开云体育

Hello all,

I'm a new member -- I just discovered the group today.

No room/permission for a layout at home (the wife keeps finding reasons
that it would be a bad idea) so I've decided to try another resource.
There are over a dozen empty cubes in my company's new office (with
more to be built) so I've decided to take over one temporarily.

The layout will be L-shaped - 94" X 70" - the shelves will be 23" wide.
I plan on placing the layout directly on the desktop surface. I'll
probably use foam for the base.

I'm hoping to build a small slice of the New Haven's Naugatuck line. I
still haven't decided on the scale - I have New Haven equipment in both
HO and N.

I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions from the group.

Thanks!

Steven Zaretsky

Hello All --

Just wanted to let you know of another list on Yahoo Groups:



This list is intended for people who are building model
railroads "just for fun" and who are not getting the information they
are looking for in the more "serious" model railroading discussion
lists.

The list has just started up so there's not much there yet, but I am
hoping that it is something we can make grow.

I have the feeling that there may be a lot of people out there who
are put off or intimidated by the more serious approach seen on some
of the other popular hobby mailing lists.

Someone on another of my lists commented on the impression that his
sort of modelling -- layouts designed for kids -- is not regarded
as "real model railroading" by the "experts" and professional
modellers on the big lists. Well, I think what he's doing is real
model railroading, and I think there should be a forum for it.

Small Layout Design will carry on as I am also interested
in "serious" modelling, but I also hope people will check out and
contribute to Model Railroading Just For Fun.

Thanks --

Jon Piasecki

jonp@...

Just found this group a couple days ago, I changed email addresses
due to switching internet providers and Yahoo wiped all my groups.
Found this one in the desperate search to relocated all the ones
I was on.

I'm modeling in N, and have been playing around with different plans.
I'm hoping to 'break ground' here in the next couple weeks. The
space I got can best be described as a 'b'. The fat part is 3.5' by
6' with a 1.5' x 3' extension running along the wall. So it's
roughly 9' x 3.5'.

The track plan I'm going with is, I hope, a nice mix of continous
running with a little switching district inside the bigger section.
I'm really into operations, but space is tight and I'd like the
chance to run the trains more than a few feet so the continuos track
arrangement. This also allows me to 'railfan' my layout.

The best part of all this is, I'll be moving in 8 months as I
graduate college and get me a real home (or is that get my wife a
real home?) Funny story there, she actually asked me if I would be
OK with buying a house with a full basement and putting the layout
down there. I of course responded, no! I wanted a tiny spare bedroom
that has to accomidate guests too. <grin>

Well before I write yet another book-sized post I'll end this.
Hopefully I'll get pics going here when I start.

Jason McClanahn

Oh, era is modern-day CSX, lots of run-through intermodal and coal
drag traffic. (Although I'm drooling over those SD90's Kato's about
to release.)

Hi All,

Quoten Jonathan Piasecki <jonp@...>:

About the small turntables you mention -- these would be small
turntables about 10 feet (305 cm) in diameter with a 90-degree

track

crossing, would they not? They'd be set into the floor so the
turntable top is flush with the floor, correct? Have you ever
modelled this sort of turntable? Do you know of any manufacturers
making such things? I've seen photos and illustrations of

these "90-

degree turnouts" in the Gazette, but have never seen a model of

them.

Well, there're several options here and the most suitable for H0
scale is:

Kibri #4130 Waggon-Drehscheibe, price about 4 Euro (US$ 7,99 at
Walthers)

Size:
4-3/4 x 4-3/4" or 12 x 12cm
Picture:

See also for an industrial scene (rather small picture):

Description:


This is a model of an 8 m turntable. The turntable can only be
operated manually, the rails are made from plastic so they are non-
conductive. The price is low (in the US twice as high as in Germany
though!) so you can afford a retry when modifiying this model.

