My argument here is that the DTMF sequence is being sent out by public safety or Dispatch or whoever sets off the siren, probably even EOC, would be activating a repeater, and in that case, the DTMF is not generated by an amateur radio operator. It's been generated by a third-party, which I think is illegal. Chad Nelson WI9HF/WRPL979 Janesville Wisconsin 608-754-8671 Send from my spectrum iPhone 16.
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On May 26, 2025, at 5:20?PM, Tom Cole <tomcole1@...> wrote:
? Read the post. He doesn¡¯t want to rebroadcast anything, just send out a message that the sirens have been activated. But, even if he was , he can legally do it as long as it isn¡¯t something ¡°regularly done¡±, and it is permissible. It is no different that us sending out a message from our controller that the Skywarn net has been activated. I can send a DTMF sequence to the repeater and the controller keys the repeater stating that the Skywarn net is up. We also send out automatic messages about our weekly nets and special events. If it were illegal, it wouldn¡¯t be a feature of every repeater controller out there.? On May 26, 2025, at 5:12?PM, Chad Nelson <chad.nelson71@...> wrote:
? If I understand this, someone wants to use the alert tones from the frequency that the law-enforcement uses to activate the community sirens to announce over the ham repeater of a warning or siren activation? That to me sounds pretty illegal since at that point, the repeater would be operated by an unlicensed station in the ham band. Chad Nelson WI9HF/WRPL979 Janesville Wisconsin 608-754-8671 Send from my spectrum iPhone 16. On May 26, 2025, at 4:19?PM, Kory Oldham W4RZ <Kory@...> wrote:
?
Chris,
Wouldn't sending out a storm warning bulletin be legal and fall under the following? I say this with the thoughts of a simple message or even one with a little more detail, warning Hams of potential severe weather to warn them to protect their gear, would be direct interest to the amateur service.?
97.3 Definitions:
?
(26) Information bulletin. A message directed only to amateur operators consisting solely of subject matter of direct interest to the amateur service.
?
97.111 Authorized Transmissions:?
?
?
(6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins.
Kory
On 2025-05-26 16:56, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io wrote:
Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
?
Chris
WB5ITT
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
|
Hence my question of the OP - If this is the local volunteer fire
department siren alerting its members to respond to a fire, the
answer is a hard no as this is anther radio service.
No, it is not. It is a message from the repeater that the siren has been activated. The message transmitted could be anything. It is no different than an operator keying his microphone and making the announcement. It is emergency traffic.
If this siren is activated via an NWS SAME alert to warn the
population at large, IMO would make more sense to feed the alert
into the repeater audio chain, with the ability to silence it with
DTMF or even a triple-click of the microphone.
There are those here who, wrongfully, say that isn¡¯t legal. It is 100% legal.? 97:115 does not apply since it is not third party communications. Emergency communications from any source can be retransmitted.?
|
Hence my question of the OP - If this is the local volunteer fire
department siren alerting it's members to respond to a fire, the
answer is a hard no as this is anther radio service.
If this siren is activated via an NWS SAME alert to warn the
population at large, IMO would make more sense to feed the alert
into the repeater audio chain, with the ability to silence it with
DTMF or even a triple-click of the microphone.
97.115 (e)??
73
Martin Flynn
W2RWJ
On 5/26/2025 6:11 PM, Chad Nelson
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
If I understand this, someone wants to use the alert tones from
the frequency that the law-enforcement uses to activate the
community sirens to announce over the ham repeater of a warning or
siren activation? That to me sounds pretty illegal since at that
point, the repeater would be operated by an unlicensed station in
the ham band.
Chad Nelson WI9HF/WRPL979
Janesville Wisconsin
608-754-8671
Send from my spectrum iPhone 16.
On May 26, 2025, at 4:19?PM, Kory Oldham
W4RZ <Kory@...> wrote:
?
Chris,
Wouldn't sending out a storm warning bulletin be legal and
fall under the following? I say this with the thoughts of a
simple message or even one with a little more detail,
warning Hams of potential severe weather to warn them to
protect their gear, would be direct interest to the amateur
service.?
97.3 Definitions:
?
(26) Information bulletin. A message directed only
to amateur operators consisting solely of subject matter
of direct interest to the amateur service.
?
97.111 Authorized Transmissions:?
?
?
(6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate
information bulletins.
Kory
On 2025-05-26 16:56, Chris Boone WB5ITT
via groups.io wrote:
Having any announcement, etc on the
repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren
system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change
CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater
xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an
amateur station.
