Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Harold
?That's interesting. The cans are suspended in the air. So they don't touch the cabinet mostly. I'll take that into consideration though. I greatly appreciate the help in trying to help diagnose things.?
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?Im debating on trying to re-orient the cans for a different harness layout than the one I came up with (photo below). I tried to make the rg214 flow around nicely. I did notice I have the main TX coming in & going right by the 2 & 3rd RX cavity cable. I doubt that's really much of an issue, but maybe it is & I don't realize it. This thought was born from using the TinySA Ultra as a signal generator. When I'd place it by the cables trying to get the receiver to hear the generator. I thought..we'll if I'm able to to do that..perhaps there is something happening there with the unfiltered TX line being right beside an already filtered RX line. ??¡á? likey just my mind wandering, lack of sleep & aggravation talking.?
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You'l would probably need to build something, but you could use an 8870 tone decoder and take the DTMF strobe signal to feed a Latch circuit, That way you don't need an exact code.
Then use that signal to either trigger a macro on your repeater controller that can do something low-key like change your courtesy tone or tail message to say "Weather Alert" every 5th key up or so.
And you can probably program another macro to clear your latch after say 2 or 4 hours.
Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Setting the insertion loss higher will improve the mid band isolation too.?
I forgot about the cabinet. Take them out of the cabinet. There might be some coupling through the bottom covers to the metal of the cabinet. The bottom covers are only riveted to the can in 3 places and that friction fit of the cover to cylinder might not be enough for the isolation desired for that radio.?
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Re: F/S MicroMagic UHF duplexer 6 cavity
If anyone is interested, I'll be selling?some of my 6 packs......BNC and N type connectors ......
Let me know..
Likewise, I'd be interested in the duplexer if it hasn't sold as it's on the pair most of my GMRS repeaters are on. Let me know. I can pay multiple ways.
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73,
Chuck | N2DUP | KAB3210
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That's my point exactly Chris, that's what I was trying to say that you cannot have someone sending out DTMF tones that's going to somehow along a chain control and amateur repeater that is not legal. Chad Nelson WI9HF/WRPL979 Janesville Wisconsin 608-754-8671 Send from my spectrum iPhone 16.
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On May 26, 2025, at 9:41?PM, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io <setxtelecom@...> wrote:
? NO you cannot... you cannot have a lawn amateur controlling an amateur transmitter! It doesn't matter the situation unless it's a life or death emergency for that person.
Dude I've dealt with the FCC for 40 damn years. I've have known several people in Washington as well as the local engineers in charge of both the Dallas and the Houston office. I know what I'm talking about
Chris WB5ITT? ?Chris,? ?You love to say something is illegal with nothing to back it up. You most certainly can automatically re broadcast emergency information, or in this case, broadcast a message that the emergency alert system has been activated. Cite and quote verbatim your passages to the contrary. Many systems automatically re broadcast the alerts from the NWS using the SAME codes to key the transmitter. All that is required is that the control operator can kill the transmission if needed.?
Hint, 97:113 specifically allows what he is wanting to do. Read it for comprehension, instead of with your normal bias.? On May 26, 2025, at 3:56?PM, Chris Boone WB5ITT via <setxtelecom=[email protected]> wrote:
? Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
Chris WB5ITT Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Harold,
Thank for the information. I may try that here later this week. Perhaps tomorrow if I have time.
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After cleaning all the loops & connectors, yesterday I adjusted everything to -.5db IL per cavity, -26/27 RL & -37/38 db notches. Then tried it again. It was actually better today testing. But with the 100wt PA I could still hear something a bit undesirable.
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?Also yes you're correct, everything does just about fall into place with individual tuning then putting the harness I made on. There isn't really much that needs adjustments, just touch up a bit.?
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So just because it was mentioned earlier about trying the original harness. I decided heck why not give that a go. Maybe it will tell me if the harness I made is problematic or not. I had to swap two cans around to go back to the factory layout. Then put it on. Adjusted the rejects with the spectrum analyzer. They needed to be moved a good bit. Then I put the vna on. The return losses were awful, -16/17db & odd looking. So after that I said screw this idea. ?. I'm not going to start playing musical rods for the passes to see if I can fix the return losses then readjust the notches again.?
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?I had to put my test cables away & go do something else. It was starting to get way too aggravating.?
