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This is a forward of a email that came out on the "DEMU" list on the 15th.
My entry is already in planning. It's a very restrictive space, and British
outline, but I thought you'd like to see....

Martyn :-)

From: "Philip Sutton" <editors@r...>
Date: Thu Mar 15, 2001 1:00pm
Subject: Shunting layout competition

SHUNTING LAYOUT COMPETITION - THE TIME HAS ARRIVED!

Layout Building Competition - 100 prize

Can you build a shunting layout?

RAIL EXPRESS Magazine is joining forces with modern modelling society DEMU
to stage a layout building competition... but space is tight!

A series of e-mails bouncing back and forth started it! Why not
encourage modern modellers to get out of their comfy armchairs and get
building by starting a layout competition? Further impetus has been
provided by the arrival of the smooth running Bachmann Class 08 which
would be a ideal starting point (if modelling in 4mm scale) and just the
job on a Osmall shunting layout.

So there you have it, RE has just presented you with a light-hearted
challenge so that readers can shows us just what can be achieved in a
small space. The area to work with is tight (no space problems and
pocket money budgets) and the timescale long, so whats stopping you...
and your friends? Dont forget theres plenty of quality RTR stock
already available in ON and OOO so you dont have to make life
difficult.

The prize? Well how about 100 worth of stock from your favourite model
shop plus a few bonus prizes thrown in?

Thanks are due to the enthusiastic members of DEMU for the idea and to
the Gauge OO Guild from whose similar competition we have developed the
rules. Look out for periodic updates and reminders including an entry
form next month.

The rules are simple:

Individuals are to design and build a fully operational model railway
layout, primarily to display shunting activities. The design must
include at least one working point (not catch point).

The entire layout (including any fiddle yard) must not exceed the
following dimensions: 2002 sq ins in OO gauge; 653 sq ins in
OP4/EM/OO; 500 sq ins in OHO; 368 sq ins in OTT; 163 sq ins in
ON. All scales/gauges are allowed, based proportionally upon the size
given above. Any permutation of layout size within these guidelines -or
smaller - is allowed (eg approx. 4'6"x1' or 2'3"x2' etc in OOO). Get
your graph paper out!

Diesel and electric locos only are permitted. Ideally these will be
shunters but small single-cabbed locos of 1,000 hp or less will also be
allowed. Locos and stock must be suitable for period (and location).

Layouts should have not been previously exhibited and should be fully
finished by the deadline of April 1st, 2002.

Full entry form and coupon will be published next month enabling you to
register for this competition. The competition is open to all-comers but
pre-registration is a condition of entry. Entrants may be required to
travel, with layouts, to a judging venue.

The layouts will be judged by several experienced modellers, none of
whom will be entering the competition. They will view each layout and
award a winner using a points scoring system. Equal importance will be
placed on operation, locos/rolling stock, scenery/buildings and
realism/atmosphere. There will be one overall winner although a OJunior
(16 and under) prize will also be awarded.

--

Let the arguments begin... Discussion appreciated but no questions
please - the above explains all, no exceptions. Open to ANY
interpretation as long as your project is WITHIN the rules. And before
you ask RE & DEMU are there to promote the BRITISH railway scene.

--
Philip Sutton
Rail Express Magazine
Foursight Publications Ltd
20 Park Street
King's Cliffe
Near Peterborough PE8 6XN
United Kingdom
Tel: 01780 470086 Fax: 01780 470060

--

Interesting. I just dug out and read the article. However, I would be unable to implement the small hidden staging area. The layout will have to be against a wall. Still, it is an interesting plan and worthy of more study, thank you.

