I will disagree with your opening statement. Repeaters are NOT open unless the trustee decides they are open. Unlike 146.52, a repeater pair is assigned to a particular person or group in a certain geographical area by a recognized frequency coordinating council. At that point in time, not only is the repeater, but the frequency belongs to the person or group. He may decide to only allow certain club members access that repeater. It is his choice. In my opinion, not a good way to run a repeater, but that’s not the point. As trustee of several repeaters for our club, I make the decision to allow or disallow someone use of our machines. Like you said, not only is the club’s license on the line, but mine as well. I will not hesitate to ban or suspend someone from using one of our machines if they are operating in a manner I deem detrimental to the club or our license. Hopefully a friendly warning will suffice.? ?
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On Jan 5, 2025, at 12:05?PM, Michael Robinson via groups.io <mlrobinson1953@...> wrote:
? Good Day, All.
In the U.S., all repeaters are "supposedly" open.? All owners of 47CFR97 controlled systems are "trustees" under the rules and regs of the CFR.? As trustees, you are responsible for proper operation and conduct of use of your (or a club's equipment, in my case) repeater system.? If a user shows misconduct, you may ask him to not use the equipment (make sure that you document it and have a witness) if he is unwilling to change his conduct.? If he/she refuses, and claims that the repeater is "open" for all to use, you should inform him/her that such is the case as long as the rules (FCC) and observed and followed.? Should they argue the point, again document the incident and ask that the repeater not be used.? Temporary restraints (PL tones, DCM, CC, etc) can be implemented, but it is just a matter of time before he/she discovers the changes and is back after it again.? This now becomes malicious, aberrant behavior and is not in sync with Amateur Radio Codes of Conduct (the unwritten rules to keep the peace in radio arenas) and expected observance of the rules and regs.? Time to locate your District FCC Field Office and ask the Director for possible solutions and possible enforcement actions against said violators.
In my case(s), I shut down the repeater so the violator has no access.? What usually happens next is the stream of phone calls from the locals who use the repeater wondering why the repeater is down.? I then explain the reason(s) and allow the locals to assist in dealing (legally, of course) with the offender(s).? Most of the time, it solves the problem and I don't need to make the phone call to the Director of the District FCC Field Office.
I have no problem with calling in the OO's.? I'm not filling the trustee position to win any popularity contests.? My license is tied to the Club's call sign and if activity begins to threaten my license, I do what is necessary for it's preservation.
As usual, this is just my $0.02 worth.? Best Regards,
Michael L Robinson, KC0TA
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Good Day, All.
In the U.S., all repeaters are "supposedly" open.? All owners of 47CFR97 controlled systems are "trustees" under the rules and regs of the CFR.? As trustees, you are responsible for proper operation and conduct of use of your (or a club's equipment, in my case) repeater system.? If a user shows misconduct, you may ask him to not use the equipment (make sure that you document it and have a witness) if he is unwilling to change his conduct.? If he/she refuses, and claims that the repeater is "open" for all to use, you should inform him/her that such is the case as long as the rules (FCC) and observed and followed.? Should they argue the point, again document the incident and ask that the repeater not be used.? Temporary restraints (PL tones, DCM, CC, etc) can be implemented, but it is just a matter of time before he/she discovers the changes and is back after it again.? This now becomes malicious, aberrant behavior and is not in sync with Amateur Radio Codes of Conduct (the unwritten rules to keep the peace in radio arenas) and expected observance of the rules and regs.? Time to locate your District FCC Field Office and ask the Director for possible solutions and possible enforcement actions against said violators.
In my case(s), I shut down the repeater so the violator has no access.? What usually happens next is the stream of phone calls from the locals who use the repeater wondering why the repeater is down.? I then explain the reason(s) and allow the locals to assist in dealing (legally, of course) with the offender(s).? Most of the time, it solves the problem and I don't need to make the phone call to the Director of the District FCC Field Office.