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Also to Kevin,
?I think I remember you posting that part number for the harness last year when I was initially buying these cans. I appreciate you sharing that information. I just wasn't able to get information contact with anyone at Sinclair. So I ended up.making one.?
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There is another company in Canada called JagRF that makes harnesses as well. I believe it was about $430 dollars I was quoted for one from them. Idk if that's changed now or not.?
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Honestly with what I have invested in these cans, the harness I made & some of the equipment to make adjustments. I could of bought a brand new set of cans. ?
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Re: Kenwood TK790 problems
Finally got back at the radios.....?? Turns out it was only 2 radios with the transmit audio problems.
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Testing with known good parts revealed the following......? ! All mics are good,? 2 All control heads are good,? 3 All remote cables are good.?
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the problem is with the KRK-5 dash to remote mount adapter.? .... It will pass receive audio, allow reading and writing of radio but will not pass mic audio.? Strangest thing these problems are with radios that ARE currently installed and were working for several years. There appears to be no corrosion or anything in them, and reseating cables has no effect.?? We are going to find new plates and move on
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Just wanted to give everyone an update.
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Howard
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If you say so. NOT. Have a blessed day.?
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On May 26, 2025, at 9:41?PM, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io <setxtelecom@...> wrote:
? NO you cannot... you cannot have a lawn amateur controlling an amateur transmitter! It doesn't matter the situation unless it's a life or death emergency for that person.
Dude I've dealt with the FCC for 40 damn years. I've have known several people in Washington as well as the local engineers in charge of both the Dallas and the Houston office. I know what I'm talking about
Chris WB5ITT? ?Chris,? ?You love to say something is illegal with nothing to back it up. You most certainly can automatically re broadcast emergency information, or in this case, broadcast a message that the emergency alert system has been activated. Cite and quote verbatim your passages to the contrary. Many systems automatically re broadcast the alerts from the NWS using the SAME codes to key the transmitter. All that is required is that the control operator can kill the transmission if needed.?
Hint, 97:113 specifically allows what he is wanting to do. Read it for comprehension, instead of with your normal bias.? On May 26, 2025, at 3:56?PM, Chris Boone WB5ITT via <setxtelecom=[email protected]> wrote:
? Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
Chris WB5ITT Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
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Re: F/S MicroMagic UHF duplexer 6 cavity
Likewise, I'd be interested in the duplexer if it hasn't sold as it's on the pair most of my GMRS repeaters are on. Let me know. I can pay multiple ways.
?
73,
Chuck | N2DUP | KAB3210
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
If all fails and the radio needs more isolation, you can always adjust the cans for 0.7dB insertion loss and get more than 110 dB isolation. ?Tune each can for the pass and reject frequencies and since you made correct?? new cables, the notches should add without changing frequencies. Connect the 4 cans closest to the antenna and fine tune those 4 then add the 3rd can and just go with that. You can check with your equipment the best that your equipment can display and if it looks ok, connect your radio and do your desense tests. If there is still some desense, you may want to adjust the notches using a signal generator at the antenna and receiver on the equipment port for the noisiest signal. I prefer using a carrier with a 1khz tone at 3khz deviation (SINAD type signal). This will give you more dynamic range than your VNAs have. ?Do that for the rx side to reject the tx frequency and the tx side to reject the rx frequency.?
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You cannot have a Non amateur
Stupid speech to text
NO you cannot... you cannot have a lawn amateur controlling an amateur transmitter! It doesn't matter the situation unless it's a life or death emergency for that person.
Dude I've dealt with the FCC for 40 damn years. I've have known several people in Washington as well as the local engineers in charge of both the Dallas and the Houston office. I know what I'm talking about
Chris WB5ITT?
?Chris,? ?You love to say something is illegal with nothing to back it up. You most certainly can automatically re broadcast emergency information, or in this case, broadcast a message that the emergency alert system has been activated. Cite and quote verbatim your passages to the contrary. Many systems automatically re broadcast the alerts from the NWS using the SAME codes to key the transmitter. All that is required is that the control operator can kill the transmission if needed.?