?
Chris
WB5ITT
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have
not told any one i will not transmit the tones just
operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will
not go out over the air?
?
|
would it be possible to have a club radio located at the activation site for the tied to the siren controller, that would send the alert message to the repeater? then? only be activated?if the?control location activated the sirens.
Byron KD7TLH
Read the post. He doesn¡¯t want to rebroadcast anything, just send out a message that the sirens have been activated. But, even if he was , he can legally do it as long as it isn¡¯t something ¡°regularly done¡±, and it is permissible. It is no different that us sending out a message from our controller that the Skywarn net has been activated. I can send a DTMF sequence to the repeater and the controller keys the repeater stating that the Skywarn net is up. We also send out automatic messages about our weekly nets and special events. If it were illegal, it wouldn¡¯t be a feature of every repeater controller out there.? ?If I understand this, someone wants to use the alert tones from the frequency that the law-enforcement uses to activate the community sirens to announce over the ham repeater of a warning or siren activation? That to me sounds pretty illegal since at that point, the repeater would be operated by an unlicensed station in the ham band. Chad Nelson WI9HF/WRPL979 Janesville Wisconsin 608-754-8671 Send from my spectrum iPhone 16. On May 26, 2025, at 4:19?PM, Kory Oldham W4RZ <Kory@...> wrote:
?
Chris,
Wouldn't sending out a storm warning bulletin be legal and fall under the following? I say this with the thoughts of a simple message or even one with a little more detail, warning Hams of potential severe weather to warn them to protect their gear, would be direct interest to the amateur service.?
97.3 Definitions:
?
(26) Information bulletin. A message directed only to amateur operators consisting solely of subject matter of direct interest to the amateur service.
?
97.111 Authorized Transmissions:?
?
?
(6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins.
Kory
On 2025-05-26 16:56, Chris Boone WB5ITT via wrote:
Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
?
Chris
WB5ITT
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
|
Read the post. He doesn¡¯t want to rebroadcast anything, just send out a message that the sirens have been activated. But, even if he was , he can legally do it as long as it isn¡¯t something ¡°regularly done¡±, and it is permissible. It is no different that us sending out a message from our controller that the Skywarn net has been activated. I can send a DTMF sequence to the repeater and the controller keys the repeater stating that the Skywarn net is up. We also send out automatic messages about our weekly nets and special events. If it were illegal, it wouldn¡¯t be a feature of every repeater controller out there.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 26, 2025, at 5:12?PM, Chad Nelson <chad.nelson71@...> wrote:
? If I understand this, someone wants to use the alert tones from the frequency that the law-enforcement uses to activate the community sirens to announce over the ham repeater of a warning or siren activation? That to me sounds pretty illegal since at that point, the repeater would be operated by an unlicensed station in the ham band. Chad Nelson WI9HF/WRPL979 Janesville Wisconsin 608-754-8671 Send from my spectrum iPhone 16. On May 26, 2025, at 4:19?PM, Kory Oldham W4RZ <Kory@...> wrote:
?
Chris,
Wouldn't sending out a storm warning bulletin be legal and fall under the following? I say this with the thoughts of a simple message or even one with a little more detail, warning Hams of potential severe weather to warn them to protect their gear, would be direct interest to the amateur service.?
97.3 Definitions:
?
(26) Information bulletin. A message directed only to amateur operators consisting solely of subject matter of direct interest to the amateur service.
?
97.111 Authorized Transmissions:?
?
?
(6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins.
Kory
On 2025-05-26 16:56, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io wrote:
Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
?
Chris
WB5ITT
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
|
If I understand this, someone wants to use the alert tones from the frequency that the law-enforcement uses to activate the community sirens to announce over the ham repeater of a warning or siren activation? That to me sounds pretty illegal since at that point, the repeater would be operated by an unlicensed station in the ham band. Chad Nelson WI9HF/WRPL979 Janesville Wisconsin 608-754-8671 Send from my spectrum iPhone 16.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 26, 2025, at 4:19?PM, Kory Oldham W4RZ <Kory@...> wrote:
?
Chris,
Wouldn't sending out a storm warning bulletin be legal and fall under the following? I say this with the thoughts of a simple message or even one with a little more detail, warning Hams of potential severe weather to warn them to protect their gear, would be direct interest to the amateur service.?
97.3 Definitions:
?
(26) Information bulletin. A message directed only to amateur operators consisting solely of subject matter of direct interest to the amateur service.
?
