Re: DB4060 Series Duplexer Cans
At 4/18/2025 11:28 AM, you wrote:
> Considering its
> physical size - using 8 inch cavities, most any other manufacturer
can
> exceed the stated and practical specifications of the DB-4060 -
like
> 90dB of rejection or more with a similar insertion loss.
Here's what a proper-loops, proper-harness, properly-tuned DB4060 should
look like - two examples with damn near identical performance that exceed
factory specs.? Note the "fake" RG-214 factory harness
that was found on one of them.
That's the first time I've seen tinned braid used on cable marked
"RG-214".? Usually the "fake" RG-214 uses
copper, which is easy to see; in this case the untrained eye might
mistake tinned braid for silver.
Bob NO6B
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Re: DB4060 Series Duplexer Cans
Considering its
physical size - using 8 inch cavities, most any other manufacturer can
exceed the stated and practical specifications of the DB-4060 - like
90dB of rejection or more with a similar insertion loss. Here's what a proper-loops, proper-harness, properly-tuned DB4060 should look like - two examples with damn near identical performance that exceed factory specs. Note the "fake" RG-214 factory harness that was found on one of them. As Kevin said, that series of duplexer is prone to surface contact issues between the loop assembly "box" and the top of the filter. Older ones are also susceptible to issues with center plunger to fingerstock contact and flaking of the silver plating. The former is easy to address, the latter not so much. If you have a DB4060/4062 that has been in a nice environment they can survive a long time without developing issues (increased insertion loss, reduced notch depth, noise under transmit power), but those that haven't lived in a utopic environment can be problematic as they age. --- Jeff WN3A
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1. turn on programming
2. If you want to make the code say D42 enter 4151 42 without the D.
3. Then enter the code D42.? It will toggle the mode.
?
73, ron, n9ee
?
?
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Re: DB4060 Series Dfor a 4-cuplexer Cans
It's just a matter of retuning.
There is no difference between the 2 sides except how you have it tuned. Wrong. The loops are different between high-pass and low-pass. And, the loops are different depending on bandsplit. If you don't have the right loops, or are using the loops for the wrong response (high-pass versus low-pass) you probably won't even make rated space for notch depth. If they are correct for the bandsplit and pass response you'll get 85 dB for a 4-cavity DB4060. --- Jeff WN3A
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Re: THREAT TO 222-225MHz Spectrum Getting Worse with additional licenses issued outside of California
You need to make your use of 220 MHz? appealing to the masses instead of just going the typical repeater route.
?
Up here in central Oregon we are using 220 for cross band remote bases coming out on? 29 and 52 MHz FM with daily users taking advantage of these bands especially on 29 FM where we have been enjoying worldwide Dx contacts for the past 14 years.
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There is similar system on the air in Arizona and others on the air down in California that come out on 29 and 52MHz FM.
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In my case I did things the easiest way for others to follow with minimal cost.
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?I scrapped the repeater method and went with a 220 simplex remote base to 29/52 MHz? Fm system and it works very well for everyone.
?
The cost was just the radios and the antennas so there is no hard to find expensive 220 duplexer required.
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I have experimented with 3+ year old 220Mhz? Alinco and? Icom mobiles with excellent results.
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I also tried 220 Converted High band Motorola Maxtracs, high band? converted Ge orions,? high band converted Ge Rangrs and high band Vertex FTL2011 radios to 220 MHz and all of them in the remote base service worked very well.
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Re: Wacom WP-678 Cable lengths
Sorry about the name/person mix up! That is close enough for me!? What about the cable lengths from the cavity to the Tee for the antenna?? Are those the same too? ? TNX Jim ? Sent from
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Don Clark via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2025 5:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Wacom WP-678 Cable lengths? This is the wrong Don, but I just measured a couple of mine.
This is tip to tip of the male pin. Very close to the end of connector also.? 3.74"
Or 3.737" to 3.745", and I doubt you can cut a coax that close, along with my measuring errors.
