|
Is it better to use a bulkhead like this to run cable through concrete block or run a tube with heliax? ?We are in an area where we have small critter problems like lizards and mice.
Thanks and Happy turkey day!!!!
|
Lewis,
You can cut a hole in the concrete (I assume you are talking about the foundation)? then install ABS pipe, which is rugged.
If the wife objects on the color, and you want to use the white PVC use the heavy thickness of schedule 40 or 80.? A third choice is the "gray stuff" electrical pipe, again use the heavy thickness type.
I've done all three type and settled on the later, because of it's neutral color.? My wife does not care on the color.
Next, seal the (little) space between the pipe's outer surface and the concrete walls (hole).? When you have installed all the lines you can seal it with foam (cheap) way or the correct way are "donuts" around the lines.
There's a lot of slang around the amateur community.? "Heliax" is just a brand of hard-line so be aware there are other ones out there.?? Full copper jacket is all well and fine, but sounds like a little overkill for your station at home???
Unless you are concerned about coupling from one line to another.?? With that thought in mind how many line runs are you planning?
As with any install, plan ahead for expansion. It's like a hard drive, if you think you need a 100GB, get a 200. ?
If you are following R-56 standards and want surge protection you can install protectors, called SPDs (surge protection device) and there are different brands out there.? ?
The line would come into the house/shop and within a few inches install the SPDs. Also, they need to be grounded to something well.? Don't rely on water pipes and such.??
Lighting protection is the process of "managing" a million volts down to a few kilovolts; something you can work with.? You want all the equipment to rise and fall at the same potential.? This is speaking in a few microseconds.
There are other points to ground from the tower, but it's in the manual.
That's the short story; the R-56 manual is huge and could take you a year to understand however it's the world standard on this subject.
I hope that helps.
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
|
Don't ever use that garbage.? Buy proper entry port, cushions, and boots.? They are readily available from Tessco.? Below is a 2-port 4" entry port I used at my repeater site.? Use a masonry hole saw to cut the holes then mount and seal this plate.? Get cushions appropriate for the cable size and number of cables used.? Below are some examples.? Remember you should have a ground kit on each cable outside of this port bonded to your EGB and a PolyPhaser on the inside bonded to your MBB/MGB - so installing this should be as easy as pushing 1 ft of cable through the port, installing the cushion and boot, tightening it up, and connecting the coax to the PolyPhaser.? Make sure you leave the provided rubber port covers on any unused entry ports.? Whatever you do, DO NOT do the hack thing and try to turn a port cover into a boot/cushion.? I have seen this too many times when idiots take a utility knife and just cut a hole - then they may try to seal it with Butyl which dries out and falls off over time.? None of this stuff is that expensive - just buy the right parts.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
|
Is it better to use a bulkhead like this to run cable through concrete block or run a tube with heliax? You didn't say what the intended use was (HF rig, VHF/UHF rig, repeater, ???), but generally speaking, you do NOT want to use any kind of extended-length UHF bulkhead feedthrough like that. The impedance of any "UHF" device is quite a ways off 50 ohms, typically in the 30-40 ohm range depending on dielectric. A 4-inch bulkhead would effectively be a 35 ohm Q-section on 440 - your 50 ohm antenna would become a 25 ohm load (2:1 VSWR) as seen by your radio. Again, I don't know all of the details of your installation, but my first instinct whenever running cables through a wall is to use a Microflect port... --- Jeff WN3A -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
|
Well, I feel silly. I only looked at the pic of the eBay listing and ASSumed those were UHF bulkheads. After I sent the email I went to close the eBay browser window and saw they say they are type N, not UHF. I've never seen, let alone measured, an extended-length type N bulkhead like that; lacking any data I'd stay away from them. I'm quite certain that none of the well-known and reputable manufacturers make extended-length type N bulkheads.
--- Jeff WN3A
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf
Of Jeff DePolo WN3A
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 12:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Bulkheads
Is it better to use a bulkhead like this to run cable through concrete block or run a tube with heliax?
You didn't say what the intended use was (HF rig, VHF/UHF rig, repeater,
???), but generally speaking, you do NOT want to use any kind of extended-
length UHF bulkhead feedthrough like that. The impedance of any "UHF"
device is quite a ways off 50 ohms, typically in the 30-40 ohm range
depending on dielectric. A 4-inch bulkhead would effectively be a 35 ohm Q-
section on 440 - your 50 ohm antenna would become a 25 ohm load (2:1
VSWR) as seen by your radio.
