I just forwarded an eBay link of a TAG slide someone has for sale. It is listed as a TAG train. This is in fact the crew building the southbound train. This is at Alton Park, below the Lookout Oil plant, near the Central of Georgia belt line and where the TAG/Chattanooga Belt Railway crossed Central Avenue. North of the 4 milepost.
Warren
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Re: Republic Steel locomotives roster
Contact Brendan Brosnan at: B.Brosnan@.... ?Brendan has much data on steel mills, he may have a roster for GSS or know where you could get one.?
On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 07:40:41 PM CDT, arnoldeaves <aseaves@...> wrote:
Warren, Fascinating.? Thank you for digging out this information for us.? I wish I could help you but I don't have the steel mill background to find this info. I do have a friend who models the steel industry and I'll see if he might have a lead. Arnold > On 09/09/2022 6:30 PM Warren Stephens < wdstephens@...> wrote: > >? > I have long tried to get a roster of steam and diesel switchers that were in service at Alabama City/Gadsden Alabama at Republic Steel. I have seen lots of broad shots of the mill where you couldn¡¯t really tell much about the steam engines off in the distance. This week I got lucky and found four roster shots of three of the steam engines. They were stamped as official Republic Steel Gadsden pics. These were date stamped 1951. These are what appears to be a 2-8-0 numbered 300. An 0-8-0 304 and an 0-6-0 numbered 297. I have another pic in my collection of diesel 893 also an official Republic Gadsden pic and date stamped 1952. So Republic in Gadsden evidently diesalized early. I also have a Kodachrome slide dated 1963 of the still active 297 in service at Republic Steel Birmingham. I assume that Birmingham diesalized much later than Gadsden. Any information about Republic locomotives in Gadsden and Birmingham would be greatly appreciated. Also I have a question about one other locomotive that served in Gadsden. Prior to being purchased by Republic the mill was known as Gulf States Steel. I have a builder¡¯s pic of an 0-6-0 lettered Gulf States Steel and numbered 31. It has an older style headlight but more modern valve gears. Does anyone know anything about this GSS engine? Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Warren D. Stephens > CofG and TA&G nut > > >
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Re: Republic Steel locomotives roster
On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 07:40:41 PM CDT, arnoldeaves <aseaves@...> wrote:
Warren, Fascinating.? Thank you for digging out this information for us.? I wish I could help you but I don't have the steel mill background to find this info. I do have a friend who models the steel industry and I'll see if he might have a lead. Arnold > On 09/09/2022 6:30 PM Warren Stephens < wdstephens@...> wrote: > >? > I have long tried to get a roster of steam and diesel switchers that were in service at Alabama City/Gadsden Alabama at Republic Steel. I have seen lots of broad shots of the mill where you couldn¡¯t really tell much about the steam engines off in the distance. This week I got lucky and found four roster shots of three of the steam engines. They were stamped as official Republic Steel Gadsden pics. These were date stamped 1951. These are what appears to be a 2-8-0 numbered 300. An 0-8-0 304 and an 0-6-0 numbered 297. I have another pic in my collection of diesel 893 also an official Republic Gadsden pic and date stamped 1952. So Republic in Gadsden evidently diesalized early. I also have a Kodachrome slide dated 1963 of the still active 297 in service at Republic Steel Birmingham. I assume that Birmingham diesalized much later than Gadsden. Any information about Republic locomotives in Gadsden and Birmingham would be greatly appreciated. Also I have a question about one other locomotive that served in Gadsden. Prior to being purchased by Republic the mill was known as Gulf States Steel. I have a builder¡¯s pic of an 0-6-0 lettered Gulf States Steel and numbered 31. It has an older style headlight but more modern valve gears. Does anyone know anything about this GSS engine? Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Warren D. Stephens > CofG and TA&G nut > > >
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Re: Republic Steel locomotives roster
Warren,
Fascinating. Thank you for digging out this information for us. I wish I could help you but I don't have the steel mill background to find this info. I do have a friend who models the steel industry and I'll see if he might have a lead.
