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Re: so whats everyone using for repeater controllers now?
开云体育The RLC controllers work well and are very stable. I have 2 of
the Club deluxe II controllers in places where they are only
visited 1-2 times a year. I also have a RLC-4 that has not been
touched in years, still working. My only complaint is there is no nice GUI to program the
controllers with. The Club II can get pretty involved with
programming. Chris, check out the store, there are RLC-3 io cards listed. I wish I still had my 3.
Don On 10/27/2022 7:40 AM, Allan Overcast
via groups.io wrote:
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Re: so whats everyone using for repeater controllers now?
Any chance for radio cards coming back for the 3,? Allan? I lost several in Harvey...two of my 3s are down to two cards each now Chris WB5ITT? On Thu, Oct 27, 2022, 9:09 AM Allan Overcast via <allanovercast=[email protected]> wrote: LinkComm controllers were moved to Audio Test Solutions, Inc (ATSI) several years ago.? So ATSI RLC controllers are the same as the LinkComm, I just wanted a separate company for the amateur product line. |
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Re: RB AP-50 Audio Processor vs SyntorX9000 vs Micor
开云体育John mentions the process on how he'd
implement one audio processing product that is "out there".? I
purposely didn't reference the AP-50 in my earlier post so people
wouldn't consider the post a sales opportunity.
John says that he'd apply clipping to audio that's spectrally flat.? I wouldn't - and here's why. Everyone knows the energy in the upper part of the frequencies for voice communications are considerably lower than the lower ones.? Clipping voice audio that's spectrally flat then doesn't apply as much processing to these upper frequencies that are lower in level.? I prefer to pre-emphasize the audio prior to clipping as it sounds better to me.? If you look at some of the exciters that have been used to build repeaters over the years, many of them, including the Motorola MICOR also pre-emphasize the audio before its application to the clipping stage.? In fact - some phase modulated exciters will pre-emphasize - clip - filter - de-emphasize and then feed the PM which ultimately pre-emphasizes the resulting audio.? Evidentially Motorola thought this sounded better too, otherwise they would not have gone through all of the pre - de machinations.? Motorola's FM exciters in this line simply deleted the de-emphasis stage so the resulting pre-emphasized - clipped - filtered audio was applied to the FM modulator. The AP-50 is designed to allow the builder to choose which method they feel is best for them.? This is very casually mentioned in the AP-50's data sheet. Like Bob Dengler said - the challenge is the overall headroom required.? Thankfully - with 12V applied to the output op-amp stage the circuit (just) makes it without adding clipping past the LPF, which would be terrible and defeat the protection the processing is supposed to provide in the first place. Kevin W3KKC On 10/26/2022 9:45 PM, John wrote:
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Re: QUANTAR VHF Audio Interface...
Jim,
I did try pins 9 & 34 first.? No luck.? I measured 620 ohm DC across those two pins so I believe I have continuity through to the audio input.? Since I'm getting a DC resistance of 620 ohms, I suspect I'm looking into an electronically balanced input with a 620 ohm terminating resistor. So, if you or anyone else listening in might have any specific suggestions on making it work I sure would appreciate hearing them. Burt, K6OQK |
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Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
What did you use to tune or check the tuning of the duplexer?? Can you give a brief description?I used my Rigol DSA-815TG. I used a directional coupler and went cavity by cavity and tuned each cavity for best return loss. I then set each cavity for the desired insertion loss. I coupled the 3 cavities together and readjusted the return loss on each pass. After that I set the notches on each side and made sure to adjust for any interactions after messing with the notches on the other side. |
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Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
What did you use to tune or check the tuning of the duplexer?? Can you give a brief description?
