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We are a new ham radio club (RRARC) in TX with currently 60 members living in a 55 and over retirement community.? As you can imagine, we are tightly governed by HOA rules.??
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We are about to install our repeater on the roof of the community clubhouse.? The clubhouse is on a hill with line of sight to the north and east approximately 8 miles.? To the west and south approximately 25 miles.
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Being new, we do not have a repeater pair allocation yet.? Currently we are operating crossband, receiving on 144.650 and transmitting on 441.350.? These are test frequencies until we can get a permanent installation site and do some ERP mappings in order to request a frequency allocation.? Currently we are operating on a dual band antenna using a diplexer and a Yaesu DR-2x repeater.
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Here is the question and our plan.? Since we will get one shot at antenna installation, we plan to install a Kenwood DB-408-B (450) antenna.? It is 8' 5" tall.? We plan to remove the top plug and install an ARX-2b Ringo on top.? It is 12' 5" tall.? We plan to receive on the Ringo and transmit on the DB-408.? This will be a temporary solution until we and do site surveys on both 440 and 2mtr in order to request our allocation.
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Looking for opinions on how well this temporary crossband setup is going to work, using the top antenna for receive and the bottom for transmit with no diplexer since we'll have dual feed lines, and using the vertical stack to negate some desense.? We will be likely using 20 watts.
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TIA
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Bill?
kg5ie
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Bill, 2 meter frequency’s are hard to come by in Texas. You are better off going with UHF. With the height you are stating it will work well.? Have you made the application for a frequency from the txvhf fm society website yet??
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On Mar 31, 2025, at 7:50?AM, Bill Davis AE via groups.io <kg5ie@...> wrote:
? We are a new ham radio club (RRARC) in TX with currently 60 members living in a 55 and over retirement community.? As you can imagine, we are tightly governed by HOA rules.??
?
We are about to install our repeater on the roof of the community clubhouse.? The clubhouse is on a hill with line of sight to the north and east approximately 8 miles.? To the west and south approximately 25 miles.
?
Being new, we do not have a repeater pair allocation yet.? Currently we are operating crossband, receiving on 144.650 and transmitting on 441.350.? These are test frequencies until we can get a permanent installation site and do some ERP mappings in order to request a frequency allocation.? Currently we are operating on a dual band antenna using a diplexer and a Yaesu DR-2x repeater.
?
Here is the question and our plan.? Since we will get one shot at antenna installation, we plan to install a Kenwood DB-408-B (450) antenna.? It is 8' 5" tall.? We plan to remove the top plug and install an ARX-2b Ringo on top.? It is 12' 5" tall.? We plan to receive on the Ringo and transmit on the DB-408.? This will be a temporary solution until we and do site surveys on both 440 and 2mtr in order to request our allocation.
?
Looking for opinions on how well this temporary crossband setup is going to work, using the top antenna for receive and the bottom for transmit with no diplexer since we'll have dual feed lines, and using the vertical stack to negate some desense.? We will be likely using 20 watts.
?
?
TIA
?
Bill?
kg5ie
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In my opinion, the DB408 is a good choice, and the ringo, a bad choice.? What is your plan for permanent frequency?? 440?
Andy Zorca WJ9J
We are a new ham radio club (RRARC) in TX with currently 60 members living in a 55 and over retirement community.? As you can imagine, we are tightly governed by HOA rules.??
?
We are about to install our repeater on the roof of the community clubhouse.? The clubhouse is on a hill with line of sight to the north and east approximately 8 miles.? To the west and south approximately 25 miles.
?
Being new, we do not have a repeater pair allocation yet.? Currently we are operating crossband, receiving on 144.650 and transmitting on 441.350.? These are test frequencies until we can get a permanent installation site and do some ERP mappings in order to request a frequency allocation.? Currently we are operating on a dual band antenna using a diplexer and a Yaesu DR-2x repeater.
?
Here is the question and our plan.? Since we will get one shot at antenna installation, we plan to install a Kenwood DB-408-B (450) antenna.? It is 8' 5" tall.? We plan to remove the top plug and install an ARX-2b Ringo on top.? It is 12' 5" tall.? We plan to receive on the Ringo and transmit on the DB-408.? This will be a temporary solution until we and do site surveys on both 440 and 2mtr in order to request our allocation.
?
Looking for opinions on how well this temporary crossband setup is going to work, using the top antenna for receive and the bottom for transmit with no diplexer since we'll have dual feed lines, and using the vertical stack to negate some desense.? We will be likely using 20 watts.
?
?
TIA
?
Bill?
kg5ie
?
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No, since that requires a permanent site and a site survey.
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bd
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Yes, 440 will be our first choice on frequency allocation.
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bd
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By removing the tip on the DB-408, and putting the Ringo on, you are decreasing the lightning protection.?? Also, by putting the ringo on, you are also inviting lightning.?? I would instead, just install the 408 and be done with it.?? If you want to see the coverage, you can set up an account at and model there for free.