Hint, 97:113 specifically allows what he is wanting to do. Read it for comprehension, instead of with your normal bias.? On May 26, 2025, at 3:56?PM, Chris Boone WB5ITT via <setxtelecom=[email protected]> wrote:
? Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
Chris WB5ITT Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
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NO you cannot... you cannot have a lawn amateur controlling an amateur transmitter! It doesn't matter the situation unless it's a life or death emergency for that person.
Dude I've dealt with the FCC for 40 damn years. I've have known several people in Washington as well as the local engineers in charge of both the Dallas and the Houston office. I know what I'm talking about
Chris WB5ITT?
?Chris,? ?You love to say something is illegal with nothing to back it up. You most certainly can automatically re broadcast emergency information, or in this case, broadcast a message that the emergency alert system has been activated. Cite and quote verbatim your passages to the contrary. Many systems automatically re broadcast the alerts from the NWS using the SAME codes to key the transmitter. All that is required is that the control operator can kill the transmission if needed.?
Hint, 97:113 specifically allows what he is wanting to do. Read it for comprehension, instead of with your normal bias.? On May 26, 2025, at 3:56?PM, Chris Boone WB5ITT via <setxtelecom=[email protected]> wrote:
? Having any announcement, etc on the repeater output automatically from the Wheelan siren system is not allowed under Part 97.....You?COULD change CT or something similar but it cannot key the repeater xmtr when it decodes..that is improper control of an amateur station.
Chris WB5ITT Thanks Mike i know the frequency they use i have not told any one i will not transmit the tones just operate a relay when the tones are decoded they will not go out over the air?
?
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Decades ago, when Wacom was still around, I tried to get Kit Parsons to send me to Dayton as his representative since the landmobile radio expo was the same week in Vegas. He liked the idea but his lawyers said no.. sold a lot of Wacom for Kit in Southeast Texas and Southwest Louisiana back in the 80s thru talking with other repeater owners. Was sorry to see him sell
Chris WB5ITT?
At 5/25/2025 04:08 PM, you wrote:
¡°Whats odd is I've heard several
stories about how Hams have got help from Sinclair & they were happy
to help out. One fella told me he talked to a Mr. Sinclair about some
duplexers years back. Idk if that's true or not but it sounded
nice.¡°
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That was the past¡.? Dr. George Sinclair was a ham .? I was
there 1988 to 1991 and 2000 to 2001.? I returned the second time and
was given verbal assurance and promises that I could continue doing my
own consulting on the side but when I did, they didn¡¯t like it and I got
let go (with adequate severance). They lost their ham friendly attitude
when the hams left and when the company was sold. I know I helped many
hams during my time and they used to get 25% off list prices.
The only duplexer manufacturer that I regularly see at the Dayton
Hamvention is TX RX Systems.? If you're looking for something new I
think they're worth looking into.
Bob NO6B
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Re: F/S MicroMagic UHF duplexer 6 cavity
I have several I was holding for a uhf backbone link network but it's likely never gonna happen...guess I need to start thining the herd
Chris WB5ITT?
If the others should fall through, I'm interested as well.
Adam, W8FLH?
I have for sale this Micro Magic 6 cavity flat pack duplexer in very good shape.
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Currently tuned for 462.65TX
467.65 RX with N female connectors.
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model: MICRO-4201-C6-3
S/N: 011422010
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This is lightly used but has a couple of minor scratches, but otherwise works great. I believe this is able to be tuned into the 70cm ham band if desired.
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I will ship for $75.00, brand new over $160.00
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I have jumpers for TX and RX if needed, will throw those in.
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73 Chad WI9HF
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
We recently put a new UHF repeater up locally.? I was able to procure a NOS still in the box set of TX RX cans.? I called?them to ask about the cables between the cavities and they quickly told me they had a "ham" kit available and sent me a quote.? Included a ham discount as well.? Great service.
73,
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Re: F/S MicroMagic UHF duplexer 6 cavity
If the others should fall through, I'm interested as well.
Adam, W8FLH?
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Show quoted text
I have for sale this Micro Magic 6 cavity flat pack duplexer in very good shape.
?
Currently tuned for 462.65TX
467.65 RX with N female connectors.
?
model: MICRO-4201-C6-3
S/N: 011422010
?
This is lightly used but has a couple of minor scratches, but otherwise works great. I believe this is able to be tuned into the 70cm ham band if desired.
?
