Re: Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna.
It can be done well, and yes, I have done it well.
See my much earlier post on the subject.
Jim W7RY CETma
On 11/18/2022 7:02 PM, Dan Woodie
wrote:
Can it be done?? Sort of if the frequencies used
are ideal.
Is it a good idea?? NO
Will it perform well?? NO.? It will be a
compromise setup at best, likely with a lot of insertion loss,
desense, or both.?
If you don't have a lot of experience with
tuning filters, access to appropriate filters/isolators, and
the necessary test equipment (VNA, etc) then don't even
consider it.??
You would be better off putting your efforts and
funds into getting the antenna/feedline replaced.
Dan Woodie, CETsr
KC8ZUM
can I put two UHF repeaters on the same
antenna by putting some filtering in between them one is in
business band and the other one is amateur radio band. Just
reaching out there in a group has anybody ever done this
before I've got one antenna that is damaged it appears to
have water in it and the SWR is high.
thanks.
KF4RGR? ? ? ?Keith Ford
--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
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Looking for a PROVEN power supply regulator board design
Dear group,
Any recommendationpower supply regulator board circuit which is tested and proven? I would like to build a pair of 30-40A power supplies for a friend and could use some help
Thanks Alexandre, PU2SEX Enviado do meu Tele-Movel
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Re: Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna.
Dan I have to disagree with you!? I have done combining for both UHF and VHF.? Is there loss? Yes, is there loss in any duplexer filter system? Yes!? If done correctly, do they preform well yes!!? It can actually can be beneficial because all frequencies are being taken into consideration.? Not some ham hanging his BPBR duplexer up and hook it to his repeater and his antenna and not paying attention to everything else on the site!? ? I have done this where there was less than 1 meg between one groups UHF receiver and anther transmitter!? Neither saw degradation, why because it was thought out!? Separate master RX antennas and speperate TX antenna, and filtering to accommodate everyone. ? One of my sites has 4 ham repeaters and 2 commercial repeaters on two antennas, no issues. repeater operate everywhere between 420-461 MHz.? same goes for VHF. Losses range from 1.5db to 3.5 db. but better than not having them at all! ? In some places this is only practical, no more space on the tower, cost of another feedline run, antenna or even time might not be possible.? GMRS repeater combining with ham repeaters are a perfect example, one might exist but both could if the correct filtering is done.? Not only that but by virtue of how combiners are build it necessitates ?the use of isolators and bandpass filters which are good practice at any location! ? Does it mean you have to have the right tools sure it does, hammers don¡¯t fix everything. ? As for the damaged feedline, replace or pull it leaving something like that on the tower is just asking for problems PIM etc. ? Jim ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dan Woodie Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 5:02 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna. ? Can it be done?? Sort of if the frequencies used are ideal. Will it perform well?? NO.? It will be a compromise setup at best, likely with a lot of insertion loss, desense, or both.? If you don't have a lot of experience with tuning filters, access to appropriate filters/isolators, and the necessary test equipment (VNA, etc) then don't even consider it.?? You would be better off putting your efforts and funds into getting the antenna/feedline replaced. ? can I put two UHF repeaters on the same antenna by putting some filtering in between them one is in business band and the other one is amateur radio band. Just reaching out there in a group has anybody ever done this before I've got one antenna that is damaged it appears to have water in it and the SWR is high.
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Re: Two UHF repeaters sharing the same antenna.
Can it be done?? Sort of if the frequencies used are ideal.
Is it a good idea?? NO
Will it perform well?? NO.? It will be a compromise setup at best, likely with a lot of insertion loss, desense, or both.?
If you don't have a lot of experience with tuning filters, access to appropriate filters/isolators, and the necessary test equipment (VNA, etc) then don't even consider it.??
You would be better off putting your efforts and funds into getting the antenna/feedline replaced.
Dan Woodie, CETsr KC8ZUM
can I put two UHF repeaters on the same antenna by putting some filtering in between them one is in business band and the other one is amateur radio band. Just reaching out there in a group has anybody ever done this before I've got one antenna that is damaged it appears to have water in it and the SWR is high. thanks. KF4RGR? ? ? ?Keith Ford
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Re: International crystal manufacturing
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Karl Shoemaker Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 7:53 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] International crystal manufacturing ? So, not to be stupid,? my complete keystrokes on my desk pad would be (come off hook, of course)? 01 31 229 230 044 ?
If so, I can't believe I missed that crucial step, considering my background.? No dog bone for me tonight.
Considering the time difference (what? UTC -1 hour) I'll make the call around 3am my time.
Don't get old, it's awful.
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
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Re: International crystal manufacturing
Correction, UTC + 1
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
|
Re: International crystal manufacturing
So, not to be stupid,? my complete keystrokes on my desk pad would be (come off hook, of course)? 01 31 229 230 044 ? If so, I can't believe I missed that crucial step, considering my background.? No dog bone for me tonight. Considering the time difference (what? UTC -1 hour) I'll make the call around 3am my time. Don't get old, it's awful.  -- - Regards, Karl Shoemaker To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at? for the current email address.
