Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
Thats an easy one. PI 5 for the win.
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On 2025-05-23 19:58, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA) wrote: What about a Pi? Which is better, the 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5?
Mick - W7CAT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Arck AH6LE via groups.io"
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2025 03:28:23 PM
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
Can we discuss PC vs MAC next?
At 02:04 PM 5/23/2025, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io wrote:
No it's not allowed....ask Riley or Laura Smith..
When a station is not repeating another station,
it falls under other rules. This is the same
thing as when it's in Auto patch mode, it's no
longer a repeater, it's a station carrying
third-party traffic and must follow third-party
traffic rules. If it is beaconing it falls under
the beacon rules! Automatic beaconing on two
meters is restricted to 144.275 to 144.3. If you
are automatically beaconing outside of that sub
band, the rules require a control operator
monitor the transmitter during its operation.
Those are the rules! Like them or not they're in part 97.203
Chris WB5ITT?
On Fri, May 23, 2025, 3:48?€?PM Tom Cole via
groups.io
[email protected]> wrote:
That was my point. It is not prohibited, so
therefore is allowed. In fact, one could ID every 5 minutes and be legal.?
On May 23, 2025, at 12:18?€?PM,
digitalradiohacker via
groups.io
[email protected]> wrote:
???
"There isn't anything in the rules that says
you are supposed to transmit every ten minutes that a repeater is available"
There probably isn't anything in the rules
about me wearing a red t-shirt, but I'm doing it anyway.
If something isn't prohibited, it is allowed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Controllers
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories
Phone: (503) 678 6182
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave.
We offer complete turn-key repeater packages!
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
[]
|
Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
What about a Pi? Which is better, the 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5?
Mick - W7CAT
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Arck AH6LE via groups.io" To: [email protected]Sent: Friday, May 23, 2025 03:28:23 PM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit Can we discuss PC vs MAC next?
At 02:04 PM 5/23/2025, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io wrote:
No it's not allowed....ask Riley or Laura Smith..
When a station is not repeating another station,
it falls under other rules. This is the same
thing as when it's in Auto patch mode, it's no
longer a repeater, it's a station carrying
third-party traffic and must follow third-party
traffic rules. If it is beaconing it falls under
the beacon rules! Automatic beaconing on two
meters is restricted to 144.275 to 144.3. If you
are automatically beaconing outside of that sub
band, the rules require a control operator
monitor the transmitter during its operation.
Those are the rules! Like them or not they're in part 97.203
Chris WB5ITT?
On Fri, May 23, 2025, 3:48?€?PM Tom Cole via
groups.io
[email protected]> wrote:
That was my point. It is not prohibited, so
therefore is allowed. In fact, one could ID every 5 minutes and be legal.?
On May 23, 2025, at 12:18?€?PM,
digitalradiohacker via
groups.io
[email protected]> wrote:
???
"There isn't anything in the rules that says
you are supposed to transmit every ten minutes that a repeater is
available"
There probably isn't anything in the rules
about me wearing a red t-shirt, but I'm doing it anyway.
If something isn't prohibited, it is allowed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ President and CTO - Arcom Controllers
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories
Phone: (503) 678 6182
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave.
We offer complete turn-key repeater packages!
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
[]
-- Untitled Document
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Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
Beacon:
Part 97 - Page 5 - section 9 defines "Beacon" as:
An amateur station transmitting communications for the purposes of observation of propagation and reception or other related experimental activities.
?
Sending ID or the time is not for the purpose of observing propagation.
Sending ID or the time is not for the purpose of observing reception.
Sending ID or the time is not for the purpose of other related experimental activities.
The definiton of "Beacon" does not appear to be met here.
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Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
Chris,
Page 8 section 47of Part 97 defines "Third party communications" as:
A message from the control operator (first party) of an amateur station to another amateur station control operator (second party) on behalf of another person (third party).
There is no first party.
There is no third party.
There is no "on behalf of" aspect.
The definition of "Third party communications" does not seem to be met here.
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Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
For giggles, I had to see what ChatGPT had to say about it (I'm certainly
not calling this a qualified source and I've caught ChatGPT in errors
before).
