DTMF decoders are easy and I have several made by Motron that store and read out the DTMF sequence. However, the RF frequency and codes for setting off community sirens is not public information and if its known expect people to set off the sirens maliciously.
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i am looking for a dtmf decoder to connect to a receiver to decode our local ema whelen siren to give a message on the repeater that the sirens have been activated i monitor the frequency that they activate the sirens on and the dtmf is very fast i am sure different tone sequence has different meanings i just want an announcement that the sirens were set off ,any thoughts ? Thanks?
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Re: VXR-9000 and Trident Raider
I'm pulling the discriminator audio off the VXR-9000 from PIN 6 which the manual states is 0-3000 Hz Analog output.? There's also an PIN 23 RXD HIGH that?is a Digital Output for DATA Communications. I don't know if that would make a difference.
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I threw my test LTR user into CTCSS mode with a PL of 94.8 and it would fully key up the repeater but the transmit would drop out after a few seconds but keep the CARRIER and RECEIVE LED lit up, obviously it must not be liking the audio and data its receiving.
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I know there's 3 jumpers to mess with but the manual doesn't say what each jumper does, hence why I haven't messed with them yet.
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Re: VXR-9000 and Trident Raider
The Raider documentation has multiple examples of how to set up the controller with various radios. Spending some time looking at these and documentation on the Vertex radio, along with an oscilloscope and service monitor, should help you figure things out.
The Vertex radio needs to pass raw discriminator to the controller which handles the decoding, so set the Vertex radio to operate as a full duplex base (non-repeating) and operate in carrier squelch mode. Once you get the controller happy as far as receiving, then set the transmit including the polarity of the data word if using DPL or LTR formats. Also there were different versions of firmware for the controller. If you intend to use the Raider in LTR mode or to decode DPL, the controller needs to see the undistorted data essentially down to DC. If you are only decoding PL tones then you can tolerate a bit of low frequency roll off since the lowest PL tone is 67Hz.
Trident is no longer in business so you are somewhat on your own.
Personally I was never really impressed with the way the Raider handled repeated audio, especially in LTR format.
Milt
N3LTQ
Quoting "Jared Smudde via groups.io" <computerwhiz02@...>:
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Has anyone had experience with a VXR-9000 and a Trident Raider LTR controller? I've got the carrier light on whenever I try to key up but I can't get the receive light to come on and handshake. I've tried messing with the dipswitch with no luck but I have no idea if I need to remove any jumpers or not, there's nothing about Vertex repeaters being used on Trident controllers. I've gone through and aligned both the repeater and controller.
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Re: VXR-9000 and Trident Raider
Jared,?
Which device is handling the CTCSS? I know the VXR7000 only passes COR and requires modification (tapping a transistor on the VXR controller board) to provide COR with CTCSS.?
Not sure if it's related or if the VXR9000 has the same issue but wanted to mention it for consideration. Might explain why you're seeing carrier detect but no RX indicator.?
Jeremy K1LFK?
On Mon, May 26, 2025, 3:22?AM Jared Smudde via <computerwhiz02= [email protected]> wrote: Has anyone had experience with a VXR-9000 and a Trident Raider LTR controller? I've got the carrier light on whenever I try to key up but I can't get the receive light to come on and handshake. I've tried messing with the dipswitch with no luck but I have no idea if I need to remove any jumpers or not, there's nothing about Vertex repeaters being used on Trident controllers. I've gone through and aligned both the repeater and controller.
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VXR-9000 and Trident Raider
Has anyone had experience with a VXR-9000 and a Trident Raider LTR controller? I've got the carrier light on whenever I try to key up but I can't get the receive light to come on and handshake. I've tried messing with the dipswitch with no luck but I have no idea if I need to remove any jumpers or not, there's nothing about Vertex repeaters being used on Trident controllers. I've gone through and aligned both the repeater and controller.
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Jim was very soft spoken and very kind and friendly. I would have been there at the desk beside his.?
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Interesting anecdote, Harold...I met Jim at Sinc. in Aurora in 1990. I was visiting the area and decided to drop in to see if I could buy 4 invar rods. The front desk paged Jim and he took me to a small meeting room whereby he commenced to give me a detailed tutorial on the Q201 duplexer complete with some graphs that he hand drew as I watched. We also talked about the 210 Series of antennas and he gave me some "shop" drawings on the construction of the loop, and some documents watermarked "Training Docs". I still have all these documents today.
