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I am planning to build a 2' x 8' shelf layout and wondering about the pros/cons of building it all in one piece or dividing it into 2 sections.? I am going to be building the layout and then transporting it 7 miles after completion.? I have a Toyota Sienna minivan and can probably get the whole 8' layout in if I laid it on it's side and have one end go up between the 2 front seats with the center console folded down.? There wouldn't be much room for scenery or structures at that end but maybe I could add those after it is transported.??
The other option I am thinking of is build it in separate 2' x 4' sections that can be taken apart and reassembled once it is transported.? This will be my first layout so have a lot to learn.? Wanted to post here to see which way would make sense.? Thanks!
Dave
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My experience tells me that it should?be built in 2 sections. I wish I had done so from the beginning.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 6:02 AM Dave Adams < adamsdp@...> wrote: I am planning to build a 2' x 8' shelf layout and wondering about the pros/cons of building it all in one piece or dividing it into 2 sections.? I am going to be building the layout and then transporting it 7 miles after completion.? I have a Toyota Sienna minivan and can probably get the whole 8' layout in if I laid it on it's side and have one end go up between the 2 front seats with the center console folded down.? There wouldn't be much room for scenery or structures at that end but maybe I could add those after it is transported.??
The other option I am thinking of is build it in separate 2' x 4' sections that can be taken apart and reassembled once it is transported.? This will be my first layout so have a lot to learn.? Wanted to post here to see which way would make sense.? Thanks!
Dave
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Easier to manage 2 4' units. You can use bolts rather than clamps to join and dowels for easy alignment.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 9:53 AM, jim <filmsnotdead@...> wrote: My experience tells me that it should?be built in 2 sections. I wish I had done so from the beginning. On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 6:02 AM Dave Adams < adamsdp@...> wrote: I am planning to build a 2' x 8' shelf layout and wondering about the pros/cons of building it all in one piece or dividing it into 2 sections.? I am going to be building the layout and then transporting it 7 miles after completion.? I have a Toyota Sienna minivan and can probably get the whole 8' layout in if I laid it on it's side and have one end go up between the 2 front seats with the center console folded down.? There wouldn't be much room for scenery or structures at that end but maybe I could add those after it is transported.??
The other option I am thinking of is build it in separate 2' x 4' sections that can be taken apart and reassembled once it is transported.? This will be my first layout so have a lot to learn.? Wanted to post here to see which way would make sense.? Thanks!
Dave
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Dave,
I built a Timesaver 1-1/2 feet by 8 feet while in Saudi Arabia.? Given our back-&-forth work lives, we figure it has travelled close to 34,000 miles.
It is box girder with thin but high-quality plywood.
It has never failed to work after every move.? Given its lightness, it has been easy to move.
I'll vote one 2x8!
Bill Jolitz
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Hi Dave, ? From experience I recommend building the layout in 2 4’ sections.? You won’t always have that minivan.? And the size of layout you want to carry/move gets smaller as you get older. ? My personal limit now is nothing more than 6’. ? If you’re concerned about how to handle the jointing of the two sections, I highly recommend Baseboard Alignment Dowels from DCC Concepts.? I’ve used them on two layouts so far and are very pleased with the results.? Here is a link for the basic kit, additional dowels are sold separately… ?
? Thanks, Damin. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave Adams
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [small-layout-design] 2' x 8' Shelf layout - two sections or one? ? I am planning to build a 2' x 8' shelf layout and wondering about the pros/cons of building it all in one piece or dividing it into 2 sections.? I am going to be building the layout and then transporting it 7 miles after completion.? I have a Toyota Sienna minivan and can probably get the whole 8' layout in if I laid it on it's side and have one end go up between the 2 front seats with the center console folded down.? There wouldn't be much room for scenery or structures at that end but maybe I could add those after it is transported.??
The other option I am thinking of is build it in separate 2' x 4' sections that can be taken apart and reassembled once it is transported.? This will be my first layout so have a lot to learn.? Wanted to post here to see which way would make sense.? Thanks!
Dave
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I'm considering 2- 2x4 modules. Each one has a backdrop wall on one short and one long side. When separated it serves as a support? to make it into a stacked box with all the structures still on the layout. The backdrops could be 8- 12 inches high.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Dave Adams <adamsdp@...> Date: 9/15/20 09:02 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [small-layout-design] 2' x 8' Shelf layout - two sections or one?