--- "Jeff Hatcher" <thehatchers@...>

wrote:
Hi Greg,
A similar layout that could be adapted to your space can be found
in the June 1999 MR. It's called Maine Central's Rockland North Yard.
It's quite similar in that two locos make up for the lack of a
runaround. What I like about it is the (very)wee bit of hidden staging
along with the decent siding length. To crank the operational
challenges, I might place more than one industry on one or more of the
long sidings, or put a couple of bays on the warehouse siding
requiring particular "spots".
Now this layout is 12"x54" so you could increase the trailing siding
and staging by the 6" and still fit it into your space!
It's not the be-all-end-all, but it does offer more than enough
operation for the space IMHO.
The author, Julian Andrews, has had a couple of articles in the UK
mag Railway Modeller, which is a great source of inspiration for
small layouts. It's sister publication, Continental Modeller, may be
more on point as it covers the rest of the world including North
America. You can get to it by searching under Peco.
Cheers,
Jeff Hatcher

--- In small-layout-design@y..., Greg Williams <cpr_fan@r...> wrote:

I was thinking the same thing. However I think the original intent

was to have some senic interest and not have it be a flat layout. As
you say, it could easily be adapted to that form.


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==
Greg Williams
Argyle, New Brunswick
Canada

cpr_fan@...


_____________________________________________________________
Visit today! Get your
free @RRmail.com e-mail account from !

Hi Martyn,
Nothing gets the juices going like a friendly competition.
I think it is a great idea!
I've got a class 03 and a few cars to shunt about.
My only concern is:

"Entrants may be required to travel,with layouts,to a judging venue."

Seeing as I live in Canada, that would be quite a haul for
the prize!
I wonder if they would consider using BRMNA judges for those
of us in the "colonies"?
Quite the challenge.I wonder how many "Simple Sidings" style layouts
will appear.
I'd be thinking Wantage save for the diesel requirement.
Thanks for the post,
Jeff

--- In small-layout-design@y..., "Martyn Read" <Martyn@R...> wrote:

This is a forward of a email that came out on the "DEMU" list on

the
15th.

My entry is already in planning. It's a very restrictive space, and

British

outline, but I thought you'd like to see....

Martyn :-)

"Entrants may be required to travel,with layouts,to a judging venue."
Seeing as I live in Canada, that would be quite a haul for
the prize!

Heh heh, I suppose at least the layout will be small enough to go in your
luggage!
I hadn't thought about you guys entering, but it's a very small size of
layout and really does excercise the mind to get the most out of it.

Quite the challenge.I wonder how many "Simple Sidings" style layouts
will appear.

Mine is like that, just two points, but that's because i'm going to be using
large modern bogie stock, If I was doing 70's and previous I would have gone
for a full run round loop & sidings (& lots of rusty 16t minerals)

I'd be thinking Wantage save for the diesel requirement.

Mmmm good call!

Martyn :-)

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the ideas. I may be moving to a place with a slightly
larger layout space in a year or less, so things likely won't be a
tight as my original description. I'm thinking in terms of a 9x12
bedroom with both door and closet at the same end.
_____________________________________
| | |
| | |
| |
| |
| |
| | |
|___| |
| &#92; |
| &#92;_________________________________|



Your comments got me thinking and I think I'll concentrate on the
warehouse area just east of the main body of the yard and the freight
house and fuel dealers near the west end of the yard. The diesel
shop will be there in between as the back drop for my locomotive
pictures, just as it is in most of my prototype photos. The yard
tracks will be minimally represented and space will mean the
turntable and roundhouse will be on the backdrop. I see that I can
exaggerate the bends in the yard to wrap it around three sides of the
room

--- In small-layout-design@y..., "Martyn Read" <Martyn@R...> wrote:

Could you incorporate a 5 or 6 track traverser behind the scene?
Pull the fist cut of 5 off, then the second. Move the traverser

over

and pull the third cut etc...
This presupposes 10 cars per track but even at 5 cars per track, a
little "nudge" is all that would be required to sustain the

illusion.

Jeff Hatcher

Hey that's a really good idea, you'd have to be careful not to

leave cars

over the join on any other track, but that sounds like it could

work.

Martyn :-)

Hello --

Good luck on the move!

Where is the window in the room? Just wondering.

Keep us posted on how you design a layout to fit this space. I'm
interested to see how you deal with the window and the closet.