This model is more used than the one you've described with the
crossing. Turntables with crossings are only used when both roads are
heavely used, thus avoiding turning the table all the time. The Kibri
model is excellent for feeding storage tracks.

Peco also delivers a H0e turntable, but this one is typically for
narrow guage mining railways, e.g. the former slate quarries in
Wales. Peco #SL427, price about 1,5 Euro. For metre gauge H0m Peco
delivers a larger one, which is in effect a closed locomotive
turntable. But this product can alse be used as a larger wagon
turntable.

Peco #1455 H0m Turntable, price US$59,99

Size:
diameter 151 mm
Picture:

Description:


You can buy all these turntables in the USA at Walther's,
, and most likely also at other shops.

These turntables can also be bought in N and Z scale, and probably
also for larger scales, such as 0 en 1. But these models are made by
small manufacturers and not widely available.

The turntables have to be flush with the pavement, when cars and
people have to cross them. Open turntables are alo used in industrial
sidings. It all depends on the specific situation where they are
placed. It's all described in the book:

Kasa, Carl N.; Ferrer, Frank:
Industriegleise - Ein komplettes Vademekum;
Verein Schweizerischer Anschlussgeleise- und
笔谤颈惫补迟驳ü迟别谤飞补驳别苍产别蝉颈迟锄别谤,
Uitikon, Switzerland, 1995; ISBN 3952078808

This book is written in German and you bookstore will have to order
it in Switzerland. This specialised book is not in the program of on-
line bookstores such as Amazon.com, as fas as I know.

Best regards,

Reinoud Kaasschieter
mailto:reinoud.kaasschieter@...

Hello Reinoud --

Welcome to the list and thanks for introducing yourself.

I've just taken a quick look at your website and must say that I'm
impressed -- there's a lot of information there! I'm looking forward
to reading through it in more detail later. Can I provide a link
from my (very meagre!) Small Layout Design page to your site? Please
advise as time permits.

>> I'd like to model a Swiss style industrial railway(*).
...
>> (*) Swiss style industrial railways seem to have a lot
>> of turntables for wagons.

From time to time I have thought of modelling an industrial railway.
These thoughts usually come after I see a photo or two of some really
neat small locomotives in the Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette (
). Photos of compressed air 0-4-0's
almost always get me thinking of a small and light industrial railway
modelled in S (1:64) or O (1:48) scale.

I've always thought it would be neat to model an industrial railroad
that is located within a factory structure. The entire layout would
represent the interior of a large mill or manufacturing
plant. "Industries" and switching spots would actually be different
pieces of manufacturing equipment, or points where the product is
transferred from a machine in the manufacturing process to a rail car
for transport to another location in the plant. The layout's
backdrop and "scenic dividers" would be the walls of the factory
structure.

The layout could feature a wide variety of equipment: battery
locomotives, compressed air locomotives, traction motors with
overhead wire, small steam locomotives for outside use, small 4-wheel
diesels, etc. The cars could be quite interesting, too -- generic
flatcars and gondolas, specialised cars for carrying a specific
product or part, etc.

About the small turntables you mention -- these would be small
turntables about 10 feet (305 cm) in diameter with a 90-degree track
crossing, would they not? They'd be set into the floor so the
turntable top is flush with the floor, correct? Have you ever
modelled this sort of turntable? Do you know of any manufacturers
making such things? I've seen photos and illustrations of these "90-
degree turnouts" in the Gazette, but have never seen a model of them.

Thanks again for posting and welcome to the list. I hope you'll
share your modelling with us in future posts!

Thanks --

Jon Piasecki

jonp@...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo Railway
Historical Society Website at
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Hi All,

Just today I found this mailing list by accident and signed up
immediately. (Well, I'm already member of a lot of other modelrailway
related Yahoo groups...) Anyhow, my name is Reinoud Kaasschieter, I'm
Dutch and live in Holland (Europe). Lately, I didn't have much time
building a layout: I've got two small childern and have still a lot
to do around the house. But I did find time to learn HTML/XHTML
professionnaly and in due course I made my homepages. These homepages
foucus mainly on, guess what, small layout design! Please take a look
at the result on .