In the United States, beaconing an ID on an amateur repeater is
legal, but there are specific rules that must be followed,
according to the FCC's Part 97 regulations.
Key Points:
- Identification Requirement (¡ì97.119):
- Amateur stations must identify with their FCC-issued callsign
at least every 10 minutes during a communication and at the end
of a communication.
- This can be done via voice, CW, or digital modes.
- Repeater-Specific Rules:
- Repeaters must ID themselves automatically (often via Morse code or
synthesized voice).
- Automatic ID (beaconing) is allowed and commonly implemented on
repeaters to meet ID requirements.
- Beacon vs. Repeater:
- A beacon station is defined differently under ¡ì97.203 ? it
transmits communications for the purpose of observing propagation or
related experimental activities. This is distinct from a repeater.
- You cannot operate a repeater as a beacon station, but you
can transmit periodic ID messages (i.e., beacon-like IDs) as part
of the repeater's operation, as long as the ID conforms to ¡ì97.119.
- Content Restrictions:
- Only station identification and legally permitted control signals
should be transmitted. No advertising or unrelated messages.
Summary:Yes, a repeater can automatically transmit its ID
? often referred to as "beaconing an ID" ? as long as it
follows FCC ID rules (timing, content, and method). This is standard
practice for most amateur repeaters.
If you're outside the U.S., let me know your country ? regulations
differ.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Controllers
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories
Phone: (503) 678 6182
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave.
We offer complete turn-key repeater packages!
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
![[]](http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/arcom.png)
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Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
If your station is keying up just to send an ID every 10 minutes without any other activity then it's a beacon.
No it is not. It is a licensed repeater, identifying per regulations. Just because you don¡¯t agree changes nothing. If ALL it did was identify, without ever passing other traffic you would be correct. Since its primary purpose is to pass traffic from one operator to others, it is not a beacon. Have a blessed day . I¡¯m through with this nonsense. We will continue to legally operate as we have for longer than most of you have been licensed.
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Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
Can we discuss PC vs MAC next?
At 02:04 PM 5/23/2025, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
No it's not allowed....ask Riley
or Laura Smith..
When a station is not repeating another station, it falls under other
rules. This is the same thing as when it's in Auto patch mode, it's no
longer a repeater, it's a station carrying third-party traffic and must
follow third-party traffic rules. If it is beaconing it falls under the
beacon rules! Automatic beaconing on two meters is restricted to 144.275
to 144.3. If you are automatically beaconing outside of that sub band,
the rules require a control operator monitor the transmitter during its
operation. Those are the rules! Like them or not they're in part
97.203
Chris WB5ITT?
On Fri, May 23, 2025, 3:48?€?PM Tom Cole via
<tomcole1=
[email protected]> wrote:
- That was my point. It is not prohibited, so therefore is allowed. In
fact, one could ID every 5 minutes and be legal.?
- On May 23, 2025, at 12:18?€?PM, digitalradiohacker via
<digitalradiohacker=
[email protected]> wrote:
- ???
- "There isn't anything in the rules that says you are supposed to
transmit every ten minutes that a repeater is available"
- There probably isn't anything in the rules about me wearing a red
t-shirt, but I'm doing it anyway.
- If something isn't prohibited, it is allowed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Controllers
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories
Phone: (503) 678 6182
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave.
We offer complete turn-key repeater packages!
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
|
Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
Not at all. Transmitting the repeater ID every 10 minutes is not only legal, but required.
?
? ? ?? Tom you need to read part 97 and take your license test again... the only time the repeaters required to ID is when it's in use!
> What is the reason for ID'ing every 10 minutes?? To pollute the channel with more RF?? To remind everybody what the repeater's callsign is?? What exactly is the purpose?
The purpose is that the FCC states we must ID every ten minutes.
>
> Likewise, what is the purpose of 'grandfather clock' ID's?? Doesn't everybody have a watch, a cell phone, a clock, or some other timekeeping device with or near them at all times already?? More RF pollution, more FCC violations.?
Again, your interpretation. Why are you so concerned about your supposed ¡°RF pollution¡±?