I will ship for $75.00, brand new over $160.00
?
I have jumpers for TX and RX if needed, will throw those in.
?
73 Chad WI9HF
?
?
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Re: Desense is driving me crazy
Bob,
?TX/RX seems to make some good stuff.?
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As for the NanoRFE. It is cheaper. Seems to be about 90db of dynamic range. Im not sure if its on par with that LibreVNA or not with the extra stuff the LibreVNA does. They both seem to be in metal box enclosures at least. The next model up the Nano type sells that does 110db is somewhere around $1600. I had joined the user group for those devices. But there just didnt seem to be much discussion about them. There wasn't much about them on YouTube or any good reviews I could find that discussed them. But in all honesty there wasn't much about the LibreVNA either, but there were a few I could find at least. Plus the developer seemed active in the user group. So that was a bonus.?
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As for the Siglent Spectrum analyzer I bought. It had a good bit of feedback about them. Plus some additional perks I read on a popular test equipment forum. That same forum is also where I was turned onto the Measall VNAs.?
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?I'll admit..I still watch ebay about daily for VNAs like what's commercially used. I'd really rather have one that does 120/130 db of dynamic range one day. I probably need it like I need another health problem though.?
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Aside from that I have looked around online for various information. I came across something interesting. Where it was mentioned that older analog equipment is actually easier to work with in duplex operations. You'd need less isolation for it. Because the transmitter signals were more spot on. They were saying transmitters now days can be so noisy & receivers can be like barn doors on some equipment. That you need all the isolation you can get. I've seen lots of post where people reference that exact stuff about these DR-2X machines too.?
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?Im starting to think I might be going back to motorola equipment next year. Not just because of this issue, but a few reasons. I've been having some issues with other yaesu radios I own. Plus I've been turned off by their user groups experiences. I'll ask questions that never get post approval. So then I never get any real user feedback for help making certain decisions. Im always sus when information is controlled so thoroughly that you can't ask questions.?
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Re: F/S MicroMagic UHF duplexer 6 cavity
Chad
Please contact me off of here cenglody@...?
Chuck N3lad
On Mon, May 26, 2025 at 9:07 PM, Chad Nelson <chad.nelson71@...> wrote: I have for sale this Micro Magic 6 cavity flat pack duplexer in very good shape. ? Currently tuned for 462.65TX 467.65 RX with N female connectors. ? model: MICRO-4201-C6-3
S/N: 011422010 ? This is lightly used but has a couple of minor scratches, but otherwise works great. I believe this is able to be tuned into the 70cm ham band if desired. ? I will ship for $75.00, brand new over $160.00 ? I have jumpers for TX and RX if needed, will throw those in. ? 73 Chad WI9HF ? ? ?      
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Re: F/S MicroMagic UHF duplexer 6 cavity
Chad Please contact me off of here .cenglody@...? Thanks Chuck n3lad
On Mon, May 26, 2025 at 9:07 PM, Chad Nelson <chad.nelson71@...> wrote: I have for sale this Micro Magic 6 cavity flat pack duplexer in very good shape. ? Currently tuned for 462.65TX 467.65 RX with N female connectors. ? model: MICRO-4201-C6-3
S/N: 011422010 ? This is lightly used but has a couple of minor scratches, but otherwise works great. I believe this is able to be tuned into the 70cm ham band if desired. ? I will ship for $75.00, brand new over $160.00 ? I have jumpers for TX and RX if needed, will throw those in. ? 73 Chad WI9HF ? ? ?      
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Re: F/S MicroMagic UHF duplexer 6 cavity
New they're more like 400 these days!!
On Mon, May 26, 2025, 8:07?PM Chad Nelson via <chad.nelson71= [email protected]> wrote: I have for sale this Micro Magic 6 cavity flat pack duplexer in very good shape.? Currently tuned for 462.65TX 467.65 RX with N female connectors. ? model: MICRO-4201-C6-3
S/N: 011422010 ? This is lightly used but has a couple of minor scratches, but otherwise works great. I believe this is able to be tuned into the 70cm ham band if desired. ? I will ship for $75.00, brand new over $160.00 ? I have jumpers for TX and RX if needed, will throw those in. ? 73 Chad WI9HF ? ? ?      
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N4FOX
Chris Boone WB5ITT
