|
I live across a valley from a ski mountain.? My house is ~300' above the valley floor on the edge of a steep hill.? Top of the ski mountain is ~3000' above the valley floor.? Cell phone coverage on the mountain is poor.? Using FRS or GRMS simplex to meet up with friends / family works ok but not great.? I haven't done extensive testing but I know I can communicate from some areas of the mountain to my house using (2) Radioddity GM-30s.? If I had a repeater at my house, I'm hoping I could get better communications on the mountain.? Does this seem reasonable?
?
I've started the research journey on this a couple times before becoming overwhelmed with opinions.
- I'm new to radio but I have experience in other electronics, machine tools, etc.? With guidance I'm confident I can execute this project successfully.
- Snow and wind are certainties at this location.
- Initial temporary test would be from a balcony powered from an outdoor outlet.? Initial test would not self ID.
- Improvements could include: roof mounted antenna, self ID, outdoor electronics enclosure (to reduce lightning risk to house), hardwire or in use receptacle cover.
My understanding is I need:
- Antenna
- Hardline.? Consensus seems to be on LDF4-50A
- Duplexer
- Repeater / radio pair.
I don't have access to radio specific tools but multimeter use, soldering, desoldering, wiring, mounting, etc. are within my skill set.? Thanks for looking.
|
I have a GMRS repeater at 200ft above a valley floor on the edge of a steep hill. There are mountains surrounding the valley a good 2,500ft higher than my repeater. My repeater saturates the valley to handhelds covering an area about 10mi long and the width of the valley and this is due to the large repeater antenna and 50 watts out of the repeater.?
|
Man if I could put a repeater up on a 3000 ft mountain I'd be happy.. ?? I guess one on a 50 to 100 ft tower at your house would probably be better than what you've got right now.?
Chris WB5ITT? WRXZ 789
I live across a valley from a ski mountain.? My house is ~300' above the valley floor on the edge of a steep hill.? Top of the ski mountain is ~3000' above the valley floor.? Cell phone coverage on the mountain is poor.? Using FRS or GRMS simplex to meet up with friends / family works ok but not great.? I haven't done extensive testing but I know I can communicate from some areas of the mountain to my house using (2) Radioddity GM-30s.? If I had a repeater at my house, I'm hoping I could get better communications on the mountain.? Does this seem reasonable?
?
I've started the research journey on this a couple times before becoming overwhelmed with opinions.
- I'm new to radio but I have experience in other electronics, machine tools, etc.? With guidance I'm confident I can execute this project successfully.
- Snow and wind are certainties at this location.
- Initial temporary test would be from a balcony powered from an outdoor outlet.? Initial test would not self ID.
- Improvements could include: roof mounted antenna, self ID, outdoor electronics enclosure (to reduce lightning risk to house), hardwire or in use receptacle cover.
My understanding is I need:
- Antenna
- Hardline.? Consensus seems to be on LDF4-50A
- Duplexer
- Repeater / radio pair.
I don't have access to radio specific tools but multimeter use, soldering, desoldering, wiring, mounting, etc. are within my skill set.? Thanks for looking.
|
You'll also need a repeater controller but I think the mmdvm board and a raspberry pi will do an FM repeater.? Or get the USB version and a NUC.
?
Height is might, so if the repeater is at the same height as an HT you might not see much improvement.
|
What is your budget? I would recommend a good quality antenna(Sinclair or DB), and a Kenwood repeater. Of course, good duplexer and LDF450 feedline or equivalent. Stay away from any of the LMR cables. ?You are looking at $5,000+ . You can do it cheaper, but depending on how much it is being used, going with a commercial grade repeater may be your best choice.?
|
Hell...ill sell you a 25 watt gmrs repeater with a tuned duplexer and all double shielded(not lmr400) interconnect cables for $1000!.
I'll sell you a sinclair 4 bay antenna for $400.
I'll sell you 60' of 1/2" hardline with connectors for $200.
Boom!! $1600.....let's go!!
Shipping of course is extra and on you.