>
> Going back to the original discussion regarding DMR beaconing, that, too, has already been "addressed" by the FCC in several instances in my area.? The relevant rule section is 97.203(d):
>
> (d) A beacon may be automatically controlled while it is transmitting on the 28.20©\28.30 MHz, 50.06©\
> 50.08 MHz, 144.275©\144.300 MHz, 222.05©\222.06 MHz or 432.300©\432.400 MHz segments, or on the 33
> cm and shorter wavelength bands.
>
Transmitting your ID is not the same as beaconing. Get over yourself Jeff. When YOU become head of the FCC, then you get to dictate to others. Until then, go pound sand.
If your station is keying up just to send an ID every 10 minutes without any other activity then it's a beacon. The FCC has stated that in several NOVs and NALs. Go ask Riley Hollingsworth or Laura Smith and they'll tell you the exact same damn thing I'm telling you right now. You cannot Beacon ID 24/7 or anytime in the repeater bands unless a control operator is monitoring the station at the time it is beaconing, even JUST AN ID! OR GRANDFATHER CLOCK... These repeaters that Beacon 24/7, there's no damn control operator monitoring at 3:00 in the morning and that is 100% illegal. You can go pound sand
One person I know in Houston was iding beaconing on 29.6 off of his UHF link system every 10 damn minutes. The guys on 29.6 got pissed and somebody finally got hold of Riley who wrote an email or letter to the ham and told him turn it off or face a NOV from Laura Smith of the FCC who took Riley's spot when he retired. Needless to say he turned it off.
Chris WB5ITT? ex WR5AOK...from the Prose Walker days of repeaters...sorry kids you don't know what you missed in the 70s...
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Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
No it's not allowed....ask Riley or Laura Smith..
When a station is not repeating another station, it falls under other rules. This is the same thing as when it's in Auto patch mode, it's no longer a repeater, it's a station carrying third-party traffic and must follow third-party traffic rules. If it is beaconing it falls under the beacon rules! Automatic beaconing on two meters is restricted to 144.275 to 144.3. If you are automatically beaconing outside of that sub band, the rules require a control operator monitor the transmitter during its operation. Those are the rules! Like them or not they're in part 97.203
Chris WB5ITT?
That was my point. It is not prohibited, so therefore is allowed. In fact, one could ID every 5 minutes and be legal.? On May 23, 2025, at 12:18?PM, digitalradiohacker via <digitalradiohacker=[email protected]> wrote:
? "There isn't anything in the rules that says you are supposed to transmit every ten minutes that a repeater is available"
There probably isn't anything in the rules about me wearing a red t-shirt, but I'm doing it anyway.
If something isn't prohibited, it is allowed.
|
Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
That was my point. It is not prohibited, so therefore is allowed. In fact, one could ID every 5 minutes and be legal.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 23, 2025, at 12:18?PM, digitalradiohacker via groups.io <digitalradiohacker@...> wrote:
? "There isn't anything in the rules that says you are supposed to transmit every ten minutes that a repeater is available"
There probably isn't anything in the rules about me wearing a red t-shirt, but I'm doing it anyway.
If something isn't prohibited, it is allowed.
|
Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
I wonder if someone can walk me through this?
I'm based in the UK, and our rules are ging to be different. For example, the only rule that I think would apply here is "unattended operation". For remote (unattended) operation, an amateur must hold the top class of license (simply called "full license"). There are some requirements for being able to knockdown the system etc, but other than that, we can pretty much do as we like. Grandfather clock? Fine. Hourly or minute by minute repeater announcement? Go ahead.
So far, a lot of people have stated that this is "illegal", but no one has posted the chapter and verse that specifically prohibits it, and perhaps this is where the source of the argument is.
If someone could post exactly what they are looking at, and it turned out to be right, there would be no argument surely?
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Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit, attempt #2
The SLR does...via the GPIO pins..I opened an archive I have for a SLR8000 and set GPIO 2 to low going, debounce and TX PL Inhibit....it should work once written into the cpg..I don't have a SLR8000 lying around to test it though
Thats why I asked him to send me his CTB file so I can look at it
Chris
Chris
Does the SLR allow external logic control of encoded tone? I know the
Quantar does but have no idea about the SLR.