Again, I don't know all of the details of your installation, but my first instinct
whenever running cables through a wall is to use a Microflect port...
--- Jeff WN3A
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
|
When in the cell industry, the cell sites used the large hole bulkhead entry points for the coax and GPS cables.? One of the ports at one cell site did not have the boot on it and I had the <redacted> scared out of me when I opened the building's door and a bird flew into my face.?
After that, to keep the critters out, a 'critter proof' expanding foam (bought at Granger, but i've seen it at the big box home improvement stores as well) was squirted into the bulkhead "pipe" after the cables were installed, and then the boot placed over that. The foam wasn't too bad to remove if the cable needed to be changed.
Eric WB6TIX
|
Hello Lewis,
Do not use those "connectors" on anything above HF if at all.? They are a waste of good money!? We purchased an assortment of the various lengths.? Ran them through the RF lab and found them to be so bad we tossed them in the junk.? We cut one of the short ones up and found a spring connecting the two center pins!?
If it's not Amphenol, Kings, etc. I don't use it!? Save your radio finals, use good connectors.? I also do not use UHF connectors on anything if I can help it.? Too lossy, poor connection, etc.? I use N or better at home.
A PVC rain tight box outside with a PVC pipe through the wall to another PVC pull box inside with Poly-phasers as others have suggested is highly recommended.? Ground rods outside with each cable grounded to as others have recommended is the way to go especially since you live in Florida where lightning is the heaviest in the world!?? You can also put the Poly-phasers in the outside pull box on a copper busbar and eliminate the inside box.? Just bring in a heavy ground line too and ground all your equipment to it.? A short busbar with a dozen or so holes works great.? All depends on the size of your station and the number of antennas.
DX engineering has everything you need.? Their PCV boxes, ground bars, lightning arrestors, etc are of high quality and have reasonable prices.? If you know someone with a commercial account with Tessco or Hutton better yet.
Do it right, do it once.? Not to mention protect your equipment and house from lightning as much as possible!? And if it looks good, the XYL may not mind it too!
73, Shanon KA8SPW
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 11:38 AM Lewis Horn < hornl@...> wrote: Is it better to use a bulkhead like this to run cable through concrete block or run a tube with heliax?? We are in an area where we have small critter problems like lizards and mice.
Thanks and Happy turkey day!!!!
|
In my opinion...
NO!
That's what calking is for.
These things have horrible return loss figures.
73, Jim W7RY
On 11/24/2022 10:38 AM, Lewis Horn
wrote:
Is it better to use a bulkhead like this to run cable through
concrete block or run a tube with heliax? ?We are in an area where
we have small critter problems like lizards and mice.
Thanks and Happy turkey day!!!!
KD6YTS?
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
These are 100% totally overboard for a home.
Use a 2" pvc conduit sleeve (or large enough to pass your current
and future needs) through the wall of you home.
73, Jim W7RY
On 11/24/2022 11:31 AM, Dan Woodie
wrote:
Don't ever use that garbage.? Buy proper entry port, cushions, and
boots.? They are readily available from Tessco.? Below is a 2-port
4" entry port I used at my repeater site.? Use a masonry hole saw
to cut the holes then mount and seal this plate.? Get cushions
appropriate for the cable size and number of cables used.? Below
are some examples.? Remember you should have a ground kit on each
cable outside of this port bonded to your EGB and a PolyPhaser on
the inside bonded to your MBB/MGB - so installing this should be
as easy as pushing 1 ft of cable through the port, installing the
cushion and boot, tightening it up, and connecting the coax to the
PolyPhaser.? Make sure you leave the provided rubber port covers
on any unused entry ports.? Whatever you do, DO NOT do the hack
thing and try to turn a port cover into a boot/cushion.? I have
seen this too many times when idiots take a utility knife and just
cut a hole - then they may try to seal it with Butyl which dries
out and falls off over time.? None of this stuff is that expensive
- just buy the right parts.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Where we haven't had room to install a cable port entry we have used a waterproof Cable Gland. See the below link for photo of what they look like.
They can be mounted on a small square piece of aluminum plate stock. You end up with sort of a mini cable port entry that is waterproof (and rodent/insect proof too).
They come in metal and plastic. We have used the metal ones.