Kf6phx
Jonny
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
What is your budget? I would recommend a good quality antenna(Sinclair or DB), and a Kenwood repeater. Of course, good duplexer and LDF450 feedline or equivalent. Stay away from any of the LMR cables. ?You are looking at $5,000+ . You can do it cheaper,
but depending on how much it is being used, going with a commercial grade repeater may be your best choice.?
|
That’s not a bad deal. Of course, the prices I gave were new. It is getting ridiculous what new equipment costs.
Tom
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 7, 2025, at 9:44?AM, Jonny Tomlinson KF6PHX via groups.io <jstlink@...> wrote:
?
Hell...ill sell you a 25 watt gmrs repeater with a tuned duplexer and all double shielded(not lmr400) interconnect cables for $1000!.
I'll sell you a sinclair 4 bay antenna for $400.
I'll sell you 60' of 1/2" hardline with connectors for $200.
Boom!! $1600.....let's go!!
Shipping of course is extra and on you.
Kf6phx
Jonny_,_
|
I have a VHF and UHF repeater on a 27 ft tower. It works pretty good around the valley. Sorry Chris, the bottom of the tower is at 4,170 feet above the valley.
The ski area has their repeaters in a barn out in the valley. They have good hand held coverage all over the mountain, which is all they care about. I don't know what they are using for antennas since they are only interested in mountain coverage. It's one of those situations of getting coverage going up and not going down.
Mick - W7CAT
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io" To: [email protected]Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2025 06:44:34 PM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Reality check on capabilities of GRMS repeater Man if I could put a repeater up on a 3000 ft mountain I'd be happy.. ?
I guess one on a 50 to 100 ft tower at your house would probably be better than what you've got right now.
Chris WB5ITT
WRXZ 789
On Thu, Mar 6, 2025, 3:47 PM wwbgilmore via groups.io > [email protected]> wrote:
I live across a valley from a ski mountain. My house is ~300' above
the valley floor on the edge of a steep hill. Top of the ski mountain is
~3000' above the valley floor. Cell phone coverage on the mountain is
poor. Using FRS or GRMS simplex to meet up with friends / family
works ok but not great. I haven't done extensive testing but I know I can
communicate from some areas of the mountain to my house using (2)
Radioddity GM-30s. If I had a repeater at my house, I'm hoping I
could get better communications on the mountain. Does this seem reasonable?
I've started the research journey on this a couple times before
becoming overwhelmed with opinions.
- I'm new to radio but I have experience in other electronics, machine
tools, etc. With guidance I'm confident I can execute this project
successfully.
- Snow and wind are certainties at this location.
- Initial temporary test would be from a balcony powered from an
outdoor outlet. Initial test would not self ID.
- Improvements could include: roof mounted antenna, self ID, outdoor
electronics enclosure (to reduce lightning risk to house), hardwire
or in use receptacle cover.
My understanding is I need:
- Antenna
- Hardline. Consensus seems to be on LDF4-50A
- Duplexer
- Repeater / radio pair.
I don't have access to radio specific tools but multimeter use,
soldering, desoldering, wiring, mounting, etc. are within my skill set. Thanks
for looking.
-- Untitled Document
|
Hey there - it sounds like I'm a little further along than you in the repeater-installation-journey.
?
I'm in a rural valley in Mendocino California, hilly and forested terrain. There are lots of ham operators in the area, and six local ham repeaters, but very few gmrs operators. I got a $2K grant from the county and I plan on installing two gmrs repeaters on ridges ~ 10 miles away from each other. I have checked mygmrs.com and there are no other gmrs repeaters in the area.
?
After a few hours of research, I recently bought a Retevis 97 repeater, a Retevis MA09 outdoor antenna, a LiFePo battery, 50' of LMR400 cable, and an Opek LP350A Lightning Surge Protector. I'm going to set it up on my property and get it working and then find a local property owner that will let me install it at a higher elevation. I bought two 100 W Renogy 2PCS solar panels and I still need to get the solar panels connected to the battery, and guy wires for the antenna mast and a few other bits.
?
?
Are there any gmrs nets or clubs in your area? Because of the history of wildfires in our region, there are well-established gmrs clubs and repeater networks in Sonoma county, Lake county, El Dorado county, and Santa Clara county and I've learned a lot from their websites and talking to a few folks that were generous with their time.
?
Hope this helps.
?
