You really want to run the PA at or close to full power.? They really do not like running at lower output.?
Go into the service mode in the RSS and run the PA initialization routine...you'll need a wattmeter on the output to read and put that amount in the screen and save.
Running a 100w at 25-30 is only recommended on battery during AC power out
Chris WB5ITT?
On Mon, May 12, 2025, 7:03?AM herbie.graham via <herbie.graham= [email protected]> wrote: I an using a 125w pa and I have the software setting to 25w is there any that I can increase the output to 30 -35w?
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I an using a 125w pa and I have the software setting to 25w is there any that I can increase the output to 30 -35w?
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Re: quantar use for 2meter repeater
Thanks for all your help
I have solved the problem
On the channel info screen the analogue rptr access needed to be changed from MDC/tone? to none
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Re: PD526 Duplexer Tuning
Update on pd526:
I tuned it on a recently calibrated r2670 and it tuned up nicely and easily.
Less than an hour. Field tests show very little desense. Zero reflection on a bird 43 between tx and duplexer and 50w tpo into duplexer and over 30 out on duplexer antenna port. Sensitively through duplexer breaks at -119dbm.
I'm quite happy with how it is presently working.
The antenna is presently indoors in my 1st floor apartment on a tripod in the bedroom. It's just an aluminum maybe 5dbi Antenna with 25ft of 1/4 inch hardline from duplexer to antenna and I have 1/4 inch hardline jumpers. From inside a vehicle at a stop light about 3 to 4mi away as a crow flies I was able to key the repeater with a 4w motorola portable with a audible signal albeit with lot of static but still quite audible. I think once it's up at the hospital on a proper antenna system it will work like gangbusters. If you all want to look it up. The antenna is 2 blocks west of Ave I and w20th st on w 20th in Scottsbluff and I keyed it from 10th St and U st in gering with my portable. Both cities in Nebraska. To give you an idea of the range testing results.
Once on the hospital it will be on a comet g6 with a comet diplexer 2m 145.475 and my gmrs 550 all 1/2 inch hardline for main transmission line.
We have a g6 on a 700 machine about 200ft higher and it has county wide portable coverage and a mobile got in from 50mi away.
The repeater is a uhf range 2 high power quantar turned down to 50w.
Thanks for everyone's help.
I have an issue with tuning a duplexer. As you can see from the pictures the high pass looks good but the low pass has a double peak. I am having an issue trying to merge that double peak into one peak. Any suggestions? Do I have an issue with a high side can or do I just need to keep at it?
Thanks
Robert
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You said there was desense with the tx power all the way to nothing. Was it the same level of desense using the iso-T and if so, then the problem is site noise floor. ?You have to track down the source first before you can start to fix it.?
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Re: Repeater Remote Monitoring System?
Andy....market that and sell them!!! I'll be your first customer!!
Jon
Kf6phx
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I use an arduino nano.?? I monitor RF power, Voltage, PA current, temperature, and signal strength remotely.?? I use the talker library and it announces all that back to me via DTMF control. ? You have to write code, but it works.?? (And costs less than
$3)
Andy
WJ9J
Is anyone aware of a ham-priced friendly remote monitoring system??
?
At work we installed a system from TASC Systems product called a Summit.? It provided analog voltage monitoring and alarm closure consolidation for our Kenwood NextEdge trunking systems.? Nice toys, but too pricey for us poor hams.
?
I'd think there would be an opportunity to have something based on a Raspberry Pi or other SBC that could do the same thing to monitor power levels (with appropriate RF sensors) as well as power supply voltages and contact closures.??
?
Anyone know of a DIY system like this for us hams?
?
73, Rod N1FNE
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Re: Repeater Remote Monitoring System?
I use an arduino nano.?? I monitor RF power, Voltage, PA current, temperature, and signal strength remotely.?? I use the talker library and it announces all that back to me via DTMF control. ? You have to write code, but it works.?? (And costs less than $3)
Andy WJ9J
Is anyone aware of a ham-priced friendly remote monitoring system??
?
At work we installed a system from TASC Systems product called a Summit.? It provided analog voltage monitoring and alarm closure consolidation for our Kenwood NextEdge trunking systems.? Nice toys, but too pricey for us poor hams.
?
I'd think there would be an opportunity to have something based on a Raspberry Pi or other SBC that could do the same thing to monitor power levels (with appropriate RF sensors) as well as power supply voltages and contact closures.??
?
Anyone know of a DIY system like this for us hams?
?
