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Hello again. Forgot to mention that this 9'2" by 8'6" layout of mine (Kelowna Industrial District, or "KID" for short) will be in HO with the primary focus on switching. Thought about naming it "Pacific Mining & Smelting" but my significant other put the kibosh to that (lol). I am located just outside of Edmonton,AB (St. Albert) and work as a loco engineer for CN. I am sure glad i found this group, as I feel it will be tailored to my needs quite nicely. In my recent post, I had made mention to the Edmonton Model Railroad Association. More info about the EMRA can be found at www.infoharvest.ab.ca/emra/emra.html, along with other Edmonton-area modelling sites. Looking forward to future correspondence on this list. Ken King -- hoggerken 8-)

Just A thought on this... I did a design a couple of years ago based on the Illinois Terminal in Springfield Illinois. The idea was to model big trains (up to 3 SD39's) but to get away with not modelling the whole 70 car train behind them. The concept involved only modelling one yard ladder, plus the loco facilities. The yard tracks themselves are the staging, and become hidden a couple of feet back from the ladder (don't know if this will translate to your prototype yard or not, if it has a road bridge across it that's a possibility.) So trains arrive from the staging (unmodelled end of the yard) & appear in the scenic section running up to the end of a yard track on the end of their "train" (meant to be 70+ cars, in actual fact more like 5 to 10, as most of the train is hidden.) The loco's will cut off from their train and move for servicing, a switcher moves in and breaks the train down. The switcher builds outgoing trains by putting cars in an assigned track, and adding a caboose on the visible end. The Road loco's can now move out of the engine facility, and down to the other end of the yard to depart (they move into staging) The train now departs, you can either do this with a loco in staging or by hand, as the front of the train is "off set". (hope that made sense!) This may not be what you are looking for at all, but there are lots of ways of looking at a specific location. Martyn :-)

Hello All -- Just wanted to let you know of another list on Yahoo Groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/model_railroading_just_for_fun This list is intended for people who are building model railroads "just for fun" and who are not getting the information they are looking for in the more "serious" model railroading discussion lists. The list has just started up so there's not much there yet, but I am hoping that it is something we can make grow. I have the feeling that there may be a lot of people out there who are put off or intimidated by the more serious approach seen on some of the other popular hobby mailing lists. Someone on another of my lists commented on the impression that his sort of modelling -- layouts designed for kids -- is not regarded as "real model railroading" by the "experts" and professional modellers on the big lists. Well, I think what he's doing is real model railroading, and I think there should be a forum for it. Small Layout Design will carry on as I am also interested in "serious" modelling, but I also hope people will check out and contribute to Model Railroading Just For Fun. Thanks -- Jon Piasecki jonp@...

Just found this group a couple days ago, I changed email addresses due to switching internet providers and Yahoo wiped all my groups. Found this one in the desperate search to relocated all the ones I was on. I'm modeling in N, and have been playing around with different plans. I'm hoping to 'break ground' here in the next couple weeks. The space I got can best be described as a 'b'. The fat part is 3.5' by 6' with a 1.5' x 3' extension running along the wall. So it's roughly 9' x 3.5'. The track plan I'm going with is, I hope, a nice mix of continous running with a little switching district inside the bigger section. I'm really into operations, but space is tight and I'd like the chance to run the trains more than a few feet so the continuos track arrangement. This also allows me to 'railfan' my layout. The best part of all this is, I'll be moving in 8 months as I graduate college and get me a real home (or is that get my wife a real home?) Funny story there, she actually asked me if I would be OK with buying a house with a full basement and putting the layout down there. I of course responded, no! I wanted a tiny spare bedroom that has to accomidate guests too. <grin> Well before I write yet another book-sized post I'll end this. Hopefully I'll get pics going here when I start. Jason McClanahn Oh, era is modern-day CSX, lots of run-through intermodal and coal drag traffic. (Although I'm drooling over those SD90's Kato's about to release.)