Ran Bush
WRFV637 / KK6MUX
|
An MMDVM *Modem* board, not a hotspot board.
|
Couple things to keep in mind with all this.? ?Running a high gain antenna with a high HAAT can cause coverage issues in the valley below. Gain in an antenna is accomplished by changing the radiation pattern from equal in all directions to a certain direction in the case of a Yagi or across a single horizontal plane with an onmidirectional.? When you pull the RF down from above it doesn't cause a problem for the most part. But when you pull the radiation from below then there is a hole directly under the antenna.?
|
I'm not sure that you understand what he is wanting to do. He is staying 300 feet above the valley, but wanting to have coverage on the mountain up to 3,000 feet. Opposite of what it looks like you are thinking.
On the other hand, I am at 4,100 feet needing coverage down in to the valley, and that is why I have downtilt.
Mick - W7CAT
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith via groups.io" To: [email protected]Sent: Friday, March 07, 2025 03:17:45 PM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Reality check on capabilities of GRMS repeater Couple things to keep in mind with all this.? ?Running a high gain antenna with a high HAAT can cause coverage issues in the valley below. Gain in an antenna is accomplished by changing the radiation pattern from equal in all directions to a certain direction in the case of a Yagi or across a single horizontal plane with an onmidirectional.? When you pull the RF down from above it doesn't cause a problem for the most part. But when you pull the radiation from below then there is a hole directly under the antenna.
-- Untitled Document
|
Actually it applies in that case as well. Antenna gain woks the same way as mentioned.? He still will want to limit antenna gain and be aware of the antenna radiation pattern and not just stick the highest gain antenna available in the air and call it good.??
|
Based on your description of the site a repeater should work well. If you can mostly see the house from anywhere on the resort it should be fine.
?
Next up is build or buy? Personally I went the "build" route last year and built several ham repeaters out of Motorola CDM radios. I've done both straight FM as well as DMR. But the learning curve is steep and equipment is needed. Some learning was not necessarily expected, such as how to install/configure/use Oracle VirtualBox so I could run Windows XP on a modern laptop so I could run the CPS to program the Motorola mobile radios. And then I had to spend a lot of time figuring out how to disable "VBS and Credential Guard" so that VirtualBox would run with reasonable performance on my modern machine. You'll need a spectrum analyzer to tune the duplexer. You'll want a nano-VNA to check the feedline/connectors/antenna. You'll need crimpers to attach the connectors. You'll want a power meter to check the transmitter.? Lots of little rabbit holes to go down before getting to the end. In the end it took months. But I learned a lot and am happy with the experience.
?
For the controller an MMDVM board with the raspberry pi will do FM. But the audio quality of that solution on FM is not perfect, a little noise gets in there. The MMDVM/rPi is what you'd want for a digital voice mode repeater, but not for FM GMRS. It is also a much more complex solution. For a GMRS repeater I'd use a simple ID-O-Matic board. Cheaper and much much simpler to set up.
?
If you decide to buy then a local radio shop will happily sell you the equipment, program it, tune it, and install it.? Or take up Jonny on his offer, that sounds like a good deal to me.?
?
Larry
?
|
Buy an all in one package ready to go? You got everything and your GMRS license.? Wait you will regret it if you don’t get a very good quality Lightning arrestor & a nice run of copper wire and a couple of ground rods with nice copper nuts to ground things and please remember to ground the hardline LDF 4-50 before the lightning arrestor. ? Bob Mistakes compliments of Siri voice translation?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 7, 2025, at 17:14, Larry N6TXX <misc3@...> wrote:
? Based on your description of the site a repeater should work well. If you can mostly see the house from anywhere on the resort it should be fine.
?
Next up is build or buy? Personally I went the "build" route last year and built several ham repeaters out of Motorola CDM radios. I've done both straight FM as well as DMR. But the learning curve is steep and equipment is needed. Some learning was not necessarily expected, such as how to install/configure/use Oracle VirtualBox so I could run Windows XP on a modern laptop so I could run the CPS to program the Motorola mobile radios. And then I had to spend a lot of time figuring out how to disable "VBS and Credential Guard" so that VirtualBox would run with reasonable performance on my modern machine. You'll need a spectrum analyzer to tune the duplexer. You'll want a nano-VNA to check the feedline/connectors/antenna. You'll need crimpers to attach the connectors. You'll want a power meter to check the transmitter.? Lots of little rabbit holes to go down before getting to the end. In the end it took months. But I learned a lot and am happy with the experience.