73, Rod N1FNE
|
That has nothing to do with the desense. ? ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of DCFluX via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2025 10:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Major Desense? Replace the electrolytic capacitors on the PA of your MSR-2000. ? At 5/11/2025 05:22 PM, you wrote:
Mike, I have a site where the 224 on the VHF repeater is now about 3 feet from a T mobile antenna. Today, the cell electronics, including RF is up on the tower. The boxes are fed with 48 vdc and fiber. If I run 40 watts of RF on the MTR-2000 I have over 40 dB of desensing. I am running 1 watt right now which brings me down to about 10 dB of desensing. In a month of two I will have a tower climber look around for me. I am planning on installing a huster G6 as a transmit anteena, on the other side to the water tower ( the antenna will be clear of the water tower "dome". There will be no cell antennas close to it.
I have a telewave 6 cavity duplexer, that into a dummy load has no desense. None. I am convinced that my 147 MHz RF is into the broad band amps, and they are doing a wonderful job of spitting it back. I cann't yell at them ,they pay rent!
When I first moved into my home in the late '90s I could not operate a 2 meter repeater from here: switched mode power supplies in cable TV set top boxes in the neighbors' homes would mix my output to my input.? Then streaming happened & everyone got rid of their STBs, & now I can duplex on 2 meters but now the noise floor from LED street lighting makes the repeater deaf at night.
Bob NO6B
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Replace the electrolytic capacitors on the PA of your MSR-2000.
At 5/11/2025 05:22 PM, you wrote:
Mike, I have a site where the
224 on the VHF repeater is now about 3 feet from a T mobile antenna.
Today, the cell electronics, including RF is up on the tower. The boxes
are fed with 48 vdc and fiber. If I run 40 watts of RF on the MTR-2000 I
have over 40 dB of desensing. I am running 1 watt right now which brings
me down to about 10 dB of desensing. In a month of two I will have a
tower climber look around for me. I am planning on installing a huster G6
as a transmit anteena, on the other side to the water tower ( the antenna
will be clear of the water tower "dome". There will be no cell
antennas close to it.
I have a telewave 6 cavity duplexer, that into a dummy load has no
desense. None. I am convinced that my 147 MHz RF is into the broad band
amps, and they are doing a wonderful job of spitting it back. I cann't
yell at them ,they pay rent!
When I first moved into my home in the late '90s I could not operate a 2
meter repeater from here: switched mode power supplies in cable TV set
top boxes in the neighbors' homes would mix my output to my input.?
Then streaming happened & everyone got rid of their STBs, & now I
can duplex on 2 meters but now the noise floor from LED street lighting
makes the repeater deaf at night.
Bob NO6B
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Re: Repeater Remote Monitoring System?
We use a pi3b+ with a NodeRed app. We view the app on our club website. Currently, we monitor which of our 4 receivers are active, and show the elapsed time since the receiver went active. We have plans to do more...
We also have a mechanism to remotely manage which repeaters are linked, but that web page is a secret. :)
If you're not a programmer or developer, there might be a steep?learning curve.
Is anyone aware of a ham-priced friendly remote monitoring system??
?
At work we installed a system from TASC Systems product called a Summit.? It provided analog voltage monitoring and alarm closure consolidation for our Kenwood NextEdge trunking systems.? Nice toys, but too pricey for us poor hams.
?
I'd think there would be an opportunity to have something based on a Raspberry Pi or other SBC that could do the same thing to monitor power levels (with appropriate RF sensors) as well as power supply voltages and contact closures.??
?
Anyone know of a DIY system like this for us hams?
?
73, Rod N1FNE
|
Re: Repeater Remote Monitoring System?
On 2025-05-11 9:48 p.m., Rod Lane wrote: Is anyone aware of a ham-priced friendly remote monitoring system?
At work we installed a system from TASC Systems product called a Summit.? It provided analog voltage monitoring and alarm closure consolidation for our Kenwood NextEdge trunking systems.? Nice toys, but too pricey for us poor hams.
I'd think there would be an opportunity to have something based on a Raspberry Pi or other SBC that could do the same thing to monitor power levels (with appropriate RF sensors) as well as power supply voltages and contact closures.
Anyone know of a DIY system like this for us hams? <-- Hi Rod; check out "Node Red".? I set it up some time ago... it does require considerable time investment (but it's free!); it will run on a Pi; you will have to buy some I/O stuff (relay board, ADC, contact closures, etc. is all possible!). There is a groups.io forum for NR; they do seem to have some pretty neat "flows" and some good tutorials / YouTube videos available. I just didn't have the time to fully explore it.? I may return to it in the Winter of 2025/2026, once I get my repeater projects off my bench :). Cheers, Ramesh, VA3UV, WA3UV
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Repeater Remote Monitoring System?