I have no problem with calling in the OO's.? I'm not filling the trustee position to win any popularity contests.? My license is tied to the Club's call sign and if activity begins to threaten my license, I do what is necessary for it's preservation.
As usual, this is just my $0.02 worth.? Best Regards,
Michael L Robinson, KC0TA
“In the beginning of a change the Patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot.”
― Mark Twain
When Tyranny becomes Law, Revolution becomes Duty!
There is a ham in So Cal that has been banned from several repeaters and from what I hear in most cases the repeater owner/trustees sent him a letter and may have copied the local FCC office. In one case the repeater owner verbally banned him on the air. Not sure what happens if the ham were to continue operating on these repeaters but so far I don't believe he has.?
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Re: MTR 2000 - PA fan reports not work, but it is working
I am not familiar with the details of that radio, but higher power broadcast transmitters and industrial.controls use an air flow detector to confirm enough air flow for cooling. Just knowing the fan is spinning is not enough. Something to consider.
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Karl,
The information you provided to Gervais is NOT correct.
On a MICOR VHF power amplifier - you have to switch the A- (A
minus) during transmit.? This logic can be sourced from the PTT of
the repeater controller.? In other words A- needs grounded during
transmit.? A- is a connection on the side of the PA - and usually
has a wire attached that plugs onto the station.? This can be
easily accomplished using a relay or transistor sourced from the
PTT logic.? Some repeater controllers can provide the logic
directly as the current is not excessive.
----
The drive power level between a GE MASTR II VHF PA and a Motorola
MICOR VHF PA is EXACTLY the same.?
GE Exciters put out 200mW and have nothing between the exciter and
power amplifier.? Therefore the power amplifier has an input power
level of 200mW.
Motorola MICOR VHF Exciters put out 400mW but an exciter band-pass
filter that has 1.5 to 3dB insertion loss exists in between the
exciter and PA.? As such - about 200mW is delivered from the BP
filer to the input of the power amplifier.? Therefore, the
Motorola MICOR VHF power amplifier is properly driven with a GE
MASTR II exciter with nothing in between.
Kevin
On 1/5/2025 2:02 AM, Karl Shoemaker via groups.io wrote:
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Gervais, ? The Motorola PA B- has to be switched in order
for the amplifier to work (unless you modify it like I do).
?If you do have a "hot" PA be sure to protect it with an
isolator and cavity if you are at a populated site.?
Also, RF power input standards are different between GE and
Motorola; +23 and +26 dbm, respectively.? Best way to blow an
amplifier is over driving it.
?
GE PA's can be repaired if you can find the parts and
properly troubleshoot it. The hardest part to find may be the
power control module. It's either blue or black on the outside
with many pins.
So, isolate if it's a (power) transistor(s) or an
IC-control problem. Also, the braid or strap between the
boards have a habit of opening up. That's near the filter
board. ?
?
Heat is not so much the big issue here, it's the extreme
hot and cold cycling that destroys semi-conductors and other
components
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
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Gervais, ? The Motorola PA B- has to be switched in order for the amplifier to work (unless you modify it like I do). ?If you do have a "hot" PA be sure to protect it with an isolator and cavity if you are at a populated site.?
Also, RF power input standards are different between GE and Motorola; +23 and +26 dbm, respectively.? Best way to blow an amplifier is over driving it.
?
GE PA's can be repaired if you can find the parts and properly troubleshoot it. The hardest part to find may be the power control module. It's either blue or black on the outside with many pins.
So, isolate if it's a (power) transistor(s) or an IC-control problem. Also, the braid or strap between the boards have a habit of opening up. That's near the filter board. ?
?
Heat is not so much the big issue here, it's the extreme hot and cold cycling that destroys semi-conductors and other components
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
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How much are you wanting for each of the CM300s?
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Re: MTR 2000 - PA fan reports not work, but it is working
I just punched in the model number of the fan on Google and bought one from Mouser, exact fan, just 20 years newer lol. Was like $10 or something, it’s been about 2 years since I bought it.