<>
Joe
|
This is Repeater-builder and there was no mention of a home - therefore it was assumed - and still is - that this solution is intended for a repeater site.??
I also disagree that this solution is inappropriate for a home.? A single or double port plate is much better looking than the hacked solutions many come up with.? ?Whatever you do, DO NOT use foam (great stuff, etc) to seal an entry.? This stuff decays very quickly when exposed to weather and mice and other small rodents will chew through it very quickly.
Thanks,
Dan Woodie, CETsr KC8ZUM
These are 100% totally overboard for a home.
Use a 2" pvc conduit sleeve (or large enough to pass your current
and future needs) through the wall of you home.
73, Jim W7RY
On 11/24/2022 11:31 AM, Dan Woodie
wrote:
Don't ever use that garbage.? Buy proper entry port, cushions, and
boots.? They are readily available from Tessco.? Below is a 2-port
4" entry port I used at my repeater site.? Use a masonry hole saw
to cut the holes then mount and seal this plate.? Get cushions
appropriate for the cable size and number of cables used.? Below
are some examples.? Remember you should have a ground kit on each
cable outside of this port bonded to your EGB and a PolyPhaser on
the inside bonded to your MBB/MGB - so installing this should be
as easy as pushing 1 ft of cable through the port, installing the
cushion and boot, tightening it up, and connecting the coax to the
PolyPhaser.? Make sure you leave the provided rubber port covers
on any unused entry ports.? Whatever you do, DO NOT do the hack
thing and try to turn a port cover into a boot/cushion.? I have
seen this too many times when idiots take a utility knife and just
cut a hole - then they may try to seal it with Butyl which dries
out and falls off over time.? None of this stuff is that expensive
- just buy the right parts.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Hi Dan,
Actually my repeater site is in my home. ?I should have specified that. ?I run a 70cm repeater and wanted to upgrade to hardline from the duplexer to the outside with a lightning arrestor to the antenna.
Thanks
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Nov 25, 2022, at 4:53 AM, Dan Woodie <kc8zum@...> wrote:
? This is Repeater-builder and there was no mention of a home - therefore it was assumed - and still is - that this solution is intended for a repeater site.??
I also disagree that this solution is inappropriate for a home.? A single or double port plate is much better looking than the hacked solutions many come up with.? ?Whatever you do, DO NOT use foam (great stuff, etc) to seal an entry.? This stuff decays very quickly when exposed to weather and mice and other small rodents will chew through it very quickly.
Thanks,
Dan Woodie, CETsr KC8ZUM
These are 100% totally overboard for a home.
Use a 2" pvc conduit sleeve (or large enough to pass your current
and future needs) through the wall of you home.
73, Jim W7RY
On 11/24/2022 11:31 AM, Dan Woodie
wrote:
Don't ever use that garbage.? Buy proper entry port, cushions, and
boots.? They are readily available from Tessco.? Below is a 2-port
4" entry port I used at my repeater site.? Use a masonry hole saw
to cut the holes then mount and seal this plate.? Get cushions
appropriate for the cable size and number of cables used.? Below
are some examples.? Remember you should have a ground kit on each
cable outside of this port bonded to your EGB and a PolyPhaser on
the inside bonded to your MBB/MGB - so installing this should be
as easy as pushing 1 ft of cable through the port, installing the
cushion and boot, tightening it up, and connecting the coax to the
PolyPhaser.? Make sure you leave the provided rubber port covers
on any unused entry ports.? Whatever you do, DO NOT do the hack
thing and try to turn a port cover into a boot/cushion.? I have
seen this too many times when idiots take a utility knife and just
cut a hole - then they may try to seal it with Butyl which dries
out and falls off over time.? None of this stuff is that expensive
- just buy the right parts.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
If you are only going to put a surge suppressor on the feedline you
will have wasted your money. It takes more than that. Powerline
protection, single-point grounding panel, and protection to anything
else the repeater is connected to (Internet, phone line, etc.).
Chuck
WB2EDV
On 11/25/2022 5:56 AM, Lewis Horn
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Dan,
Actually my repeater site is in my home. ?I should have
specified that. ?I run a 70cm repeater and wanted to upgrade to
hardline from the duplexer to the outside with a lightning
arrestor to the antenna.
Thanks
Lewis
?
This is Repeater-builder and there was no
mention of a home - therefore it was assumed - and still
is - that this solution is intended for a repeater site.??