Don
KB5KWV
On 4/17/2025 3:20 PM, James Kossow via groups.io wrote: Dan thank you for your reply, can you get me the exact measurements of the cavity-to-cavity cable length and the cavity to tee (antenna tee) length? ? Thank you, ?Jim? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Tuesday, April 15, 2025 at 08:43:21 AM PDT, James Kossow <jim.kossow@...> wrote: ? ? ? ? ? It is the one port version.? ? TNX jim.? ? ? On Apr 15, 2025, at 6:48?AM, Jeff DePolo WN3A via groups.io <jd0@...> wrote: ? ?
? ????* I have a Wacom WP-678 that is missing the interconnect cables.? ????*??? Is it a WP-678-R2 (two ports per cavity) or an original WP-678 (one port per cavity with a tee on top)? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? --- Jeff WN3A ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
?
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Re: DB4060 Series Duplexer Cans
If you don't care about performance or obtaining the factory specifications - it's just a matter of retuning.? But, considering performance, the OP will need to pay attention to the loop geometry, install the correct loop assembly pairs (modified or new) in the "side" of the duplexer he wants the notch direction to fall, and possibly replace the harness.? If he has the "wrong" band-split coupling loops, he's going to struggle getting 75dB of rejection in the ham band with 600kHz of frequency spacing.? If he has the right coupling loops - he'll get 80+ dB (or so) of rejection.? These loops are not rotational - so you can't dial-in the insertion loss - unless you start bending stuff.
IMHO - this isn't a great duplexer to begin with.? Considering its physical size - using 8 inch cavities, most any other manufacturer can exceed the stated and practical specifications of the DB-4060 - like 90dB of rejection or more with a similar insertion loss. For comparison, I'll cite the Sinclair Q202G or WACOM WP-641, as I personally own several of each of those.? Add to that the flaking off of the silver plating and other mechanical instabilities that are well documented on the RB site.
Kevin W3KKC
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On 4/18/2025 12:34 PM, mistuff wrote: It's just a matter of retuning. You should be able to do it WITHOUT replacing the loops. First tune the individual cans (seperated) to the desired pass frequencies, then carefully tune the cap to move the notch from one side to the other. Then connect the cans back in the set and touchup the cans pass slightly if needed, then same for the notch. I suggest you start the process by doing this to each can standing alone (seperately) , then the full set.
Depending on frequencies, you could just move the cans pass frequencies and the notches closer as desired. Then just swap the TX and RX connections. There is no difference between the 2 sides except how you have it tuned.
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Re: THREAT TO 222-225MHz Spectrum Getting Worse with additional licenses issued outside of California
Had I put up a 220 repeater 30 years ago, I suspect I'd be the only one on it today. I went to 440 back then, and even with all the 440 radios available at that time, it still took probably 10 years to start to build any real user base.
I do agree with you regarding the digital stuff. 220 would be a good place for most of that.
Chuck
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On 4/18/2025 12:01 PM, Chris Baldwin via groups.io wrote: Chuck,
How do you figure? That was damn near 30 years ago, if not.
It's the lack of participation that's causing these sorts of problems. I think you can read between the lines there.
Chris/AJM
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Re: DB4060 Series Duplexer Cans
It's just a matter of retuning. You should be able to do it WITHOUT replacing the loops. First tune the individual cans (seperated) to the desired pass frequencies, then carefully tune the cap to move the notch from one side to the other. Then connect the cans back in the set and touchup the cans pass slightly if needed, then same for the notch. I suggest you start the process by doing this to each can standing alone (seperately) , then the full set.
?
Depending on frequencies, you could just move the cans pass frequencies and the notches closer as desired. Then just swap the TX and RX connections. There is no difference between the 2 sides except how you have it tuned.
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Re: THREAT TO 222-225MHz Spectrum Getting Worse with additional licenses issued outside of California
Chuck,
?
