Re: WACOM WP-641 vs. Sinclair Q2330E
And the reason why the Ns have less notch? Kit Parsons himself told me when I ordered my 220 652s in 1984. He sent a handwritten note with the invoice to my PO box...I had ordered with type Ns..he wrote "Chris, call me collect if you need to...they are better with UHF connectors!"?
So I called him in my dime lol ..he explained the notch in the BpBr depends on the height of the T above the cavity..Ns are taller than UHFs...he said if they could make the cable connection right on top of the can, they could see 110 to 120db notch vs 90 to 95 on the WP641s for example...he didn't like using BNCs which are shorter because of the loose fit of the bayonet.. TNC probably would have done it..but hey he was the engineer and owner. I wasn't going to argue ?
I sure miss Kit and WACOM...great customer service and I helped sell a lot of his products in SE TX..offered to represent WACOM at Dayton one time but Kit got back to me and said the lawyers said no... Ugh..and the LMR Expo was at the same time then..oh well?
Now you know the reeeeest of the story (as one of my ex coworkers used to say)
Chris?
The WACOM WP-641 provides 93 dB of
rejection at 1.5dB of insertion loss at 600 kHz - if it's a UHF
connector version.? If it's an N connector version the rejection
is 91 dB or so (yes it's less).? It's easy to tune with simple
equipment.? If the cavity interconnect cables say "Modified RG214"
you should consider replacing that cable with real RG214/U.? While
the cable supplied is double shielded - it's not silver plated.
The Sinclair Q2330e provides nearly 100dB of rejection at 1.5dB of
insertion loss at 600 kHz.? This duplexer is considerably more
difficult to tune, requiring a VNA (or RLB) to set the pass
frequencies.
You don't state what your receive sensitivity is, or whether or
not you're going to use a preamp.? If not - either duplexer is
sufficient for the MSR-2000.? If you want more reserve isolation -
use the Sinclair.
Kevin W3KKC
On 3/27/2025 6:27 PM, Mike Besemer - WM4B via wrote:
I have
both of these duplexers available to
replace an existing system.? The site itself is a
water tower with an existing DB224 that has been made available
to me.? It is mounted at the very
top-center of the
tank.? There is
a backup fire department repeater at the
site on UHF.? I don’t
even think it’s
plugged in.
The tower
also has 5G panels mounted all the way around the perimeter.
Given that
space is not a consideration
and all things being equal, which of the subject
duplexers would you choose to put behind an MSR-2000 running
50 –
60 watts out of the PA?? I have experience with the
WP-641, but not the Sinclair.
73,
Mike
WM4B
|
Already covered above, but here are a number of ways to feed multiple antennas with 50 ohm feed-points.
?
2 x 50 ohm antennas:
?
?
Stacking distances also affect the compression of the elevation beam-width and the resulting peak gain figure, that matters for horizontal VHF DX work where we trade some gain away (under-stacking them at lower heights above ground) for a wider elevation beam-width to better hear signals arriving at different angles.
?
:-)
?
--
Lonney, K1LH
North Pole, AK.
?
?
|
Re: IC FR4000 flat audio for MMDVM and DMR conversion?
At 3/28/2025 03:22 AM, you wrote:
Looking at the manual that you
provided, you have the correct point marked
Chris WB5ITT
"Splutter filter"?? Must be related to the "Lipple
Filter" found in many Kenwood service manuals ;)
Bob MO6V
|
Its not related to a J-pole, the DB Products dipoles are simply a center fed dipole with a fat grounded element and the driven element is a folded monopole. Probably much lower impedance than a typical dipole of 72 ohms in free space due to its girth but when placed really close to a tower leg the impedance gets pulled way down.?
?
I recently picked one up at a swap meet and used some excellent info from this group and tuned it for 6m.?