I am planning to build a 2' x 8' shelf layout and wondering about the pros/cons of building it all in one piece or dividing it into 2 sections.? I am going to be building the layout and then transporting it 7 miles after completion.? I have a Toyota Sienna minivan and can probably get the whole 8' layout in if I laid it on it's side and have one end go up between the 2 front seats with the center console folded down.? There wouldn't be much room for scenery or structures at that end but maybe I could add those after it is transported.?? The other option I am thinking of is build it in separate 2' x 4' sections that can be taken apart and reassembled once it is transported.? This will be my first layout so have a lot to learn.? Wanted to post here to see which way would make sense.? Thanks! Dave
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Dave, I suggest dividing into sections. I have (a) moved 9 times in the past forty years, and (b) taken layouts or portions of layouts to many NMRA, NNGC and local train shows over the same period of time. One of my sectional layouts which went to many train shows (Stove Pipe Wells – photo below) was the subject of feature articles in the magazines: Model Railroader, December 2006 and N Scale, May-June 2007. The advantages of smaller sections are: - Easier to move by oneself, especially as you grow older (A 24” x 48” size section will fit on the back seat of most sedans – Jim Fitzgerald’s reasoning in specifying this size for NTRAK modules))
- Ability to move the section to a location/position where you can easily work on it
- Provides a more definable and achievable “scope of work” and provides that invaluable “reinforcement” of accomplishment
- Less subject to damage during transport
- Ability to isolate electrical issues (one of my persistent bug-a-boos)
- Ability to get some operations going on completed sections before completing the entire layout (not so much an issue with only two sections)
- Ability to plan for and incorporate features allowing future sections to be added
The disadvantages are: - Alignment of sections on assembly (use of patternmaker’s or furniture dowels can minimize this difficulty)
- Disguising joints between sections (they are invisible on the Stove Pipe Wells layout)
I am currently building a new sectional layout based on the Pacific Coast Railway of the central California coast (circa 1928) and the construction of this layout is the subject of a series of articles in N Scale magazine; Part 10 of that series has just gone to the printer. One thing I have done on this current layout is to support the entire layout on an open grid “shelf” supported by 21” steel shelf angles on the walls of the room I have it in. All the stringers on the shelf are level and aligned, so I don’t have to deal with separate legs on the layout sections. The sections just plop on the shelf and slide over to the next section to which they are bolted with a pair of bolts. The sections are framed with 1 x 2 poplar with a 3/16” ply top so very light. If taken to a train show, they can be set up on the typical convention/trade show folding table. Molex plugs attach each section to the next electrically. Which ever way you go – HAVE FUN. And please share your progress with this group. Tom K. 
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Adams Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 2:50 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [small-layout-design] 2' x 8' Shelf layout - two sections or one? ? I am planning to build a 2' x 8' shelf layout and wondering about the pros/cons of building it all in one piece or dividing it into 2 sections.? I am going to be building the layout and then transporting it 7 miles after completion.? I have a Toyota Sienna minivan and can probably get the whole 8' layout in if I laid it on it's side and have one end go up between the 2 front seats with the center console folded down.? There wouldn't be much room for scenery or structures at that end but maybe I could add those after it is transported.??
The other option I am thinking of is build it in separate 2' x 4' sections that can be taken apart and reassembled once it is transported.? This will be my first layout so have a lot to learn.? Wanted to post here to see which way would make sense.? Thanks!
Dave
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Thanks for all the helpful replies. I should have mentioned that I am most likely going to move it one time from where I am building it at to my home. As an aside I'm not sure how easy it is to get a 2 by 8 layout the stairs into a bedroom.? A lot of good points for building in two different sections.? I will check out the links to the joining methods and appreciate all the information, photos and help!
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Dave, I have uploaded an article to a folder titled “Dowl Pins” in the “Files” section of this group which shows the use of Freeman patternmaker dowl pins and sockets to align modules. It includes the manufacturer’s information. The elaborate jigs and rigorous efforts to duplicate dowel positions and spacing from one module to another described in the article are not necessary for a one-owner sectional layout, but these are very good dowels and sockets for sectional layouts. My friends in the UK use a different dowel and socket intended for furniture; I will try and find that info and upload it to the same folder. As an alternative, I have pressed in brass tube in the end frame of some of my layout sections, and fitted the mating section with a bit of brass rod I turned to the right diameter. Works. For my current layout, I forego dowels, just visually align everything as I tighten the bolts. Tom K. ? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Adams Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 12:22 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [small-layout-design] 2' x 8' Shelf layout - two sections or one? ? Thanks for all the helpful replies. I should have mentioned that I am most likely going to move it one time from where I am building it at to my home. As an aside I'm not sure how easy it is to get a 2 by 8 layout the stairs into a bedroom.? A lot of good points for building in two different sections.? I will check out the links to the joining methods and appreciate all the information, photos and help!