How do you figure? That was damn near 30 years ago, if not.
?
It's the lack of participation that's causing these sorts of problems. I think you can read between the lines there.
?
Chris/AJM
?
On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 05:49 AM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:
Back when the UPS 220 MHz fiasco came along, I told myself NOT to invest in anything on that band. I realize that this is a "cop out," but I could foresee lots of head-banging in the future. I think I made the right choice, sadly.
?
--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)
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Re: THREAT TO 222-225MHz Spectrum Getting Worse with additional licenses issued outside of California
All the more reason for folks to focus on making use of the 220 band.
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Develop stuff for DMR for 220, and you'll have it chock full of repeaters spitting out crap from the other side of the world for no purpose.
?
But it'll busy up the band!
?
Thanks for fighting the good fight, John. As someone with two 220 machines, I appreciate your efforts.
?
Chris/AJM
--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)
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I don¡¯t have a dog in this hunt, but I would be careful what I posted in a public forum. Even if true, it is obvious you posted this in a malicious manner, opening yourself up to a libel charge, or a slander charge if you have posted anything inaccurate.?
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On Apr 18, 2025, at 8:08?AM, k0axx@... wrote:
? Too bad this wasn¡¯t ¡°your site¡±, Chris. It¡¯s ok though. Every amateur and GMRS operator in SE Texas is aware of your illegal activities and we all have a copy of your mugshot and charges.?
I hope you enjoyed the 3 day vacation in the slammer. Maybe now the FCC will rid us of you and your antics. Remember that one time you list your job for illegal operation of a telecommunication device? Which time??
I see you are out on bail and we are all so blessed that the ¡°4 suspects¡± (Deputies) also installed a camera (WHAT A GREAT IDEA!) Never thought they would catch you at 0400, returning to ¡°Your site¡±. There are so many other instances like this; we could write a book. I hope this group and any other you are enlisted to finally understands who WB5ITT really is.?
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Re: DB4060 Series Duplexer Cans
On 4/17/2025 8:32 PM, Jeff Acree via groups.io wrote: I asked this question before, but the string got a little bit sidetracked.? If I want to convert a DB4060 Series can that is currently set up for Pass Low / Block High to Pass High / Block Low, what is involved?? Is it just a matter of changing the loop or is there more to it than that?
Thanks!
Jeff? KC8VFN Many duplexers don't use a different loop assembly for each "side" of the duplexer.? The DB406X series is NOT one of those, but you can still tune the notch to either side.? Simple series L/C BpBr loops produce a notch on both sides of the pass.? Generally - the amount of capacitance that's dialed into the loop "selects" which notch is used.? So - you'll be able to tune the coupling loop assemblies you have to put the notch at the correct frequency spacing, but the amount of notch depth obtained may not be optimal. I believe Jeff WN3A offered to tell you what to do to properly convert what you have to work optimally on the ham band.? This may require you to make a new copper loop and solder it to your pick-up assembly.? It may also require building a new harness. Also - performance of this duplexer is somewhat dependent on the physical / mechanical condition of the cavities.? This is especially true of the mating surface between the coupling loop assembly "box" and the top of the cavity.? In some instances - this includes the surface of the coaxial connector and the top of the box.? If these surfaces are corroded or blemished, reduced performance is experienced.? Here's an article that details one problem of this nature: Also - look at the other DB-406X information available on the "Antenna Systems Index" Use your "find" function "Windows CTRL-F" to find it.? It's in the Decibel Products section. Kevin
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Re: DB4060 Series Duplexer Cans
I asked this question before, but the string got a little bit sidetracked. If I want to convert a DB4060 Series can
that is currently set up for Pass Low / Block High to Pass High / Block Low, what is involved? Is it just a matter
of changing the loop or is there more to it than that? The short answer is yes, it is a function of the loop geometry. The longer answer is that there is no single "high pass" or "low pass" loop for all bandsplits; what may be a high-pass loop in one bandsplit could be a low-pass in another. Remote the screws that attach the loop assembly "box" to the cavity. Look at the underside of the box. You should see some numbers hand-written; look for the suffix (a dash followed by two zeros and a number). Tell me what that is, and then I'll tell you what you need to do. Also, what frequency do you want it to end up on? --- Jeff WN3A
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Re: THREAT TO 222-225MHz Spectrum Getting Worse with additional licenses issued outside of California
Back when the UPS 220 MHz fiasco came
along, I told myself NOT to invest in anything on that band. I
realize that this is a "cop out," but I could foresee lots of
head-banging in the future. I think I made the right choice,
sadly.