?
|
Need schematic for Motorola MSF 5000 UHF Repeater Amplifier 75w Model TLE2522A
I’m looking for a schematic for a Motorola MSF 5000 UHF Repeater Amplifier 75w Model TLE2522A. if you have one, please let me know
?
?
?
73,
…Gary, KE8O
|
Re: IC FR4000 flat audio for MMDVM and DMR conversion?
On 2025-03-28 6:22 a.m., Chris Boone
WB5ITT via groups.io wrote:
Looking at the manual that you provided, you have the
correct point marked
Chris WB5ITT
I never worked with an IC FR4000 and I had a request to
help a group of ham make a DMR repeater from a FR4000.
?
To do it, we need to have flat audio in and out. and I
was able to find the information for the TX section. But
the RX I am not sure.?
?
?
the way I see it, Pin 9 is ok for the TX side??
and pin 12 is ok for the RX side??
?
Anyone ever used that repeater for DMR?
?
Thanks
?
Pierre VE2PF
<-- Hi Pierre:? Something in the back of my cranial filing
cabinet tells me that this repeater is not suitable for digital
use.? I'd check to ensure the exciter is a true FM exciter (not
PM), and there's no AGC, etc.
Cheers!
Ramesh, VA3UV, WA3UV
|
That is indeed a DB-225 (see catalog pic). Notice the? 1.5 SWR bandwidth at 50 MHz is only 0.5 MHz compared to the a DB212 which has a bandwidth slightly more than 1MHz on 6M. Therefore, if duplexing with a? 1MHz split, in order to keep the duplexer from detuning, if you can get it mounted to the leg so the air space between the inner loop tubing and the tower leg to be 6.5 inches like it is on a DB212, then I would saw off the 3"x2" boom beyond the dipole loop, because the director is limiting the bandwidth. . That air distance is critical for a 50 ohm match.?
?
Drill out all of the dimples holding the 5/8'OD loops with a 1/4" drill bit and tap them out. Saw off the needed amount off the 3/4" OD or 7/8 " OD straight tubing, but exercise extreme care not to break the element insulator in the process! (did it on one)
?
DB factory lengths for your frequency was 50 7/8" from edge of 3" boom to tip on each half, or 104 3/4" overall tip to tip, however I found for 1.0 SWR, the upper loop ends up about 3/4" shorter than the lower because of the coax center conductor pig tail radiating and the top is a loop, the bottom just a wide element. (basically a J pole antenna.)
?
John
?
?
?
? ?
On 03/28/2025 12:55 AM EDT Hudson, John@CalOES via groups.io <john.hudson@...> wrote:
?
?
On Mar 27, 2025, at 13:29, Roger willey via groups.io <kc4jnn@...> wrote:
This Message is From an External Sender
This message came from outside your organization.
?
I think they should be on the same side of the tower 12 feet apart. My frequency is ?53.050 input is 52.050?
On Mar 27, 2025, at 2:56?PM, John via groups.io <jhaserick84@...> wrote:
?
If the coax to the T is 50ohms, then yes , an electrical 1/4 wavelength of 35 ohm coax from the T to the feedline. You could? less ideally alternatively do two? 1/4 wavelength 75 ohm coaxial cables in parallel . Try to use polyethylene jacketed coax for longer life.. Both 50 coaxial cable antenna pigtails need to be the same length, but can be any length.? ?
I recommend mounting both antennas on the same tower leg.Those UHF T connectors are difficult to waterproof. without using butyl rubber under Scotch 88. First tape one layer of 88 , then squeeze and mold the butyl rubber, then 2 layers of 88 on the outside, to make it easier to remove the butyl rubbber when it eventually gets disassembled. Messi and Paolini in Italy make great 75 ohm direct bury type coax, if you are forced to go that route.
?
John
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
if the?
On 03/27/2025 12:32 PM EDT Roger willey via groups.io <kc4jnn@...> wrote:
?
?
?
