute cost, maintenance and power consumption ( I had to deliberately avoid using the word tiny just there).
Steve L. G7PSZ
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New tinySA-App.exe: Added mode, rbw and attenuation buttons
New tinySA-App release
I added the mode, rbw and attenuation comboboxes
As I'm still getting used to the coding style I am not absolutely sory everything will always work.
But a quick test did not blow up the tinySA
The large button to the left of the scan frequency selection boxes resets the scan range to the the full range of the selected mode
Have fun!
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Re: New SA User - Basic Question on TinySA
#tinysa
Steve,
I did not increase the separation to 4kHz as the audio filters in HDSDR makes that impossible
As the HDSDR uses an i/q audio (192kHz bandwidth) to steer the output of the SoftRock when you offset TX away from the LO you can get intermodulation products at the other side of the LO
The LO of the softRock was 7.1MHz, TX was at 7.104MHz (USB) with the fundamentals at 7.104300MHz (300Hz) and 7.106500MHz (2500Mz) , The LO of the I/Q mixer was at 7.1MHz so what you see to the left of 7.1MHz is an intermodulation product originating in the I/Q mixer causing the mirror suppression to fail so it appears at the other side of the LO
The same (equally strong) products appear to the right of the LO around the 300Hz and 2500Hz signals but as the original signals are not visible at the other side of the LO these do not mask the intermodulation products at the other side of the LO.
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Re: New SA User - Basic Question on TinySA
#tinysa
Dear Erik,
Looking again at your screenshots, I think the last one where you increased the separation to 4khz actually shows the two fundamentals, but not of equal amplitude. An intermod scan would show the two original frequencies of equal amplitude with a symetrical ?diminishing ¡°comb¡± of intermod products either side of the fundamentals, spaced at the difference of the two fundamental frequencies (every 4khz).
steve L
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Re: New SA User - Basic Question on TinySA
#tinysa
Dear Erik,
Yes, your screenshots I think demonstrate what I was trying to say. I cannot set up my old boatanchor to show a screenshot of intermodulation products generated by a power amplifier within the ssb audio bandwidth (and I do not have the two-tone audio generator to produce 300hz and 2.7khz - yes I have, the Ipad has an app to do it). ?However, the tinysa will never be able to show it unless the two RF power generator method is used with frequencies at least 10khz apart.
I do not think anyone would expect the tinysa to do it. Actually very few radio enthusiasts would need it unless building or setting up a power amplifier, and then might never need to do it again in their lifetime. This excellent device should be used for what it can do very well, with a minute footprint, minute cost, maintenance and power consumption ( I had to deliberately avoid using the word tiny just there).
Steve L. G7PSZ
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Re: New video: Spectrum Analyzer basics
All video's should be reachable via? "videos" in the left navigation frame (I see I missed the paper animation video)
but your suggestion is good, I will add a generic link to the tinySA playlist
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Re: New video: Spectrum Analyzer basics
Erik:
Not sure if you have a link on tinySA.org to your YouTube channel. ?Might be there now?
Your YouTube tutorial was excellent and your use of of ¡°paper animation¡± ?was highly effective. ?
Highly recommended. ?10/10.
--
73, Bernie, VE3FWF
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Re: New SA User - Basic Question on TinySA
#tinysa
As an experiment. HDSDR and SoftRock Ensemble RXTX at 7.1MHz LO, USB transmission at 7.1MHz with two tones, 300Hz and 2.5kHz Using an RPS1 to verify the amount of intermodulation products First with less then -50dBc first intermodulation products  With -40dBc first intermodulation product  with -30dBc intermodulation  and with -20dBc intermodulation  Its not possible to do a quantitative analysis but at least you see when it gets really bad. If you offset the transmission frequency 4kHz from the LO (easy to do in HDSDR you can see the intermodulation product much better as they appear at the other side of the LO 
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Jim Allyn - N7JA
Jim Shorney
Ham Radio