I didn't recieve much comments but maybe I didn't target the right
audience. So please tell me what you think about it.

Currently, I've got 300x60 cm (about 10x2 feet) at my disposal for my
H0 railway. I'd like to model a Swiss style industrial railway(*).
Well, most industrial railways around the world look the same so if
you've got some bright ideas...

Best regards,

Reinoud Kaasschieter
mailto:reinoud.kaasschieter@...

(*) Swiss style industrial railways seem to have a lot of turntables
for wagons.

--- In small-layout-design@y..., dunver@i... wrote:

The 89' car issue is of course real - but I already own about 25
and would like to use them!
A single larger plant might be a good approach - perhaps an auto
plant, so I can use the 89' box, rack and flatcars as well as
conventional boxcars, tank cars, gondolas and coil cars.

The long car issue is not so much
(long cars+small space),
but
(long cars+tight curve+small space)
which will potentially give you the problems.
If your layout was straight rather than L shaped it would be easier
to manage these cars (but it isn't, so never mind!). Provided you
have left space for a 2' rad. curve the cars should squeal round the
curve, but you will not be able to leave cars there as the coupler
mismatch will be massive. That means that a big chunk in the middle
of your switching layout you can't leave cars on, which is hardly
ideal. :-)

Some possible thoughts, you could try:
(a) Keep all the loading/unloading points for 86'/89' cars on the
same alignment as your staging/fiddle track(s), so these cars never
have to deal with the curve, and put all the spotting locations for
the shorter cars round the curve. If you have the right space to pull
this off, it may be your best bet.
(b) The line with the curve is your "main" only, and all
switching/yard tracks are well away from the curve on the outer ends
of the layout, so that the cars are pulled round the curve in both
directions and not left on it as part of switching moves.

BTW an idea if you have the trackwork already is to draw it out full
size & play around with the design that way. (sorry if somebody had
just said that, & i'm repeating them)

Just some thoughts, let us know how you get on. :-)

Martyn Read

Hello --

I've been told that the link in my first message won't work unless
you're subscribed to the Layout Construction list. Sorry about that!

Try this:



... and go to message 654

Thanks -- Jon


--- In small-layout-design@y..., "Jonathan Piasecki" <jonp@b...>
wrote:

Hello All --

If you're not subscribed to Layout Construction and are interested

in

the plywood-vs-lumber debate, there's a thread developing on warped
plywood that you might want to check out.

The thread starts here:

Hello All --

If you're not subscribed to Layout Construction and are interested in
the plywood-vs-lumber debate, there's a thread developing on warped
plywood that you might want to check out.

The thread starts here:



Thanks --

Jon Piasecki
jonp@...

Visit the Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo Railway
Historical Society Website at

Visit the Small Layout Design Discussion Group at


Visit the Model Railroading Makes Me Grumpy Discussion
Group at this really long URL:

John:

Thanks for responding. I live in South Riverdale, near Pape and
Queen East, and am an active member of a club in Scarborough. Rather
than meet at George's, I'd be pleased if you'd visit us at the club
some Tuesday night after 7.30 PM. Contact me offline and I'll
provide you with the address.

The 89' car issue is of course real - but I already own about 25 and
would like to use them!

A single larger plant might be a good approach - perhaps an auto
plant, so I can use the 89' box, rack and flatcars as well as
conventional boxcars, tank cars, gondolas and coil cars.

The point about templates is well taken, and I'll probably do as you
suggest. I have all the track required from my previous layout
(10x12 around the walls) - Peco and Atlas.

Thanks again.

David

Hello David --

Welcome to the group and thanks for posting.

I'm also in the Toronto area (I live in Keswick at the Stephen
Leacock Memorial Trailer Park and work in Richmond Hill). Maybe I'll
bump into you at George's Trains someday.