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On 10/26/2022 9:11 PM, Jared Smudde wrote:
I have a VHF MTR2000 with a Repeater Builder MMDVM board running DMR and analog. The duplexer is a Sinclair Q2330E that has about 1.3DB of IL and right around 105DB in the reject notches, I just tuned them up earlier today. I have the MTR dumping 55 watts into the cans while testing at home. The problem I'm running into is that the repeater is basically deaf to 5 watt portables barely a mile from my house, mobiles work a bit further but both DMR and Analog don't work when this happens. I've gone as far as to recheck the duplexer tuning and they are tuned properly as far as I can tell. |
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RB AP-50 Audio Processor vs SyntorX9000 vs Micor
开云体育 This ongoing discussion on setting repeater audio stimulated me to check out Kevin's AP-50 which had been sitting in the workshop for years without being put to use. There has been absolutely no collusion or discussion with Kevin . Years ago I had made the enclosed graph on first a SyntorX9000 mic input audio vs deviation from 50-5000cps, and then as comparison a phase modulated Micor and then a FM?? modulated Micor, all on 6 meters. It is not quite apples vs apples because the modulation limiter was set for max dev at 1000cps of a bit more than +-6Kz on the X9000, unknown level on the phase modulated Micor, and +-9KHz? at 1000cps on the FM Micor. As you can see, the X9000 had an exactly even 6dB/ octave pre-emphasis from 50 to 2250 cps and a superior roll off above 3KHz. (could make a good sounding repeater). The AP-50 did not have the pre-emphasis option? hooked up before the clipper so you can see how flat it is between 250 and 3000cps, but wow what a comparatively steep roll off above 3000cps! The input level on the AP-50 was set below clipping for this test. 10K input resistance, 100 ohm output resistance, 12.6V power as specified for the AP-50
All the discussion points came together. If I were to put together another repeater, from the discussions, I would, go into the receiver to flat audio output that is de-emphasized, notch the RX PL tone, place the P-50 probably after the controller where the audio is still not pre-emphasized? so any desired clipping is done on flat audio? and depending on how the transmitter is configured, either do mic input or digital input, and probably no equilization required. The transmitter modulation limiter would either be bypassed via the digital input, or if the mic input was used, the mod limiter would need to set to at least 9 KHz peak for the repeater to pass up to 3KHz audio unimpeded. Actually I find about 2700cps is just fine for the repeat audio to sound same as direct especially if channel spacing is any tighter than 20 KHz.
John W1GPO
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VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
I have a VHF MTR2000 with a Repeater Builder MMDVM board running DMR and analog. The duplexer is a Sinclair Q2330E that has about 1.3DB of IL and right around 105DB in the reject notches, I just tuned them up earlier today. I have the MTR dumping 55 watts into the cans while testing at home. The problem I'm running into is that the repeater is basically deaf to 5 watt portables barely a mile from my house, mobiles work a bit further but both DMR and Analog don't work when this happens. I've gone as far as to recheck the duplexer tuning and they are tuned properly as far as I can tell.
I've measured the MTR2000 12db SINAD at around 0.35?V which meets factory specs. I set up a densense test with the repeater connected to the duplexer and the antenna port terminated into a dummy load. I took the receiver from the MTR hooked to the receive side of the duplexer through an ISO-T. It took my signal generator set to -54DBM to get 20DB SINAD. With the transmitter putting out power into the duplexer, I had to adjust the output to -53DBM to get it back to 20DB SINAD. Now, this may all be margin of error as Motorola R1200 I'm using as a signal generator acts flaky and the other service monitor I'm using, the SINAD meter always jumps around so I may be chasing a ghost here. I have had a similar issue on a UHF MTR that was deaf in the same way, even though it met sensitivity specs, it was still deaf. I took it back to the dealer and they fixed the alignment and I've never had an issue since with it. I aligned this VHF MTR2000 myself with my somewhat questionable equipment so it is possible something is messed up on the alignment. I've already decided to send the repeater away in a few days so they can check my handy work. Do my crude desense test results point to an issue, if indeed the results are 100% accurate?? |
Don Clark
Chris Boone WB5ITT
Kevin Custer
Burt K6OQK
Jared Smudde