Begin forwarded message:
From: Roger willey <kc4jnn@...>
Date: March 26, 2025 at 2:45:40?PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: 6 m repeater antenna
I have a 6 m folded dipole antenna, two of them with coaxial lines going to a T what length of cable should I use out of the T to get The impedance and the length? I was thinking maybe 35 Ohm
WARNING: Do not click links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the email is safe.
?
|
That's actually called a DB225...single dipole with director.... I've been dealing with them for over 45 years.. This one looks to be homemade though.. a DB212 loop with a homemade director.. there's no wood in a Decibel antenna?
Chris WB5ITT? Chilled on Friday ??
Chill out Chris.
That is a DB antenna. It is a 212 folded dipole with a director.? Ran into one on a paging system around 35MHz, it was a monster but that’s low band.
In order to recycle it to 6 meters the length of the radiating element and the director need to be shortened as well as the spacing between the radiator and the director.? The piece that connects the radiator and the director is rectangular extruded aluminum tube.? The antenna must mount on a tower leg. ??
In the case of the 35MHz version that I encountered, the tower was square, a very old observation platform, and the desired direction of maximum radiation meant that the antenna was mounted in the middle of the one side of the tower, resulting in very high reflected power.? After a call to DB, the antenna was remounted using an aluminum mast that was 10 ft longer than the antenna, several side mount kits, and lots of crossover brackets to push the antenna 4 ft outward from the face of the square tower. This arrangement allowed the transmitter to be happy but the antenna was very good at catching wind and eventually had to be guyed in place. ?
Milt N3LTQ On Mar 28, 2025, at 06:17, Chris Boone WB5ITT via <setxtelecom=[email protected]> wrote:
? Number one that's a poor picture because it's doesn't show everything and I can't zoom in, number two that looks like a homebrew antenna because the wood support boom and it looks like PVC holding up the far end of the folded dipole (is it folded?)? That's not a DB212 ... I'm not even sure that's a 50 ohm antenna. DB products in their DB212 uses a special harness designed for both impedance and bandwidth. To connect two 50ohm antennas together,? you need a phasing harness of 75 ohm coax odd multiple of 1/4 wave length ..this raises the antenna Z to 100ohm at the end and a T with both antennas tied to it becomes a 50ohm feed.
Chris WB5ITT? On Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 11:58 PM Hudson, John@CalOES via <john.hudson= [email protected]> wrote:
![image2.jpeg]()
?
This Message is From an External Sender
This message came from outside your organization.
I think they should be on the same side of the tower 12 feet apart. My frequency is ?53.050 input is 52.050?
?
?
If the coax to the T is 50ohms, then yes , an electrical 1/4 wavelength of 35 ohm coax from the T to the feedline. You could? less ideally alternatively do two? 1/4 wavelength 75 ohm coaxial cables in parallel
. Try to use polyethylene jacketed coax for longer life.. Both 50 coaxial cable antenna pigtails need to be the same length, but can be any length.? ?
I recommend mounting both antennas on the same tower leg.Those UHF T connectors are difficult to waterproof. without using butyl rubber under Scotch 88. First tape one layer of 88 , then squeeze and mold the butyl rubber, then 2 layers of 88 on the outside,
to make it easier to remove the butyl rubbber when it eventually gets disassembled. Messi and Paolini in Italy make great 75 ohm direct bury type coax, if you are forced to go that route.
?
John
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
if the?
?
?
?
Begin forwarded message:
I have a 6 m folded dipole antenna, two of them with coaxial lines going to a T what length of cable should I use out of the T to get The impedance and the length? I was thinking maybe 35 Ohm
WARNING: Do not click links or attachments unless you recognize
the sender and know the email is safe.
Attachments:
|
Chill out Chris.
That is a DB antenna. It is a 212 folded dipole with a director. ?Ran into one on a paging system around 35MHz, it was a monster but that’s low band.