That's something that has bugged me about the layout plans in MRP and
even the recent 5-by-9-with-wings layout in the current MR: the rooms
for these layouts do not strike me as realistic.

For example, when MRP had a bedroom layout design contest a few years
ago, they designed a somewhat large-ish bedroom with the door and
closet conveniently tucked away in a corner, like this:

_______________
| Window |
| |
| |
| |
| |__
| |
| | Closet
| __|
|________ _|
Door

(Or it was something similar to this).

I'm sure this arrangement must exist somewhere, but it seems awfully
convenient for the purposes of the contest -- the door and closet can
be dealt with easily with a single lift-out span. Designing a layout
to fit this space is a lot harder if the closet is away from the
entrance and interrupts another wall -- you'd need another lift-out
if you want access to the closet.

The 5-by-9-with-wings article in the recent MR shows closet doors
that open INTO the closet. I don't think I've ever seen a closet,
other than a large walk-in, with doors that open in to the storage
area. Again, my impression was that this was rather unrealistic.

Anyway -- I am very curious to see how your plan develops. The door
and closet in the same end of the room should be helpful -- you
could, perhaps, even use the space in the closet for something, such
as staging.

Thanks --

Jon Piasecki
jonp@...


--- In small-layout-design@y..., b-freemantle@h... wrote:

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the ideas. I may be moving to a place with a

slightly

larger layout space in a year or less, so things likely won't be a
tight as my original description. I'm thinking in terms of a 9x12
bedroom with both door and closet at the same end.
_____________________________________
| | |
| | |
| |
| |
| |
| | |
|___| |
| &#92; |
| &#92;_________________________________|

<edit>

Have seen reference to fire insurance maps for detailed maps of areas.
I see the company in the US is Sanborn. Before I head to the local
library does anyone know what the Canadian equivalent is to Sanborn or
do I just ask to see fire insurance maps?

Greg Williams
cpr_fan@...

Hello Greg --

The Brantford maps I found at the Brantford Public Library were
published by the Canadian Underwriters Association. The maps I found
date from 1965 but appear to have been updated for years before then.

I also have a copy of a much older fire insurance map and
illustration that shows a fascinating map and perspective drawing of
the Massey-Harris factory in Brantford. The map dates from before
1920 but I don't recall the date exactly. I'll look up the publisher
of that map when I get home -- will let you know.

I found I was able to get what I was looking for by calling the
library and asking for "fire insurance maps" and "any maps at all,
whatever, I'll take anything!". They knew what I meant by "fire
insurance maps".

A man / company by the name of Charles Goad also published insurance
maps and city plans. I know that Goad did a rather thorough series
for Ontario cities in the late 19th century -- I'm not sure if Goad
covered other areas of Canada as well, but I think he may have.

I've seen Goad maps for sites in Toronto and they are similar in
style to the Brantford maps and what I have seen of Sanborn maps. I
believe Goad also covered British cities.

Locations to try for maps:

* libraries
* city/town halls
* local historical societies and museums
* county offices
* I've not tried it, but how about insurance brokers and offices?

Hope this helps!

Thanks -- Jon

jonp@...

Excellent, exactly what I needed to know. CPR abandoned the line in the town near where I live in the late eighties and early nineties. I am hoping to find some detailed info on the industries served and track arrangements.

I know that McCain foods was one of their customers as they were in opposition of the abandonment. One resource I did find was the National Transportation Agency website. It has Orders and Decicions dating back to the late eighties. This covers information on the railways requests to abandon lines and the public opposition.



click on rulings.

==
Greg Williams
Argyle, New Brunswick
Canada

cpr_fan@...


_____________________________________________________________
Visit today! Get your
free @RRmail.com e-mail account from !

Hello Greg --

Thanks for the NTA link -- will check it out later tonight!

The other insurance map publisher was (is?) --

"Plan Department of the Associated Mutual Insurance Companies"

Not sure if "Associated Mutual Insurance Company(ies)" was an
independent entity or if it was a common resource shared by many
companies.

