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Well yes, I consider MVVM a given, and Caliburn.Micro looks like a good option. ?Now for testing a view I think I should want a fake ViewModel that just gives the view fixed data in order to see how

Hi Steve, The fact that the user has to test the whole app anyway could be used as an excuse to eliminate all kinds of testing. In fact is has been used that way. In Windows days, "Make your GUI

I haven't done much with WPF for a couple of years but you can use MVVM and unit test the subcutaneous layer or you can use an automation tool like White

It's software - of course, things can go wrong, even when there is 100% test coverage. Tests cannot fully specify/verify the usability of GUI by humans, so manual testing of the GUI is necessary

Okay so I want to make a medium fancy list control on a page of a dialog, where each element of the list has a bunch of dropdowns arranged and styled nicely, and with contents of these dropdowns being

So I guess nothing can go wrong! :-)

A benefit of Avi's approach is that it highly encourages a thin GUI that delegates as much as possible to directly testable code that reside in other DLLs, which we all know results in a better, more

"The UI itself can't be tested with unit tests." ?Do you mean to suggest the UI itself won't be tested? ?You say controls should be tested, but how can you do this in the context of WPF which likes

What's about MVVM and test the view model? I would look for Caliburn.Micro

The general rule we have is to test the model and the controls that dictate the changes to the UI, but the UI itself can't be tested with unit tests. Alternatively, you can try to take screen shots

I'm kind of new to WPF and trying to TDD an application that uses it. ?I'm a little frustrated that Microsoft's default program architecture still isn't TDD friendly. ?It creates an application

PLoP = Pattern Languages of Programs, as far as I remember. Check: http://www.hillside.net/plop/2013/ http://www.hillside.net/plop/2013/ ---In testdrivendevelopment@...,

On Monday, October 28, Agile Denver will host guest speaker Stephan Hagemann. Stephan will present on the Go language (golang). Go was invented at Google and includes enhancements that can make it

Keith Ray wrote: In that case you just got pwned by a framework. Ouch. Adding to what I said before, the in/out view blurs if you create thin verticals, which you should, but even then I prefer going

Where does that data come from? Programmers or external sources? Development time or runtime? I don't test against programmers but might test if data comes from a file or database. Humans can

IIRC, the terms London and Detroit school were dreamt up on this list as a reaction to the negative reactions to "mockist/statist" terminology. Can't remember who suggested them, but they stuck at

Speaking about Detroit and London Schools, did you read the book Growing Object Oriented Software Guided by Tests (GOOS) from Steve Freeman an Nat Price? Just

Hi David, In fact I generally work "outside-in", with occasional experiments on "I wonder whether, if I took this course, I could make such and so happen", where I'll build some inside thing. I would

I will be honest. Except for the most basic of VOs I don't know how you can be sure of what is 'inside' and what is 'outside'. Sometimes even your GUI becomes a component for a wrapper.

An interesting discussion. I must admit that it hadn't really occurred to me that much parameter validation could be a complete waste of time, so thanks for the insight. It does seem to me that even