That seems reasonable enough. I've yet to find a radio (or band) that I could use to run something continuously like that. Seems it would eventually eat PAs. Like trunked control channel repeaters occasionally do.
Dennis Mills, WB6OIL (SK) engineered a system somewhat like this. It was very unique in that the remote sites were MSF 5000s that received on 443MHz and transmitted on 439MHz. They had a several second hangtime to them and during that hangtime generated 2175Hz over the air. Once the hangtime ran out, the SpectraTAC link receiver at the comparator site would take over the 2175Hz generation into the comparator. There was an ever so slight "tick" when the remote site unkeyed. It worked EXTREMELY well.
I ended up with the comparator and link receivers from that system in a round-about manner when it was decommissioned. Never was able to lay hands on any of the specially-modified MSF 5000 stations though. Man that thing worked well, had a phone patch and everything. Some day I'd like to put it back together.
Transmit site, as I understand it was a 250W MICOR, by the way.
Chris
--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)
|
Em, not completed yet. I'll take one of
a 2RU box that is nt a drawer, but has the din rails.
Soon.
Tom K8TB
On 11/18/2022 3:20 PM, Eric Grabowski
via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Tom,
A picture is worth a thousand
words. Do you have one you feel comfortable sharing?
73 and aloha, Eric KH6CQ
|
Zero hangtime?? Nope..I found ~200-400ms max is needed...mobile chop causes the link to go rapidly off/on etc.. horrible...a SHORT hangtime on links smooths out everything.. or just run the link continuous with status tone on it..use high freq for CW ID and filter out at rcvr... Or just use COS...works for me
Chris WB5ITT?
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 3:41 PM Chris Baldwin via <surf_boy82= [email protected]> wrote: Best way to do it is use a regular crossband type configuration at the receiver site. For example, VHF receiver hooked up to a UHF transmitter. Zero hangtime. At the voter site, use a UHF link receiver that generates the status tone to the comparator.
If aligned properly, it works fine. You should be using the same radios at each site for everything to keep audio characteristics as close as possible.
Chris
--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)
|
Best way to do it is use a regular crossband type configuration at the receiver site. For example, VHF receiver hooked up to a UHF transmitter. Zero hangtime. At the voter site, use a UHF link receiver that generates the status tone to the comparator.
If aligned properly, it works fine. You should be using the same radios at each site for everything to keep audio characteristics as close as possible.
Chris
--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)
|
Re: International crystal manufacturing
Or you could forget temperature compensation and use a crystal
heater - way more stable than temp. comp.
Chuck
WB2EDV
On 11/18/2022 1:58 PM, Karl Shoemaker
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Yea, thanks Doug; it did try them but the phone call would not go
through. I believe the international code is " 01 " but no good.?
It used to work when I was with Kaelus talking to co workers in
Brisbane.?
I also tried the other one in UK, but based on your post, perhaps
they went under and got pick up by klove now? I'm interested in a
vendor that will compensate channel elements.?
Most of gear on the System is old school.? Purchasing newer,
expensive, frequency agile equipment is not an option for me at
this time.???? I tried Bomar but they said no.
I have my own (crude) procedure for compensation with temp coef
caps but I'd rather find a vender (like ICM) that has a
lab/testing area to do all of that.?
Besides, getting the CE for a MX radio back together is a
nightmare, mainly because I don't have a spot welder (the case is
steel, I think).?
The others, such as Micor has a cover that can be removed without
too much damage on the case. Same goes for the Mitrek.
------------
DougH
9:58am?? #195742 ?
Karl,
Try KLOVE (). ex Quarzlab.
Doug - GM7SVK
On 18/11/2022 17:37, Karl Shoemaker wrote:
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
|
Re: International crystal manufacturing
Bomar??
Oh hell no....poor quality...I threw anything from them away...
Hi Karl,
Have you tried?Bomar Crystal Company??
?
?
117 William Street
PO Box 10
Middlesex, NJ 08846?
+ 1 (732) 356-7787
+ 1 (800) 526-3935
FAX: + 1 (732) 356-7362
FAX: + 1 (800) 777-2197?
?
Pamela - N1ZKH
?
?
Friday, November 18, 2022, 12:37:29 PM, you wrote:
?
|
Re: International crystal manufacturing
If you have a lot of patience, and a lot of channel elements, I have had good success with just swapping the Xtal into an element that has good stability across the temperature range (~10f to 100f) I need. ? It takes a while and a wife that doesn't mind weird stuff in the freezer.
This works fine because I have about 50 spare mitrek elements.?? I have even begun to grade their performance, so I kinda know what to expect.
