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WSJ: Hytera and other brands banned by FCC
Happy Thanksgiving all:
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While Hytera definitely was stealing /\/\ trade secrets, the other companies on the FCC list are caught up in Trump Era China bashing.? The NSA has been famous for performing the same types of espionage by installing back doors in US sourced IT equipment being shipped to out allies.?
I am not saying China isn't abusing its position to flood the market with cheap equipment at a great economic loss to US "manufacturers" *, however before you have embargoes on gear, Integrated Circuits and passive components,? there should be a domestic manufacturing source for same components. Just ask Ford why they are not shipping vehicles. * The US manufactures nothing and uses slave labor in China and Taiwan to produce product. Look at FOXCONN once again in the news. DON'T BUY AN APPLE PRODUCT TODAY OR IN FUTURE! -- The Real RFI-EMI-GUY |
开云体育Before jumping to conclusions over a 2 paragraph article, take a look at the source document and understand for yourself what manufacturers and what buyers are being addressed. Yes it's long, but at least you'll have the full story if you
take time to read it. On 11/25/2022 5:15 PM, Kevin
Magloughlin wrote:
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On Nov 25, 2022, at 5:39 PM, Ron <rolexa@...> wrote:
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I only pasted two paragraphs because I didn’t want others scream violation of copyright and all that stuff. The quick takeaway was Hytera is on the bad list and that can directly impact our efforts with repeaters. So I showed it in context and if the reader wants to follow up with the WSJ, have at it.? it’s that simple.? 73 |
开云体育If you read it you may not have fully understood it. It's an R&O with a further NPRM to follow For those of you running commercial repeaters, MAYBE there's an issue (will all depend on whether the FCC can really set rules to enforce the protocols listed).? For those of us in the Ham community, this has no effect.
On 11/25/2022 6:00 PM, W9RP via
groups.io wrote:
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开云体育Remember the great “narrow band” ruling that promised solve problems in high density areas and would provide a big economic boost for the United States. ?Bad news for limited budget public service users. ?But the FCC type accepted several Chinese built radios because some were being branded by US vendors. ?Great for the aforementioned users but didn’t do anything for US workers. ?Maybe the guviment will give us rebates for turning in “illegal” gear.
73
Jim
W0nkn On Nov 25, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Kevin Magloughlin via groups.io <krmjqo@...> wrote:
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开云体育Yes I understood it. It will most definitely affect hams that want to purchase this equipment i the future On Nov 25, 2022, at 6:42 PM, james jones <j2@...> wrote:
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Can we leave the political rhetoric and slants out of the actual conversation, please? Sincerely, ?Mr. Chris A. Robinson? ?KF6NFW / WQOQ661 On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 2:35 PM RFI-EMI-GUY <rhyolite@...> wrote: While Hytera definitely was stealing /\/\ trade secrets, the other companies on the FCC list are caught up in Trump Era China bashing.? The NSA has been famous for performing the same types of espionage by installing back doors in US sourced IT equipment being shipped to out allies.? |
It has been a long time coming.? It is unknown to what extent these companies are conducting operations against the West.?
In order to BE a China company, any information/money/gain of any type is OWNED by the CCP!, so it should be assumed that the extent of the espionage use of these companies is only limited by the extent that they are able.? Often the software TOS has a clause that "you agree to be bound by the laws of China by the use of the product".? So in a way you have surrendered your US citizenship to CCP jurisdiction without knowing it.? The claim that NSA has been guilty of this kind of thing certainly doesn't excuse NSA or CCP or any other entity.? WE should really be more consumer aware.? Do you really want your likeness and DNA profiles owned by CCP? I don't know if you can still find the download site for "Project Venona" (i hope i got the spelling).? From the 1920s or so, lots of encrypted traffic between the New York Russian Embassy and Kremlin were intercepted and saved but not until the Soviet Union fell, did the decryption keys become available and analysts were able to see the full extent of KGB operations to gain info on individuals in order to exploit "useful idiots" or blackmail people in positions of power and influence in order to bring about change favorable to Russia and detrimental to West.? It is the cheapest way to spy. Espionage is not just trade secrets, but information on individuals to best isolate and exploit them.? It was found after Venona that these espionage operations, usually used "volunteers" (useful idiots, slaves) in the target country in order to insulate themselves from prosecution. I can recall a foreign operative laughing at me and telling me - "Americans are lazy and stupid and traitors to their own people, and deserve whatever happens to them". |
Hytera is now claiming that their equipment should not apply to this ban because it "isn't network equipment" and supposedly doesn't meet some bandwidth requirement in the law.? Last time I checked there are 10/100 Ethernet ports on the rear of their repeaters, capable of network connectivity over the internet - and their radios have data connectivity functionality.? Apparently they don't understand what a network is. These days most digital radio networks are also IP networks and require the same or better safeguards than high-end corporate, banking, and government data networks use. I saw one of the articles stated that Hytera was a supplier of Public Safety Radios.? I am sorry but anyone using Hytera for Public Safety or Mission-Critical communications is out of their minds.? Thankfully, to my Knowledge, Hytera has never offered P25 radios, which thankfully has mostly kept them out of the Public Safety market.? Hytera radios have mostly been used by businesses too cheap to buy a? higher-quality radio system. Also interesting is that L3Harris has been re-branding Hytera radios for many years and offering them as their DMR offering.? I suspect that relationship will also end as a result of this. Dan Woodie, CETsr KC8ZUM? On Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 5:15 PM Kevin Magloughlin <krmjqo@...> wrote:
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Hytera had a pretty good product offering, but sadly they stole intellectual property, and from the wrong company. I spoke with a Hytera rep at the Orlando Hamcation a year before this came to light and he told me the founder of the company had changed the company name from HYT to HYTera because he wanted to end the era of Motorola (60 years at the time). So it seems the motivation may have been more greed of one individual than a Chinese military directed operation. I had been studying Motorola IP Site Connect and HYTera IP Multi Site connect documentation at the time and found specific language in the HYTera manual was clearly plagiarized from Motorola. So it was no surprise.