Chuck
WB2EDV
On 4/18/2025 12:59 AM, John N. Hudson
III via groups.io wrote:
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I know I've written about this before but since then the
threat has increased to the 222-225MHz Spectrum.
?
The FCC has issued additional licenses to the Company "Chaos"
with high powered Radar Testing in the spectrum. The first
experiences we had with this was in Hermosa Beach area of Los
Angeles County. Now they have new test beds ? ---snip----
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Re: Quality Programming Cable?
On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 08:58 AM, TIM HARDY wrote:
Hello,
Before I order a cable to program a Icom IC-121S I'd be interested in folks opinion of the quality of?
BLUEMAX49ers.com prog. cables.? I'd rather not mess with "Cheap" import cables. Most do not work!
If I order from BLUEMAX49ers should I get the "FTDI" or "PROLIFIC" prog. cable? Also BLUEMAX has drivers listed if I require them.
I don't mind spending approx. $35.00 for a quality cable. I just want it to work!
Thanks for your input.
Tim
AE7TH
?
I help out one or two days a week at a local 2-way shop.? Between the shop, myself and a couple of friends
we've purchased around 40 of the BlueMax cables, Id say that 80% have been FTDI, the rest have been
9-pin "D" connector serial cables.
NO Prolific. ? The FTDI USB cables DO NOT need any funny drivers, they use the stock Windows drivers
and just plain work!?
?
Why the 9-pin cables? ?Panasonic Toughbooks have a 9-pin serial port and using that eliminates ALL of
the USB issues.?
I have two Toughbooks that are dedicated to radio programming. One runs 32-bit Win7 and the other 64-bit Win10.?
If I have to go to USB then I use only real FTDI cables or adapters.?? Yes, they cost a little more but
eliminating the need for funny drivers is worth it.
Another reason that I use BlueMax exclusively is that Mark is responsive.? He includes a business card with
every cable and on it are his email address, street address and phone number.? He responds to my emails
and he returns my phone calls.
Only one of his cables has ever had a problem and that was my own fault, in mid-2022 I accidentally broke the
spring clip that attaches the cable to the side of an XTS5000 handheld.? It was my own fault, the XTS cable fell
on the floor, I didn't see it, and I stepped on it.? The cable still worked just fine, I just had to use a fat rubber
band (and later an elastic / velcro strap) to hold it in place on the programming connector on the side of the
radio.?? I bought a replacement (from Mark) for the field programming computer kit and the velcro-strap
one got demoted to spare status and then later given away.? I last talked to the current owner in December
of 2024 and he is still using it.
Mike WA6ILQ
?
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THREAT TO 222-225MHz Spectrum Getting Worse with additional licenses issued outside of California
I know I've written about this before but since then the threat has increased to the 222-225MHz Spectrum.
?
The FCC has issued additional licenses to the Company "Chaos" with high powered Radar Testing in the spectrum. The first experiences we had with this was in Hermosa Beach area of Los Angeles County. Now they have new test beds in the following areas:
?
FCC licenses issued to Chaos Industries. Please see the attached?documents.?
?
WY9XPE - (222-225 MHz) Camp Atterbury, Indiana
WY9XYL - (222-225 MHz) MCAS Yuma, Arizona
WY9XYM - (222-225) MHz) Irwin National?training Center, California?