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If you pair up the endpapers of your two section and bore for T-nuts. Insert and anchor the nuts then bore out the threads of one so a bolt will pass through and screw into the other. The bored T-nut will act as a sleeve protecting the wood end plate.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 7:46 PM, Thomas Knapp <thomasknapp@...> wrote: Dave, I have uploaded an article to a folder titled “Dowl Pins” in the “Files” section of this group which shows the use of Freeman patternmaker dowl pins and sockets to align modules. It includes the manufacturer’s information. The elaborate jigs and rigorous efforts to duplicate dowel positions and spacing from one module to another described in the article are not necessary for a one-owner sectional layout, but these are very good dowels and sockets for sectional layouts. My friends in the UK use a different dowel and socket intended for furniture; I will try and find that info and upload it to the same folder. As an alternative, I have pressed in brass tube in the end frame of some of my layout sections, and fitted the mating section with a bit of brass rod I turned to the right diameter. Works. For my current layout, I forego dowels, just visually align everything as I tighten the bolts. Tom K. ? ? ? Thanks for all the helpful replies. I should have mentioned that I am most likely going to move it one time from where I am building it at to my home. As an aside I'm not sure how easy it is to get a 2 by 8 layout the stairs into a bedroom.? A lot of good points for building in two different sections.? I will check out the links to the joining methods and appreciate all the information, photos and help!
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Go with two sections but design your layout first. You may end up with? a 4' 6" and a 3' 6" board or similar depending on where your switches are located. It's far better to adjust the boards to suit the track plan rather than the other way around.
One of mine was 1 x 5' with 2 x 18"end modules. All of the switches were on the center 5' board which made the wiring easy.
Ken
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On 15/09/2020 10:50 am, Dave Adams wrote: I am planning to build a 2' x 8' shelf layout and wondering about the pros/cons of building it all in one piece or dividing it into 2 sections.? I am going to be building the layout and then transporting it 7 miles after completion.? I have a Toyota Sienna minivan and can probably get the whole 8' layout in if I laid it on it's side and have one end go up between the 2 front seats with the center console folded down.? There wouldn't be much room for scenery or structures at that end but maybe I could add those after it is transported.
The other option I am thinking of is build it in separate 2' x 4' sections that can be taken apart and reassembled once it is transported.? This will be my first layout so have a lot to learn.? Wanted to post here to see which way would make sense. Thanks!
Dave
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Dave,
It would certainly be much easier to build your layout in two sections, both from a portability standpoint and from a don't-strain-your-back-from-lifting standpoint. Strictly speaking, you do not have to make both pieces exactly the same 2' x 4' size.? Consider your track plan.? Where would be the best place to break the layout?? Slavishly sticking to two same size pieces might limit your track planning - you don't want the section break to be under a turnout or a turntable or in the middle of a complex track arrangement.? Consider making your sections 2' x 5' and 2' x 3', for example.? Unless you plan to use this layout as part of a modular setup where the length of each module must be according to a specific modular standard, you could make your sections fit your track plan.? Maybe something like 2' x 3' 6" and 2' x 4' 6" sections would work better for your track plan?
V/r,
Casey Sterbenz
O Scale Kings #8
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Lots of comments, a couple from a modular modeler
8 feet is hard to handle, I have 6 foot modules and they are as big as I would go. Turning on the side will wreak havoc.? Go with?two 4 foot modules (same size for moving in a rack).?I would prefer both modules the same length?as I build a frame?to stack them.? I have done this?for two 4 foot modules?and the stack fits into an SUV and is not so wide then.? I used some scrap 1x3 to make a frame with screw holes to match the alignment holes.? Bolt them on and you can move the two modules as a four foot package.
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When you break the module, you have to get the tracks right so they align. We use table pins?to align the two modules?pieces?for connections within?a specific module set.? ?This is the interface between the two 6 foot modules for the?Moss Landing 12' module.