Hi All, Just today I found this mailing list by accident and signed up immediately. (Well, I'm already member of a lot of other modelrailway related Yahoo groups...) Anyhow, my name is Reinoud Kaasschieter, I'm Dutch and live in Holland (Europe). Lately, I didn't have much time building a layout: I've got two small childern and have still a lot to do around the house. But I did find time to learn HTML/XHTML professionnaly and in due course I made my homepages. These homepages foucus mainly on, guess what, small layout design! Please take a look at the result on http://www.kaasschieter.net/railway. I didn't recieve much comments but maybe I didn't target the right audience. So please tell me what you think about it. Currently, I've got 300x60 cm (about 10x2 feet) at my disposal for my H0 railway. I'd like to model a Swiss style industrial railway(*). Well, most industrial railways around the world look the same so if you've got some bright ideas... Best regards, Reinoud Kaasschieter mailto:reinoud.kaasschieter@... (*) Swiss style industrial railways seem to have a lot of turntables for wagons.

I'd like to build a small HO shelf-type industrial switching layout. My interest is in UP diesel-era operation, and I would like to be able to operate rolling stock ranging from 40' boxcars to 89' flatcars and motive power from S2's to AS616's and SD7's. The available space is quite limited. I can utilize an inverted L- shaped space, approximately 18" wide, 72" along the right leg and an additional 36" along the left leg. The right leg could accommodate a temporary extension for staging purposes about 48" long. I am looking for recommended designs and usable concepts. Thanks for any assistance.:-) David Garon Toronto, Canada

Hello All -- If you're not subscribed to Layout Construction and are interested in the plywood-vs-lumber debate, there's a thread developing on warped plywood that you might want to check out. The thread starts here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LayoutConstruction/message/654 Thanks -- Jon Piasecki jonp@... Visit the Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo Railway Historical Society Website at http://www.thbrailway.com Visit the Small Layout Design Discussion Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/small-layout-design Visit the Model Railroading Makes Me Grumpy Discussion Group at this really long URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Model_Railroading_Makes_Me_Grumpy

Y'all, I have just created a file in the group files area containing my layout's track plan and a few photo's I took of it in it's 'unfinished' state. If you'd like to take a look just go to 'files' then to 'Donovan's 6'x10' layout' and you should be able to take a quick peak. The layout's spec's are: Size: 6'4"x10'4" Scale: HO Era: Modern Locale: Western Oregon branch line Control: Currently DC - soon to be DCC Prototype: BNSF/SP Backdrop: Custom painted lynolium floor (back side) Benchwork: Mostly plywood on 1"x2" framing hung on 'IKEA' brackets Project began in October 2000 Hope y'all enjoy. Donovan in Dallas

Hi y'all, I am a new member to this list - it was recomended to me by a felow member of another model railroad list. Anyway, I currently have a 10'4"x6'4" "shelf" layout depicting the BN/BNSF branches in Oregon. I am quite interested in prototype operations and I believe in helping others out. This is not my first layout, but all of them have been under the 25 square foot mark - with many others designed but never built. I have modeled in N and HO, but I find that for a very small layout the details you can get from HO are better sooted than N. N-scales real advantage (in my opinion) is 'big' scenes and long trains - it's less noticeable how much or little detail is showing that way. Anyway, since I have much experience with "small" layouts, I expect to be posting quite often. Until then, keep 'em on the tracks. Donovan in Dallas