Arnold
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On 09/09/2022 6:30 PM Warren Stephens <wdstephens@...> wrote:
I have long tried to get a roster of steam and diesel switchers that were in service at Alabama City/Gadsden Alabama at Republic Steel. I have seen lots of broad shots of the mill where you couldn¡¯t really tell much about the steam engines off in the distance. This week I got lucky and found four roster shots of three of the steam engines. They were stamped as official Republic Steel Gadsden pics. These were date stamped 1951. These are what appears to be a 2-8-0 numbered 300. An 0-8-0 304 and an 0-6-0 numbered 297. I have another pic in my collection of diesel 893 also an official Republic Gadsden pic and date stamped 1952. So Republic in Gadsden evidently diesalized early. I also have a Kodachrome slide dated 1963 of the still active 297 in service at Republic Steel Birmingham. I assume that Birmingham diesalized much later than Gadsden. Any information about Republic locomotives in Gadsden and Birmingham would be greatly appreciated. Also I have a question about one other locomotive that served in Gadsden. Prior to being purchased by Republic the mill was known as Gulf States Steel. I have a builder¡¯s pic of an 0-6-0 lettered Gulf States Steel and numbered 31. It has an older style headlight but more modern valve gears. Does anyone know anything about this GSS engine? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Warren D. Stephens
CofG and TA&G nut
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Republic Steel locomotives roster
I have long tried to get a roster of steam and diesel switchers that were in service at Alabama City/Gadsden Alabama at Republic Steel. I have seen lots of broad shots of the mill where you couldn¡¯t really tell much about the steam engines off in the distance. This week I got lucky and found four roster shots of three of the steam engines. They were stamped as official Republic Steel Gadsden pics. These were date stamped 1951. These are what appears to be a 2-8-0 numbered 300. An 0-8-0 304 and an 0-6-0 numbered 297. I have another pic in my collection of diesel 893 also an official Republic Gadsden pic and date stamped 1952. So Republic in Gadsden evidently diesalized early. I also have a Kodachrome slide dated 1963 of the still active 297 in service at Republic Steel Birmingham. I assume that Birmingham diesalized much later than Gadsden. Any information about Republic locomotives in Gadsden and Birmingham would be greatly appreciated. Also I have a question about one other locomotive that served in Gadsden. Prior to being purchased by Republic the mill was known as Gulf States Steel. I have a builder¡¯s pic of an 0-6-0 lettered Gulf States Steel and numbered 31. It has an older style headlight but more modern valve gears. Does anyone know anything about this GSS engine? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Warren D. Stephens
CofG and TA&G nut
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Ok I just received the class one motorcar book, the third in the series. It is called ¡°Doodlebug Country.¡± It has an L&N roster. Evidently they had a motorcar that served 27 years and as the TAG Brill cars were collectively called the Scooter by locals, this car was known locally as the ¡°Huckety-Buck.¡± There is a pic of this car. NC&StL didn¡¯t keep their two motorcars long. No NC&StL pics. Now here is what I found interesting concerning the CofG. Langley¡¯s ¡°Central of Georgia Railway Album¡± states that the two CofG motorcars - the 10 and the 11 - were both Brill cars. One is indeed a Brill 55, just like the cars TAG operated, but according to ¡°Doodlebug Country¡± the 11 was manufactured by Edwards. I had never looked that close prior to this but it is indeed an Edwards car. If you are a CofG fan and you already have the Langley book you will find that there are three pics of the CofG motorcars and only two in the other book. Duplicate of the Langley book¡¯s pics but missing a side shot of the 10. If you ever run across a book called ¡°Rails Remembered Vol. 1¡± there is a good firsthand account of a trip down the CofG from Chattanooga to Rome, a trip across the Southern from Rome To Gadsden and then TAG back to Chattanooga. Oh how I would have loved to have made that trip. At any rate, if you have more than a passing interest in railroad passenger motorcars, I do recommend these three books.
Warren
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Bill, I can¡¯t remember where I got ¡°Interurbans Without Wires¡± but I do remember getting it used because the former owner was a smoker and it stunk. Fortunately that smell has gone away. Maybe Abe used books or Amazon used? These last two I ordered from Amazon. The shortline doodlebug book from a bookstore selling through Amazon and this last book on class one motorcars that I ordered yesterday was Prime, two day delivery.?