I also disagree that this solution is
inappropriate for a home.? A single or double port plate
is much better looking than the hacked solutions many
come up with.? ?Whatever you do, DO NOT use foam (great
stuff, etc) to seal an entry.? This stuff decays very
quickly when exposed to weather and mice and other small
rodents will chew through it very quickly.
Thanks,
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
These are 100% totally overboard for a
home.
Use a 2" pvc conduit sleeve (or large enough to pass
your current and future needs) through the wall of you
home.
73, Jim W7RY
On 11/24/2022 11:31 AM, Dan Woodie wrote:
Don't ever use that garbage.?
Buy proper entry port, cushions, and boots.? They
are readily available from Tessco.? Below is a
2-port 4" entry port I used at my repeater site.?
Use a masonry hole saw to cut the holes then mount
and seal this plate.? Get cushions appropriate for
the cable size and number of cables used.? Below are
some examples.? Remember you should have a ground
kit on each cable outside of this port bonded to
your EGB and a PolyPhaser on the inside bonded to
your MBB/MGB - so installing this should be as easy
as pushing 1 ft of cable through the port,
installing the cushion and boot, tightening it up,
and connecting the coax to the PolyPhaser.? Make
sure you leave the provided rubber port covers on
any unused entry ports.? Whatever you do, DO NOT do
the hack thing and try to turn a port cover into a
boot/cushion.? I have seen this too many times when
idiots take a utility knife and just cut a hole -
then they may try to seal it with Butyl which dries
out and falls off over time.? None of this stuff is
that expensive - just buy the right parts.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
May be a little off-track, home vs "radio site."??
For my ad-hoc "entrance panel" I went to a local metal salvage/stock yard and acquired a 24" long x 2" wide strip of 1/8" brass.? Cost me maybe $20.
Drilled it out to hold several various protection bulkheads (12-13) and mounted it under the eave of the garage/office/shack structure.?
Bonded it to the station ground at the base of the tower 8 feet below.? Every feedline from the tower and a few off-tower wire antennas have drip-loops then 'meet' the panel before feedline enters the structure.? Most of the feedlines coming off the tower are 1/2" hardline or Superflex, only a couple runs of 'RG-8' with silver-plated N.??
It's a 'hack', not pretty, XYL tolerates it hidden behind a decorative panel around the lower 8 feet of tower (because it's also amid the pool patio)?
Fortunately, Silicon Valley, where we don't have severe weather or much moisture and we've never had little furry critters. After 3-1/2 years fortunately no corrosion or connection issues.? As well the station ground is run to a bus inside the shack top which everything is individually bonded. If a different environment I'd probably have to re-create it in some form of 'small' outdoor cabinet and deal with a lot more weatherproofing.
Also hosting a local 440 repeater, in addition to HF, a variety of "dual-band" rigs, and a couple of the antennas run to the bench for test purposes.?
|
If interested I have some Andrew type 40656A-3 wall/roof feed thru new in box.? View the URL below for details.? These are for a single run of 1/2 LDF.?
QRZ dot com for address / Email address.? 73 Bruce, W3YVV?
|
:) Dan
Jim W7RY
?CET Ma
On 11/25/2022 4:56 AM, Lewis Horn
wrote:
Hi Dan,
Actually my repeater site is in my home. ?I should have
specified that. ?I run a 70cm repeater and wanted to upgrade to
hardline from the duplexer to the outside with a lightning
arrestor to the antenna.
Thanks
Lewis
?
This is Repeater-builder and there was no
mention of a home - therefore it was assumed - and still
is - that this solution is intended for a repeater site.??
I also disagree that this solution is
inappropriate for a home.? A single or double port plate
is much better looking than the hacked solutions many
come up with.? ?Whatever you do, DO NOT use foam (great
stuff, etc) to seal an entry.? This stuff decays very
quickly when exposed to weather and mice and other small
rodents will chew through it very quickly.
Thanks,
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
These are 100% totally overboard for a
home.
Use a 2" pvc conduit sleeve (or large enough to pass
your current and future needs) through the wall of you
home.
73, Jim W7RY
On 11/24/2022 11:31 AM, Dan Woodie wrote:
Don't ever use that garbage.?
Buy proper entry port, cushions, and boots.? They
are readily available from Tessco.? Below is a
2-port 4" entry port I used at my repeater site.?