...some miscellaneous thoughts. Hello Everyone -- Just want to say welcome to the new members -- Small Layout Design is up to 93 members now. I think we gained something like 10 people in the last week or so. Thanks to everyone who's signed on -- please be patient as we all work to get this list moving. Some Miscellaneous Thoughts and Stuff: _____________________________________ Alternative Hobby Mailing List Sorry there has not been a lot of new Small Layout content from me lately -- I've been busy with work and, I have to admit it, I've also been busy with blowing off hobby steam in another list I "own": Model Railroading Makes Me Grumpy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Model_Railroading_Makes_Me_Grumpy Be warned: Grumpy is not for everyone -- there's politics and language and religion and sacred hobby cow bashing, so be warned if you head over there. There's also stuff that is, I hope, good for a laugh. _____________________________________ 1/2" Plywood Report This may not be a big deal to anyone, but it's something that I found interesting. I bought some wood last summer for a project that I have not yet gotten around to. Like a good hobbyist who's deadly serious about building the ultimate lifetime layout, I left the wood in the basement to "season" (OK, that's my "serious hobbyist" explanation -- the truth is that the stuff has sat down there "seasoning" while other real-world projects, like work, took precedence). At about the same time, I also bought the more "proper" (and more expensive) 3/4" material that's often recommended in the hobby press for things like domino construction. Anyway -- I was surprised to find last night that the 1/2" good-one- side plywood sheets -- two 2-foot by 4-foot panels -- have all taken on a distinct bow in their long dimension. The 3/4" material is still straight and does not appear to have changed any over the same time. I would describe our basement conditions as better than average: dry, well heated, with humidity well regulated by an air conditioner in summer and a humidifier in winter. I'm really quite surprised by this -- the 1/2" material seemed quite sturdy to me. I figure I can still straighten it out with some bracing and such, but I don't think I would consider it for domino- type or flat table construction. Just thought I would share this with you all. Has anyone else had problems with 1/2" plywood material warping and bowing over time? _____________________________________ Interesting Layout Room Solution Picked up the June 2001 Model Railroader the other day. The Small Layout Contest 3rd Place article appears in this issue. What I find most interesting about this article and layout is the "room" the modeller built for his layout. He's assembled an 8- foot by 12-foot "room" in his two-car (or possibly larger) garage using 3/8" plywood sheets and 2-by lumber. The room has its own lighting and air conditioning. The rest of the garage is used as a garage and wood shop. I don't believe the article mentions how the room is "roofed", but my guess is that some sort of drop-ceiling is used. This approach sounds rather interesting. I'd be curious to compare the costs of this approach with that of, say, finishing a garage space with drywall. Like the MR author, the layout I'm planning will be sharing space with a small woodworking shop/sawdust factory. Dust on the layout will obviously be a problem, so I'm going to have to design some sort of dust protection into the layout. I'm thinking of plastic (lexan or acrylic) sheets that are magnetically secured to the layout (completely plugging the space between fascia and valence) to close off the layout when the shop is in use. And to be really high tech about it, I'm also thinking of using a small fan (say, a 12 V computer ventilation fan or two) to pump air into the "closed" layout to maintain a positive pressure in the layout space to keep out dust. Of course, the fan will have to have its intake filtered and located in another room so that it does not draw dust into the layout. Anyone else solved the problem of a layout sharing space with another dusty hobby? _____________________________________ Have a Small Layout? To help support this discussion group, I'd like to put together a website that serves as a resource for small layout owners and designers. We have the space and some really limited stuff up now at -- http://www.bolditalicpublications.com/sld -- but I'd like to get more there. Do you have your small layout described on a website? Send me your URL and I'll build a Links page on the SLD site. Do you have a small layout but no way to get pictures and text up on the web? Contact me at -- small-layout-design-owner@... -- and we'll discuss ways to get your material on the SLD website. Hope to hear from you! Thanks -- Jon Piasecki jonp@... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visit the Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo Railway Historical Society Website at http://www.thbrailway.com Visit the Small Layout Design discussion group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/small-layout-design Vent some steam at Model Railroading Makes Me Grumpy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Model_Railroading_Makes_Me_Grumpy - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Howdy Y'all -- Just a note to let everyone know the list is still alive. I'm working on some small layout ideas and hope to have some sketches put together soon for sharing. I'm working on trying to fit a prototype industry as illustrated on a fire insurance map into a shelf-type layout. There's a thread on LDSIG ( at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ldsig ) starting about 4-by-8 and domino style layouts -- I think there's a place for both, depending on one's requirements. It will be interesting to see what that group has to say on the issue. Thanks -- Jon jonp@... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visit the Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo Railway Historical Society Website at http://www.thbrailway.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visit the Small Layout Design Discussion Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/small-layout-design - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visit the Model Railroading Makes Me Grumpy Discussion Group at this really long URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Model_Railroading_Makes_Me_Grumpy - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