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On Aug 29, 2022, at 11:39 PM, Bill Delmar <bdelmar.list@...> wrote:
? From what I found these books were produced in the 1980's and I assume they are out of print. Where did?you find them? On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 8:11 PM Warren Stephens < wdstephens@...> wrote: Well I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the third volume about class one motorcars. I¡¯ll let y¡¯all know about CofG and NC&StL content.
Warren Warren, ? Thanks for the information.? ? I¡¯ll have to look for those books. ? Steve Johnson ? ? Hey Steve, there is only the slightest bit of info and no pics. It gives the mileage as 10 and that the 1916 official guide states there were two round trips operated by rail car. Sorry. Other Kentucky short lines like the Frankfort & Cincinnati fair a little better.? Warren ? Hi Warren, ? Does that book by chance have anything on the Cadiz RR in Kentucky? ? Thanks, ? Steve Johnson ? ? ? I just wanted to let everyone know about an interesting book that has a very small TAG mention. It is one of a trilogy of rail motorcar books by a man named Edmund Keilty. I have one of the others which is "Interurban Without Wires". This book is more of a history of the various motorcar producers. I don't have the book he did about doodlebugs and motorcars run by class one railroads. At any rate, I now have a copy of "The Shortline Doodlebug" which is all about shortline passenger motorcars used all across the USA. TAG is listed in the section about Alabama and there is a picture of TAG Scooter #500 sitting in the Alton Park yard. There is only a roster for TAG and no other real info there but if you have an interest in shortline passenger motorcars etc. this is a worthy book to add to your collection.?
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From what I found these books were produced in the 1980's and I assume they are out of print. Where did?you find them?
On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 8:11 PM Warren Stephens < wdstephens@...> wrote: Well I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the third volume about class one motorcars. I¡¯ll let y¡¯all know about CofG and NC&StL content.
Warren Warren, ? Thanks for the information.? ? I¡¯ll have to look for those books. ? Steve Johnson ? ? Hey Steve, there is only the slightest bit of info and no pics. It gives the mileage as 10 and that the 1916 official guide states there were two round trips operated by rail car. Sorry. Other Kentucky short lines like the Frankfort & Cincinnati fair a little better.? Warren ? Hi Warren, ? Does that book by chance have anything on the Cadiz RR in Kentucky? ? Thanks, ? Steve Johnson ? ? ? I just wanted to let everyone know about an interesting book that has a very small TAG mention. It is one of a trilogy of rail motorcar books by a man named Edmund Keilty. I have one of the others which is "Interurban Without Wires". This book is more of a history of the various motorcar producers. I don't have the book he did about doodlebugs and motorcars run by class one railroads. At any rate, I now have a copy of "The Shortline Doodlebug" which is all about shortline passenger motorcars used all across the USA. TAG is listed in the section about Alabama and there is a picture of TAG Scooter #500 sitting in the Alton Park yard. There is only a roster for TAG and no other real info there but if you have an interest in shortline passenger motorcars etc. this is a worthy book to add to your collection.?
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Well I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the third volume about class one motorcars. I¡¯ll let y¡¯all know about CofG and NC&StL content.
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On Aug 29, 2022, at 7:15 PM, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote:
? Warren, ? Thanks for the information.? ? I¡¯ll have to look for those books. ? Steve Johnson ? ? ? Hey Steve, there is only the slightest bit of info and no pics. It gives the mileage as 10 and that the 1916 official guide states there were two round trips operated by rail car. Sorry. Other Kentucky short lines like the Frankfort & Cincinnati fair a little better.? Warren
On Aug 28, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote: ? Hi Warren, ? Does that book by chance have anything on the Cadiz RR in Kentucky? ? Thanks, ? Steve Johnson ? ? ? I just wanted to let everyone know about an interesting book that has a very small TAG mention. It is one of a trilogy of rail motorcar books by a man named Edmund Keilty. I have one of the others which is "Interurban Without Wires". This book is more of a history of the various motorcar producers. I don't have the book he did about doodlebugs and motorcars run by class one railroads. At any rate, I now have a copy of "The Shortline Doodlebug" which is all about shortline passenger motorcars used all across the USA. TAG is listed in the section about Alabama and there is a picture of TAG Scooter #500 sitting in the Alton Park yard. There is only a roster for TAG and no other real info there but if you have an interest in shortline passenger motorcars etc. this is a worthy book to add to your collection.?