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How Many Have Done SPD/ACPR Testing?
This is an informal survey prompted by the recent bandwidth discussion.
There are over 5000 members of this list including many highly technical people.
Some of you must have done this testing.? Please share what you learned.
Attached is an example test of a Motorola APX portable in TIA format.
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Re: International crystal manufacturing
All, Since paper telephone directories are more rare than a chicken with teeth, the internet is your friend. ?
To dial any telephone number FROM the U.S. (international phone call) the first digits you punch in after hearing ¡®dial tone¡¯ are ¡°011¡± to access the outgoing circuits, then the two or three digits of the destination country code, then the destination telephone number. ?
The poster offering ¡°01¡± almost had it. ? Keep smiling. ?
Dave McBrayer? Auburn, CA?
-- Dave McBrayer? N6OJJ Auburn, CA
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Wow-they want WAAAY too much for those! I can't see going much above $100 for one...
And the one on top in the bottom pic is just a cage with some MastrII cards in it. None of those are for the voter.
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On 11/18/2022 1:34 PM, Karl Shoemaker wrote: So, this is what the guys are talking about for GE?? This is on ebay. I guess I did not remember the two "version" the older, gray one (which I'm somewhat been around) and the newer(?) dark one?
Maybe the latter is after the "old" GE got bought out by M/A comm, or Harris or whatever this month ?? Hold on, I just noticed it says for a Mastr 3???? Woops..............
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at <>
for the current email address.
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That seems reasonable enough. I've yet to find a radio (or band) that I could use to run something continuously like that. Seems it would eventually eat PAs. Like trunked control channel repeaters occasionally do.
Dennis Mills, WB6OIL (SK) engineered a system somewhat like this. It was very unique in that the remote sites were MSF 5000s that received on 443MHz and transmitted on 439MHz. They had a several second hangtime to them and during that hangtime generated 2175Hz over the air. Once the hangtime ran out, the SpectraTAC link receiver at the comparator site would take over the 2175Hz generation into the comparator. There was an ever so slight "tick" when the remote site unkeyed. It worked EXTREMELY well.
I ended up with the comparator and link receivers from that system in a round-about manner when it was decommissioned. Never was able to lay hands on any of the specially-modified MSF 5000 stations though. Man that thing worked well, had a phone patch and everything. Some day I'd like to put it back together.
Transmit site, as I understand it was a 250W MICOR, by the way.
Chris
--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)
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Em, not completed yet. I'll take one of
a 2RU box that is nt a drawer, but has the din rails.
Soon.
Tom K8TB
On 11/18/2022 3:20 PM, Eric Grabowski
via groups.io wrote:
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Tom,
A picture is worth a thousand
words. Do you have one you feel comfortable sharing?
73 and aloha, Eric KH6CQ
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Zero hangtime?? Nope..I found ~200-400ms max is needed...mobile chop causes the link to go rapidly off/on etc.. horrible...a SHORT hangtime on links smooths out everything.. or just run the link continuous with status tone on it..use high freq for CW ID and filter out at rcvr... Or just use COS...works for me
Chris WB5ITT?
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 3:41 PM Chris Baldwin via <surf_boy82= [email protected]> wrote: Best way to do it is use a regular crossband type configuration at the receiver site. For example, VHF receiver hooked up to a UHF transmitter. Zero hangtime. At the voter site, use a UHF link receiver that generates the status tone to the comparator.
If aligned properly, it works fine. You should be using the same radios at each site for everything to keep audio characteristics as close as possible.
Chris
--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)
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Best way to do it is use a regular crossband type configuration at the receiver site. For example, VHF receiver hooked up to a UHF transmitter. Zero hangtime. At the voter site, use a UHF link receiver that generates the status tone to the comparator.
If aligned properly, it works fine. You should be using the same radios at each site for everything to keep audio characteristics as close as possible.
Chris
--
Chris Baldwin, CETSr. (KF6AJM)
Trustee - MetroNET Cal. Intertie (KB3PX)
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Re: International crystal manufacturing
Or you could forget temperature compensation and use a crystal
heater - way more stable than temp. comp.
Chuck
WB2EDV
On 11/18/2022 1:58 PM, Karl Shoemaker
wrote:
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Yea, thanks Doug; it did try them but the phone call would not go
through. I believe the international code is " 01 " but no good.?
It used to work when I was with Kaelus talking to co workers in
Brisbane.?
I also tried the other one in UK, but based on your post, perhaps
they went under and got pick up by klove now? I'm interested in a
vendor that will compensate channel elements.?
Most of gear on the System is old school.? Purchasing newer,
expensive, frequency agile equipment is not an option for me at
this time.???? I tried Bomar but they said no.
