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Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

Chuck,

The answer is¡­well¡­sort of. ?Tradition, longevity and consistency are hallmarks of the telephone company. Roll the calendar back to the 80¡¯s and 90¡¯s and there was EVERYTHING possible in the network. Each had their limitations based on their technology and those limits evaporated as technology went forward. But consistency in dialing HAD to be maintained. ?A phone from a step switch had to work like one off of a new digital switch. So 1+ was the rule and 0+/- for operator assist.


But in direct response, telling the CO switch to set up for a toll call only applied in a mechanical office. The rest of it, shall we say, is all software now and makes absolutely no difference in call processing. ? I am dealing with some databases in northern California where the PUC has mandated no-prefix dialing. ?Not sure why but I imagine it¡¯s to make a wireline phone act like a cellphone. ?Just my guess¡­
Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

Also means to do magic with phone numbers and troubleshooting why a call will not go from a to b. I have seen issues where a switch load had mysterious issues in call routing. To the same number some calls you would have to add a 1 and others not. Took an executive escalation to get them to look at it. Took over 24 hours to resolve.

You guys in translations are hidden well.

Stan

On Nov 19, 2022, at 8:23 AM, Joe <k1ike_mail@...> wrote:

?Hello Kevin,

"Sr Translations Engineer" That's a title that I haven't heard in years. I did translations back in the 1980's for the local Telco here in Connecticut. Sometimes interesting, sometimes boring.
(For those curious, translations=software programming in telephone company lingo)

Joe
Re: Looking for a PROVEN power supply regulator board design

 

More details needed, voltage, duty cycle, usage, environment, ect. But a property maintained lead acid battery ('s) floated with a proper power supply is hard to beat.

Ross

On Nov 18, 2022 5:27 PM, Alexandre Souza <alexandre.tabajara@...> wrote:
Dear group,

Any recommendationpower supply regulator board circuit which is tested and proven? I would like to build a pair of 30-40A power supplies for a friend and could use some help

Thanks
Alexandre, PU2SEX

Enviado do meu Tele-Movel
Re: Multiple repeaters sharing a common power supply - pros and cons

 

I will look for it, but no garuntees since I retired 2 years ago and made several moves since then.
Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

Hello Kevin,

"Sr Translations Engineer" That's a title that I haven't heard in years. I did translations back in the 1980's for the local Telco here in Connecticut. Sometimes interesting, sometimes boring.
(For those curious, translations=software programming in telephone company lingo)

Joe
Re: International crystal manufacturing

Roger Stubbe
 

David, you are right.? I posted earlier that the prefix was 00.? That is more common when outside the US.? 011 is correct.? So, for Klove it would be 01131
Re: International crystal manufacturing

Roger Stubbe
 

To access international telephone numbers, the prefix is 00.? For Klove, then, it would be 0031 etc...? At least I think that is right.
Roger
Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Kevin,

You went way above my pay grade regarding (B). I never worked in the industry. However, I 'think' my response was the Reader's Digest version of (B), wasn't it? "seems like it related to telling the CO to prepare for toll circuit call???"

Yes? No?

Chuck




On 11/19/2022 5:42 AM, Kevin Magloughlin wrote:

Actually, it is not. ?The digit 1 as a first digit dialed has/had a double meaning.?

A: 1 means world zone 1. (WZ1) This zone is made up of North American, Canada and the Caribbean islands. ?So it is not just the United States. This zone has one aspect in common and that is they all share the common dialing plan of NPA-NXX+station digits. (NPA is Number Plan Area or Area Code)

B: in a mechanical switch like a Strowger based or a SC X-Y switch, meaning non-SPC (stored program control) digit 1 was an unlock digit. It look only one movement of the mechanical switch to cut through to a DDD (direct distance dialing) toll trunk and all subsequent digits were sent to the CAMA (centralized automatic message accounting) office (AKA toll center or it could also have been the high side of a local switch) for billing and the call was completed through the then AT&T toll network (Pre equal access). ?The reason for this was everything in the North American Numbering Plan was based on ten digits and was reflecting the limitation of the #4 crossbar and its electronic register senders that could only rack 10 digits. ?That¡¯s why there wasn¡¯t IDDD (international direct distance dialing) until the 1970¡¯s when the #4ESS was deployed.?