In order to recycle it to 6 meters the length of the radiating element and the director need to be shortened as well as the spacing between the radiator and the director.? The piece that connects the radiator and the director is rectangular extruded aluminum tube. ?The antenna must mount on a tower leg. ??
In the case of the 35MHz version that I encountered, the tower was square, a very old observation platform, and the desired direction of maximum radiation meant that the antenna was mounted in the middle of the one side of the tower, resulting in very high reflected power. ?After a call to DB, the antenna was remounted using an aluminum mast that was 10 ft longer than the antenna, several side mount kits, and lots of crossover brackets to push the antenna 4 ft outward from the face of the square tower. This arrangement allowed the transmitter to be happy but the antenna was very good at catching wind and eventually had to be guyed in place. ?
Milt N3LTQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 28, 2025, at 06:17, Chris Boone WB5ITT via groups.io <setxtelecom@...> wrote:
? Number one that's a poor picture because it's doesn't show everything and I can't zoom in, number two that looks like a homebrew antenna because the wood support boom and it looks like PVC holding up the far end of the folded dipole (is it folded?)? That's not a DB212 ... I'm not even sure that's a 50 ohm antenna. DB products in their DB212 uses a special harness designed for both impedance and bandwidth. To connect two 50ohm antennas together,? you need a phasing harness of 75 ohm coax odd multiple of 1/4 wave length ..this raises the antenna Z to 100ohm at the end and a T with both antennas tied to it becomes a 50ohm feed.
Chris WB5ITT? On Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 11:58 PM Hudson, John@CalOES via <john.hudson= [email protected]> wrote:
?
This Message is From an External Sender
This message came from outside your organization.
I think they should be on the same side of the tower 12 feet apart. My frequency is ?53.050 input is 52.050?
?
?
If the coax to the T is 50ohms, then yes , an electrical 1/4 wavelength of 35 ohm coax from the T to the feedline. You could? less ideally alternatively do two? 1/4 wavelength 75 ohm coaxial cables in parallel
. Try to use polyethylene jacketed coax for longer life.. Both 50 coaxial cable antenna pigtails need to be the same length, but can be any length.? ?
I recommend mounting both antennas on the same tower leg.Those UHF T connectors are difficult to waterproof. without using butyl rubber under Scotch 88. First tape one layer of 88 , then squeeze and mold the butyl rubber, then 2 layers of 88 on the outside,
to make it easier to remove the butyl rubbber when it eventually gets disassembled. Messi and Paolini in Italy make great 75 ohm direct bury type coax, if you are forced to go that route.
?
John
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
if the?
?
?
?
Begin forwarded message:
I have a 6 m folded dipole antenna, two of them with coaxial lines going to a T what length of cable should I use out of the T to get The impedance and the length? I was thinking maybe 35 Ohm
WARNING: Do not click links or attachments unless you recognize
the sender and know the email is safe.
Attachments:
|
Looks like a homemade clone of a DB-225
antenna. It would be mounted to a metal mast or tower that must
extend beyond the top of the folded dipole. The DB-225 is a 50-ohm
antenna. Since this one is homemade, hard to tell what impedance
it is, and I agree, the photo is poor. Can't see how the feedline
attaches. The DB-225 had pigtails long enough to bring it to a tee
connector at the proper spacing. The center of the tee went to an
electrical 1/4 wave section of 35-ohm coax which then attached to
the 50-ohm heliax transmission line.
Chuck
WB2EDV.
On 3/28/2025 1:13 AM, Mike via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Interesting, is that a 2 element Yagi with the driven element
that gets snuggled up close to the mast then a director out
front? If so they are not relying on the mast as a reflector as
it looks like the mounting bracket goes on top of a mast leaving
the hot side of the driven element above the mast.?
|
Re: IC FR4000 flat audio for MMDVM and DMR conversion?
Looking at the manual that you provided, you have the correct point marked
Chris WB5ITT
I never worked with an IC FR4000 and I had a request to help a group of ham make a DMR repeater from a FR4000.