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Re: Think we bricked a quantar.
I mentioned in a previous post I made this would happen.? You have to program the unit with a saved image you said you have on disk, using the CSS programming software.? Once done, your lock lights should come up OK then.
?
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Re: Digital voice vs analog
I've used Burt's repeater and can say it is the highest fidelity thing I've ever hear on a 5KHz channel.?
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hi everyone,
first Best 2025 to all of you ! and i appreciate a lot the tolerance of the Moderator when i arrived with some questions that are not full repeater subjet!
i dont remember but on the old big heavy 100 watts Micor PA ,if you apply 250-300 mw will it transmit automatically??? like the Master 2 PA ???
just to know if i could find one to replace my actual GE .
thanks for the info
Gervais ve2ckn
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WTB, Motorola UHF R2 100 watt RF Power Amp
Greetings to the Group,
?
Looking for a working Motorola UHF R2 (438-470 MHz.) 100 watt RF power amp.
?
Thanks,
?
Randy K9MMQ
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There is a ham in So Cal that has been banned from several repeaters and from what I hear in most cases the repeater owner/trustees sent him a letter and may have copied the local FCC office. In one case the repeater owner verbally banned him on the air. Not sure what happens if the ham were to continue operating on these repeaters but so far I don't believe he has.?
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At 1/4/2025 12:12 PM, you wrote:
I built and maintained multiple
repeaters on multiple bands, on multiple mode for me or for
club/organisation.?
In no time I feel that I can prevent anyone from using a repeater but if
it is being abused in a way that prevents the normal use by any other
ham.?
Although SoCal has a lot of closed/private repeaters, particularly on the
70 cm band, many of these are not private to prevent general usage but
rather to maintain control.? We have at least one system that used
to be listed as open but one person decided he didn't have to obey the
usage rules established by the sponsoring club.? The club tried to
kick him off the repeater but IIRC the unwanted user retaliated in court
on the grounds that the repeater was "open", so the repeater
changed to closed status.? Most of my repeaters are listed as
private for this reason.? I don't mind visitors coming up on my
repeaters; if they want to use it regularly I only ask that they provide
contact info (e-mail, phone # etc.) in case of problems (had a stuck mic
once; knowing where everyone was made it easier to find).
In rural areas all of the above probably doesn't make any sense, but here
in SoCal & probably other similarly large metro areas it's a
different world on VHF/UHF.
Bob NO6B
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Chriss, encryption is illegal in Canada, unless the key is available for everyone?to enter into your radio and be able to listen to the stream.? ? ? Thank you for the clarification. ? ?
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Chriss, encryption is illegal in Canada, unless the key is available for everyone?to enter into your radio and be able to listen to the stream.? This have been reported to me as being what ISDE said to the aredn people of Gatineau.
Le sam. 4 janv. 2025, à 15 h 07, Chris Smart via <ve3rwj= [email protected]> a écrit?: Speaking of closed systems, some hams in Hamilton Ontario Canada (allegedly) have an encrypted DMR machine. ? Is that legal in Canada? I know encrypted transmissions are illegal on the amateur service in the US, but I don’t know if our rules differ. ? Thanks ? 73 Chris VE3RWJ ? ?
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I built and maintained multiple repeaters on multiple bands, on multiple mode for me or for club/organisation.? In no time I feel that I can prevent anyone from using a repeater but if it is being abused in a way that prevents the normal use by any other ham.?
That repeater may have been paid in full by me, or for the club/organisation or a mix of the 2. I dont?care. The frequencies are not mine. The air waves are not mines. And if there is a price to pay for the site, or for the internet or such, if I decide to install my stuff there, it is my responsibility to pay. If I cannot?pay anymore because of?a price hike I will ask for help. If none come, the repeater will be removed. I made the decision to put something online. It is my responsibility to pay for it. If the user wants to help, I am ok with it. but It wont give them more access than any other ham that did not help.?