Anyway -- your space sounds pretty small. I'll have to agree with
the responses to your question that have appeared here and on LDSIG --
those long cars will likely be a problem on a very small layout. An
89-foot car is just over 12 1/4" long. Setting aside possible
coupler and tracking problems, the sheer size of the car may be
overwhelming on a small layout.

Two hints that you might want to consider:

* Consider representing a large industrial plant in your
space, rather than several smaller industries.

The Paul Dolkos article on "Working The Mill Job" in MR
last year really sold me on this approach. Consider
modelling a large mill or factory or some industry that
would provide you with several locations for spotting
different types of cars.

An article to check out might be Linda Sand's article on
domino-based industries -- I believe this appeared in the
1999 issue of Model Railroad Planning. This approach is
not limited to dominoes -- you don't have to build them
to use her idea -- the article is useful for ideas on how
to arrange different types of industries with stub-ended
sidings that offer a variety of spots for different cars.
The article also showed that you can used actual three-
dimensional buildings on a domino or small layout --
you're not restricted to building flats.

* Draw your plans accurately! I think this will be
particularly important for such a small space. If you
already have track and turnout components on hand,
measure them and draw them accurately on your plans.
Create cardstock or styrene templates for drawing
turnouts and such accurately. Perhaps even create
templates to represent locomotives and different cars.
You could even cut out styrene or cardstock turnouts,
cars and locomotives to move them around on a scale
drawing to see how things will fit. Drawing
accurately will be important for your plan as you'll
need to have a pretty good idea of what will fit in your
space. Being able to move templates or cutouts around
might help to make the process go faster -- I don't know
as I've not tried the cutouts myself, but it sounds like
a good idea.

Good luck on your efforts -- keep us posted on what you come up with.

Thanks --

Jon Piasecki
jonp@...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo Railway
Historical Society Website at
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I'd like to build a small HO shelf-type industrial switching layout.
My interest is in UP diesel-era operation, and I would like to be
able to operate rolling stock ranging from 40' boxcars to 89'
flatcars and motive power from S2's to AS616's and SD7's.
The available space is quite limited. I can utilize an inverted L-
shaped space, approximately 18" wide, 72" along the right leg and an
additional 36" along the left leg. The right leg could accommodate a
temporary extension for staging purposes about 48" long. I am
looking for recommended designs and usable concepts.

Hi David,

This sounds quite a challenging size and shape, but it certainly sounds
feasible. From your list of requirements the only thing I'd question would
be 89' flats. You layout will have a 90 degree curve in it part way along
which every vehicle will most likely have to negotiate, and keeping this
wide enough for couplers to work effectively will probably result in a curve
that's bigger than your space.

The art of small layout design is where to compromise!

Martyn Read
Visit the RockSprings homepage at
www.geocities.com/gloriousnse/rockspringshome.html
Visit my Photopoint album at

Y'all,

I have just created a file in the group files area containing my
layout's track plan and a few photo's I took of it in
it's 'unfinished' state. If you'd like to take a look just go
to 'files' then to 'Donovan's 6'x10' layout' and you should be able
to take a quick peak.

The layout's spec's are:

Size: 6'4"x10'4"
Scale: HO
Era: Modern
Locale: Western Oregon branch line
Control: Currently DC - soon to be DCC
Prototype: BNSF/SP
Backdrop: Custom painted lynolium floor (back side)
Benchwork: Mostly plywood on 1"x2" framing hung on 'IKEA' brackets
Project began in October 2000

Hope y'all enjoy.

Donovan in Dallas

Hi y'all,

I am a new member to this list - it was recomended to me by a felow
member of another model railroad list.

Anyway, I currently have a 10'4"x6'4" "shelf" layout depicting the
BN/BNSF branches in Oregon. I am quite interested in prototype
operations and I believe in helping others out.