?
To do it, we need to have flat audio in and out. and I was able to find the information for the TX section. But the RX I am not sure.?
?
?
the way I see it, Pin 9 is ok for the TX side??
and pin 12 is ok for the RX side??
?
Anyone ever used that repeater for DMR?
?
Thanks
?
Pierre VE2PF
|
Re: Icom FR4000-3 Repeater
I passed along version 1.4 to Jeremy
?Chris WB5ITT?
you aint no orphan mate.? Human failibillity!?
let me know if you need that software and dont locate it. I am on email as per QRZ.?
Maxwell VK5AC.
?
?
|
Number one that's a poor picture because it's doesn't show everything and I can't zoom in, number two that looks like a homebrew antenna because the wood support boom and it looks like PVC holding up the far end of the folded dipole (is it folded?)? That's not a DB212 ... I'm not even sure that's a 50 ohm antenna. DB products in their DB212 uses a special harness designed for both impedance and bandwidth. To connect two 50ohm antennas together,? you need a phasing harness of 75 ohm coax odd multiple of 1/4 wave length ..this raises the antenna Z to 100ohm at the end and a T with both antennas tied to it becomes a 50ohm feed.
Chris WB5ITT? On Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 11:58 PM Hudson, John@CalOES via <john.hudson= [email protected]> wrote:
?
This Message is From an External Sender
This message came from outside your organization.
I think they should be on the same side of the tower 12 feet apart. My frequency is ?53.050 input is 52.050?
?
?
If the coax to the T is 50ohms, then yes , an electrical 1/4 wavelength of 35 ohm coax from the T to the feedline. You could? less ideally alternatively do two? 1/4 wavelength 75 ohm coaxial cables in parallel
. Try to use polyethylene jacketed coax for longer life.. Both 50 coaxial cable antenna pigtails need to be the same length, but can be any length.? ?
I recommend mounting both antennas on the same tower leg.Those UHF T connectors are difficult to waterproof. without using butyl rubber under Scotch 88. First tape one layer of 88 , then squeeze and mold the butyl rubber, then 2 layers of 88 on the outside,
to make it easier to remove the butyl rubbber when it eventually gets disassembled. Messi and Paolini in Italy make great 75 ohm direct bury type coax, if you are forced to go that route.
?
John
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
if the?
?
?
?
Begin forwarded message:
I have a 6 m folded dipole antenna, two of them with coaxial lines going to a T what length of cable should I use out of the T to get The impedance and the length? I was thinking maybe 35 Ohm
WARNING: Do not click links or attachments unless you recognize
the sender and know the email is safe.
|
Re: Icom FR4000-3 Repeater
you aint no orphan mate.? Human failibillity!?
let me know if you need that software and dont locate it. I am on email as per QRZ.?
Maxwell VK5AC.
?
?
|
Re: Can I use a low power programming cable to program high power astro spectra?
But you can steer it to a lower number in Device Mangler.
|
Re: WTB: 107.2 Hz Vibrasender
The KLN6209 or a TLN6824 will also work.?
The TLN6824 is common as it was the Micor encode reed.
Mike WA6ILQ
|
Interesting, is that a 2 element Yagi with the driven element that gets snuggled up close to the mast then a director out front? If so they are not relying on the mast as a reflector as it looks like the mounting bracket goes on top of a mast leaving the hot side of the driven element above the mast.?
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2025, at 13:29, Roger willey via groups.io <kc4jnn@...> wrote:
?
This Message is From an External Sender
This message came from outside your organization.
I think they should be on the same side of the tower 12 feet apart. My frequency is ?53.050 input is 52.050?
On Mar 27, 2025, at 2:56?PM, John via groups.io <jhaserick84@...> wrote:
?
?