I have my own (crude) procedure for compensation with temp coef
caps but I'd rather find a vender (like ICM) that has a
lab/testing area to do all of that.?
Besides, getting the CE for a MX radio back together is a
nightmare, mainly because I don't have a spot welder (the case is
steel, I think).?
The others, such as Micor has a cover that can be removed without
too much damage on the case. Same goes for the Mitrek.
------------
DougH
9:58am?? #195742 ?
Karl,
Try KLOVE (). ex Quarzlab.
Doug - GM7SVK
On 18/11/2022 17:37, Karl Shoemaker wrote:
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
|
Re: International crystal manufacturing
Bomar??
Oh hell no....poor quality...I threw anything from them away...
Hi Karl,
Have you tried?Bomar Crystal Company??
?
?
117 William Street
PO Box 10
Middlesex, NJ 08846?
+ 1 (732) 356-7787
+ 1 (800) 526-3935
FAX: + 1 (732) 356-7362
FAX: + 1 (800) 777-2197?
?
Pamela - N1ZKH
?
?
Friday, November 18, 2022, 12:37:29 PM, you wrote:
?
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Re: International crystal manufacturing
If you have a lot of patience, and a lot of channel elements, I have had good success with just swapping the Xtal into an element that has good stability across the temperature range (~10f to 100f) I need. ? It takes a while and a wife that doesn't mind weird stuff in the freezer.
This works fine because I have about 50 spare mitrek elements.?? I have even begun to grade their performance, so I kinda know what to expect.
If you need a temperature controlled environment, you can also get the CH-25 from Kevin.? That keeps the temp on the xtal pretty close to whatever you set at (I recommend about 120F, as you want to be outside the possible warmest site temperature).?? This option works as well, but is also some work too.
Andy
Karl,
Try KLOVE ().
ex Quarzlab.
Doug - GM7SVK
On 18/11/2022 17:37, Karl Shoemaker
wrote:
Now that's been several years since they closed their doors anyone
heard if the "files" were kept?? My dream (yea, I know) is some of
the ex employees got together to start up a new company that
compensates channel elements.??? While I'm pipe dreaming, it would
be a plus if it was in the USA.
--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
|
Re: International crystal manufacturing
Hi Karl,
Have you tried?Bomar Crystal Company?? ? ? 117 William Street
PO Box 10
Middlesex,
NJ 08846
? + 1 (732) 356-7787
+ 1 (800) 526-3935
FAX: + 1 (732) 356-7362
FAX: + 1 (800) 777-2197?
? Pamela - N1ZKH ? ?
Friday, November 18, 2022, 12:37:29 PM, you wrote:
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--
-
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
?
|
I have a project with a voting system and wondered if there is a cheap way of transmitting this 2175Hz tone from a remote site? was gonna do microwave, but thats too expensive no internet at this remote site
Millin
From: "Mike Naruta AA8K" <AA8K@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 12:40:05 PM Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Voter Systems
Hey, you're talking about some of my best work!
You forgot to mention lots of clip leads.
(I was once chastised by WB8MCS who told me, "No clip leads on the repeater!" ?That was back with tube receivers and transmitters and a real Carrier Operated Relay. ?We got mad at the kerchunkers because they would wear out the scrounged relays that we were using.)
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The other thing that I absolutely abhor is to see something like perf boards, relays, dead-bug components, etc. gimmicked up to cure logic level incompatibilities, or tailor audio levels, or add RC delays, or whatever, especially when they're dangling off the back of equipment like a voter or repeater chassis backplane. ?I'm sure you know the kind of hackery I'm talking about which, fortunately, in the more-modern digital age has become less and less of a problem in commercial realms than it once was, but still seems to live on in the hammy world.
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RF Technology IPPA150Q 180 watt continuous duty VHF (136-174 MHz) repeater amplifier. 1-3 watts in adjustable output to 180 watts. Built in 45 Amp power supply. 120VAC input, 19" 2RU rack mount.
Integrated Digital controller supporting full control and monitoring all sensors and alarms over LAN (SNMP v2c)
Remote IP control using the embedded web server (set or adjust your power remotely)
Quick key up response
Closed-loop control keeps output power at set point in a changing environment (i.e. input power, temperature, component tolerance, component ageing, etc.)
High RF shielding and isolation
Monitors antenna reflection and performance remotely over extended periods
5 temperature sensors to monitor heat generation internally
Automatic shut down on triggered events (adjustable)
50 Ohm input/output
Adjustable over entire frequency band without tuning (no sub bands)
IP address DHCP
$1000 plus shipping Paypal ok
I can provide screen shots of the GUI if you are interested.
TNX Jim
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Alexandre Souza
Mike Besemer - WM4B
Karl Shoemaker
Chris Baldwin
Chris Boone WB5ITT