97.111 Authorized Transmissions:?
?
?
(6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins.
Kory
On 2025-05-26 16:56, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io wrote:
Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
?
Chris
WB5ITT
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
|
Zero chance of interfering with the sirens since he will only be using a receiver to decode and activate a message that the sirens have been activated (¡°The tornado sirens have been activated in our area. Take appropriate precautions ¡°) In an emergency, you use ANY AND ALL MEANS to notify the people. Some people think the bands should only be used to talk about what rigs ?you have or what antenna.?
If that were the case, the FCC would not be issuing club call signs for all these repeaters.? If we were in California, I can envision using the repeaters to notify people of where the wildfires are. In tornado alley, we certainly use them to notify people of where the tornadoes are, and to notify the NWS if any ham operator spots a tornado, flooding, storm damage, etc. In fact, the NWS works very closely with the ham community through the Skywarn program.?
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On May 26, 2025, at 4:34?PM, Milton Engle via groups.io <n3ltq@...> wrote:
? There is far too much chance of improper or malicious mucking about in this scenario.
Let¡¯s start by asking why you feel that it is necessary to make any sort of indication that the sirens have been activated, and on what radio service.
Perhaps your repeater is located in ¡°tornado alley¡±?
Does the National Weather Service not cover your area with their broadcasts?
Milt? N3LTQ
On May 26, 2025, at 16:56, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io <setxtelecom@...> wrote:
? Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
Chris WB5ITT Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
|
I¡¯m reading it as a siren to warn of imminent danger to the community. Only the OP knows at this point. Even if it is a call for a VFD members, it would still be classified as emergency communications and since it would not be a regular event(I.e. every week) it is permissible. Many repeater systems legally use the SAME tones from the NWS to automatically broadcast tornado warnings, and to automatically activate the Skywarn nets. Once Skywarn is activated, the controller sends out a message every 20 minutes to that effect. Perfectly legal.
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On May 26, 2025, at 4:22?PM, M Flynn via groups.io <maflynn@...> wrote:
?
Tom,
I had to go back and read the original post, and have a question
for the OP:??
"i
am looking for a dtmf decoder to connect to a receiver to decode
our local EMA whelen siren to give a message on the repeater
that the sirens have been activated i monitor the frequency that
they activate the sirens on and the dtmf is very fast i am sure
different tone sequence has different meanings i just want an
announcement that the sirens were set off ,any thoughts ? "
Is
this siren operated by the EMA a tornado or other public
warning device, or is it fire siren or similar??
VY
73
Martin
Flynn
W2RWJ
On 5/26/2025 5:14 PM, Tom Cole wrote:
?
Chris,?
?You love to say something is illegal with nothing to back
it up. You most certainly can automatically re broadcast
emergency information, or in this case, broadcast a message
that the emergency alert system has been activated. Cite and
quote verbatim your passages to the contrary. Many systems
automatically re broadcast the alerts from the NWS using the
SAME codes to key the transmitter. All that is required is
that the control operator can kill the transmission if
needed.?
Hint, 97:113 specifically allows what he is wanting to do.
Read it for comprehension, instead of with your normal bias.?
On May 26, 2025, at 3:56?PM, Chris
Boone WB5ITT via groups.io
<setxtelecom@...> wrote:
?
Having any announcement, etc on the
repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren
system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change
CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater
xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an
amateur station.
Chris
WB5ITT
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have
not told any one i will not transmit the tones just
operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will
not go out over the air?
?
|
There is far too much chance of improper or malicious mucking about in this scenario.
Let¡¯s start by asking why you feel that it is necessary to make any sort of indication that the sirens have been activated, and on what radio service.
Perhaps your repeater is located in ¡°tornado alley¡±?
Does the National Weather Service not cover your area with their broadcasts?
Milt? N3LTQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 26, 2025, at 16:56, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io <setxtelecom@...> wrote:
? Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
Chris WB5ITT Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
|
Tom,
I had to go back and read the original post, and have a question
for the OP:??
"i
am looking for a dtmf decoder to connect to a receiver to decode
our local EMA whelen siren to give a message on the repeater
that the sirens have been activated i monitor the frequency that
they activate the sirens on and the dtmf is very fast i am sure
different tone sequence has different meanings i just want an
announcement that the sirens were set off ,any thoughts ? "
Is
this siren operated by the EMA a tornado or other public
warning device, or is it fire siren or similar??
VY
73
Martin
Flynn
W2RWJ
On 5/26/2025 5:14 PM, Tom Cole wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Chris,?