Requesting money to use something I had fun installing and maintaining?is not ok. My fun is solving problems and building systems.. I am not a big ragchew?guy. When I was going to work every morning, I was on the repeater and the same when I was going back home. But now that I am retired. I do some digital HF stuff and I am the Brandmeister Canada server sysop, and I am working for our local club federation and I do technical stuff for anyone asking for it, but specifically more for a club that I like.??
My point of view, If you don't?like doing the job and the pride of doing it is not enough for you, well, let other people do it. If you really need it, then it is your problem, not others.?
Pierre VE2PF
Le sam. 4 janv. 2025, à 09 h 14, TheCuecat via <dasbugle= [email protected]> a écrit?: Well time for me to throw to half Pennie’s into the mess. And I fall directly into this question. I put my own DMR system because dmr around me sucks and the coverage is worth crap.?
those hotspot things are about as useless as the coverage is so I put my own. I tried to listing the machine with my RepeaterBook but they refuse to list the machine.?
so screw it I return it in when I want run a weird color code and I get the coverage I want.?
no one else near uses it because well it hasn’t been listed. Does it make MY machine private. Kinda but not on purpose.?
I run gmrs ? Even got a two meter machine out of a dead xpr8400.?
As for owning a frequency that’s a WB2hww thing.?
go on his machine and he’ll start with I own you and every time I inlet it’ll make you want to talk.?
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Speaking of closed systems, some hams in Hamilton Ontario Canada (allegedly) have an encrypted DMR machine. ? Is that legal in Canada? I know encrypted transmissions are illegal on the amateur service in the US, but I don’t know if our rules differ. ? Thanks ? 73 Chris VE3RWJ ? ?
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Hi all
To me running a closed repeater system goes totally against the ethos of Amateur radio. I'm also in Australia and all repeater systems must be open to any licensed ham to use which is the right thing to do. It is not very welcoming to new hams or visitors to your area when they get kicked off a repeater because the haven't payed your dues. No wonder AR is dying and repeaters are dead all the time.
?
73's
Rob VK5TRM
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Looking to sell my Hewlett-Packard 8590A option 001 $600 plus shipping
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Re: Digital voice vs analog
900 MHz is where we did the most experimentation with hearclear. One local repeater runs it, another does not. We tested on Mike k8mdm's 900 quantar with and without it as well.
We normally don't run it on our fm repeaters If there's a chance folks are using non Motorola radios.
Originally we were using maxtracs as remote bases, but lately have shifted to GE TMX and Phoenix's. I designed an adapter board that allows you to plug a RIM lite for the maxtrac into a GE TMX.
I seem to recall the 4550s and 5550s also having hearclear on DMR, but that could be my rusty memory. I know the 4580 and 5580 have it.
73,
Alan km4ba On January 4, 2025 10:15:25 AM EST, "Milton Engle via groups.io" <n3ltq@...> wrote:
If I recall correctly Motorola’s HearClear system was only available on 900MHz and maybe 800 MHz radios. It was not available on VHF & UHF.
On Jan 3, 2025, at 11:23, Alan KM4BA <ml9003@...> wrote:
?On 1/2/2025 2:24 PM, Jim Barbour via groups.io wrote:
Ok, I know some motorola's had something they called "hear-clear" that is a compandering scheme, but I'm sure not every radios had it...
Others mfg's also had some form of compandering, but not all.
We have experimented with hearclear on both moto FM and DMR radios and FM repeaters. Also Maxtrac based remote bases.
If you are running Moto radios so the whole system is hearclear, it's a great thing. If some of the radios are not, it's noticable but still useful.
Have fun,
Alan KM4BA
thanks,
Alan
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Kevin Custer
Karl Shoemaker
Jared Smudde
Gervais Fillion
Pierre Martel
Rob VK5TRM
Alan KM4BA