Use a masonry hole saw to cut the holes then mount
and seal this plate.? Get cushions appropriate for
the cable size and number of cables used.? Below are
some examples.? Remember you should have a ground
kit on each cable outside of this port bonded to
your EGB and a PolyPhaser on the inside bonded to
your MBB/MGB - so installing this should be as easy
as pushing 1 ft of cable through the port,
installing the cushion and boot, tightening it up,
and connecting the coax to the PolyPhaser.? Make
sure you leave the provided rubber port covers on
any unused entry ports.? Whatever you do, DO NOT do
the hack thing and try to turn a port cover into a
boot/cushion.? I have seen this too many times when
idiots take a utility knife and just cut a hole -
then they may try to seal it with Butyl which dries
out and falls off over time.? None of this stuff is
that expensive - just buy the right parts.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Dan,
This is the way we did it for LDF4-50 Heliax, because I did not wish to place holes in the siding. The poured concrete foundation is 10 inches thick, so a 3/4" hammer drill was rented. There is just enough room for several parallel runs of tinned copper braid to go between the Heliax polyethylene jacket and the ID of the concrete hole through the concrete foundation. These straps go from the Polyphaser just inside the basement wall (that is grounded to the duplexer, radio cabinet, etc with much wider straps inside the basement). I probably should have rented a 1" drill to allow for thicker straps. The Heliax travels? inside buried conduit and the Heliax corregated copper shield? grounded at the antenna end and to an outside perimeter ground at the house end. At the house end, the straps from the repeater are bonded just outside the foundation to #4 solid copper wire that connects to the perimeter ground consisting of 8 ft ground rods and more #4 copper wire.. Grey silicon caulk seals the perimeter of the opening inside and outside the house. If the house is sold, just fill in the hole with hydrological cement. Possibly someone will say we risk an exploded foundation with a direct hit, but there is a ton of underground bonding out of sight, so my thoughts are the strike will be much attenuated before getting to the foundation????
John W1GPO
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11/25/2022 4:40 PM Jim W7RY via groups.io <jimw7ry@...> wrote:
:) Dan
Jim W7RY
?CET Ma
On 11/25/2022 4:56 AM, Lewis Horn wrote:
Hi Dan,
Actually my repeater site is in my home. ?I should have specified that. ?I run a 70cm repeater and wanted to upgrade to hardline from the duplexer to the outside with a lightning arrestor to the antenna.
Thanks
Lewis
This is Repeater-builder and there was no mention of a home - therefore it was assumed - and still is - that this solution is intended for a repeater site.??
I also disagree that this solution is inappropriate for a home.? A single or double port plate is much better looking than the hacked solutions many come up with.? ?Whatever you do, DO NOT use foam (great stuff, etc) to seal an entry.? This stuff decays very quickly when exposed to weather and mice and other small rodents will chew through it very quickly.
Thanks,
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
These are 100% totally overboard for a home.
Use a 2" pvc conduit sleeve (or large enough to pass your current and future needs) through the wall of you home.
73, Jim W7RY
On 11/24/2022 11:31 AM, Dan Woodie wrote:
Don't ever use that garbage.? Buy proper entry port, cushions, and boots.? They are readily available from Tessco.? Below is a 2-port 4" entry port I used at my repeater site.? Use a masonry hole saw to cut the holes then mount and seal this plate.? Get cushions appropriate for the cable size and number of cables used.? Below are some examples.? Remember you should have a ground kit on each cable outside of this port bonded to your EGB and a PolyPhaser on the inside bonded to your MBB/MGB - so installing this should be as easy as pushing 1 ft of cable through the port, installing the cushion and boot, tightening it up, and connecting the coax to the PolyPhaser.? Make sure you leave the provided rubber port covers on any unused entry ports.? Whatever you do, DO NOT do the hack thing and try to turn a port cover into a boot/cushion.? I have seen this too many times when idiots take a utility knife and just cut a hole - then they may try to seal it with Butyl which dries out and falls off over time.? None of this stuff is that expensive - just buy the right parts.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
This may not have gone through to RB the first time , so forwarded again today. John.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
---------- Original Message ----------
From: JOHN HASERICK <jhaserick84@...>
Date: 11/25/2022 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Bulkheads
Dan,
This is the way we did it for LDF4-50 Heliax, because I did not wish to place holes in the siding. The poured concrete foundation is 10 inches thick, so a 3/4" hammer drill was rented. There is just enough room for several parallel runs of tinned copper braid to go between the Heliax polyethylene jacket and the ID of the concrete hole through the concrete foundation. These straps go from the Polyphaser just inside the basement wall (that is grounded to the duplexer, radio cabinet, etc with much wider straps inside the basement). I probably should have rented a 1" drill to allow for thicker straps. The Heliax travels? inside buried conduit and the Heliax corregated copper shield? grounded at the antenna end and to an outside perimeter ground at the house end. At the house end, the straps from the repeater are bonded just outside the foundation to #4 solid copper wire that connects to the perimeter ground consisting of 8 ft ground rods and more #4 copper wire.. Grey silicon caulk seals the perimeter of the opening inside and outside the house. If the house is sold, just fill in the hole with hydrological cement. Possibly someone will say we risk an exploded foundation with a direct hit, but there is a ton of underground bonding out of sight, so my thoughts are the strike will be much attenuated before getting to the foundation????