Ken
At 11:00 AM 5/23/2025, you wrote:
Mike I'm not sure why you did
all that. I don't understand what you're trying to do. The SLR 8000 will
not send PL during the IDs if you have the correct checkbox marked. I
guess it's because you're using an external controller. Are you having
the RC 210 do that, send the IDs? Why don't you post your code plug and
I'll take a look at it.
Chris WB5ITT?
On Fri, May 23, 2025, 12:55?€?PM Mike Sullivan via
<Kn4imu=[email protected]
> wrote:
- Going to try this again since my other topic was hijacked and turned
into a cryfest over ID's..
- So, again, RC-210 to a SLR-8000 no TS64. Everything works great, but
I am attempting to set up the repeater so that the CW ID does not send PL
Tone. (This is our choice, do not start your crying about ID in here)
This is how our old config (VXR-7000 with TS64) was set up. Nothing has
changed regarding controller programming yet.
- My thinking was tying the CTCSS Control pin to GPIO and enabled Tx PL
Inhibit would do this just fine. However when I have Tx PL Inhibit
programed in, whether set for Active High or Active Low, it strips PL
constantly. Is there something I am missing regarding the CTCSS Control
output or the way the Tx PL Inhibit function works? Or is there something
silly I'm missing on the RC-210 to change the CTCSS Control
functionality?
- (Please, for the love of god, keep the ID fight out of here)
- Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Controllers
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories
Phone: (503) 678 6182
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave.
We offer complete turn-key repeater packages!
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
|
Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit, attempt #2
Chris
Does the SLR allow external logic control of encoded tone? I know the
Quantar does but have no idea about the SLR.
Ken
At 11:00 AM 5/23/2025, you wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Mike I'm not sure why you did
all that. I don't understand what you're trying to do. The SLR 8000 will
not send PL during the IDs if you have the correct checkbox marked. I
guess it's because you're using an external controller. Are you having
the RC 210 do that, send the IDs? Why don't you post your code plug and
I'll take a look at it.
Chris WB5ITT?
On Fri, May 23, 2025, 12:55?€?PM Mike Sullivan via
<Kn4imu=[email protected]
> wrote:
- Going to try this again since my other topic was hijacked and turned
into a cryfest over ID's..
- So, again, RC-210 to a SLR-8000 no TS64. Everything works great, but
I am attempting to set up the repeater so that the CW ID does not send PL
Tone. (This is our choice, do not start your crying about ID in here)
This is how our old config (VXR-7000 with TS64) was set up. Nothing has
changed regarding controller programming yet.
- My thinking was tying the CTCSS Control pin to GPIO and enabled Tx PL
Inhibit would do this just fine. However when I have Tx PL Inhibit
programed in, whether set for Active High or Active Low, it strips PL
constantly. Is there something I am missing regarding the CTCSS Control
output or the way the Tx PL Inhibit function works? Or is there something
silly I'm missing on the RC-210 to change the CTCSS Control
functionality?
- (Please, for the love of god, keep the ID fight out of here)
- Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Controllers
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories
Phone: (503) 678 6182
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave.
We offer complete turn-key repeater packages!
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
|
Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit, attempt #2
On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 02:00 PM, Chris Boone WB5ITT wrote:
Mike I'm not sure why you did all that. I don't understand what you're trying to do. The SLR 8000 will not send PL during the IDs if you have the correct checkbox marked. I guess it's because you're using an external controller. Are you having the RC 210 do that, send the IDs? Why don't you post your code plug and I'll take a look at it.
?
Chris WB5ITT?
Going to try this again since my other topic was hijacked and turned into a cryfest over ID's..
So, again, RC-210 to a SLR-8000 no TS64. Everything works great, but I am attempting to set up the repeater so that the CW ID does not send PL Tone. (This is our choice, do not start your crying about ID in here) This is how our old config (VXR-7000 with TS64) was set up. Nothing has changed regarding controller programming yet.