At the end, he told me that because of Sinclair's somewhat unique order and billing system -that could not accept a point-of-sale entry- he would be unable to sell me the rods...so "I'll just have to give them to you". Jim was quite welcoming and our meeting was not at all rushed.
Larry
On Sun, May 25, 2025 at 5:08?PM Harold Farrenkopf via <hfarrenkopf= [email protected]> wrote: ¡°Whats odd is I've heard several stories about how Hams have got help from Sinclair & they were happy to help out. One fella told me he talked to a Mr. Sinclair about some duplexers years back. Idk if that's true or not but it sounded nice.¡°
?
That was the past¡.? Dr. George Sinclair was a ham .? I was there 1988 to 1991 and 2000 to 2001.? I returned the second time and was given verbal assurance and promises that I could continue doing my own consulting on the side but when I did, they didn¡¯t like it and I got let go (with adequate severance). They lost their ham friendly attitude when the hams left and when the company was sold. I know I helped many hams during my time and they used to get 25% off list prices.?
They replaced me (a professional engineer) with someone taking some online Phoenix courses in electronics that said he¡¯d be an engineer but he never completed it but continued on in that role. He also called himself an engineer which is illegal in Canada. ?
Things really changed there when George died in the ?mid 90s.?
Jim Morrison was also a great asset to hams. I bought my first duplexer from him in 1983 at a local ham flea market.? He taught me everything I know about filters when I started there¡.
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Do some searching in this forum and you should find a post from me that shows the Sinclair part numbers for the proper harnesses for these duplexers. ?I am sitting in the car conducting a net or I would post them. It was a while back but I know I put them out here. ?
73
?
Kevin?
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
¡°Whats odd is I've heard several stories about how Hams have got help from Sinclair & they were happy to help out. One fella told me he talked to a Mr. Sinclair about some duplexers years back. Idk if that's true or not but it sounded nice.¡°
?
That was the past¡. ?Dr. George Sinclair was a ham . ?I was there 1988 to 1991 and 2000 to 2001. ?I returned the second time and was given verbal assurance and promises that I could continue doing my own consulting on the side but when I did, they didn¡¯t like it and I got let go (with adequate severance). They lost their ham friendly attitude when the hams left and when the company was sold. I know I helped many hams during my time and they used to get 25% off list prices.?
They replaced me (a professional engineer) with someone taking some online Phoenix courses in electronics that said he¡¯d be an engineer but he never completed it but continued on in that role. He also called himself an engineer which is illegal in Canada. ?
Things really changed there when George died in the ?mid 90s.?
Jim Morrison was also a great asset to hams. I bought my first duplexer from him in 1983 at a local ham flea market. ?He taught me everything I know about filters when I started there¡.
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Q cavity works just as well as a pass can. I¡¯ve tuned 6 can Q duplexers so that the can closest to the equipment is a symmetrical notch to give it a good pass response so other stuff outside the ham band is filtered out. The other 4 cans tuned as a 4 can duplexer with 0.7dB insertion loss per can.?
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
I made several kits at the shop for the internal desense problem.?? Due to the cable routing, I used RG-223.?? It is more flexible than RG-400.
Electrically, either one would work, but I liked the lay of RG-223 better.
For the Q202, the high split harness with not tune up correctly.?
At this point, I would eliminate the well known TX additional noise floor of that repeater by using a different repeater.??? You could also try a bandpass only cavity after the TX.?? A BPBR will not work, it must be BP only.?? The cable length is critical for a good match, but at least you can see if it helps the problem.?? Jeff could probably give you the correct jumper length if he has the cavity information, if you end up going that direction.
John?
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On 2025-05-25 17:58, N4FOX via groups.io wrote:
Al,
Thanks for the thought about that.
I covered that in one of my earlier post. I replaced those cables with RG400 a while back.?
?
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Al,
Thanks for the thought about that.
I covered that in one of my earlier post. I replaced those cables with RG400 a while back.?
?
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Has anyone mentioned in-cabinet desense? Some of those Yeasu DR series had cheep RG58 internal RF cables. Try hooking the transmitter direct to a dummy load and the receiver to a frequency generator and see if there is any difference with and without the transmitter on. Eliminates the duplexer, feedlines, antenna, etc.
?
Al, k9si
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Mick,
?Actually no i didn't. Once I was told it wouldn't be ideal I pursued getting or making one that was.?
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I still have it. Though I adjusted the can layout/order a little to allow the new harness to flow around better.