Andy Zorca WJ9J
Yes, 440 will be our first choice on frequency allocation.
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bd
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Get a duplexer and go with the DB408 at the top...don't use LMR cable...get 1/2 in or bigger HELIAX...
Later you could install a remote HF radio to the UHF rptr since you are in a HOA ...would require an external controller like a RLC which can handle many serial controlled radios...I use Kenwood's myself..
Chris WB5ITT
Former BoD and Frequency Coordinator
TXVHFFM Society
By removing the tip on the DB-408, and putting the Ringo on, you are decreasing the lightning protection.?? Also, by putting the ringo on, you are also inviting lightning.?? I would instead, just install the 408 and be done with it.?? If you want to see the coverage, you can set up an account at and model there for free.
Andy Zorca WJ9J
Yes, 440 will be our first choice on frequency allocation.
?
bd
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For temporary, I would just install a Comet GP3? dual band antenna.? We had one at about 250 ft for 30 yrs with no problems in operation.? When our DB224 antenna failed we moved the repeater over to the comet GP3 diplexed with a UHF link and it played just fine for 10 years until we could fund a climb. The replacement for the db224 was a Telewave with both VHF and UHF loops on the same mast. ????? ? John Lock KF0M Kf0m@... ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Davis AE via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2025 7:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [repeater-builder] Antenna Thoughts and Suggestions? We are a new ham radio club (RRARC) in TX with currently 60 members living in a 55 and over retirement community.? As you can imagine, we are tightly governed by HOA rules.?? We are about to install our repeater on the roof of the community clubhouse.? The clubhouse is on a hill with line of sight to the north and east approximately 8 miles.? To the west and south approximately 25 miles. Being new, we do not have a repeater pair allocation yet.? Currently we are operating crossband, receiving on 144.650 and transmitting on 441.350.? These are test frequencies until we can get a permanent installation site and do some ERP mappings in order to request a frequency allocation.? Currently we are operating on a dual band antenna using a diplexer and a Yaesu DR-2x repeater. Here is the question and our plan.? Since we will get one shot at antenna installation, we plan to install a Kenwood DB-408-B (450) antenna.? It is 8' 5" tall.? We plan to remove the top plug and install an ARX-2b Ringo on top.? It is 12' 5" tall.? We plan to receive on the Ringo and transmit on the DB-408.? This will be a temporary solution until we and do site surveys on both 440 and 2mtr in order to request our allocation. Looking for opinions on how well this temporary crossband setup is going to work, using the top antenna for receive and the bottom for transmit with no diplexer since we'll have dual feed lines, and using the vertical stack to negate some desense.? We will be likely using 20 watts.
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If you need more?info or help, email me at my call at att dot net?
Chris WB5ITT?
On Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 9:00 AM Chris Boone WB5ITT via <setxtelecom= [email protected]> wrote: Get a duplexer and go with the DB408 at the top...don't use LMR cable...get 1/2 in or bigger HELIAX...
Later you could install a remote HF radio to the UHF rptr since you are in a HOA ...would require an external controller like a RLC which can handle many serial controlled radios...I use Kenwood's myself..
Chris WB5ITT
Former BoD and Frequency Coordinator
TXVHFFM Society
By removing the tip on the DB-408, and putting the Ringo on, you are decreasing the lightning protection.?? Also, by putting the ringo on, you are also inviting lightning.?? I would instead, just install the 408 and be done with it.?? If you want to see the coverage, you can set up an account at and model there for free.
Andy Zorca WJ9J
Yes, 440 will be our first choice on frequency allocation.
?
bd
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This evening, once again, I tried Radio Mobile. I tried it a few years ago at the request of the frequency coordinator in eastern Idaho. And again this evening with similar results. If only I had the coverage it shows. It is nothing close to what I really have. It shows coverage way far out from what it really is. Maybe it is close in the flat lands, but sure isn't here in the mountains.
Mick - W7CAT
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----- Original Message ----- From: "wj9jrg via groups.io" To: [email protected]Sent: Monday, March 31, 2025 07:35:41 AM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Antenna Thoughts and Suggestions By removing the tip on the DB-408, and putting the Ringo on, you are
decreasing the lightning protection. Also, by putting the ringo on, you
are also inviting lightning. I would instead, just install the 408 and be done with it. If you want to see the coverage, you can set up an account
at and model there for free.
Andy Zorca
WJ9J
On Mon, Mar 31, 2025 at 9:25?AM Bill Davis AE via groups.io > [email protected]> wrote:
Yes, 440 will be our first choice on frequency allocation.
bd
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Hi, Radio Mobile is a toy... Send me the coordinates and tx, antenna, cables etc parameters and I will try a real coverage simulation? with the ATDI's ICS Telecom professional tool. I think there are 50 meters resolution DTM data for the USA on the web. (DTED 1 or 0 at least). The result will be in GE kmz format and can be seen on regular GE maps.