If you need a temperature controlled environment, you can also get the CH-25 from Kevin.? That keeps the temp on the xtal pretty close to whatever you set at (I recommend about 120F, as you want to be outside the possible warmest site temperature).?? This option works as well, but is also some work too.
Andy
Karl,
Try KLOVE ().
ex Quarzlab.
Doug - GM7SVK
On 18/11/2022 17:37, Karl Shoemaker
wrote:
Now that's been several years since they closed their doors anyone
heard if the "files" were kept?? My dream (yea, I know) is some of
the ex employees got together to start up a new company that
compensates channel elements.??? While I'm pipe dreaming, it would
be a plus if it was in the USA.
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
|
Re: International crystal manufacturing
Hi Karl,
Have you tried?Bomar Crystal Company?? ? ? 117 William Street
PO Box 10
Middlesex,
NJ 08846
? + 1 (732) 356-7787
+ 1 (800) 526-3935
FAX: + 1 (732) 356-7362
FAX: + 1 (800) 777-2197?
? Pamela - N1ZKH ? ?
Friday, November 18, 2022, 12:37:29 PM, you wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
?
|
I have a project with a voting system and wondered if there is a cheap way of transmitting this 2175Hz tone from a remote site? was gonna do microwave, but thats too expensive no internet at this remote site
Millin
From: "Mike Naruta AA8K" <AA8K@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 12:40:05 PM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Voter Systems
Hey, you're talking about some of my best work!
You forgot to mention lots of clip leads.
(I was once chastised by WB8MCS who told me, "No clip leads on the repeater!" ?That was back with tube receivers and transmitters and a real Carrier Operated Relay. ?We got mad at the kerchunkers because they would wear out the scrounged relays that we were using.)
-----------
The other thing that I absolutely abhor is to see something like perf boards, relays, dead-bug components, etc. gimmicked up to cure logic level incompatibilities, or tailor audio levels, or add RC delays, or whatever, especially when they're dangling off the back of equipment like a voter or repeater chassis backplane. ?I'm sure you know the kind of hackery I'm talking about which, fortunately, in the more-modern digital age has become less and less of a problem in commercial realms than it once was, but still seems to live on in the hammy world.
|
RF Technology IPPA150Q 180 watt continuous duty VHF (136-174 MHz) repeater amplifier. 1-3 watts in adjustable output to 180 watts. Built in 45 Amp power supply. 120VAC input, 19" 2RU rack mount.
Integrated Digital controller supporting full control and monitoring all sensors and alarms over LAN (SNMP v2c)
Remote IP control using the embedded web server (set or adjust your power remotely)
Quick key up response
Closed-loop control keeps output power at set point in a changing environment (i.e. input power, temperature, component tolerance, component ageing, etc.)
High RF shielding and isolation
Monitors antenna reflection and performance remotely over extended periods
5 temperature sensors to monitor heat generation internally
Automatic shut down on triggered events (adjustable)
50 Ohm input/output
Adjustable over entire frequency band without tuning (no sub bands)
IP address DHCP
$1000 plus shipping Paypal ok
I can provide screen shots of the GUI if you are interested.
TNX Jim
|
Re: Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna.
I built this for two repeaters that share a single antenna 444.5TX, 444.7TX and 449.5 RX and 449.7 RX.? I used 2 8¡± BP cavities on each TX with a two stage isolator and 3 4¡± BP cavities for the RX window.? 4 cavitie BPBR between RX and TX.? Right at 3db of loss.? 6 db preamp on the RX distribution.? Works well,? I have also done the same for some 420 link repeaters that link different systems at the same two sites.? Work well!! ? Dark grey are the ones for the first system I mentioned the lighter one is for the linked repeaters only 2 watts, input into the filters. Jim ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of David Cameron - IRLP Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 9:47 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna. ? I have a few sites doing this. As long as the frequencies are CLOSE enough. They have to be close enough that the passes and the notches are wide enough to cover both pairs.
Use a single 4 cavity or 6 cavity BpBr duplexer, receiver muticoupler, and a hybrid combiner. You lose half the TX power, but with modern transmitters that is not a big deal.
442.225 and 442.175 TX
447.225 and 447.172 RX
Using a Sinclair Q3330E, Sinclair UHF 2 channel multicoupler, and Sinclair hybrid combiner (two dual stage islolators, 2 harmonic filters, hybrid strip).
Dave Cameron
VE7LTD
|
Hey, you're talking about some of my best work!
You forgot to mention lots of clip leads.