Is anyone aware of a ham-priced friendly remote monitoring system??
?
At work we installed a system from TASC Systems product called a Summit.? It provided analog voltage monitoring and alarm closure consolidation for our Kenwood NextEdge trunking systems.? Nice toys, but too pricey for us poor hams.
?
I'd think there would be an opportunity to have something based on a Raspberry Pi or other SBC that could do the same thing to monitor power levels (with appropriate RF sensors) as well as power supply voltages and contact closures.??
?
Anyone know of a DIY system like this for us hams?
?
73, Rod N1FNE
|
At 5/11/2025 05:22 PM, you wrote:
Mike, I have a site where the
224 on the VHF repeater is now about 3 feet from a T mobile antenna.
Today, the cell electronics, including RF is up on the tower. The boxes
are fed with 48 vdc and fiber. If I run 40 watts of RF on the MTR-2000 I
have over 40 dB of desensing. I am running 1 watt right now which brings
me down to about 10 dB of desensing. In a month of two I will have a
tower climber look around for me. I am planning on installing a huster G6
as a transmit anteena, on the other side to the water tower ( the antenna
will be clear of the water tower "dome". There will be no cell
antennas close to it.
I have a telewave 6 cavity duplexer, that into a dummy load has no
desense. None. I am convinced that my 147 MHz RF is into the broad band
amps, and they are doing a wonderful job of spitting it back. I cann't
yell at them ,they pay rent!
When I first moved into my home in the late '90s I could not operate a 2
meter repeater from here: switched mode power supplies in cable TV set
top boxes in the neighbors' homes would mix my output to my input.?
Then streaming happened & everyone got rid of their STBs, & now I
can duplex on 2 meters but now the noise floor from LED street lighting
makes the repeater deaf at night.
Bob NO6B
|
Hi Mike,
?
This may not apply to this site because no mention of AT&T, but perhaps our experience with very high noise floor? to our 6M repeater that was located 600 ft away from a guyed cell tower might be of help.
?
It turned out that AT&T took over this multi user cell/ 2 way site from a cell company that went out of business (can't remember the name) This company used an unfiltered either 24VDC or 48VDC switching supply to power their backup battery pack- AT&T kept the same equipment in service after taking over. AT&T and called it a "rectifier". The switcher was so noisy that it radiated RF not only backward on the AC supply outside the building, but also on the outside of the Heliax runs to the panels on the top of the tower, which re-radiated RF over to our 6M tower top antenna 600 ft away! From our spectrum analyzer attached to the 6M antenna feedline, the noise floor averaged -50 dBM (as compared to an expected about -110dBM), which was actually worse when more current drawn during peak cell service demand. Another AT&T take over site site in Mass had the identical scenario to 6M receive on a water tower with all antennas at the same level on top.
?
To sniff out the noise source, a 6M HT (Azden) with the squelch open to enable the LED signal strength dots showed? the strength of the interference, because the interference did not quiet the receiver and just sounded like clean white squelch noise. First used a beam antenna, then the rubber duck antenna , then exposed 50 ohm resistor loop on the HT BNC antenna connector to get down to the individual Heliax runs, etc.
?
John
On 05/11/2025 6:29 PM EDT Mike Besemer - WM4B via groups.io <mwbesemer@...> wrote:
?
?
I had asked them to put a dummy load on the top and sweep the line when they replaced the antenna (or at very least recheck the VSWR), but that didn¡¯t happen.?
?
I¡¯ll have to drag the spectrum analyzer out there next time I go to look for grunge.
?
?
?
From: Christopher Boone <setxtelecom@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2025 6:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: mwbesemer@...
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Major Desense
?
The G7 is a good performer but hates lightning...lost several in the 80s to Zap the lightning god...installed properly it can out do a DB224...opinions vary but I'm basing mine on 40 years of dealing with them...
I'd definitely sweep the line yourself...if you could get someone to climb and put a dummy load on the antenna end and check defense would be best.
The 5G could be an issue...might need to get a spectrum analyzer and look at the noise on 2m
Chris WB5ITT
?