?You love to say something is illegal with nothing to back
it up. You most certainly can automatically re broadcast
emergency information, or in this case, broadcast a message
that the emergency alert system has been activated. Cite and
quote verbatim your passages to the contrary. Many systems
automatically re broadcast the alerts from the NWS using the
SAME codes to key the transmitter. All that is required is
that the control operator can kill the transmission if
needed.?
Hint, 97:113 specifically allows what he is wanting to do.
Read it for comprehension, instead of with your normal bias.?
On May 26, 2025, at 3:56?PM, Chris
Boone WB5ITT via groups.io
<setxtelecom@...> wrote:
?
Having any announcement, etc on the
repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren
system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change
CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater
xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an
amateur station.
Chris
WB5ITT
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have
not told any one i will not transmit the tones just
operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will
not go out over the air?
?
|
Chris,
Wouldn't sending out a storm warning bulletin be legal and fall under the following? I say this with the thoughts of a simple message or even one with a little more detail, warning Hams of potential severe weather to warn them to protect their gear, would be direct interest to the amateur service.?
97.3 Definitions:
?
(26) Information bulletin. A message directed only to amateur operators consisting solely of subject matter of direct interest to the amateur service.
?
97.111 Authorized Transmissions:?
?
?
(6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins.
Kory
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2025-05-26 16:56, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io wrote:
Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
?
Chris
WB5ITT
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
|
? Chris,? ?You love to say something is illegal with nothing to back it up. You most certainly can automatically re broadcast emergency information, or in this case, broadcast a message that the emergency alert system has been activated. Cite and quote verbatim your passages to the contrary. Many systems automatically re broadcast the alerts from the NWS using the SAME codes to key the transmitter. All that is required is that the control operator can kill the transmission if needed.?
Hint, 97:113 specifically allows what he is wanting to do. Read it for comprehension, instead of with your normal bias.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 26, 2025, at 3:56?PM, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io <setxtelecom@...> wrote:
? Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
Chris WB5ITT Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
|
Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
Chris WB5ITT
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
|
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
|
Re: Midland 91-1110 Basetech III intermittent receive
Thanks Chris,
?
I'll try to make a call and see if I can get to him.? I looked on LinkedIn, hoping I could find him there, but no luck.
?
ron
KA3JIJ
|
One comment, on the cable from the sig gen to the iso-T there should be a 50 Ohm load at the T to make the sig gen happy, feeding a good load, just don't feed the T will open coaxial cable at the T.
?
Many T connectors have center pins not easily removed.? As suggested get Amphonel.? Need center pin that can be unscrewed replacing it with a screw.
?
73, ron, n9ee
|
If you can monitor the signal sent to the ema receiver. I would use something like a small sdr (rtl-sdr) with multimon-ng (?) that can run on a small raspberry?pi. If you find the good dtmf string you can monitor for it and then send a flag to the repeater, with whatever?method you can use with your repeater.?
i am looking for a dtmf decoder to connect to a receiver to decode our local ema whelen siren to give a message on the repeater that the sirens have been activated i monitor the frequency that they activate the sirens on and the dtmf is very fast i am sure different tone sequence has different meanings i just want an announcement that the sirens were set off ,any thoughts ? Thanks?
|
DTMF decoders are easy and I have several made by Motron that store and read out the DTMF sequence. However, the RF frequency and codes for setting off community sirens is not public information and if its known expect people to set off the sirens maliciously.
|
i am looking for a dtmf decoder to connect to a receiver to decode our local ema whelen siren to give a message on the repeater that the sirens have been activated i monitor the frequency that they activate the sirens on and the dtmf is very fast i am sure different tone sequence has different meanings i just want an announcement that the sirens were set off ,any thoughts ? Thanks?
|
Re: VXR-9000 and Trident Raider
I'm pulling the discriminator audio off the VXR-9000 from PIN 6 which the manual states is 0-3000 Hz Analog output.? There's also an PIN 23 RXD HIGH that?is a Digital Output for DATA Communications. I don't know if that would make a difference.
?
I threw my test LTR user into CTCSS mode with a PL of 94.8 and it would fully key up the repeater but the transmit would drop out after a few seconds but keep the CARRIER and RECEIVE LED lit up, obviously it must not be liking the audio and data its receiving.
?
I know there's 3 jumpers to mess with but the manual doesn't say what each jumper does, hence why I haven't messed with them yet.
|
Chris Boone WB5ITT
Pierre Martel
Jared Smudde