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I've actually considered trying it being I've had all these other issues.?
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I'll share some pictures of the original harness vs what I made. The with & without the door.
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?
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Did you ever try the original harness?
Mick - W7CAT
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----- Original Message ----- From: "N4FOX via groups.io" To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2025 01:10:37 PM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Desense is driving me crazy Harold,
I know you're right there. I didn't want to do this with so many connections. I liked the harness the duplexer came with. I was told/advised it was just not the right length being the duplexer was originally tuned around 170mhz. Then going down to 145.330 MHz.
I have tried calling & emailing Sinclair to ask about getting the
correct harness from them. They just never returned my calls or emails. Whats odd is I've heard several stories about how Hams have got help from Sinclair & they were happy to help out. One fella told me he talked to a Mr. Sinclair about some duplexers years back. Idk if that's true or not but it sounded nice.
This is the sheet they came with. Idk if this is from Sinclair
directly, but looks like someone bought them through tessco originally.
As for the VNA on the ground for $850. Sounds like it need to get to
some ham fest lol. I quit going years ago. I used to have friends to go with. But they aren't around now days. They have either passed away or got out of the hobby. It's not much fun doing things solo. To me life is about the experiences. It's fun to share them. Otherwise it feels like what I'd image drinking alone is like..lol. idk, I don't drink.
-- Untitled Document
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
I remember receiving several factory tuned Q-2330 duplexers from Sinc. and seeing exactly what you describe when viewing the RL. I called and spoke to an engineer and was told that what I was seeing was "normal". When installed and tested the system worked as it should, so I did not give it another thought.
Larry
Harold,
?Thanks for sharing your insights. I appreciate that. I do see 3 humps in the return loss when the cans are all hooked together. It's always kinds bugged me, but I was told it's normal by several folks. So it put my mind at ease a little.?
?
I have tried listening for desense by taking the duplexer out of line completely. It's not present then. It sounds exactly how I'd imagine it to sound. No change in the receiver at all when the transmitter is engaged, no matter what power setting is used.
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Right or wrong, I have a M1225 programmed for the frequencies. I use it for the final notch tuning. I just keep turning down the signal from the service monitor and tune until it goes away and then turn it down some more.
Mick - W7CAT
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----- Original Message ----- From: "N4FOX via groups.io" To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2025 12:14:23 PM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Desense is driving me crazy Mick,
I've wondered the same thing. I started off with a Lite VNA 64. It was regarded as the best small handheld inexpensive VNA at the time of purchase a few years ago. It was only about $150. It's really cool for what you get vs cost. Handy..
When I decided to get into tuning these cans & to have some more
equipment I looked into other devices. From 30yr old professional equipment with floppy drives & CRT displays to newer VNA within the budget. The 2nd device I picked up was called the LibreVNA for about $600. It's a two port VNA that hooks to the PC & software as a means to view things. That gave me 90/100db of dynamic range. Plus it was easier to navigate & set things up like markers & more over the Lite VNA 64. I knew the duplexer would exceed the dynamic range of that device. So I ordered a Siglent SSA3021X + Spectrum analyzer with TG for about $1800. To try & help get the rejects dialed in. Plus I figured it would be useful for the hobby. I used those to tune the duplexer. Then here just a couple months ago I picked up a Measall KC901J dual port VNA for about $1300. It's pretty nice & has lots of extra features as well. It's still only 100db of dynamic range. It's appeal to me over the LibreVNA was It's a self contained unit with It's own display.? Plus it was highly regarded by several people as being good quality for the cost. I've actually seen it go past 100db of dynamic range in these lower VHF ranges of 2M.
I know all together I spent a good bit for all 3 items. I could of
probably got a pretty good used old VNA. I don't really regret it though. I have some poor luck. I'd probably buy an old one then have something fail on it that's hard to get replaced. ??
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
I would like to have had that one. I'm sure someone grabbed it and paid a little less for it.
Mick - W7CAT
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Farrenkopf via groups.io" To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2025 12:24:41 PM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Desense is driving me crazy I saw a used Agilent 8753d with all the goodies in it (6ghz and tdr) sitting on the grass at Dayton this year for $850. I commented to him that it should be respected more and put on a table¡.. ?:)
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I¡¯m looking for the connector to go on the back or the whole cable kit for a dc backup on a quantar. Does anyone here have anything they would be willing to part with? I can¡¯t find anything online. Thanks!?
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Jared Smudde
N4FOX