John W1GPO
On 11/25/2022 4:40 PM Jim W7RY via groups.io <jimw7ry@...> wrote:
:) Dan
Jim W7RY
?CET Ma
On 11/25/2022 4:56 AM, Lewis Horn wrote:
Hi Dan,
Actually my repeater site is in my home. ?I should have specified that. ?I run a 70cm repeater and wanted to upgrade to hardline from the duplexer to the outside with a lightning arrestor to the antenna.
Thanks
Lewis
This is Repeater-builder and there was no mention of a home - therefore it was assumed - and still is - that this solution is intended for a repeater site.??
I also disagree that this solution is inappropriate for a home.? A single or double port plate is much better looking than the hacked solutions many come up with.? ?Whatever you do, DO NOT use foam (great stuff, etc) to seal an entry.? This stuff decays very quickly when exposed to weather and mice and other small rodents will chew through it very quickly.
Thanks,
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
These are 100% totally overboard for a home.
Use a 2" pvc conduit sleeve (or large enough to pass your current and future needs) through the wall of you home.
73, Jim W7RY
On 11/24/2022 11:31 AM, Dan Woodie wrote:
Don't ever use that garbage.? Buy proper entry port, cushions, and boots.? They are readily available from Tessco.? Below is a 2-port 4" entry port I used at my repeater site.? Use a masonry hole saw to cut the holes then mount and seal this plate.? Get cushions appropriate for the cable size and number of cables used.? Below are some examples.? Remember you should have a ground kit on each cable outside of this port bonded to your EGB and a PolyPhaser on the inside bonded to your MBB/MGB - so installing this should be as easy as pushing 1 ft of cable through the port, installing the cushion and boot, tightening it up, and connecting the coax to the PolyPhaser.? Make sure you leave the provided rubber port covers on any unused entry ports.? Whatever you do, DO NOT do the hack thing and try to turn a port cover into a boot/cushion.? I have seen this too many times when idiots take a utility knife and just cut a hole - then they may try to seal it with Butyl which dries out and falls off over time.? None of this stuff is that expensive - just buy the right parts.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
John,
It went through the first time.??
Based on that photo a standard 4" port would have worked just fine as the location is pretty much hidden and the ports actually look pretty decent when installed properly.? A 1" or larger masonry hole saw would have cut a nice clean hole for your needs and if you ever moved you just put the cover on the port and tell the new buyer it is a cable pass-through that can be used for whatever they want - or easily re-sealed with concrete/mortar.? Braided cable is specifically disallowed by R56 as it tends to cause PIM and when outdoors it corrodes and deteriorates very quickly.? The proper method to ground a UL-Listed ground bar (required by NEC - no home-made stuff allowed) is by use of 2 AWG or larger solid Copper connected to one or more ground rods that provide 10 ohms or less resistance to ground.? Depending on your soil one may be enough.? ?In some areas it could take 10 or more.? Those ground rods should be bonded to the ground rods with exothermic welds (Cadweld) which do not have the corrosion issues that clamps do and provide a better bond.? I personally installed 5 x 8' 5/8" Copper Plated Steel ground rods connected with 2 AWG solid copper at my home last week to supplement the existing ground rod and water pipe bond.? They are placed 8 ft away from the foundation and 16 ft from each other to provide optimal performance.? The new ground system had a resistance to ground of 5.4 ohms after the first 3 rods were installed and a final resistance to ground of 2.7 ohms which is very good.? This was measured using an AEMC 6416 which is the device of choice for this measurement based on the 2017 R56.