?
For the controller an MMDVM board with the raspberry pi will do FM. But the audio quality of that solution on FM is not perfect, a little noise gets in there. The MMDVM/rPi is what you'd want for a digital voice mode repeater, but not for FM GMRS. It is also a much more complex solution. For a GMRS repeater I'd use a simple ID-O-Matic board. Cheaper and much much simpler to set up.
?
If you decide to buy then a local radio shop will happily sell you the equipment, program it, tune it, and install it.? Or take up Jonny on his offer, that sounds like a good deal to me.?
?
Larry
?
|
Larry,
?
I'm trying to build a GMRS repeater using CDM1250 radios, ID-O-Matic IV and one of the inexpensive six bay duplexers. While I'm waiting for the ID-O-Matic delivery, delayed for weather, I quick-shipped an interface cable to me and connected everything. I believe the radios are 'repeating' and I hear audio in the Rx CDM radio when I key-up/use one of the HT's I'm testing the system with BUT I don't get any audio out of the HT's. It seems like I'm getting some COR with the HT's - but no audio/voice. I'm stumped.?
One more thing I just don't understand is the below.?
In red is says 'programmed for pin-8 COR'. Where is pin-8? Is this something I modify in the CPS?
- With two 16 pin rear accessory connectors wired to the controller (one for TX radio, one for RX radio) for plug and play to make an instant repeater from any two compatible Motorola radios (Any Motorola radios with 16 or 20 pin rear accy connector, programmed for pin-8 COR active low (or high changed in programming). For CDM radios, use center 16 pins.
- WITH VOICE AUDIO IDer board wired to and tested with above.
?
How about the below? I don't 'get' what or where these pins are and how to modify them if needed and unfortunately, I don't have anyone to help me with this. I hope you, or someone on the thread, can & will help me muddle through this. When I 'get it' and I'm sure I understand it all, I will create a .pdf guide with pictures and explanations to help the next person who attempts it. I'm freshly retired, have a lot of time to do these things now and this is one I had 'shelved' for when I had the time..? Thanks in advance. gregg at wardlow.org
Gregg N4RGW - WQLY786
Motorola radios using 16 or 20 pin rear accy connector?pins
TX radio pins:
Pin 2 Mic Hi (audio in) (WHITE to pin 11 IDOM4)
Pin 3 PTT active low (GREEN to pin 3 IDOM4)
Pin 7 Ground (BLACK to pin 1 or 12?IDOM4)
RX radio pins:
Pin 7 Ground (BLACK to pin 1 or 12 IDOM4)
Pin 8 COR (active low is default for IDOM4) (BLUE?to pin 7 IDOM4)
Pin 11 discriminator audio out (YELLOW to pin 8 IDOM4)
Pin 13 +12 vdc (this is where IDOM4 gets its power) (RED to pin 2 IDOM4)
|
Thanks for the input everyone!
?
Tom - I'm willing to spend some money.? If I can tiptoe into it so much the better.? Ideally I don't need to replace the antenna once I get it on the roof.
?
Jonny - I'm interested.? I'll send you a message.
?
Ran - I haven't found any one interested in radio around here but I'll look again.
?
Larry - I'm fine building but I'm not too interested in going down the rabbit hole of radio at the moment.? I have several other interests that scratch that itch for now.? For the first phase I'm not going to ID and just use it with my family on one license.? Once that is proved out I'll probably open it up to friends and maybe the general public.
?
?
|
Hi Will G,
I don't know if this has been discussed much, but are most of the communications going to be coming from a point local at the bottom of the hill to the repeater to a point on the hill??? I think you mentioned that simplex works somewhat.?? If you improve your antenna that you are using for simplex, you may not need a repeater.?? And, importantly, don't expect that because it is a repeater, that you will magically get more range that you did with simplex from base to portable.?? It's very possible you could get the exact same range or even less.?? If most of the communications come from base to portable, just work on improving the base antenna (possibly to a beam antenna).??
IMHO,
Andy WJ9J
Thanks for the input everyone!
?
