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[TDD] Suggestion, advice on TDD adoption

Keith Ray #35649 开云体育 It really really helps to have a coach working with your team and its code. C. Keith Ray twitter: @ckeithray toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Apr 6, 2016, at 4:53 AM, poojawandile@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: ? HI, We have recently started using TDD. We have gone through the training, learned some of the TDD good practices/challenges, using junit, mockito tools/framework etc. Since its an early start to the journey, I would be glad to hear some practical advice from folks here, some of the DOs and Dont's, tips and tricks etc. We are going to have a bumpy ride, especially with exisitng code, so it will really help if we can hear from experinced people.? Thanks, pooja
Russell Gold All Messages By This Member #35650 开云体育 On Apr 6, 2016, at 4:57 PM, Keith Ray keith.ray@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: It really really helps to have a coach working with your team and its code. This is really a key. Without a coach, you are going to wind up trying things, not understanding why they don’t work, and largely reinventing a lot of practices. A coach can save you an incredible lot of time. You can get some of it from books such as Robert Martin’s??(and other books in the series), but a good coach is still much better. On Apr 6, 2016, at 4:53 AM,?poojawandile@...?[testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: We have recently started using TDD. We have gone through the training, learned some of the TDD good practices/challenges, using junit, mockito tools/framework etc. Since its an early start to the journey, I would be glad to hear some practical advice from folks here, some of the DOs and Dont's, tips and tricks etc. We are going to have a bumpy ride, especially with exisitng code, so it will really help if we can hear from experinced people.? ----------------- Author,?Getting Started with Apache Maven <> Author, HttpUnit <> and SimpleStub <> Come read my webnovel,?Take a Lemon?<>,? and listen to the Misfile radio play <>!
Adam Sroka All Messages By This Member #35651 On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Russell Gold russ@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: ? On Apr 6, 2016, at 4:57 PM, Keith Ray keith.ray@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: It really really helps to have a coach working with your team and its code. This is really a key. Without a coach, you are going to wind up trying things, not understanding why they don’t work, and largely reinventing a lot of practices. A coach can save you an incredible lot of time. You can get some of it from books such as Robert Martin’s??(and other books in the series), but a good coach is still much better. While I don’t disagree with this, the kind of coaching being described is expensive and people who can do it well are rare. It is very similar to hiring a senior developer—the one you want you cannot afford and the one you can afford you don’t want.? You CAN do it without a coach. You can potentially avoid a number of pitfalls and delays with a good coach. It is a business decision whether the price of the coach is worth the reduction in risk.?
[email protected] #35652 Yes, +1 to Adam I did some coaching work last year, lots of scrum teams, we had great fun, happy to?share a few learnings from that, there were a few things that really worked. ?What are you trying to achieve, just in rough terms? ?Is it a big change? ?How much support in your team?? I will write something up, but fun hands on stuff works best, anything that will help devs and QAs to pair, dojos at lunchtime with some good sandwiches : ) Cheers Ken
Steve Gordon All Messages By This Member #35653 pooja, Not sure where you are located, but it might be worth looking into what local resources are available. Is there a Scrum or Agile Meetup (or Users Group)?? If so, encourage your coworkers to attend when they can.? There could be local experts who would be able to do some dojos or presentations for much less expense than a full-time coach.
Avi Kessner All Messages By This Member #35654 If you have the time, and can't find local coaches, assigning one member of your team to teach a session, and then rotating , could also help.? I find teaching is often a great way to learn, and also helps build "buy in" to the cultural changes needed. On Apr 7, 2016 6:42 PM, "Steven Gordon sgordonphd@... [testdrivendevelopment]" <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: toggle quoted message Show quoted text ? pooja, Not sure where you are located, but it might be worth looking into what local resources are available. Is there a Scrum or Agile Meetup (or Users Group)?? If so, encourage your coworkers to attend when they can.? There could be local experts who would be able to do some dojos or presentations for much less expense than a full-time coach.
Al Chou All Messages By This Member #35655
Charlie Poole All Messages By This Member #35656 There are many good ideas here. Try some of them. But keep this in the back of your mind: Management cannot create a team. A coach cannot create a team. Only the team can create itself. What you can do is to provide resources, information and opportunities. Let them know what a true team is like. Give them the chance to be together. Help solve problems. The group may decide to become a team - in fact it's very likely if the conditions are right. People are designed to work on teams. One just has to let them discover that fact. Charlie toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:00 AM, hotfusionman@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: ? Yes, the Socratic approach to learning can be great. At my office, I'm currently leading live TDD work sessions I've titled "Stump the Chump", emulating a technique my grad school mentor's mentor (my grand-mentor? :) ) used in teaching mathematical physics: show up to class and just try to work a problem, showing how it goes in real life rather than a prepared/rigged demo, complete with throw-it-all-away mistakes and all other sorts of warts. The idea is both to show that it works and to show how to succeed despite problems. In the process, even though I've done TDD for years, I too am learning things about both TDD and how to teach it. me On Apr 7, 2016, 08:49 -0700, Avi Kessner akessner@... [testdrivendevelopment] <testdrivendevelopment@...>, wrote: If you have the time, and can't find local coaches, assigning one member of your team to teach a session, and then rotating , could also help.? I find teaching is often a great way to learn, and also helps build "buy in" to the cultural changes needed. On Apr 7, 2016 6:42 PM, "Steven Gordon sgordonphd@... [testdrivendevelopment]" <testdrivendevelopment@...> wrote: ? pooja, Not sure where you are located, but it might be worth looking into what local resources are available. Is there a Scrum or Agile Meetup (or Users Group)?? If so, encourage your coworkers to attend when they can.? There could be local experts who would be able to do some dojos or presentations for much less expense than a full-time coach.
Pooja Wandile All Messages By This Member #35657 Thanks Ken. It will really help if you could share some of your learnings.? -Pooja

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