This is not my first layout, but all of them have been under the 25
square foot mark - with many others designed but never built. I have
modeled in N and HO, but I find that for a very small layout the
details you can get from HO are better sooted than N. N-scales real
advantage (in my opinion) is 'big' scenes and long trains - it's less
noticeable how much or little detail is showing that way.

Anyway, since I have much experience with "small" layouts, I expect
to be posting quite often.

Until then, keep 'em on the tracks.

Donovan in Dallas

I'd like to build a small HO shelf-type industrial switching layout.
My interest is in UP diesel-era operation, and I would like to be
able to operate rolling stock ranging from 40' boxcars to 89'
flatcars and motive power from S2's to AS616's and SD7's.

The available space is quite limited. I can utilize an inverted L-
shaped space, approximately 18" wide, 72" along the right leg and an
additional 36" along the left leg. The right leg could accommodate a
temporary extension for staging purposes about 48" long. I am
looking for recommended designs and usable concepts.

Thanks for any assistance.:-)

David Garon
Toronto, Canada

Jon:

I'm not sure if you absolutely HAVE to age paint, but I've gotten some
gallons that "aged" in the basement for about a year before I got around to
putting it on the walls. I've also had some that has "aged" so long that it
wound up gracing a different room than the one for which it was purchased.

If the plywood bowed AWAY, it was bowing against gravity and was most likely
reacting to internal stresses. How bad is the bow? I've seen some stuff at
HD where the center is bellied five or six inches from the ends. Not
plywood, mind you, but still badly bowed.

-- Carol & Jerry Jankura
Strongsville, Ohio
So many toys, so little time

Hello Jerry --

Thanks for the notes. Sadly, yes, the plywood was stored upright,
but it was leaning flat against a stable surface. The bow
was "outwards" or away from the surface the wood was resting on.

I'm going to go downstairs now and lay all my plywood flat -- thanks
for the note.

Do you really have to age paint? Really?

Oh -- and in the dictionary of life, bankruptcy and homelessness come
before play! Justathought.



--- In small-layout-design@y..., "Carol & Jerry Jankura"
<jerry.jankura@s...> wrote:

Jonathan:

First, you have to get your priorities in order. Just remember, in

the

alphabet of life - Play comes before Work.

How did you store that plywood? Against a wall? All plywood stored

that way

will tend to warp in time. I'm guessing that the 3/4 inch material

may have

also warped, but its added weight straightened it out.

Jonathan:

First, you have to get your priorities in order. Just remember, in the
alphabet of life - Play comes before Work.

How did you store that plywood? Against a wall? All plywood stored that way
will tend to warp in time. I'm guessing that the 3/4 inch material may have
also warped, but its added weight straightened it out. The lumber yards tend
to store it flat. Home Depot also stores it flat, but without not much
support between the ends. Some of their stuff warps. Even the 3/4 inch
thick stuff. The key to storing it is to provide adequate support to prevent
warping. If you store it vertically, make certain that it is straight, and
not leaning against anything at a signficant angle. If you store it flat,
make sure that it's adequately supported, even in the middle.

Also remember, as with lumber, you must age paint properly before it can be
properly used.

-- Carol & Jerry Jankura
Strongsville, Ohio
So many toys, so little time

...some miscellaneous thoughts.

Hello Everyone --

Just want to say welcome to the new members -- Small Layout Design is
up to 93 members now. I think we gained something like 10 people in
the last week or so. Thanks to everyone who's signed on -- please be
patient as we all work to get this list moving.

Some Miscellaneous Thoughts and Stuff:

_____________________________________
Alternative Hobby Mailing List

Sorry there has not been a lot of new Small Layout content from me
lately -- I've been busy with work and, I have to admit it, I've also
been busy with blowing off hobby steam in another list I "own": Model
Railroading Makes Me Grumpy



Be warned: Grumpy is not for everyone -- there's politics and
language and religion and sacred hobby cow bashing, so be warned if
you head over there. There's also stuff that is, I hope, good for a
laugh.