(I was once chastised by WB8MCS who told me, "No clip leads on the repeater!" That was back with tube receivers and transmitters and a real Carrier Operated Relay. We got mad at the kerchunkers because they would wear out the scrounged relays that we were using.)
-----------
The other thing that I absolutely abhor is to see something like perf boards, relays, dead-bug components, etc. gimmicked up to cure logic level incompatibilities, or tailor audio levels, or add RC delays, or whatever, especially when they're dangling off the back of equipment like a voter or repeater chassis backplane. I'm sure you know the kind of hackery I'm talking about which, fortunately, in the more-modern digital age has become less and less of a problem in commercial realms than it once was, but still seems to live on in the hammy world.
|
JLPCB offers small-batch boards and SMD installation at pretty reasonable prices these days.? I wish it was a US company but until someone in the US starts up a similar business that is what we are stuck with.
Dan Woodie, CETsr KC8ZUM?
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 12:34 PM Karl Shoemaker < srg734@...> wrote: Lots of SMDs on the (OEM) board so you may need a wave machine or lots of pacience, LOL.? But ye,s it would be nice to start it up again. Same goes for the Doug Hall voter.
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
|
Tom,
A picture is worth a thousand words. Do you have one you feel comfortable sharing?
73 and aloha, Eric KH6CQ
On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 10:02:21 AM HST, K8TB <k8tb@...> wrote:
Jeff,
Those perf-boards and? a PL decoder here and a PL decoder there get away
from you.
I am rebuilding the Holland (Mi) repeater systems. New cabinet and some
nice Quantars and MTR-2000's. A Doug Hall voter and a JPS voter, and I
can switch between them.
?But you still need those little boards. So I had a leftover 2 ru
(3.5") rack drawer. Inside the drawer, I put two DIN rails, and I mount
everything on DIN plates. That way I can pull any board out if need be.
I have several captive wire, smaller gauge barrier strips up on 1"
standoffs that everything inside and outside goes to. I have four 1"
holes in the back with those nice plastic grommets. 1" in from those
holes are again, 1" standoffs that have cable ties, so all cables get
tied down. Oh, due to 50 years of broadcast engineering "experiences", I
made sure to leave loops on all cables going in this drawer so when I
pull the drawer out, it can!
What is nice about this is that there is room for many small boards, yet
there are no hanging chads anyplace. Took about 3 hours of labor to
drill up all the mounts, but now, all is well.
Tom K8TB
On 11/18/2022 2:35 PM, Jeff DePolo WN3A wrote:
>
> The other thing that I absolutely abhor is to see something like perf boards, relays, dead-bug components, etc. gimmicked up to cure logic level incompatibilities, or tailor audio levels, or add RC delays, or whatever, especially when they're dangling off the back of equipment like a voter or repeater chassis backplane.? I'm sure you know the kind of hackery I'm talking about which, fortunately, in the more-modern digital age has become less and less of a problem in commercial realms than it once was, but still seems to live on in the hammy world.
>
> ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? --- Jeff WN3A
|
Jeff,
Those perf-boards and? a PL decoder here and a PL decoder there get away from you.
I am rebuilding the Holland (Mi) repeater systems. New cabinet and some nice Quantars and MTR-2000's. A Doug Hall voter and a JPS voter, and I can switch between them.
?But you still need those little boards. So I had a leftover 2 ru (3.5") rack drawer. Inside the drawer, I put two DIN rails, and I mount everything on DIN plates. That way I can pull any board out if need be. I have several captive wire, smaller gauge barrier strips up on 1" standoffs that everything inside and outside goes to. I have four 1" holes in the back with those nice plastic grommets. 1" in from those holes are again, 1" standoffs that have cable ties, so all cables get tied down. Oh, due to 50 years of broadcast engineering "experiences", I made sure to leave loops on all cables going in this drawer so when I pull the drawer out, it can!
What is nice about this is that there is room for many small boards, yet there are no hanging chads anyplace. Took about 3 hours of labor to drill up all the mounts, but now, all is well.
Tom K8TB
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11/18/2022 2:35 PM, Jeff DePolo WN3A wrote:
The other thing that I absolutely abhor is to see something like perf boards, relays, dead-bug components, etc. gimmicked up to cure logic level incompatibilities, or tailor audio levels, or add RC delays, or whatever, especially when they're dangling off the back of equipment like a voter or repeater chassis backplane. I'm sure you know the kind of hackery I'm talking about which, fortunately, in the more-modern digital age has become less and less of a problem in commercial realms than it once was, but still seems to live on in the hammy world.