The pins align?the?boxes the?same?every time so the tracks align perfectly.
Also, the?rails must be well secured. This photo?shows ho each track goes from flex track glued to homabed on foam to wood with a Gapmaster glued down and the track soldered to the Gapmaster. This assures alignment and that the rails won't cup if the foam?shrinks slightly over time.
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Finally, make up two thin plywood plates to bolt onto the ends where the?exposed rails are during transport?so you do not snag them.
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? Quoting "I built a Timesaver 1-1/2 feet by 8 feet while in Saudi Arabia."
Where were you in Saudi Arabia?? I built my present German-outline N gauge layout while with BAe Systems at Tabuk, between 2001 and 2008. I also built most of a fairly large OO club layout at Tabuk, before Tabuk I helped build a OO club layout at Dhahran.
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Richard,
I worked for Aramco in Dhahran 10/79 thru 1/85 and 2/91 thru 11/03.? I built my RR in 1980.
When were you on Dhahran?? ?There wasn't a club in DH when I was there?
Ma'as salama,
Bill Jolitz?
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On 9/15/20 10:02 PM, Phil Edholm wrote:
8 feet is hard to
handle, I have 6 foot modules and they are as big as I would go.
Another thing to consider is
that in the future you might want to convert the layout from a
straight line to an L shape to fit an available room after a
move.? If your modules are 2' wide, a simple 2' square could
join them and it wouldn't even require legs.? Just something to
think about during design.
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Thank again for all the great information!? I appreciate all the tips on how to join the two sections and a lot of good options.? I also am taking note of the idea to consider designing the layout first and then deciding how large the two sections should be.? I didn't think of that when I ordered two 2' x 4' sections from Sievers.
I am thinking of a layout something along the lines of below -?
Any advice on the layout or mods to it will be appreciated!
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Hi Bill
The Dhahran club, boasting a grand total of about seven members at best, at least when I was there, was actually in a small disused theatre on one of the BAe System compounds around Al-Khobar. I can not remember the actual compound name, '****.Gardens village compound sounds familiar. The club had existed for? quite a while before I got there in 1995. Around 1997 the club moved to a large basement on the same compound. Shortly after we moved, it was apparently discovered that a rather large void had opened up under the original club room foundations! We had a very large quadruple main line with overly complicated electrics using a lot, and I mean a lot, of dubious second hand relays. Air conditioning, or the lack of it, was a problem, in high summer the Peco Code 100 expanded, and most of the rail gaps closed up. This was usually when our 'boss' took it into his head to have an open day. We said 'fix the A/C properly and you can have an open day, otherwise there is no point as nothing will work'.
In 1990, we moved to Tabuk. The club here had been in a very old Portakabin, but we had the chance to move to the projection room in a brand new Gymnasium build on the Tabuk Gardens Village compound. Here we, about four of us at this time, eventually got the OO ''Grantchester, Chivenhall and Denton'layout built. This was analogue, about 25 feet square with a peninsular in the middle where Denton terminus was located. This was definitely the first time I've ever actually completed a OO layout, in that it all worked and was, as far the the scenery was concerned, virtually complete with a fantastic computer printed backdrop from Jenny Drake. The general theme was the early 1960s, with a Southern mainline and an LMR themed double track branch through Chivenhall to Denton. A Rivarrossi Allegheny and a Mexican diesel had been known to appear occasionally. At that time new Hornby and Bachmann was excellent value, and I certainly enjoyed the OO renaissance.?
Not Pendon standard but it suited us. If I had stayed much longer, static signals would have appeared, however interlocking was not going to happen, not while I was there anyway!
Good knows what has happened to it now, fortunately I have memories in the form of videos. photos and a layout description on the hard drive.?
We did use a lot of Bileezi, Metcalfe and Superquick buildings, plus a fair amount of scratchbuilding. Virtually nothing was built straight without modification, The Bilteezis had recessed windows stiffened with a serious amount of white card. The Mertcalfe and Superquick building had recessed corners. I discovered that the card, at the edge of appropriate wall joints, could be gradually scraped away with a knife blade, just leaving the narrow strip of printed paper at the edge to cover the card edge of the adjacent wall. Down pipes were basically cored solder or wire as appropriate. Guttering was generally from card strip.
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Thomas Knapp
Phil Edholm