On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 12:58 PM, Karl Shoemaker wrote:

Yea, thanks Doug; it did try them but the phone call would not go through. I believe the international code is " 01 " but no good.? It used to work when I was with Kaelus talking to co workers in Brisbane.?

Karl,
I think you dial it just like it is on the website. 31 is their country code.

Gerald wd0fyf

OK, I get where you're going. So I can see how if someone wanted to do
that, it's not a bad path. I guess I just feel much better using
un-modded cards as much as possible, so I can just pop one in and set
levels if I need to.

I see what you're saying as well. I guess if I know I'm going to be the only one to ever use X device again, I have no problem modifying it to suit my needs. I mean, hell, we're talking about voters that are multiple decades old and have virtually no commercial value, it's not like they're going to be worth anything anyway after we're done with them in ham service.

The other thing that I absolutely abhor is to see something like perf boards, relays, dead-bug components, etc. gimmicked up to cure logic level incompatibilities, or tailor audio levels, or add RC delays, or whatever, especially when they're dangling off the back of equipment like a voter or repeater chassis backplane. I'm sure you know the kind of hackery I'm talking about which, fortunately, in the more-modern digital age has become less and less of a problem in commercial realms than it once was, but still seems to live on in the hammy world.

--- Jeff WN3A




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Yea, thanks Doug; it did try them but the phone call would not go through. I believe the international code is " 01 " but no good.? It used to work when I was with Kaelus talking to co workers in Brisbane.?
I also tried the other one in UK, but based on your post, perhaps they went under and got pick up by klove now? I'm interested in a vendor that will compensate channel elements.?
Most of gear on the System is old school.? Purchasing newer, expensive, frequency agile equipment is not an option for me at this time.???? I tried Bomar but they said no.

I have my own (crude) procedure for compensation with temp coef caps but I'd rather find a vender (like ICM) that has a lab/testing area to do all of that.?
Besides, getting the CE for a MX radio back together is a nightmare, mainly because I don't have a spot welder (the case is steel, I think).?
The others, such as Micor has a cover that can be removed without too much damage on the case. Same goes for the Mitrek.

------------


DougH
9:58am?? #195742 ?

Karl,

Try KLOVE (https://www.klove.nl). ex Quarzlab.

Doug - GM7SVK

Karl,

Correct. Those are the GE comparators. These are the newer units that are black in color and have updated cards with LEDs on them. The older units are gray in color and have cards with incandescent lamps on them.

I personally wouldn't pay more than about $150-200 for one of them.

Chris

--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)

So, this is what the guys are talking about for GE?? This is on ebay. I guess I did not remember the two "version" the older, gray one (which I'm somewhat been around) and the newer(?) dark one?
Maybe the latter is after the "old" GE got bought out by M/A comm, or Harris or whatever this month ?? Hold on, I just noticed it says for a Mastr 3???? Woops..............


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Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
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Maybe in a tube repeater, LOL. Seriously, there's simple ways of not to use a relay or any mechanicle devices.? When I ran the RVS-8 I bypass the relay in that, too. But I understand where you are coming from.
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Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.

On 11/18/2022 12:51 PM, Jeff DePolo WN3A wrote:

Could there be a difference in terminology here? To me, making mods to
something like this means actually changing parts, or board traces, or
something like that. Eliminating the notch filter would be a mod. Adding
a relay driver to either the link rx's or the back of the voter, or a
separate box, whatever, to me isn't a mod, it's part of the interfacing.

The mods to allow the receiver cards to accept a more common level of COR voltage are straightforward, take less time, and probably cost less than building up outboard logic level converters. Generally speaking, it’s not a good idea to use a relay to switch very low currents unless a more expensive relay rated for such use was selected.
The JPS voters are much more flexible in most regards, but even on the used market still get decent money. I have two of the original ones and two of the later ones. The adjustable delay is nice when mixing and matching backhauls (not something I would normally design to do intentionally, but sometimes you're dealt a bad hand due to others before you not knowing what they're doing), the flexibility in interfacing is nice, etc.. In contrast, the GE's and SpectraTAC's are cheap and abundant, so it comes down to how much your time is worth if you're choosing between the options for typical ham use with RF links.
--- Jeff WN3A

OK, I get where you're going. So I can see how if someone wanted to do that, it's not a bad path. I guess I just feel much better using un-modded cards as much as possible, so I can just pop one in and set levels if I need to.
The relay drivers I had were a pile of boards and parts needed that were left over from a company I used to work for that doesn't do LMR anymore, so they would've gone in the trash. Just a simple less than 1" square board, 2 transistors, a few misc parts, and a little relay. The one I have now has been running a couple years quite nicely. I can't say I ever heard of an issue switching low currents with a relay, only high currents. Huh...

开云体育

Karl,

Try KLOVE (). ex Quarzlab.

Doug - GM7SVK

开云体育

Could there be a difference in terminology here? To me, making mods to
something like this means actually changing parts, or board traces, or
something like that. Eliminating the notch filter would be a mod. Adding
a relay driver to either the link rx's or the back of the voter, or a
separate box, whatever, to me isn't a mod, it's part of the interfacing.