--- Jeff WN3A
|
Re: International crystal manufacturing
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 12:58 PM, Karl Shoemaker wrote:
Yea, thanks Doug; it did try them but the phone call would not go through. I believe the international code is " 01 " but no good.? It used to work when I was with Kaelus talking to co workers in Brisbane.?
Karl, I think you dial it just like it is on the website. 31 is their country code. Gerald wd0fyf
|
OK, I get where you're going. So I can see how if someone wanted to do
that, it's not a bad path. I guess I just feel much better using
un-modded cards as much as possible, so I can just pop one in and set
levels if I need to. I see what you're saying as well. I guess if I know I'm going to be the only one to ever use X device again, I have no problem modifying it to suit my needs. I mean, hell, we're talking about voters that are multiple decades old and have virtually no commercial value, it's not like they're going to be worth anything anyway after we're done with them in ham service. The other thing that I absolutely abhor is to see something like perf boards, relays, dead-bug components, etc. gimmicked up to cure logic level incompatibilities, or tailor audio levels, or add RC delays, or whatever, especially when they're dangling off the back of equipment like a voter or repeater chassis backplane. I'm sure you know the kind of hackery I'm talking about which, fortunately, in the more-modern digital age has become less and less of a problem in commercial realms than it once was, but still seems to live on in the hammy world. --- Jeff WN3A -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
|
Re: International crystal manufacturing
KLOVE has always been the actual maker of the Quartslab crystals....Quartslab was merely the front end seller....With Quartslab shut down (again), KLOVE decided to sell direct. Same quality as ICM from what I have heard. If you send them a schematic, they can make the crystal. I sent QSLB a schematic for a Spectrum SCT100 and SCR200 TX/RX set...they replied in 4 days with "no problem"....ICM had a run in with Spectrum on their 900MHz paging xmtrs and cost ICM almost $1million in a wasted run because they got the wrong info on the specs and the xtals would not meet tolerance and Spectrum wanted a refund ....I think Joe was out of the picture at Spectrum by then. ICM refused to sell Spectrum more rocks and Spectrum went to someone else (MAYBE Quartslab)....and sold the xtals themselves....stating only they had the right tolerance, etc... I sure miss ICM though.....
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 12:59 PM Karl Shoemaker < srg734@...> wrote: Yea, thanks Doug; it did try them but the phone call would not go through. I believe the international code is " 01 " but no good.? It used to work when I was with Kaelus talking to co workers in Brisbane.?
I also tried the other one in UK, but based on your post, perhaps they went under and got pick up by klove now? I'm interested in a vendor that will compensate channel elements.?
Most of gear on the System is old school.? Purchasing newer, expensive, frequency agile equipment is not an option for me at this time.???? I tried Bomar but they said no.
I have my own (crude) procedure for compensation with temp coef caps but I'd rather find a vender (like ICM) that has a lab/testing area to do all of that.?
Besides, getting the CE for a MX radio back together is a nightmare, mainly because I don't have a spot welder (the case is steel, I think).?
The others, such as Micor has a cover that can be removed without too much damage on the case. Same goes for the Mitrek.
------------
DougH
9:58am?? #195742 ?
Karl,
Try KLOVE (). ex Quarzlab.
Doug - GM7SVK
On 18/11/2022 17:37, Karl Shoemaker wrote:
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
|
Re: International crystal manufacturing
Yea, thanks Doug; it did try them but the phone call would not go through. I believe the international code is " 01 " but no good.? It used to work when I was with Kaelus talking to co workers in Brisbane.?
I also tried the other one in UK, but based on your post, perhaps they went under and got pick up by klove now? I'm interested in a vendor that will compensate channel elements.?
Most of gear on the System is old school.? Purchasing newer, expensive, frequency agile equipment is not an option for me at this time.???? I tried Bomar but they said no.
I have my own (crude) procedure for compensation with temp coef caps but I'd rather find a vender (like ICM) that has a lab/testing area to do all of that.?
Besides, getting the CE for a MX radio back together is a nightmare, mainly because I don't have a spot welder (the case is steel, I think).?
The others, such as Micor has a cover that can be removed without too much damage on the case. Same goes for the Mitrek.
------------
DougH
9:58am?? #195742 ?
Karl,
Try KLOVE (https://www.klove.nl). ex Quarzlab.
Doug - GM7SVK
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 18/11/2022 17:37, Karl Shoemaker wrote:
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
|
Karl,
Correct. Those are the GE comparators. These are the newer units that are black in color and have updated cards with LEDs on them. The older units are gray in color and have cards with incandescent lamps on them.
I personally wouldn't pay more than about $150-200 for one of them.
Chris
--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)
|
Chris Baldwin
Chris Boone WB5ITT
Karl Shoemaker