Dan Woodie, CETsr KC8ZUM
This may not have gone through to RB the first time , so forwarded again today. John.
---------- Original Message ----------
Date: 11/25/2022 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Bulkheads
Dan,
This is the way we did it for LDF4-50 Heliax, because I did not wish to place holes in the siding. The poured concrete foundation is 10 inches thick, so a 3/4" hammer drill was rented. There is just enough room for several parallel runs of tinned copper braid to go between the Heliax polyethylene jacket and the ID of the concrete hole through the concrete foundation. These straps go from the Polyphaser just inside the basement wall (that is grounded to the duplexer, radio cabinet, etc with much wider straps inside the basement). I probably should have rented a 1" drill to allow for thicker straps. The Heliax travels? inside buried conduit and the Heliax corregated copper shield? grounded at the antenna end and to an outside perimeter ground at the house end. At the house end, the straps from the repeater are bonded just outside the foundation to #4 solid copper wire that connects to the perimeter ground consisting of 8 ft ground rods and more #4 copper wire.. Grey silicon caulk seals the perimeter of the opening inside and outside the house. If the house is sold, just fill in the hole with hydrological cement. Possibly someone will say we risk an exploded foundation with a direct hit, but there is a ton of underground bonding out of sight, so my thoughts are the strike will be much attenuated before getting to the foundation????
John W1GPO
:) Dan
Jim W7RY
?CET Ma
On 11/25/2022 4:56 AM, Lewis Horn wrote:
Hi Dan,
Actually my repeater site is in my home.? I should have specified that.? I run a 70cm repeater and wanted to upgrade to hardline from the duplexer to the outside with a lightning arrestor to the antenna.
Thanks
Lewis
This is Repeater-builder and there was no mention of a home - therefore it was assumed - and still is - that this solution is intended for a repeater site.??
I also disagree that this solution is inappropriate for a home.? A single or double port plate is much better looking than the hacked solutions many come up with.? ?Whatever you do, DO NOT use foam (great stuff, etc) to seal an entry.? This stuff decays very quickly when exposed to weather and mice and other small rodents will chew through it very quickly.
Thanks,
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
These are 100% totally overboard for a home.
Use a 2" pvc conduit sleeve (or large enough to pass your current and future needs) through the wall of you home.
73, Jim W7RY
On 11/24/2022 11:31 AM, Dan Woodie wrote:
Don't ever use that garbage.? Buy proper entry port, cushions, and boots.? They are readily available from Tessco.? Below is a 2-port 4" entry port I used at my repeater site.? Use a masonry hole saw to cut the holes then mount and seal this plate.? Get cushions appropriate for the cable size and number of cables used.? Below are some examples.? Remember you should have a ground kit on each cable outside of this port bonded to your EGB and a PolyPhaser on the inside bonded to your MBB/MGB - so installing this should be as easy as pushing 1 ft of cable through the port, installing the cushion and boot, tightening it up, and connecting the coax to the PolyPhaser.? Make sure you leave the provided rubber port covers on any unused entry ports.? Whatever you do, DO NOT do the hack thing and try to turn a port cover into a boot/cushion.? I have seen this too many times when idiots take a utility knife and just cut a hole - then they may try to seal it with Butyl which dries out and falls off over time.? None of this stuff is that expensive - just buy the right parts.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Thanks for the advice, Dan. I think our antenna end may have a big fat braided strap from the ground rod to the Heliax connector, so that will definitely have to go, because? it has been? at least partially buried for at least 3 yrs, and there WAS an? intermod desense issue in that area that I had instead attributed to the flexible braided coax? that attached to the buried Heliax where it terminated about 1 ft above ground at the antenna end!
The only concrete saw I have heard of is circular and has a diamond blade. These rentable heavy duty hammer drills make short work going through 10" of concrete, as long as it does not hit a large stone, but do make a mess with the resulting concrete dust.
John W1GPO
On 11/28/2022 3:53 PM Dan Woodie <kc8zum@...> wrote:
John,
It went through the first time.??