My thinking was tying the CTCSS Control pin to GPIO and enabled Tx PL Inhibit would do this just fine. However when I have Tx PL Inhibit programed in, whether set for Active High or Active Low, it strips PL constantly. Is there something I am missing regarding the CTCSS Control output or the way the Tx PL Inhibit function works? Or is there something silly I'm missing on the RC-210 to change the CTCSS Control functionality?
(Please, for the love of god, keep the ID fight out of here)
Mike
Yes, the controller is handling it. We use CWID every 10 minutes and a voice ID at the top of the hour as a "grandfather clock". Would like to keep it that way. I know the repeater will strip it when in repeat mode, but we need the RC210 for interfacing to Allstar and remote base. Mike
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Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit, attempt #2
Mike I'm not sure why you did all that. I don't understand what you're trying to do. The SLR 8000 will not send PL during the IDs if you have the correct checkbox marked. I guess it's because you're using an external controller. Are you having the RC 210 do that, send the IDs? Why don't you post your code plug and I'll take a look at it.
Chris WB5ITT?
Going to try this again since my other topic was hijacked and turned into a cryfest over ID's..
So, again, RC-210 to a SLR-8000 no TS64. Everything works great, but I am attempting to set up the repeater so that the CW ID does not send PL Tone. (This is our choice, do not start your crying about ID in here) This is how our old config (VXR-7000 with TS64) was set up. Nothing has changed regarding controller programming yet.
My thinking was tying the CTCSS Control pin to GPIO and enabled Tx PL Inhibit would do this just fine. However when I have Tx PL Inhibit programed in, whether set for Active High or Active Low, it strips PL constantly. Is there something I am missing regarding the CTCSS Control output or the way the Tx PL Inhibit function works? Or is there something silly I'm missing on the RC-210 to change the CTCSS Control functionality?
(Please, for the love of god, keep the ID fight out of here)
Mike
|
RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit, attempt #2
Going to try this again since my other topic was hijacked and turned into a cryfest over ID's..
So, again, RC-210 to a SLR-8000 no TS64. Everything works great, but I am attempting to set up the repeater so that the CW ID does not send PL Tone. (This is our choice, do not start your crying about ID in here) This is how our old config (VXR-7000 with TS64) was set up. Nothing has changed regarding controller programming yet.
My thinking was tying the CTCSS Control pin to GPIO and enabled Tx PL Inhibit would do this just fine. However when I have Tx PL Inhibit programed in, whether set for Active High or Active Low, it strips PL constantly. Is there something I am missing regarding the CTCSS Control output or the way the Tx PL Inhibit function works? Or is there something silly I'm missing on the RC-210 to change the CTCSS Control functionality?
(Please, for the love of god, keep the ID fight out of here)
Mike
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Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
Hello Jeff,
Any plans for the holiday? Just wondering if you would like to go pound sand with me?
By the way Tom, you forgot to give your call sign like us respectable hams do!
Mick - W7CAT
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Cole" To: [email protected]Sent: Friday, May 23, 2025 10:50:58 AM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
On May 23, 2025, at 10:33?AM, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater
Association (TARRA) wrote:
?
Have you ever read Part 97? Do you know what it is about?
¡ì 97.119 Station identification.
(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand
station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication
There isn't anything in the rules that says you are supposed to
transmit every ten minutes that a repeater is available.
There is also nothing that says you can¡¯t. Now go pound sand with
your buddy Jeff.
-- Untitled Document
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Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
"There isn't anything in the rules that says you are supposed to transmit every ten minutes that a repeater is available"
There probably isn't anything in the rules about me wearing a red t-shirt, but I'm doing it anyway.
If something isn't prohibited, it is allowed.
|
Re: RC-210 and SLR-8000 PL Inhibit
On May 23, 2025, at 10:33?AM, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA) <tarra@...> wrote:
?
Have you ever read Part 97? Do you know what it is about?
¡ì 97.119 Station identification.
(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication
There isn't anything in the rules that says you are supposed to transmit every ten minutes that a repeater is available.
There is also nothing that says you can¡¯t. Now go pound sand with your buddy Jeff.
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digitalradiohacker
Ken Arck AH6LE
Chris Boone WB5ITT