Extra extra bonus point question: When looking at an international phone number dialed from the US, how can you tell in what World Zone your call terminates?

73

Kevin Magloughlin?
Sr Translations Engineer
CONTEL Hershey NeMAC?
GTE North Telephone Operations?
Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

I agree.? I worked SXS in the 1960's and this was the standard.? After stored program controlled switches became available some local telephone companies like the one I worked for opted to keep the "1" required for toll calls in order to make it clear to the subscriber that this was a toll call and charges may be applied.? I believe that neighbouring New York Tel did not do this.

Joe
Southern New England Telephone Co. 1966-1995

On 11/19/2022 5:42 AM, Kevin Magloughlin wrote:
B: in a mechanical switch like a Strowger based or a SC X-Y switch, meaning non-SPC (stored program control) digit 1 was an unlock digit.
Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

Actually, it is not. ?The digit 1 as a first digit dialed has/had a double meaning.?

A: 1 means world zone 1. (WZ1) This zone is made up of North American, Canada and the Caribbean islands. ?So it is not just the United States. This zone has one aspect in common and that is they all share the common dialing plan of NPA-NXX+station digits. (NPA is Number Plan Area or Area Code)

B: in a mechanical switch like a Strowger based or a SC X-Y switch, meaning non-SPC (stored program control) digit 1 was an unlock digit. It look only one movement of the mechanical switch to cut through to a DDD (direct distance dialing) toll trunk and all subsequent digits were sent to the CAMA (centralized automatic message accounting) office (AKA toll center or it could also have been the high side of a local switch) for billing and the call was completed through the then AT&T toll network (Pre equal access). ?The reason for this was everything in the North American Numbering Plan was based on ten digits and was reflecting the limitation of the #4 crossbar and its electronic register senders that could only rack 10 digits. ?That¡¯s why there wasn¡¯t IDDD (international direct distance dialing) until the 1970¡¯s when the #4ESS was deployed.?

Extra extra bonus point question: When looking at an international phone number dialed from the US, how can you tell in what World Zone your call terminates?

73

Kevin Magloughlin?
Sr Translations Engineer
CONTEL Hershey NeMAC?
GTE North Telephone Operations?
Re: Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna.

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Agreed about the separate TX and RX antennas.? However I do this for two sets of repeaters at one of my sites.? 1 antenna two transmitters, two receivers 3 db of loss in each branch work well.,? on the RX side I added a 6 or 9 db preamp this works very well? both TX to both RX isolation is >110db.? I also do this for a pair of UHF links? the splits aren¡¯t anywhere near as good as the first system 420/423?? And 422/425??? Only 2 watts from each transmitter? again 3 db loss per branch UHF LOG pointed tot eh other site 30 miles away -70db signal level no receiver issues.

?

This can be done it takes a lot of time, patience and the right equipment, it requires looking at all four parameters while making adjustments then looking at all the other ports. RX BP windows can be a pain getting all the cables right.? 200 khz at UHF is as close as I will try for TX-TX spacing.

?

However what wasn¡¯t mentioned is what TX power levels the OP is using.

?

Each or the repeaters TX output is 25watts for the filters I built

?

Jim

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dan Woodie
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 10:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna.

?

Jim,

?

Using a combiner and multicoupler with 2 antennas vertically separated, one for TX and one for RX works well.? This is how most multi-channel commercial and public safety sites are configured.? Multiple duplex stations in the same band on a single antenna as the OP was suggesting does not.? Full stop.? The filters necessary to provide sufficient isolation will add too much insertion loss and/or you will end up with significant desense from lack of isolation.

?

Dan Woodie, CETsr

KC8ZUM?

?

On Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 8:22 PM James Kossow <jim.kossow@...> wrote:

Dan I have to disagree with you!? I have done combining for both UHF and VHF.? Is there loss? Yes, is there loss in any duplexer filter system? Yes!? If done correctly, do they preform well yes!!? It can actually can be beneficial because all frequencies are being taken into consideration.? Not some ham hanging his BPBR duplexer up and hook it to his repeater and his antenna and not paying attention to everything else on the site!?

?

I have done this where there was less than 1 meg between one groups UHF receiver and anther transmitter!? Neither saw degradation, why because it was thought out!? Separate master RX antennas and speperate TX antenna, and filtering to accommodate everyone.

?

One of my sites has 4 ham repeaters and 2 commercial repeaters on two antennas, no issues. repeater operate everywhere between 420-461 MHz.? same goes for VHF. Losses range from 1.5db to 3.5 db. but better than not having them at all!

?

In some places this is only practical, no more space on the tower, cost of another feedline run, antenna or even time might not be possible.? GMRS repeater combining with ham repeaters are a perfect example, one might exist but both could if the correct filtering is done.? Not only that but by virtue of how combiners are build it necessitates ?the use of isolators and bandpass filters which are good practice at any location!

?

Does it mean you have to have the right tools sure it does, hammers don¡¯t fix everything.

?

As for the damaged feedline, replace or pull it leaving something like that on the tower is just asking for problems PIM etc.

?

Jim

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dan Woodie
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 5:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna.

?

Can it be done?? Sort of if the frequencies used are ideal.

?

Is it a good idea?? NO

?

Will it perform well?? NO.? It will be a compromise setup at best, likely with a lot of insertion loss, desense, or both.?

?

If you don't have a lot of experience with tuning filters, access to appropriate filters/isolators, and the necessary test equipment (VNA, etc) then don't even consider it.??

?

You would be better off putting your efforts and funds into getting the antenna/feedline replaced.

?

Dan Woodie, CETsr

KC8ZUM

?

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 10:11 AM Keith Ford <keithford66@...> wrote:

can I put two UHF repeaters on the same antenna by putting some filtering in between them one is in business band and the other one is amateur radio band. Just reaching out there in a group has anybody ever done this before I've got one antenna that is damaged it appears to have water in it and the SWR is high.

?

thanks.

KF4RGR? ? ? ?Keith Ford
Re: Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna.

 

Jim,

Using a combiner and multicoupler with 2 antennas vertically separated, one for TX and one for RX works well.? This is how most multi-channel commercial and public safety sites are configured.? Multiple duplex stations in the same band on a single antenna as the OP was suggesting does not.? Full stop.? The filters necessary to provide sufficient isolation will add too much insertion loss and/or you will end up with significant desense from lack of isolation.

Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM?


On Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 8:22 PM James Kossow <jim.kossow@...> wrote:

Dan I have to disagree with you!? I have done combining for both UHF and VHF.? Is there loss? Yes, is there loss in any duplexer filter system? Yes!? If done correctly, do they preform well yes!!? It can actually can be beneficial because all frequencies are being taken into consideration.? Not some ham hanging his BPBR duplexer up and hook it to his repeater and his antenna and not paying attention to everything else on the site!?

?

I have done this where there was less than 1 meg between one groups UHF receiver and anther transmitter!? Neither saw degradation, why because it was thought out!? Separate master RX antennas and speperate TX antenna, and filtering to accommodate everyone.

?

One of my sites has 4 ham repeaters and 2 commercial repeaters on two antennas, no issues. repeater operate everywhere between 420-461 MHz.? same goes for VHF. Losses range from 1.5db to 3.5 db. but better than not having them at all!

?

In some places this is only practical, no more space on the tower, cost of another feedline run, antenna or even time might not be possible.? GMRS repeater combining with ham repeaters are a perfect example, one might exist but both could if the correct filtering is done.? Not only that but by virtue of how combiners are build it necessitates ?the use of isolators and bandpass filters which are good practice at any location!

?

Does it mean you have to have the right tools sure it does, hammers don¡¯t fix everything.

?