On Sun, May 11, 2025, 4:57?PM Mike Besemer - WM4B via <mwbesemer=[email protected]> wrote:
I was asked to go out the site in the attached picture yesterday to help troubleshoot.? Before I go on, let me describe the site.? Although there are numerous antennas on the tower, we are the only 2-way user there.? The rest of the antennas are not connected to anything and the feedlines have (unfortunately) been hacked off just below the catwalk.? There are licenses for Sprint, Verizon, and T-Mobile at this site, but we don¡¯t know what¡¯s active.? There is only one shelter besides our own.?
The panels around the perimeter of the catwalk have been there for quite some time.? The panels on top of the tower were installed a couple years ago, but the issue with this machine existed before they were installed.? This repeater used to have extremely good coverage, but now it¡¯s limited to maybe 10 miles with a strong mobile.?
Users are complaining about not being able to hit the repeater and it sounded to me like it was desense.? Sure enough, I put an isotee inline at the output of the duplexer and there was so much desense I didn¡¯t even try to measure it.? I cranked down the power on the TX and the desense was still there all the way down to nothing? I cranked the power back up and replaced the feedline with a dummy load and there was zero desense in the repeater/duplexer combo.? As an aside, the duplexer is a WP642 (tuned by me) and the repeater is an MSR-2000 (built by me).?
All I had with me to test the feedline was a Bird 43, and reflected power was nil.? I have been told that the feedline has been swept with a NanoVNA, but they were unable to provide me with pictures of the sweeps, so I¡¯m taking the word that ¡®it looked fine¡¯ with a huge grain of salt.? I¡¯ll have to go back another time and sweep it myself.
The feedline is LDF5-50A and the end of the heliax connects directly to the duplexer tee through a polyphaser.? (Yes¡ I tried testing it with and without the polyphaser inline.)? I can see where the feedline has been spliced where the ice-bridge meets the leg of the water tower just after the feedline goes vertical.? We didn¡¯t have a ladder with us to go up and have a look at it, but we do plan to do that.? We tried to discern what kind of splice was installed¡ whether it was a heliax splice or two N-Connectors, but with the tape ball, it was impossible to tell.? If it¡¯s N-connectors, we¡¯ll replace the lower leg of feedline with a RG-214 jumper and retest, but my gut tells me that the feedline is spliced with a heliax splice; having an N-Connector there would be too easy.
The antenna is a G7-144 and was replaced at the same time the antennas were put up along the top perimeter of the water tower.? Against my advice, the antenna was hooked directly to the feedline without a jumper.? I ¡®think¡¯ the upper connector was replaced when the antenna was installed, but I need to check back on that.? I don¡¯t know much about the G7-144, but from what I¡¯ve seen here in the archives it appears to be ok for repeater service with the exception of not being particularly good in the weather.? If I¡¯m mistaken, I¡¯m sure I¡¯ll here about it here.? I offered to give them a DB-224, but that offer fell on deaf ears.?
Needless to say, we¡¯re suspect of the feedline.? Nobody knows how long it¡¯s been up there, but I do know it¡¯s been up there for a long time.? I did see one place at the end of the ice-bridge where someone had stepped on a piece of 5/8¡± heliax and crimped it good; it would not surprise me if the same thing had happened to the LDF5 cable at some point.? Clearly, there have been climbers all over that tower more than once.
The only thing that worries me are the 5G panels at the top of the water tower.? I¡¯m concerned that broadband noise from them is causing the desense, but frankly I don¡¯t know how to test for that.? Everything I learned about repeaters I learned here and I¡¯m a lot stronger in the shop then I am on-site.? Clearly the club doesn¡¯t want to spend a bunch of money on feedline and climbers only to find out that it didn¡¯t cure the problem.?
Standing by for advice; flameproof underwear has been donned.
Mike
WM4B
?
?
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of K8TB
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2025 8:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Major Desense? Mike, I have a site where the 224 on the VHF repeater is now about 3 feet from a T mobile antenna. Today, the cell electronics, including RF is up on the tower. The boxes are fed with 48 vdc and fiber. If I run 40 watts of RF on the MTR-2000 I have over 40 dB of desensing. I am running 1 watt right now which brings me down to about 10 dB of desensing. In a month of two I will have a tower climber look around for me. I am planning on installing a huster G6 as a transmit anteena, on the other side to the water tower ( the antenna will be clear of the water tower "dome". There will be no cell antennas close to it.