HI DALE!! Id be happy to help..where are you?? Ill drop by and show you how to make all the mistakes!! As has been said already..just jump in and give it try.. might come naturally.. may not,, but dont get discouraged..just try again!!! It WILL be fun.. DAVE Visit iWon today for a chance to win $25 Million! Click here - http://www.iwon.com

Hello everyone. I am Dale Bowman and glad to be aboard. I have been out of MRRing for about 15 years and boy have things changed. I have had a 14 X 4 foot board up for about a year and still haven't decided on my layout yet. I know what I want in it but not how to start. If anyone would be interested in helping me get started, just let meknow. Anyway, thanks for letting be a member and I'll see you around.

Is that a double slip in the centre of the layout, Jack? My eyesight's not good enough for a 12" screen!

Please ignore my plea for "How to....." I just found it in another section and it's posted. Thanks anyway

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the small-layout-design group. File : /Boxstreet.jpg Uploaded by : chacmool@... Description : Box Street Yard HO You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/small-layout-design/files/Boxstreet.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, chacmool@...

Question..How small is a "small" layout for the purpose of this forum??? And thanks for the railroad builders link!!! DAVE Visit iWon today for a chance to win $25 Million! Click here - http://www.iwon.com

Hey all, Below is a site I came across which contains _old_ RR maps and also links to other mapping sites. Check it out. Might be of help to some in their layout designing. http://modelrailroad.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cprr.org%2FMuseum%2FMaps%2F Paul Kossart - Peru, Illinois, USA BRHS, TP&WHS, La Salle & Bureau County Model Railroad Club Proto-Freelancing The CB&Q Illiniwek River Branch in HO in the 1960's... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Serving Agriculture and Industry in the Illiniwek River Valley since 1904." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LOL Dan.. If we get a chance we can discuss it with the wife!!!LOL! As far as the reason for my question.. I am looking at building a layout room supported by a garage.. not sure of the dimensions untill town gives approval..but hoping for the range of 24X32 or so.. Maybe 24X24 smallest??? Wanting the staircase outside to save a few square feet.. but being in Maine I will build in an "air lock"!!! I have been "planning" the layout for about 30 years.. but just have some "i want to includes" in mind.. HO scale..New england area, city area..good sized yard, double track -entire length so I can just let two trains run as I play, work switch whatever/but double track does NOT have be parralell to each other! A loads in-emptys out seems a good idea... So, is anyone interested in discussing the development of this?? of course you are all invited to help build the supporting structure,(garage) and the layout!!!LOL! Visit iWon today for a chance to win $25 Million! Click here - http://www.iwon.com

I've uploaded two track plans to the file area. One is called "Toy- Factory", which is a switching layout in H-O scale. The dimensions are 9 inches wide by 52 inches long, including transverser. The second is labelled "Ivar-A-6" and an extension of the toy factory layout. Both layouts were planned for an "Ivar" shelving unit from IKEA. The IVAR is modular so there can be quite a lot of variation. My particular shelving unit is L-shaped. "Ivar-A-6" is 72 inches long by 40 inches, with a 9 inch depth except in the corner which is "cut" by the Ivar, allowing maximum usage. The transverser for the toy factory is 17 inches, but I'm making the one for the Ivar at 19 inches. I've gotten as far as building the baseboard (benchwork) and tranverser for toy factory, but no track down. I'm using sheet cork to simplify things. I've cut the wood for the next section of baseboard for Ivar, but that's it. The curve in Ivar is tight, but I may be able to adjust that once I get to track laying. I used Atlas' Right Track software to plan it using H-O code 100 track and Number 4 switches. I've already got two variations on this and may modify it further. Hope this is helpful or thought provoking for someone. Maurice Grimes Kingston, PA, USA