_____________________________________
1/2" Plywood Report

This may not be a big deal to anyone, but it's something that I found
interesting. I bought some wood last summer for a project that I
have not yet gotten around to. Like a good hobbyist who's deadly
serious about building the ultimate lifetime layout, I left the wood
in the basement to "season" (OK, that's my "serious hobbyist"
explanation -- the truth is that the stuff has sat down
there "seasoning" while other real-world projects, like work, took
precedence).

At about the same time, I also bought the more "proper" (and more
expensive) 3/4" material that's often recommended in the hobby press
for things like domino construction.

Anyway -- I was surprised to find last night that the 1/2" good-one-
side plywood sheets -- two 2-foot by 4-foot panels -- have all taken
on a distinct bow in their long dimension.

The 3/4" material is still straight and does not appear to have
changed any over the same time.

I would describe our basement conditions as better than average: dry,
well heated, with humidity well regulated by an air conditioner in
summer and a humidifier in winter.

I'm really quite surprised by this -- the 1/2" material seemed quite
sturdy to me. I figure I can still straighten it out with some
bracing and such, but I don't think I would consider it for domino-
type or flat table construction.

Just thought I would share this with you all.

Has anyone else had problems with 1/2" plywood material warping and
bowing over time?

_____________________________________
Interesting Layout Room Solution

Picked up the June 2001 Model Railroader the other day. The Small
Layout Contest 3rd Place article appears in this issue.

What I find most interesting about this article and layout is
the "room" the modeller built for his layout. He's assembled an 8-
foot by 12-foot "room" in his two-car (or possibly larger) garage
using 3/8" plywood sheets and 2-by lumber. The room has its own
lighting and air conditioning. The rest of the garage is used as a
garage and wood shop.

I don't believe the article mentions how the room is "roofed", but my
guess is that some sort of drop-ceiling is used.

This approach sounds rather interesting. I'd be curious to compare
the costs of this approach with that of, say, finishing a garage
space with drywall.

Like the MR author, the layout I'm planning will be sharing space
with a small woodworking shop/sawdust factory. Dust on the layout
will obviously be a problem, so I'm going to have to design some sort
of dust protection into the layout. I'm thinking of plastic (lexan
or acrylic) sheets that are magnetically secured to the layout
(completely plugging the space between fascia and valence) to close
off the layout when the shop is in use.

And to be really high tech about it, I'm also thinking of using a
small fan (say, a 12 V computer ventilation fan or two) to pump air
into the "closed" layout to maintain a positive pressure in the
layout space to keep out dust. Of course, the fan will have to have
its intake filtered and located in another room so that it does not
draw dust into the layout.

Anyone else solved the problem of a layout sharing space with another
dusty hobby?

_____________________________________
Have a Small Layout?

To help support this discussion group, I'd like to put together a
website that serves as a resource for small layout owners and
designers. We have the space and some really limited stuff up now
at --



-- but I'd like to get more there.

Do you have your small layout described on a website? Send me your
URL and I'll build a Links page on the SLD site.

Do you have a small layout but no way to get pictures and text up on
the web? Contact me at --

small-layout-design-owner@...

-- and we'll discuss ways to get your material on the SLD website.

Hope to hear from you!

Thanks --

Jon Piasecki

jonp@...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo Railway
Historical Society Website at

Visit the Small Layout Design discussion group at


Vent some steam at Model Railroading Makes Me Grumpy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Glad to hear things are moving ahead.

I still am planning the mini switching layout but have been held back with
other modeling projects and of course spring is here and it is time to rake,
hoe, and generally put some blood, sweat and tears into the soil.

Later this month I will be picking up a layout I have inherited. A very
close friend of the family passed away at Christmas time and it was his wish
that I inherit his layout etc... It is approx 10x15 and was built in the
late 80s by him and I. I plan to do a little expansion on it and will update
the group with my progress later this summer.

-----------------------------------
Greg Williams
Argyle, New Brunswick, Canada