The map of the Brantford Massey-Harris plant produced by them dates
from August 3, 1920. Notes on the various on-site structures appear
to date from 1882. Not sure if the company was making plans from
1882 or simply documenting when structures were built.

The map shows the TH&B sidings that served the plant as well as what
manufacturing processes were carried out in each part of the plant.
This information is invaluable for determining what got shipped
where -- should be very helpful for determining car loads and car
types and operations.

Good luck on finding your local information!

Thanks -- Jon


--- In small-layout-design@y..., Greg Williams <cpr_fan@r...> wrote:

Excellent, exactly what I needed to know. CPR abandoned the line in

the town near where I live in the late eighties and early nineties. I
am hoping to find some detailed info on the industries served and
track arrangements.

I know that McCain foods was one of their customers as they were in

opposition of the abandonment. One resource I did find was the
National Transportation Agency website. It has Orders and Decicions
dating back to the late eighties. This covers information on the
railways requests to abandon lines and the public opposition.

click on rulings.

==
Greg Williams
Argyle, New Brunswick
Canada

cpr_fan@r...


_____________________________________________________________
Visit today! Get your
free @RRmail.com e-mail account from !

Hi all,

Jon Piasecki commented that:

'....when MRP had a bedroom layout design contest a few years
ago, they designed a somewhat large-ish bedroom with the door and
closet conveniently tucked away in a corner, like this:

_______________
| Window |
| |
| |
| |
| |__
| |
| | Closet
| __|
|________ _|
Door

(Or it was something similar to this).

I'm sure this arrangement must exist somewhere, but it seems awfully
convenient for the purposes of the contest -- the door and closet can
be dealt with easily with a single lift-out span....'

This bedroom DOES exist in reality, as it is the plan for the spare bedroom
in MRP editor Tony Koester's own house.

The close proximity of the entrance door to the closet sure did make it
convenient to bridge the gap in my N&W plan as designed for this room (see
MRP2000).

Interestingly, my elder son's bedroom has an identical arrangement, save
being a foot shorter and a foot narrower - Z scale, anyone? <G>

Cheers,
Simon Leigh,
Modelling the N&W in N Scale, c. 1968
Auckland, N.Z.

The window is in the end opposite the closet and is about
54" above the floor and about 54"-56" wide with a single
slider on the right. This is a very typical arrangement
around here for a SxS duplex built from the late 60s to 80s.
I'm thinking in terms of a relatively large switching layout
with a removeable bridge to get past the closet and door. A
narrow shelf 8-10" wide across the front of the window would
give access to put in an exhaust fan for paints and glue
fumes as the modelling bench would be below the benchwork
under the window. The south yard, as it was sometimes
known, would be on the left looking at the window and the
warehouse area would be on the right. It would mean
rearranging the yard somewhat as access to the south yard is
at the west end and would require a lead to keep it all the
the right order. I'll take a go at it with Atlas RightTrack
and see what I can come up with. I already have two or
three possible arrangements in my head. :-)) (That's a grin
with a beard)

BTW, this may not be the room after all. The house search
is still in a state of flux as I want to make sure I have
enough left over each month to put something into the
layout.

Brian in Prince George, BC,

Modelling CPR in Nelson, BC in 1963

Hello --

Thanks, Simon, for pointing out the origins of the room plan. I was
not aware that it was based on something from Mr. Koester own home --
I thought it was just a room they came up with for the purposes of
the contest.

If the room had been different -- say, with the closet out along
another wall, like this:

____Window_____
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| Entrance
|
|_ _________|
|___|
Closet

...do you think it would still be practical to design a similar
layout for the room? Consider the same criteria -- you need to be
able to access the window for ventilation and possible escape, you
need to be able to access the closet, you need to be able to use the
room for other purposes, etc.

Just wondering how a room layout where two of the walls are
obstructed with a doorway would affect your thinking and planning for
the room.

Thanks!

Jon Piasecki
jonp@...