As for the damaged feedline, replace or pull it leaving something like that on the tower is just asking for problems PIM etc.

?

Jim

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dan Woodie
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 5:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna.

?

Can it be done?? Sort of if the frequencies used are ideal.

?

Is it a good idea?? NO

?

Will it perform well?? NO.? It will be a compromise setup at best, likely with a lot of insertion loss, desense, or both.?

?

If you don't have a lot of experience with tuning filters, access to appropriate filters/isolators, and the necessary test equipment (VNA, etc) then don't even consider it.??

?

You would be better off putting your efforts and funds into getting the antenna/feedline replaced.

?

Dan Woodie, CETsr

KC8ZUM

?

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 10:11 AM Keith Ford <keithford66@...> wrote:

can I put two UHF repeaters on the same antenna by putting some filtering in between them one is in business band and the other one is amateur radio band. Just reaching out there in a group has anybody ever done this before I've got one antenna that is damaged it appears to have water in it and the SWR is high.

?

thanks.

KF4RGR? ? ? ?Keith Ford
Re: 2022 Update - Favorite hardware/SIM option for data/telemetry?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

AJ,

As far as ISP provider goes you are at the mercy of what you can afford.? Some sites I have stuff in has a real cool ISP that knows hams don¡¯t use much bandwidth he gives them a free connection just asks that they don¡¯t go gobbling up tons of mbps.? He might rate limit IDK but never had an issues with his connection.? At two of my other sites my friend transport and ISP connection to a rural community I get a few MBPS for using my buildings.?

?

Cradlepoint is pretty good stuff even the older 4G LTE still does the job.? I just don¡¯t like relying of cellular companies.? Stay away from the RPi LTE modems we tried those out they kind of worked but after the second or third one my network guy gave up on them.? We tried starlink as a backup, trouble there is the latency? 400ms!!? Bandwidth was up and down but hey it is better than nothing.

?

Google SIMS are probably the cheapest option I forget how the account has to be set up but I did play with it awhile back?? look into that.

?

As far as site to site connectivity I do a couple things.? Two of my sites have licensed MW with a unlicensed 2.4GHz backup other places just have internet.? If you can I would suggest doing PTP IP networking.? Depending on how far apart your sites are and if they are LOS you could transport your own network.?

?

Next I would look at some sort of routed network.? I deploy a DMVPN IPSEC Tunnel network using Cisco ISR routers.? This is highly scalable and very adaptable to ROIP.? It does require a static public IP somewhere.? AT&T charges me $15/mo for 5 static IP¡¯s.? I have redundant hubs.? It is a pretty steep learning curve but has worked very well for me for the last couple years.? I have a friend back in FL that has one of my spoke routers.? I shipped him back a preconfigured router and ROIP hardware all he had to do was plug it in to his ISP router and talk.?

?

The advantage of a routed network is you can segment things.? Part of my network requires multicast, for that I can specify what LAN the multicast is transported on so it doesn¡¯t flood the entire network with traffic.? I use a separate LAN at each site for site control, cameras, virtual com ports, raspberry pi¡¯s, charge controllers, Monitoring is UPS devices etc.? I haven¡¯t got as far yet as adding IP phones but that is coming.? I can also specify what LAN or IP address has access to the internet and which don¡¯t.? this also leads it self to SNMP monitoring of network devices.

?

Once you have the basic configuration down it is pretty easy to copy.? The static routing tables are all handled in the hub routers, the spoke routers don¡¯t require as much configuration.? Running NHRP allows spoke to spoke sessions.?

?

The cisco ISRs I use are all pretty cheap.? I like the Cisco 2800, 2900 ISRs, as well as the 880, 881, 890, 891 and 892 routers.? I even have an 819 which has an LTE modem embedded that travels with me.? I can turn it on and use either a cellular connection or plug into the WAN port of the router from whatever ISP I get a connection from.

?

Other application you might look into are tailscale (a virtual VPN) very useful can be deployed on routers, installed on you phone, computer, I use this in conjunction with my routed network s a backup back door in.

?