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Warren, ? Thanks for the information.? ? I¡¯ll have to look for those books. ? Steve Johnson ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Warren Stephens
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2022 6:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tagroute] Book Review? Hey Steve, there is only the slightest bit of info and no pics. It gives the mileage as 10 and that the 1916 official guide states there were two round trips operated by rail car. Sorry. Other Kentucky short lines like the Frankfort & Cincinnati fair a little better.? Warren
On Aug 28, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote: ? Hi Warren, ? Does that book by chance have anything on the Cadiz RR in Kentucky? ? Thanks, ? Steve Johnson ? ? ? I just wanted to let everyone know about an interesting book that has a very small TAG mention. It is one of a trilogy of rail motorcar books by a man named Edmund Keilty. I have one of the others which is "Interurban Without Wires". This book is more of a history of the various motorcar producers. I don't have the book he did about doodlebugs and motorcars run by class one railroads. At any rate, I now have a copy of "The Shortline Doodlebug" which is all about shortline passenger motorcars used all across the USA. TAG is listed in the section about Alabama and there is a picture of TAG Scooter #500 sitting in the Alton Park yard. There is only a roster for TAG and no other real info there but if you have an interest in shortline passenger motorcars etc. this is a worthy book to add to your collection.?
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No sir, just short line stuff. I would imagine that the CofG and the NC&StL cars would be in that third book I don¡¯t have.?
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On Aug 29, 2022, at 9:01 AM, David Payne via groups.io <davidcofga@...> wrote:
?
?
Warren,
Does it mention the CofG motorcars?
David
?
In a message dated 8/28/2022 7:20:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, wdstephens@... writes:
?
Hey Steve, there is only the slightest bit of info and no pics. It gives the mileage as 10 and that the 1916 official guide states there were two round trips operated by rail car. Sorry. Other Kentucky short lines like the Frankfort & Cincinnati fair a little better.?
?
Warren
?
On Aug 28, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote:
?
Hi Warren,
?
Does that book by chance have anything on the Cadiz RR in Kentucky?
?
Thanks,
?
Steve Johnson
?
?
?
I just wanted to let everyone know about an interesting book that has a very small TAG mention. It is one of a trilogy of rail motorcar books by a man named Edmund Keilty. I have one of the others which is "Interurban Without Wires". This book is more of a history of the various motorcar producers. I don't have the book he did about doodlebugs and motorcars run by class one railroads. At any rate, I now have a copy of "The Shortline Doodlebug" which is all about shortline passenger motorcars used all across the USA. TAG is listed in the section about Alabama and there is a picture of TAG Scooter #500 sitting in the Alton Park yard. There is only a roster for TAG and no other real info there but if you have an interest in shortline passenger motorcars etc. this is a worthy book to add to your collection.?
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?
Warren,
Does it mention the CofG motorcars?
David
?
In a message dated 8/28/2022 7:20:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, wdstephens@... writes:
?
Hey Steve, there is only the slightest bit of info and no pics. It gives the mileage as 10 and that the 1916 official guide states there were two round trips operated by rail car. Sorry. Other Kentucky short lines like the Frankfort & Cincinnati fair a little better.?
?
Warren
?
On Aug 28, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote:
?
Hi Warren,
?
Does that book by chance have anything on the Cadiz RR in Kentucky?
?
Thanks,
?
Steve Johnson
?
?
?