--- In small-layout-design@y..., jonp@b... wrote:

If the room had been different -- say, with the closet out along
another wall, like this:

____Window_____
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| Entrance
|
|_ _________|
|___|
Closet

...do you think it would still be practical to design a similar
layout for the room? Consider the same criteria -- you need to be
able to access the window for ventilation and possible escape, you
need to be able to access the closet, you need to be able to use

the

room for other purposes, etc.

Hi there SLD'ers,

I saw one of Jon's posts in the LDSIG and joined up here as I feel
the layout I'm currently building fits the small layout design
concept.

It's an On3 layout based on Iain Rice's "Linked Up Logger" design in
his recent book. Basically, it's a set of independent modules of
10-15 square feet each linked together with throw-away sections of
track. The major advantage for me is that the sections are moveable
in case I get transferred somewhere (a definite possibility). The
automatic vignetting of scenes I think will also work out well.

In the case of Jon's room, you can use the linking sections to span
the closet and the window. L=linking section, *=module

____Window_____
|****LLLLLL|
|**** |
|** **|
|** **|
|** **|
|** Entrance
|**
|_LLLLL****|
|___|
Closet

If you look at my webpage:

you can see how I'm implementing things...

Regards,
Barry Cott
Calgary, AB

Hello Barry --

Thanks for posting -- just spent some time at your website and want
to say that I'm impressed with both the site and the layout.

Last summer, my wife and I drove through the area you're modelling --
we drove from Restoule Provincial Park through Port Loring en route
to Sudbury. We'll probably be visiting the area again this summer --
let me know if you want me to photograph anything for you up there!

The idea of the disposable track sections is something that I had not
considered. When I try to cram layouts into spaces, I am still
thinking in terms of "whole layout" rather than individual scenes
that can be assembled together. The linked-scenes approach might be
one to consider.

I find your choice of benchwork materials to be interesting. I like
the way you have the layout on top and a shelf or two underneath the
module -- seems like a great use of space.

Any idea how heavy the modules are? I'm just wondering if the shelf
hanging hardware is having any trouble supporting them.

You mention that you're using the Lee Valley Double-Rack shelf
hardware -- would you recommend using the single-rack stuff commonly
available at hardware stores? Or does the double-rack stuff make a
noticeable difference?

Thanks -- Jon

--- In small-layout-design@y..., jonp@b... wrote:

Last summer, my wife and I drove through the area you're modelling
we drove from Restoule Provincial Park through Port Loring en route
to Sudbury. We'll probably be visiting the area again this summer
let me know if you want me to photograph anything for you up there!

Thanks for the offer. I hope to get up there this summer as well.
My parents have retired to the cottage just outside of Parry Sound
and I hope to get some time to visit both.

The idea of the disposable track sections is something that I had
not considered. When I try to cram layouts into spaces, I am still
thinking in terms of "whole layout" rather than individual scenes
that can be assembled together. The linked-scenes approach might
be one to consider.

I'll let you and others know how it turns out. One of the reasons I
built it "linked up" was that I hadn't seen anyone else try it and
thought I'd give it a go.

I find your choice of benchwork materials to be interesting. I
like the way you have the layout on top and a shelf or two
underneath the module -- seems like a great use of space.

It's pretty much what Iain Rice laid out in his book. Lightweight
plywood, glue only joints, foam for scenery.

Any idea how heavy the modules are? I'm just wondering if the
shelf hanging hardware is having any trouble supporting them.

I'd guess that the whole benchwork for the dock module weighs no more
than one 4'x8' sheet of 1/4" plywood. It's very light. The shelves
are designed for a lot more load than that. It's the magazines on
the shelves underneath that are the heavy stuff.

You mention that you're using the Lee Valley Double-Rack shelf
hardware -- would you recommend using the single-rack stuff
commonly available at hardware stores? Or does the double-rack
stuff make a noticeable difference?

We had a good discussion in the ldsig list on the pros and cons of
single versus double rack. The strike against the single rack was
its lack of rigidness. The shelf brackets in a single rack systems
typically have some sideways slop in them. The double brackets are
solid. I've also found that you can get longer double brackets than
singles. Lee Valley is convenient for me; I have seen similar double
track systems in Home Depot and the like.