I have a telewave 6 cavity duplexer, that into a dummy load has no desense. None. I am convinced that my 147 MHz RF is into the broad band amps, and they are doing a wonderful job of spitting it back. I cann't yell at them ,they pay rent! I'll let you know what I find out in a few months. Tom K8TB ? ? The only thing that worries me are the 5G panels at the top of the water tower.? I¡¯m concerned that broadband noise from them is causing the desense, but frankly I don¡¯t know how to test for that.? Everything I learned about repeaters I learned here and I¡¯m a lot stronger in the shop then I am on-site.? Clearly the club doesn¡¯t want to spend a bunch of money on feedline and climbers only to find out that it didn¡¯t cure the problem.? Standing by for advice; flameproof underwear has been donned. Mike WM4B ? ?
?
|
Mike, I have a
site where the 224 on the VHF repeater is now about 3 feet from a
T mobile antenna. Today, the cell electronics, including RF is up
on the tower. The boxes are fed with 48 vdc and fiber. If I run 40
watts of RF on the MTR-2000 I have over 40 dB of desensing. I am
running 1 watt right now which brings me down to about 10 dB of
desensing. In a month of two I will have a tower climber look
around for me. I am planning on installing a huster G6 as a
transmit anteena, on the other side to the water tower ( the
antenna will be clear of the water tower "dome". There will be no
cell antennas close to it.
I have a telewave 6 cavity duplexer, that into a dummy load has
no desense. None. I am convinced that my 147 MHz RF is into the
broad band amps, and they are doing a wonderful job of spitting it
back. I cann't yell at them ,they pay rent!
I'll let you know what I find out in a few months.
Tom K8TB
The only thing
that worries me are the 5G panels at the
top of the water tower.? I¡¯m concerned that broadband noise
from them is causing the desense,
but frankly I don¡¯t know how to test for that.? Everything I
learned about repeaters I learned here and I¡¯m a lot
stronger in the shop then I am on-site.? Clearly
the club doesn¡¯t want to spend a bunch of money on feedline
and climbers only to find out that it didn¡¯t
cure the problem.?
Standing by
for advice; flameproof underwear has been donned.
Mike
WM4B
?
|
At 5/11/2025 03:29 PM, you wrote:
I had asked them to put a dummy
load on the top and sweep the line when they replaced the antenna (or at
very least recheck the VSWR), but that didn?€?t happen.??
?
I?€?ll have to drag the spectrum analyzer out there next time I go to
look for grunge.
Another good test if you can get that 50 ohm load at the end of the
feedline is to check for desense with it in place.
Bob NO6B
|
Re: Adjusting power level on a Kenwood TKR 850
On 2025-05-11 6:36 p.m., Ken Arck AH6LE via groups.io wrote: Chad
It is not done with a pot - it is done while in Test Mode in the software <-- Hi Ken; unless someone has intentionally limited the power output by turning down VR1 on the PA board.? I know you know that... but just in case the other fella' is finding the power output to max' out at some point (using the s/w sliders). Cheers, Ramesh, VA3UV, WA3UV
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Re: Adjusting power level on a Kenwood TKR 850
Chad It is not done with a pot - it is done while in Test Mode in the software Ken At 03:25 PM 5/11/2025, you wrote: Can anyone tell me how to adjust the power output for high and or low power on a Kenwood TKR 850 repeater? I know there's a pot inside the repeater but can someone advise me on what it's labeled?
Chad Nelson WI9HF/WRPL979
Janesville Wisconsin
608-754-8671
Send from my spectrum iPhone 16.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ President and CTO - Arcom Controllers Makers of repeater controllers and accessories Phone: (503) 678 6182 Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave. We offer complete turn-key repeater packages! "We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!" []
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Re: Adjusting power level on a Kenwood TKR 850
This question could was easily?answered by Google!
The output power of a Kenwood TKR-850 repeater is adjusted?through software programming, not a physical knob or switch on the unit itself.?You'll need to use a programming cable and software, like KPG-91D and a computer, to access the power settings and adjust them as needed.?The unit has both high and low power settings that can be configured. ?We've got several of these Kenwood repeaters and this is how we made the adjustments during testing.
Good Luck, dave W4AVA... 65yrs using commercial antennas for repeaters rather than hammy antennas! Plenty of money to do it wrong twice and never enough?to do it right once.? It's ham radio.
On Sun, May 11, 2025 at 6:26?PM Chad Nelson via <chad.nelson71= [email protected]> wrote: Can anyone tell me how to adjust the power output for high and or low power on a Kenwood TKR 850 repeater? I know there's a pot inside the repeater but can someone advise me on what it's labeled?
Chad Nelson WI9HF/WRPL979
Janesville Wisconsin
608-754-8671
Send from my spectrum iPhone 16.
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Chris Boone WB5ITT
Mike Besemer - WM4B
Ken Arck AH6LE
Dave Jordan