I just wanted to let everyone know about an interesting book that has a very small TAG mention. It is one of a trilogy of rail motorcar books by a man named Edmund Keilty. I have one of the others which is "Interurban Without Wires". This book is more of a history of the various motorcar producers. I don't have the book he did about doodlebugs and motorcars run by class one railroads. At any rate, I now have a copy of "The Shortline Doodlebug" which is all about shortline passenger motorcars used all across the USA. TAG is listed in the section about Alabama and there is a picture of TAG Scooter #500 sitting in the Alton Park yard. There is only a roster for TAG and no other real info there but if you have an interest in shortline passenger motorcars etc. this is a worthy book to add to your collection.?
|
Hey Steve, there is only the slightest bit of info and no pics. It gives the mileage as 10 and that the 1916 official guide states there were two round trips operated by rail car. Sorry. Other Kentucky short lines like the Frankfort & Cincinnati fair a little better.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 28, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Steven D Johnson <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote:
? Hi Warren, ? Does that book by chance have anything on the Cadiz RR in Kentucky? ? Thanks, ? Steve Johnson ? ? ? I just wanted to let everyone know about an interesting book that has a very small TAG mention. It is one of a trilogy of rail motorcar books by a man named Edmund Keilty. I have one of the others which is "Interurban Without Wires". This book is more of a history of the various motorcar producers. I don't have the book he did about doodlebugs and motorcars run by class one railroads. At any rate, I now have a copy of "The Shortline Doodlebug" which is all about shortline passenger motorcars used all across the USA. TAG is listed in the section about Alabama and there is a picture of TAG Scooter #500 sitting in the Alton Park yard. There is only a roster for TAG and no other real info there but if you have an interest in shortline passenger motorcars etc. this is a worthy book to add to your collection.?
|
Hi Warren, ? Does that book by chance have anything on the Cadiz RR in Kentucky? ? Thanks, ? Steve Johnson ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Warren Stephens
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2022 12:14 PM
To: TA&G (io)
Subject: [tagroute] Book Review? I just wanted to let everyone know about an interesting book that has a very small TAG mention. It is one of a trilogy of rail motorcar books by a man named Edmund Keilty. I have one of the others which is "Interurban Without Wires". This book is more of a history of the various motorcar producers. I don't have the book he did about doodlebugs and motorcars run by class one railroads. At any rate, I now have a copy of "The Shortline Doodlebug" which is all about shortline passenger motorcars used all across the USA. TAG is listed in the section about Alabama and there is a picture of TAG Scooter #500 sitting in the Alton Park yard. There is only a roster for TAG and no other real info there but if you have an interest in shortline passenger motorcars etc. this is a worthy book to add to your collection.?
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I thought it would be something of that sort. Thank you for the Think Time.
On 08/27/2022 7:26 PM Warren Stephens <wdstephens@...> wrote:
Hey Arnold, I note a few certainties here. This order is #1 of the day, issued just after midnight. It is addressed to train #51 and "extras". Train 51 was the daily southbound. If punctual, #51 departed Alton Park at 10am or roughly 10 hours after this order was issued? If 52 was punctual, it arrived from Gadsden at Alton Park at around 5am or five hours after this order was issued. As 52 was not addressed in this order, I have to wonder if it was allowed to come north between midnight and 5am or was there an order addressed to it that we don't know about? It has to be intense track work somewhere just south of Dickey and this order was intended to protect that work. I can think of no other reason. In the diesel era, there were few true extras. An extra was generally the result of a scheduled train having to be annulled. My guess is that this was a caveat tossed in in case 51 was held up so long it was annulled.? ?
Warren
On Saturday, August 27, 2022 at 05:33:36 PM EDT, arnoldeaves <aseaves@...> wrote:
Warren, Thanks for sharing this and the other finds.? The day before this train order was issued I celebrated my 10th birthday.? I assume the Dickey referred to site of the old clay pipe works just inside the Georgia border.? At that time there would have been no grade crossings for a good distance so this would have been a good place to park a freight train.? Any speculation as to why such an order went out?
Arnold Eaves
On 08/27/2022 12:01 PM Warren Stephens <wdstephens@...> wrote:
My desk is like the La Brea tar pits, every once in a while something will float back to the surface I had forgot about. I actually don't remember acquiring this particular TAG train order. It was in a manila folder with about a half dozen other train orders from Midwestern railroads. At any rate, I have other TAG and CofG train orders that I do indeed remember obtaining. But for the life of me I don't remember where I got this one.