Michael SY1EGX On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 7:09?AM Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA) via <tarra= [email protected]> wrote:
This evening, once again, I tried Radio Mobile. I tried it a few years
ago at the request of the frequency coordinator in eastern Idaho. And
again this evening with similar results. If only I had the coverage it
shows. It is nothing close to what I really have. It shows coverage way
far out from what it really is. Maybe it is close in the flat lands, but
sure isn't here in the mountains.
Mick - W7CAT
----- Original Message -----
From: "wj9jrg via "
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2025 07:35:41 AM
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Antenna Thoughts and Suggestions
?> By removing the tip on the DB-408, and putting the Ringo on, you are
?> decreasing the lightning protection. Also, by putting the ringo on, you
?> are also inviting lightning. I would instead, just install the 408
and be
?> done with it. If you want to see the coverage, you can set up an account
?> at and model there for free.
?>
?> Andy Zorca
?> WJ9J
?>
?> On Mon, Mar 31, 2025 at 9:25?AM Bill Davis AE via >
[email protected]> wrote:
?>
?> > Yes, 440 will be our first choice on frequency allocation.
?> >
?> > bd
?> >
?> >
?> >
?>
?>
?>
?>
?>
?>
--
Untitled Document
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I have found Radio Mobile to be quite
accurate. As I recall, there are certain parameters that need to
be set in order to get that accuracy. Haven't used it in years,
however. It did compare well to the software used by a local
GE/Harris/Kenwood dealer who spent considerable $$$ for his
software.
Chuck
WB2EDV
On 4/1/2025 5:43 AM, wotan398 via
groups.io wrote:
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Show quoted text
Hi,
Radio Mobile is a toy...
Send me the coordinates and tx, antenna, cables etc
parameters and I will try a real coverage simulation? with the
ATDI's ICS Telecom professional tool.
I think there are 50 meters resolution DTM data for the USA
on the web. (DTED 1 or 0 at least). The result will be in GE
kmz format and can be seen on regular GE maps.
Michael
SY1EGX
On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 7:09?AM
Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA) via
<tarra= [email protected]>
wrote:
This
evening, once again, I tried Radio Mobile. I tried it a few
years
ago at the request of the frequency coordinator in eastern
Idaho. And
again this evening with similar results. If only I had the
coverage it
shows. It is nothing close to what I really have. It shows
coverage way
far out from what it really is. Maybe it is close in the flat
lands, but
sure isn't here in the mountains.
Mick - W7CAT
----- Original Message -----
From: "wj9jrg via "
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2025 07:35:41 AM
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Antenna Thoughts and
Suggestions
?> By removing the tip on the DB-408, and putting the Ringo
on, you are
?> decreasing the lightning protection. Also, by putting
the ringo on, you
?> are also inviting lightning. I would instead, just
install the 408
and be
?> done with it. If you want to see the coverage, you can
set up an account
?> at
and model there for free.
?>
?> Andy Zorca
?> WJ9J
?>
?> On Mon, Mar 31, 2025 at 9:25?AM Bill Davis AE via >
[email protected]>
wrote:
?>
?> > Yes, 440 will be our first choice on frequency
allocation.
?> >
?> > bd
?> >
?> >
?> >
?>
?>
?>
?>
?>
?>
--
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That's strange, I often get better coverage than it gives, and rarely (I don't remember a case) don't get it where it says.?? Make sure both antennas are entered correctly (it defaults to mobile coverage at 2 meters height), and I always lower RX sens to .25?? And I have used it on hundreds of locations ... counting both ends.??? Wished it had a little better resolution and sometimes the map is off a block at a distance (sometimes at a distance it paints the hilltop coverage off a little).
I consider it accurate, especially for the money.
Andy Zorca WJ9J On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 12:09?AM Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA) via <tarra= [email protected]> wrote:
This evening, once again, I tried Radio Mobile. I tried it a few years
ago at the request of the frequency coordinator in eastern Idaho. And
again this evening with similar results. If only I had the coverage it
shows. It is nothing close to what I really have. It shows coverage way
far out from what it really is. Maybe it is close in the flat lands, but
sure isn't here in the mountains.
Mick - W7CAT
----- Original Message -----
From: "wj9jrg via "
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2025 07:35:41 AM
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Antenna Thoughts and Suggestions
?> By removing the tip on the DB-408, and putting the Ringo on, you are
?> decreasing the lightning protection. Also, by putting the ringo on, you
?> are also inviting lightning. I would instead, just install the 408
and be
?> done with it. If you want to see the coverage, you can set up an account
?> at and model there for free.
?>
?> Andy Zorca
?> WJ9J
?>
?> On Mon, Mar 31, 2025 at 9:25?AM Bill Davis AE via >
[email protected]> wrote:
?>
?> > Yes, 440 will be our first choice on frequency allocation.
?> >
?> > bd
?> >
?> >
?> >
?>
?>
?>
?>
?>
?>
--
Untitled Document
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Bill Davis AE
Chris Boone WB5ITT