The shelving system is probably overkill for the layout alone; but
with the storage underneath, it's a good match.

Regards,
Barry Cott
Calgary, AB

Hi Jon,

You asked:

'If the room had been different -- say, with the closet out along
another wall, like this:

____Window_____
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| Entrance
|
|_ _________|
|___|
Closet

...do you think it would still be practical to design a similar
layout for the room? ...<snip out further detail bits>'

I think Barry Cott's approach is a good solution to this design challenge,
and could well be the best way to get a similar layout.

Another way to approach it, if you're not into removable linking sections,
would be to go with a waterwings topology:


____Window_____
|**** |
||
|** **|
|** ***|
|*** ****|
|**** ***| Entrance
|****
|** _________|
|___|
Closet

As well as the tried and true dogbone, this could potentially lend itself to
having a helix in each lobe, with staging under the visible portions of the
layout. Having said that, I'm not a huge fan of helices. I think this would
also use up more floor area with the two lobes, which may not be ideal given
the other uses of the room.

Cheers,
Simon (in digest mode so a bit slow to reply sometimes).

--- In small-layout-design@y..., Simon Leigh <simon.leigh@w...> wrote:

I think Barry Cott's approach is a good solution to this design

challenge,

and could well be the best way to get a similar layout.

Another way to approach it, if you're not into removable linking

sections,

would be to go with a waterwings topology:


____Window_____
|**** |
||
|** **|
|** ***|
|*** ****|
|**** ***| Entrance
|****
|** _________|
|___|
Closet

I think Barry's onto something good as well!
The waterwings approach is yet another solution to the
room's design.
A further idea may be to try something like David Barrow's
South Plains revisited layout where the the 2 areas of South
Plains and Industry yard were physically separated, one along
each wall.
The portable staging table on coasters was used to bridge the gap
transferring cars from one side of the room to the other. It might
look like this:


____Window_________

|** **|
|** **|
|** **|
|** **|
|** **|
|** **| Entrance
|++< staging >++
|++ cart____++|
|___|
Closet

I would likely opt for the excellent shelf setup of Barry's.
However, if I was a real exhibitionist, (as in exhibiting at
train shows folks),<G> I might opt to take one or the other side
on the road with the staging cart.
At least I wouldn't have to worry about re-attaching it when I
got home!
Regards,
Jeff

Hello -

Some very good suggestions here - thanks to everyone for contributing.

For my particular application, I think the water wings or folded
dogbone approach would be impractical - I don't have the room for the
lobes. Turning an HO train would require a lobe that is at least 4
feet at its widest point. I think such large benchwork would
overpower my room (which has to also serve as a home office). If the
room was entirely for hobby use, though, I'd consider the wings
design, or perhaps a completely around-the-walls design of some sort.

I like the idea of a staging cart - it could serve as a working
staging yard, a manual fiddle yard for moving stock off and on the
layout, a whole-train turntable and a storage cabinet all in a single
unit. Has anyone tried using a staging cart on a carpeted floor?
The floor in the room is carpeted, so I think I would have to
investigate different casters to see which would work well on a soft
surface. (I've been told that lifting up the carpet is not an
option!)

Some time ago I thought of an idea that I have since seen published
in, I believe, MRP 2001: wrap the layout with staging.

Consider the following:

Window
___________________________________
| sssssssssssssssssssssssss |
| s ................... s |
| s . _________________ . s |
| s x . / Interchange &#92; . x s |
| s x . | | . x s |
| s x . | | . x s |
| s x . | | . x s |
| s x . | | . x s |
| s x . | | . x s |
| s x . | | . x s |
| s x . | | . x s |
| s x . | | . x s |
| s x . | |___x___|
| s x . | |
| s x . | |
|___x___|
| Entrance
|
|_ ________________________|
| |
| Closet |
|________|

If this does not display properly for you, select the text and change
the font to a monospaced font, such as Courier.