Tom - I'm willing to spend some money.? If I can tiptoe into it so much the better.? Ideally I don't need to replace the antenna once I get it on the roof.
?
Jonny - I'm interested.? I'll send you a message.
?
Ran - I haven't found any one interested in radio around here but I'll look again.
?
Larry - I'm fine building but I'm not too interested in going down the rabbit hole of radio at the moment.? I have several other interests that scratch that itch for now.? For the first phase I'm not going to ID and just use it with my family on one license.? Once that is proved out I'll probably open it up to friends and maybe the general public.
?
?
|
I don't believe his interest is from the bottom of the mountain to the base. I think what he is trying to accomplish is communications between users on the mountain and using a repeater out from the bottom to help the users who are up there.
I don't do anything with GMRS, but from one of your other recent emails "I'm not going to ID and just use it with my family on one license." I would think you will still have to identify.
Mick - W7CAT
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "wj9jrg via groups.io" To: [email protected]Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 09:55:09 AM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Reality check on capabilities of GRMS repeater Hi Will G,
I don't know if this has been discussed much, but are most of the
communications going to be coming from a point local at the bottom of the hill to the repeater to a point on the hill? I think you mentioned that
simplex works somewhat. If you improve your antenna that you are using
for simplex, you may not need a repeater. And, importantly, don't expect
that because it is a repeater, that you will magically get more range that you did with simplex from base to portable. It's very possible you could
get the exact same range or even less. If most of the communications come from base to portable, just work on improving the base antenna (possibly to a beam antenna).
IMHO,
Andy
WJ9J
On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 10:51?AM Will G via groups.io > [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for the input everyone!
Tom - I'm willing to spend some money. If I can tiptoe into it so much
the better. Ideally I don't need to replace the antenna once I get
it on the roof.
Jonny - I'm interested. I'll send you a message.
Ran - I haven't found any one interested in radio around here but I'll
look again.
Larry - I'm fine building but I'm not too interested in going down the
rabbit hole of radio at the moment. I have several other interests
that scratch that itch for now. For the first phase I'm not going to ID and
just use it with my family on one license. Once that is proved out
I'll probably open it up to friends and maybe the general public.
-- Untitled Document
|
There are conflicting thoughts on this. One could argue that if the user on the HT ids, then that is sufficient for the repeater, since that ID would be retransmitted by the repeater, and heard by anyone listening to the output of the repeater.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 10, 2025, at 11:14?AM, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA) <tarra@...> wrote:
?I don't believe his interest is from the bottom of the mountain to the base. I think what he is trying to accomplish is communications between users on the mountain and using a repeater out from the bottom to help the users who are up there.
I don't do anything with GMRS, but from one of your other recent emails "I'm not going to ID and just use it with my family on one license." I would think you will still have to identify.
Mick - W7CAT
----- Original Message -----
From: "wj9jrg via groups.io"
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 09:55:09 AM
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Reality check on capabilities of GRMS repeater
Hi Will G,
I don't know if this has been discussed much, but are most of the
communications going to be coming from a point local at the bottom of the
hill to the repeater to a point on the hill? I think you mentioned that
simplex works somewhat. If you improve your antenna that you are using
for simplex, you may not need a repeater. And, importantly, don't expect
that because it is a repeater, that you will magically get more range that
you did with simplex from base to portable. It's very possible you could
get the exact same range or even less. If most of the communications come
from base to portable, just work on improving the base antenna (possibly to
a beam antenna).
IMHO,
Andy
WJ9J
On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 10:51?AM Will G via groups.io > [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for the input everyone!
Tom - I'm willing to spend some money. If I can tiptoe into it so much
the better. Ideally I don't need to replace the antenna once I get it on
the roof.
Jonny - I'm interested. I'll send you a message.
Ran - I haven't found any one interested in radio around here but I'll
look again.
Larry - I'm fine building but I'm not too interested in going down the
rabbit hole of radio at the moment. I have several other interests that
scratch that itch for now. For the first phase I'm not going to ID and
just use it with my family on one license. Once that is proved out I'll
probably open it up to friends and maybe the general public.
--
Untitled Document
|
Chris Boone WB5ITT
OliverKrystal
Randolph Bush
Keith
Gregg