Warren
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Hey Arnold, I note a few certainties here. This order is #1 of the day, issued just after midnight. It is addressed to train #51 and "extras". Train 51 was the daily southbound. If punctual, #51 departed Alton Park at 10am or roughly 10 hours after this order was issued? If 52 was punctual, it arrived from Gadsden at Alton Park at around 5am or five hours after this order was issued. As 52 was not addressed in this order, I have to wonder if it was allowed to come north between midnight and 5am or was there an order addressed to it that we don't know about? It has to be intense track work somewhere just south of Dickey and this order was intended to protect that work. I can think of no other reason. In the diesel era, there were few true extras. An extra was generally the result of a scheduled train having to be annulled. My guess is that this was a caveat tossed in in case 51 was held up so long it was annulled.? ?
Warren
On Saturday, August 27, 2022 at 05:33:36 PM EDT, arnoldeaves <aseaves@...> wrote:
Warren, Thanks for sharing this and the other finds.? The day before this train order was issued I celebrated my 10th birthday.? I assume the Dickey referred to site of the old clay pipe works just inside the Georgia border.? At that time there would have been no grade crossings for a good distance so this would have been a good place to park a freight train.? Any speculation as to why such an order went out?
Arnold Eaves
On 08/27/2022 12:01 PM Warren Stephens <wdstephens@...> wrote:
My desk is like the La Brea tar pits, every once in a while something will float back to the surface I had forgot about. I actually don't remember acquiring this particular TAG train order. It was in a manila folder with about a half dozen other train orders from Midwestern railroads. At any rate, I have other TAG and CofG train orders that I do indeed remember obtaining. But for the life of me I don't remember where I got this one.
Warren
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Warren, Thanks for sharing this and the other finds.? The day before this train order was issued I celebrated my 10th birthday.? I assume the Dickey referred to site of the old clay pipe works just inside the Georgia border.? At that time there would have been no grade crossings for a good distance so this would have been a good place to park a freight train.? Any speculation as to why such an order went out?
Arnold Eaves
On 08/27/2022 12:01 PM Warren Stephens <wdstephens@...> wrote:
My desk is like the La Brea tar pits, every once in a while something will float back to the surface I had forgot about. I actually don't remember acquiring this particular TAG train order. It was in a manila folder with about a half dozen other train orders from Midwestern railroads. At any rate, I have other TAG and CofG train orders that I do indeed remember obtaining. But for the life of me I don't remember where I got this one.
Warren
|
I just wanted to let everyone know about an interesting book that has a very small TAG mention. It is one of a trilogy of rail motorcar books by a man named Edmund Keilty. I have one of the others which is "Interurban Without Wires". This book is more of a history of the various motorcar producers. I don't have the book he did about doodlebugs and motorcars run by class one railroads. At any rate, I now have a copy of "The Shortline Doodlebug" which is all about shortline passenger motorcars used all across the USA. TAG is listed in the section about Alabama and there is a picture of TAG Scooter #500 sitting in the Alton Park yard. There is only a roster for TAG and no other real info there but if you have an interest in shortline passenger motorcars etc. this is a worthy book to add to your collection.?
Warren
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Original EMD paintshop drawing for TAG
Some time back I came across the original Electromotive Division concept/paintshop drawings for TAG's original GP7 order. On the back it is stamped "this drawing is in the process of being changed" and there is a March 23rd 1951 date stamp. I have copies of the drawings for the GP18 #50 and the GP38 #80 but had never seen a drawing for the three GP7s. It looked to me like the drawing for the 50 was simply the GP7 drawing repurposed to show the Dave Hedges monogram. Remember the GP7 and the GP18 were similar whereas the GP38 was a good bit different. Note the original design for the herald. I for one am glad they went back to the drawing-board. The drawing is far too big for my scanner so I was unable to scan anything else. But in addition to the arrowhead nose herald, another notable difference was the lack of any herald on the underside of the cab window. In the original there is a large road number instead. On the drawing it is 700. I have attached a drawing of the 80. It has been "blueprint reversed" at some point and this has caused issues. I have good blueprint copies of TAG 50 and 80 I just can't scan them. At any rate, compare the nose of both and be glad they made those changes.
Warren? ?
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Warren Stephens