"s" represents the staging track.

"x" represents a view block, such as a backdrop or structure flats.

"." represents the visible track.

"Interchange" indicates the area where the staging tracks would
connect with the visible track.

This arrangement has the potential to create three interesting
switching locations: two switching scenes on the left and right sides
of the layout, and the interchange scene in front of the window.

The staging yards would not be too complex - two tracks behind the
view blocks would probably do it. I figure the staging areas will be
about 8 inches deep, and the visible areas will be 16 inches deep -
for a total shelf depth of 24 inches. The shelf across the window
would be narrower - 12 to 16 inches.

I think you could simulate all sorts of different operations here.
The staging tracks could represent the "main line through town" while
the switching locations are major industries or collections of
industries. A train travelling from east to west - right to left on
the plan above - would leave the right-hand staging and arrive at the
interchange. It would perform switching at both locations and then
continue out of town to the left-hand staging area. Turn the engine
and caboose on a staging cart/train turntable, lift another train,
and the train can make the return trip heading west to east (left to
right on the plan).

This would actually simulate the operations I'm interested in - the
Waterford branch of the Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo operated in a
similar manner. A train would leave Hamilton (right-hand staging)
and arrive in Brantford. Switching would be performed, and then the
train would continue west to the Canada Southern/NYC interchange at
Waterford (left-hand staging). At Waterford, the power was turned
and interchange cars were picked up. The train then returned east to
Hamilton via Brantford, performing any required switching on the
return trip.

Now that this has got me thinking of how I could use this sort of
layout to represent the TH&B, here's an observation: with this sort
of layout I think I can simulate the timetable for the Waterford
branch (focusing on switching in Brantford), but I won't be able to
model prototype scenes. At best, I could use structures from the
prototype to suggest the scene, but I likely won't be able to use the
prototype's track arrangement.

On the other hand, an earlier layout design intended to represent
Brantford Yard captured (I think!) the look of the prototype scene,
but it would not really offer the ability to simulate the prototype's
timetable or operations.

Interesting tradeoffs!

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear comments on staging design for this
layout. What would practically fit in an 8-inch deep area? I'm not
going to be doing switching back there, so I don't need a lot of 0-5-
0 access. Any thoughts?

Thanks - Jon

jonp@...

Other plan suggestions from this thread:

Barry Cott: Modules with "disposable" links --

____Window_____
|****LLLLLL|
|**** |
|** **|
|** **|
|** **|
|** Entrance
|**
|_LLLLL****|
|___|
Closet


Simon Leigh: Water Wings --

____Window_____
|**** |
||
|** **|
|** ***|
|*** ****|
|**** ***| Entrance
|****
|** _________|
|___|
Closet


Jeff Hatcher: Two Shelves and Staging Cart --

____Window_____
|** **|
|** **|
|** **|
|** **|
|** **|
|** **| Entrance
|++< staging >++
|++ cart____++|
|___|
Closet

--- In small-layout-design@y..., jonp@b... wrote:

I like the idea of a staging cart - it could serve as a working
staging yard, a manual fiddle yard for moving stock off and on the
layout, a whole-train turntable and a storage cabinet all in a
single unit. Has anyone tried using a staging cart on a carpeted
floor? The floor in the room is carpeted, so I think I would have

to

investigate different casters to see which would work well on a

soft

surface. (I've been told that lifting up the carpet is not an
option!)

I haven't built my staging cart yet (the idea really only came along
after seeing Iain Rice's design in the Feb 2001 Model Railroader) so
I'm a little in the dark. However, the key to me will be alignment
with the module, both vertically and horizontially. I plan on some
sort of system to lock the cart to the module and figure that I'll
need to have some sort of fine vertical adjustment. I've again been
looking at the Lee Valley catalogue since they have a wide selection
of casters, some designed for carpeted surfaces.

The best online resource for train turntables I've found is here:


Terrific modeling as well....

Regards,
Barry Cott
Calgary, AB