WY9XWP - (228-233) MHz Desert Center, Riverside, California
?
Apparently, these are in addition to their existing licenses,? These licenses are footnoted that they must cease immediately if they cause interference to Amateur Radio operations.
?
The FCC continues to authorize non amateur radio operations in amateur radio spectrum. If operations are of a temporary, proof-of-concept nature only and in low population areas, perhaps we could just wait. The problem it brings is precedence, which is how many mechanisms of law work. The precedent set giving way to a case being made that they have greater need for the spectrum than we, and an opportunity for the FCC to auction or otherwise reallocate the band. The problem we have, how do we 'defend' against this in these sparse population areas where 220 amateur activity is very low? We can mobilize folks as we have in our local area, but there's a whole interior of the nation where overall use is light. Especially for an off-beaten-path band like 220. This is a strategic threat requiring a strategic response.
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Remember, these transmitters may not be near you, however if a repeater input can see the transmitter its ability to receive a weak signal is degraded. I urge ALL repeater owners to look at these locations, if in anyway you know repeater owners who may be impacted make them aware of this threat. Today its the 220 MHz spectrum, tomorrow its 1.2GHz, 420-450MHz spectrum or even 144-148MHz, don't think companies like Choas are not thinking of that? Remember, its not a Right, its a Privilege that we can use the spectrum we do and we will have to fight to keep it.
?
Thank you,
?
John N. Hudson III, WA6HYQ
President of the 220 Spectrum Management Association
President@...
iPhone:6192648934
?
?
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Re: DB4060 Series Duplexer Cans
Hi
guys,
Does anybody remember
these?
I sent it off to Tasmania (2014) before I had had any real
experience of
duplexers.
I had just acquired a? cheap Atten 0-1500 MHz spectrum
analyser & tracking
generator.
It was originally?on around 470MHz, so I tuned it down to
435MHz for amateur
service.
This is the
thing.
==============? I noticed a wide stop band around 40MHz
wide with a pass and a
notch
in the middle, pass less than 2db and a notch around 80db
deep.
I adjusted the plunger for the pass & notch and the,
under a cap, capacitor to move the stop
band
down, 10MHz at a time until I was in
the? 435MHz region. Hayden in Tasmania adjusted it to the
pass to notch requirements he needed.
I didn't take any pictures, a pity.
Having now, more test equipment, and seeing more duplexers, is what I saw correct?
If so, has anyone pictures of the innards?
?
0x73
Alan VK2ZIW
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 17:32:55 -0700, Jeff Acree via
groups.io
wrote
> I asked this question before, but the string got a little bit
sidetracked.? If I want to convert a DB4060 Series can that is currently set up
for Pass Low / Block High to Pass High / Block Low, what is involved?? Is it
just a matter of changing the loop or is there more to it than that?
>
>
Thanks!
>
Jeff? KC8VFN
>
>
---------------------------------------------------
Alan VK2ZIW
Before the Big Bang, God, Sela.
OpenWebMail 2.53, nothing in the cloud.
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Re: Quality Programming Cable?
Blue Max cables work well and yes the FTDI are the best
Les Keegan? N4LPK?
On Thursday, April 17, 2025 at 11:58:29 AM EDT, TIM HARDY via groups.io <w7trh@...> wrote:
Hello,
Before I order a cable to program a Icom IC-121S I'd be interested in folks opinion of the quality of?
BLUEMAX49ers.com prog. cables.? I'd rather not mess with "Cheap" import cables. Most do not work!
If I order from BLUEMAX49ers should I get the "FTDI" or "PROLIFIC" prog. cable? Also BLUEMAX has drivers listed if I require them.
I don't mind spending approx. $35.00 for a quality cable. I just want it to work!
Thanks for your input.
Tim
AE7TH
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Re: MFJ-1112 DC power strip
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Kevin Custer
Chris Baldwin
John N. Hudson III
Frank Gregg