Based on that photo a standard 4" port would have worked just fine as the location is pretty much hidden and the ports actually look pretty decent when installed properly.? A 1" or larger masonry hole saw would have cut a nice clean hole for your needs and if you ever moved you just put the cover on the port and tell the new buyer it is a cable pass-through that can be used for whatever they want - or easily re-sealed with concrete/mortar.? Braided cable is specifically disallowed by R56 as it tends to cause PIM and when outdoors it corrodes and deteriorates very quickly.? The proper method to ground a UL-Listed ground bar (required by NEC - no home-made stuff allowed) is by use of 2 AWG or larger solid Copper connected to one or more ground rods that provide 10 ohms or less resistance to ground.? Depending on your soil one may be enough.? ?In some areas it could take 10 or more.? Those ground rods should be bonded to the ground rods with exothermic welds (Cadweld) which do not have the corrosion issues that clamps do and provide a better bond.? I personally installed 5 x 8' 5/8" Copper Plated Steel ground rods connected with 2 AWG solid copper at my home last week to supplement the existing ground rod and water pipe bond.? They are placed 8 ft away from the foundation and 16 ft from each other to provide optimal performance.? The new ground system had a resistance to ground of 5.4 ohms after the first 3 rods were installed and a final resistance to ground of 2.7 ohms which is very good.? This was measured using an AEMC 6416 which is the device of choice for this measurement based on the 2017 R56.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
This may not have gone through to RB the first time , so forwarded again today. John.
---------- Original Message ----------
Date: 11/25/2022 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Bulkheads
Dan,
This is the way we did it for LDF4-50 Heliax, because I did not wish to place holes in the siding. The poured concrete foundation is 10 inches thick, so a 3/4" hammer drill was rented. There is just enough room for several parallel runs of tinned copper braid to go between the Heliax polyethylene jacket and the ID of the concrete hole through the concrete foundation. These straps go from the Polyphaser just inside the basement wall (that is grounded to the duplexer, radio cabinet, etc with much wider straps inside the basement). I probably should have rented a 1" drill to allow for thicker straps. The Heliax travels? inside buried conduit and the Heliax corregated copper shield? grounded at the antenna end and to an outside perimeter ground at the house end. At the house end, the straps from the repeater are bonded just outside the foundation to #4 solid copper wire that connects to the perimeter ground consisting of 8 ft ground rods and more #4 copper wire.. Grey silicon caulk seals the perimeter of the opening inside and outside the house. If the house is sold, just fill in the hole with hydrological cement. Possibly someone will say we risk an exploded foundation with a direct hit, but there is a ton of underground bonding out of sight, so my thoughts are the strike will be much attenuated before getting to the foundation????
John W1GPO
:) Dan
Jim W7RY
?CET Ma
On 11/25/2022 4:56 AM, Lewis Horn wrote:
Hi Dan,
Actually my repeater site is in my home.? I should have specified that.? I run a 70cm repeater and wanted to upgrade to hardline from the duplexer to the outside with a lightning arrestor to the antenna.
Thanks
Lewis
This is Repeater-builder and there was no mention of a home - therefore it was assumed - and still is - that this solution is intended for a repeater site.??
I also disagree that this solution is inappropriate for a home.? A single or double port plate is much better looking than the hacked solutions many come up with.? ?Whatever you do, DO NOT use foam (great stuff, etc) to seal an entry.? This stuff decays very quickly when exposed to weather and mice and other small rodents will chew through it very quickly.
Thanks,
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
These are 100% totally overboard for a home.
Use a 2" pvc conduit sleeve (or large enough to pass your current and future needs) through the wall of you home.
73, Jim W7RY
On 11/24/2022 11:31 AM, Dan Woodie wrote:
Don't ever use that garbage.? Buy proper entry port, cushions, and boots.? They are readily available from Tessco.? Below is a 2-port 4" entry port I used at my repeater site.? Use a masonry hole saw to cut the holes then mount and seal this plate.? Get cushions appropriate for the cable size and number of cables used.? Below are some examples.? Remember you should have a ground kit on each cable outside of this port bonded to your EGB and a PolyPhaser on the inside bonded to your MBB/MGB - so installing this should be as easy as pushing 1 ft of cable through the port, installing the cushion and boot, tightening it up, and connecting the coax to the PolyPhaser.? Make sure you leave the provided rubber port covers on any unused entry ports.? Whatever you do, DO NOT do the hack thing and try to turn a port cover into a boot/cushion.? I have seen this too many times when idiots take a utility knife and just cut a hole - then they may try to seal it with Butyl which dries out and falls off over time.? None of this stuff is that expensive - just buy the right parts.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
|
Karl Shoemaker