If the coax to the T is 50ohms, then yes , an electrical 1/4 wavelength of 35 ohm coax from the T to the feedline. You could? less ideally alternatively do two? 1/4 wavelength 75 ohm coaxial cables in parallel
. Try to use polyethylene jacketed coax for longer life.. Both 50 coaxial cable antenna pigtails need to be the same length, but can be any length.? ?
I recommend mounting both antennas on the same tower leg.Those UHF T connectors are difficult to waterproof. without using butyl rubber under Scotch 88. First tape one layer of 88 , then squeeze and mold the butyl rubber, then 2 layers of 88 on the outside,
to make it easier to remove the butyl rubbber when it eventually gets disassembled. Messi and Paolini in Italy make great 75 ohm direct bury type coax, if you are forced to go that route.
?
John
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
if the?
On 03/27/2025 12:32 PM EDT Roger willey via groups.io <kc4jnn@...> wrote:
?
?
?
Begin forwarded message:
From: Roger willey <kc4jnn@...>
Date: March 26, 2025 at 2:45:40?PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: 6 m repeater antenna
I have a 6 m folded dipole antenna, two of them with coaxial lines going to a T what length of cable should I use out of the T to get The impedance and the length? I was thinking maybe 35 Ohm
WARNING: Do not click links or attachments unless you recognize
the sender and know the email is safe.
|
Re: Icom FR4000-3 Repeater
I've had some progress tonight. Two simple mistakes I should have avoided.
First, the mini-stereo socket I used for the homemade OPC-592 adapter was a mono jack. The third pin was for audio muting upon jack insert, not a contact for the center ring. I should have caught that.?
Second, I discovered that I have the "CS-F3000" software but need "CS-FR3000" . Icom could have made the distinction between the two a little better, but I digress.?
So now I'm in pursuit of CS-FR3000 v1.4t hat Icom no longer offers. Hopefully more progress once I can source the proper program.?
Jeremy K1LFK?
On Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 10:33?PM Scott Haney via <11c30usaret= [email protected]> wrote: Sorry I can't solve your issue, but any Icom gurus responding to you may know about my "Revision B" problem when I try to read one of ,my IC-4000-3 machines. I ended up using it as a donor for parts to get two other ones running.
Scott? K7SAH
On Thu, Mar 27, 2025 at 4:41?PM Jeremy Hansen via <jeremyhansen27= [email protected]> wrote: Good evening all,?
I'm having difficulty reading two (very dirty) Icom FR-4000-3 repeaters that I recently acquired for rehab. My software is CS-F3000 version 1.1 and I am using a genuine OPC-478 cable with a homemade OPC-592 (mini-stereo to RJ-45) adapter. PC is Windows 10 with a known good usb-serial adapter. I've double checked the simple two-wire adapter pin out and am confident I have RJ-45 pins 2 and 7 properly terminated to the ring and sleeve of the mini-stereo.?
No communication between the radio and software. Is there anything special about putting the FR3/4000 series repeaters in "clone" or programming mode? No specific guidance in the owners and service manuals other than indicating power-on is all that's required (unless entering service mode, which has separate instructions).?
Any insights are greatly appreciated.?
Jeremy K1LFK?
|
Re: WACOM WP-641 vs. Sinclair Q2330E
At 3/27/2025 03:27 PM, you wrote:
I have both of these duplexers
available
to replace an existing system.? The site
itself is a water tower with an existing DB224 that has been made
available to me.? It is mounted at the
very top-center of the tank.?
There is a backup fire department repeater at
the site
on UHF.? I don’t even think it’s plugged
in.
The tower also has 5G panels mounted all the
way around the perimeter.
Given that space is not a
consideration and all things being
equal, which of the subject duplexers
would you choose to put behind an MSR-2000 running 50
– 60 watts out of the PA?? I have
experience with the WP-641, but not the
Sinclair.
I recommend the WP-641.
Bob NO6B
|
Chris Boone WB5ITT
Gary, KE8O
maxwelloau
Hudson, John@CalOES