The mods to allow the receiver cards to accept a more common level of COR voltage are straightforward, take less time, and probably cost less than building up outboard logic level converters. Generally speaking, it’s not a good idea to use a relay to switch very low currents unless a more expensive relay rated for such use was selected.

The JPS voters are much more flexible in most regards, but even on the used market still get decent money. I have two of the original ones and two of the later ones. The adjustable delay is nice when mixing and matching backhauls (not something I would normally design to do intentionally, but sometimes you're dealt a bad hand due to others before you not knowing what they're doing), the flexibility in interfacing is nice, etc.. In contrast, the GE's and SpectraTAC's are cheap and abundant, so it comes down to how much your time is worth if you're choosing between the options for typical ham use with RF links.

--- Jeff WN3A



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I really like them. They just work. Very easy to interface to, and the voting seems much better than most of the others. I know of a large system that still has a Moto Spectra-Tac on it, and he had lots of problems for many, many years with mis-voting. Part of the problem was setting levels, since it used voter tone to set them automagically. I think they wound up finding a way around that and putting actual level pots on it, besides the E&M mods.
Normal GE voter cards have level adjustments instead of the auto-leveling circuit Moto uses. Should make for far less problems with mis-voting on ham systems with RF links instead of phone lines/microwave/whatever.

I have a few sites doing this. As long as the frequencies are CLOSE enough. They have to be close enough that the passes and the notches are wide enough to cover both pairs.
Use a single 4 cavity or 6 cavity BpBr duplexer, receiver muticoupler, and a hybrid combiner. You lose half the TX power, but with modern transmitters that is not a big deal.

442.225 and 442.175 TX
447.225 and 447.172 RX

Using a Sinclair Q3330E, Sinclair UHF 2 channel multicoupler, and Sinclair hybrid combiner (two dual stage islolators, 2 harmonic filters, hybrid strip).

Dave Cameron
VE7LTD

Now that's been several years since they closed their doors anyone heard if the "files" were kept?? My dream (yea, I know) is some of the ex employees got together to start up a new company that compensates channel elements.??? While I'm pipe dreaming, it would be a plus if it was in the USA.
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Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.

Lots of SMDs on the (OEM) board so you may need a wave machine or lots of pacience, LOL.? But ye,s it would be nice to start it up again. Same goes for the Doug Hall voter.
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Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.

You are correct, Jim.??? I still should get my hands on a GE shelf (with the cards, ot course) and dig into it. I'm a documenation guy so I might even do a paper on it.
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Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.

On 11/17/2022 1:13 PM, Jeff DePolo WN3A wrote:

Everybody keeps talking about mods to the GE voter. E&M signalling is
standard on them, even the old grey ones. So voter tone isn't needed if
you have a relay closure or other good switching.

Mods are still required to use a GE voter without status tone if you want to do it right. For starters, you'll want to get rid of the 1950 notch filters on the receiver cards and the audio module to clean up the audio response. Disabling the 1950 detector is also a good idea to prevent voice falsing, as well as disabling the channel failure detection. And you'll want to configure for no AGC. The stock E&M input (active LOW) input requires 12 to 17 volts on the newer black/SMD cards (wider range on the old cards), so not directly compatible with TTL or the logic from many radios/receivers. So, yeah, at the basic level the functionality is there to use E&M instead of status tone, but some additional work, level translation, and other details still need to be addressed - it's not "COR-ready" per se.
--- Jeff WN3A

Ok, killing the 1950 notch is a good idea, but to me that's a separate issue. I've never run across voice falsing on them though, plus I would not worry about disabling channel fail. It doens't affect E&M directly, unless someone decides to dump a continuous tone, probably also squelch noise. That will fail any channel involved.
As to voltage levels, well, it all depends on what you're using to key it. I was successful with some old HT90's as link rx's, but the GE MPA's I'm using right now are too low, and I think inverse, so I found some little relay drivers laying around that did the deed. But it works perfectly, no changes to the voter or the cards at all.

Could there be a difference in terminology here? To me, making mods to something like this means actually changing parts, or board traces, or something like that. Eliminating the notch filter would be a mod. Adding a relay driver to either the link rx's or the back of the voter, or a separate box, whatever, to me isn't a mod, it's part of the interfacing.

1600Hz for a SpectraTAC? That's definitely an SP thing. They have the option to jumper for 1950 or 2175Hz, but 1600 sounds like some SP thing. Maybe for older RCA voters?

I'm pretty sure I've still got a rack-mount DHE 4RV/2 comparator that I don't care to own anymore. I've no clue if it works or not. I've never even powered it up. Looks pretty nice though, 19" rackmount card cage with the modules plugged into that, all factory. I should see if I've still got it and list it for sale here.

Chris

--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)

With as inexpensive as it is to get PC boards made, perhaps you could ask him for the appropriate PCB files and have your own made.

Chris


--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)

Joe it might be easy to disable those tones.? For the SpecTac receivers I have on the 20 repeater they work very well with the SNV-12.?
Someone posted to purchase the older used ones.? Anyone have a name or source? The factory did not say anything to me about that.
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.