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As far as the "internet" and security. It is a moldy slice of holy swiss cheese. There is no amount of effort that can protect ones data from malicious party's. Look at all of the products you own that interface with the internet. How many of them were built solely on US soil? What about the chips? None of them. There has been no effort by the US to bring strategic manufacturing back to the US soil. Why? Corporate Greed.? Corporations hire engineers with H1B Visa's because they can pay them less and they get access to all of the intellectual property in the US. At some point they get fed up and homesick and have a huge wad of cash in home equity or savings and they "retire" back in China where they can be hired to design missiles and radios. This problem is manufactured here in the US by corporate greed and stupidity. Unfortunately the "powers to be" decided that they would sever ties with Chinese chip makers without first putting funding into US wafer fab.? Maybe the US DOD should cough up some of that investment like the Chinese military apparently does. On Sat, Nov 26, 2022 at 07:33 PM, Dan Woodie wrote:
? -- The Real RFI-EMI-GUY |
I guess they were more worried about the used ink tapes that could be read without any tech required.?
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I read somewhere that Lenovo laptops supplied to many gov't departments at one point were found to have keyloggers built-in.? Also read that an update server had recently been found infected, and all updates for several years had been pushing a trojan horse update for server diagnostic software to leave a backdoor for CCP.? Always some way to exploit.? It seems these days, there are a great number of people who can't read (or write) plain language and just get triggered over a word or phrase that completely negates the intended message.? Maybe language is dead as a communications device and we can now just grunt and talk valley girl. On Sat, Nov 26, 2022 at 05:22 PM, OliverKrystal wrote:
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On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 4:16 PM jb via <ssnova64=[email protected]> wrote: I guess they were more worried about the used ink tapes that could be read without any tech required.? Truthfully, the story is not far-fetched. But it bothers me that I've heard the story many times and never been able to find anything to back it up, aside from the fact that Lenovo was sanctioned for pre-installed adware. |
The old school hack by Russians on Selectric typewriters was very intriguing. At least in the bad old days one had to gain access and physically modify products to spy with them. Nowadays the capabilities are baked in by the product designers to generate revenue streams on user data.
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On Sat, Nov 26, 2022 at 08:22 PM, OliverKrystal wrote:
? -- The Real RFI-EMI-GUY |
A lot of these stories in WSJ etc; are ginned up by various Govt agencies trying to raise fear. How often do you read a story about how some university researcher developed an exploit on XYZ and when you read the details it becomes apparent that it is impractical. The latest area of concern are time critical networks used by NASA on missions. The exploit requires a surreptitious device on board a spaceship to squirt RF jamming pulses into Cat 5 cabling. Solution? Use fiber optics, duh..
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On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 04:56 PM, Matt Wagner wrote:
? -- The Real RFI-EMI-GUY |
Ya I didn't want to get deep into that aspect of it.? A lot of "News" outlets make a headline out of a news release.? They are so hungry for a scoop, they get used as a sounding board.
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You NEED to do the research or the news story is basically a lie to a whole lot of people that can't make sense of it.? Never take a news release for gospel.? A lot of the alerts on CISA are from all over the place and maybe a lot of them seem far-fetched and some are only theoretical and some only tested in a lab under controlled situations, but some is real malware and someone went through the time and money to MAKE them and WERE operable for a time without anyone realizing it was there.? Realize also that there is considerable automated malware that doesn't care if you are grandma or a gov't computer or the local hospital, we are all targets. The backdoor I was talking about was You can search that thread for more background.? It was pushed as a trusted automatic update from a trusted source, so it got a free pass from detection.?? See also "supply chain attack". On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 04:08 PM, RFI-EMI-GUY wrote:
A lot of these stories in WSJ etc; are ginned up by various Govt agencies trying to raise fear. How often do you read a story about how some university researcher developed an exploit on XYZ and when you read the details it becomes apparent that it is impractical. The latest area of concern are time critical networks used by NASA on missions. The exploit requires a surreptitious device on board a spaceship to squirt RF jamming pulses into Cat 5 cabling. Solution? Use fiber optics, duh.. |
I don't know what "story" you are referring to.?
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A keylogger is some trick that captures the keystrokes on a keyboard and saves them for collection.? The real keylogger I saw in a laptop was built into the keyboard and had very small wiring that connected in parallel to the phone line connection such that when the keylogger's memory would fill, and if it was online it would wait until your online activity was through, then it would dial-up to the outside and dump its load without the user being any the wiser.? You would have to tear it apart to find it because it was never tied to, or used any of ,the rest of the hardware or even touched the OS, and no scanner or diagnostics would ever find it.? My guess is it was an option available to employers. On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 01:56 PM, Matt Wagner wrote:
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