Anyway there are my thoughts.

?

TNX Jim

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of K6LOR.com
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 6:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [repeater-builder] 2022 Update - Favorite hardware/SIM option for data/telemetry?

?

What is everyone's favorite combo of hardware and carrier for IP connectivity to your sites?

?

Background: We last looked at adding internet to our sites maybe 6 or 7 years ago using hotspots and the free tier of FreedomPOP for a possible DMR deployment. Priorities shifted and we focused instead on upgrading from crystal controlled hardware to our current MTR fleet.

?

We are rebooting this project now that the RoIP platform appears to have matured. At work we use a combination of Cradlepoint, Sierra Wireless, and Mikrotik hardware for LTE transport. Is there a particular router of choice paired with a reasonable IoT plan that we can deploy without substantial cost? I'm not see much out there on a cursory Google search for free or low cost SIMs anymore.

?

We have a very early deployment of AREDN in our region, however, it will not be an option for at least one of our sites due to tenant restrictions. We do, however, have excellent 4G coverage at all of our sites for the major carriers.

?

Thanks :)

AJ, K6LOR
Re: Voter Systems

 

At 11/18/2022 01:46 PM, you wrote:
Zero hangtime?? Nope..I found ~200-400ms max is needed...mobile chop causes the link to go rapidly off/on etc.. horrible...a SHORT hangtime on links smooths out everything..
I've been running zero hang time on my links for decades. The RXs feeding the TXs have Micor squelch so chopping isn't much of a problem. Recently I put a Kenwood TK-880 in link TX service & noticed that short dropouts are more of a problem because, unlike the xtal controlled link TXs I've been using, the TK-880 has a few milliseconds of keyup delay, so a quick 5 ms drop becomes more like 50 ms. So I use a 20 ms hang time & now the link TX never drops on mobile flutter.

Bob NO6B
Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Domestic. (+1) is the International Direct Dial Code for United States.?

Bill
AT&T Operations and Engineering. ?(retired).?


On Nov 18, 2022, at 7:16 PM, Chuck Kelsey <wb2edv@...> wrote:

? Can't remember for sure, but seems like it related to telling the CO to prepare for toll circuit call???




On 11/18/2022 9:47 PM, Kevin Magloughlin wrote:

And for extra bonus points, why do we dial 1 when making an interstate from a wire line phone?
Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Can't remember for sure, but seems like it related to telling the CO to prepare for toll circuit call???




On 11/18/2022 9:47 PM, Kevin Magloughlin wrote:

And for extra bonus points, why do we dial 1 when making an interstate from a wire line phone?
Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

Because one's phreaking box isn't working?

Ken


At 06:47 PM 11/18/2022, you wrote:

And for extra bonus points, why do we dial 1 when making an interstate from a wire line phone?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Makers of repeater controllers and accessories
Phone: (503) 678 6182
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave.
We offer complete turn-key repeater packages!
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
[]

Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

Try 011?31 229 230 044. ?
Re: International crystal manufacturing

 

And for extra bonus points, why do we dial 1 when making an interstate from a wire line phone?
2022 Update - Favorite hardware/SIM option for data/telemetry?

 

What is everyone's favorite combo of hardware and carrier for IP connectivity to your sites?

Background: We last looked at adding internet to our sites maybe 6 or 7 years ago using hotspots and the free tier of FreedomPOP for a possible DMR deployment. Priorities shifted and we focused instead on upgrading from crystal controlled hardware to our current MTR fleet.

We are rebooting this project now that the RoIP platform appears to have matured. At work we use a combination of Cradlepoint, Sierra Wireless, and Mikrotik hardware for LTE transport. Is there a particular router of choice paired with a reasonable IoT plan that we can deploy without substantial cost? I'm not see much out there on a cursory Google search for free or low cost SIMs anymore.

We have a very early deployment of AREDN in our region, however, it will not be an option for at least one of our sites due to tenant restrictions. We do, however, have excellent 4G coverage at all of our sites for the major carriers.

Thanks :)
AJ, K6LOR
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