Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
At 11/2/2022 09:35 AM, you wrote: Spec for the MTR2000 VHF is 0.35 uv or -116 dbm at 12db SINAD, so his receiver is pretty close. 1 dB less than that is typically what I get out of a MASTR II or MVP, which has the same spec. However, at least here in SoCal that's pretty much equal to the noise floor on 2 meters. Depending on the site I may or may not try adding a preamp; in most cases no because the actual S/N improvement is insignificant. However at 0.4 uV that's 2 dB worse, which in most cases would clearly be throwing away S/N. So I wouldn't be happy with 0.4 uV either - worth getting that 1 dB or (hopefully) more back. Bob NO6B
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Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
Spec for the MTR2000 VHF is 0.35 uv or -116 dbm at 12db SINAD, so his receiver?is pretty close.
Brian n1bs
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On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 12:14 PM Kevin Custer < kuggie@...> wrote: Okay - -
Yea - -115dBm for 12 dB SINAD is pretty numb. Many receivers are much
better at -120 (something) or so for 12dB SINAD.
On 11/2/2022 11:30 AM, Jared Smudde wrote:
> The MTR is reading 0.4uV (115 dBm) at 12DB SINAD. I’ve aligned the
> repeater 3 times now and even tried directly to the port on the
> receiver module. I must be doing something wrong, my UHF MTRs are much
> more sensitive.
>
> I need to take a VHF MaxTrac I have and test it’s 12DB SINAD by itself
> and then through the duplexer and see how it goes. I’m sure I’m
> chasing a ghost and really have a receiver issue.
--
Amateur call: n1bs
Brian Swann
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Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
Okay - -
Yea - -115dBm for 12 dB SINAD is pretty numb. Many receivers are much better at -120 (something) or so for 12dB SINAD.
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On 11/2/2022 11:30 AM, Jared Smudde wrote: The MTR is reading 0.4uV (115 dBm) at 12DB SINAD. I’ve aligned the repeater 3 times now and even tried directly to the port on the receiver module. I must be doing something wrong, my UHF MTRs are much more sensitive.
I need to take a VHF MaxTrac I have and test it’s 12DB SINAD by itself and then through the duplexer and see how it goes. I’m sure I’m chasing a ghost and really have a receiver issue.
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Re: Somewhat OT... imaging a hard drive...
?
IDE drive device ID/order is determined by the controller (typically only one is present).
SATA drive device ID/order is determined by which SATA port/cable a drive is connected to.
The BIOS has no drivers.? It is coded to recognize sets of standard interfaces/devices and access them accordingly.
Most/many BIOS do provide a Boot Order selection - by device type/port. Perhaps this is what you're referring to?
Upon boot the BIOS will detect/instantiate known devices and determine which if any device/media contains boot information and try to follow the boot order selected above.
Typically the first device is IDE 0 or SATA 0.
'most' BIOS provides a visible or hidden key-press option to select which device to boot from different from the default Boot Order above.? This allows you to select a CD/DVD for raw boot/OS installation, a bootable USB 'stick' - for OS or in this context a bootable GParted/Clonezilla stick running Linux, or other types of utility media that would likely be running WinPE to jump start an application or OS install process.
Once an OS kicks off it determines if it has a default/basic driver to access a device, or fail out if the boot 'build' doesn't know how to talk to something. Another level of discussion about device detection and drivers, etc.? Life was almost simpler way-back in DOS and DOS-based Windows days - then came a progression of industry groups to sort and organize all this into something expandable to the future today.? (interesting journey through all that, sorta, from the time I worked for a PC diagnostic company and "was there" when such things were evolving. )? ? Next we can talk about "device not found, driver errors, relevant to DOS vs Windows serial devices... Prolific/Prolific clones, FTDI, Motorola's bizarre serial data clocking for older HTs...)
Confused yet?? :O
?
On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 04:16 AM, Alan Beard wrote:
Taxing the brain, With XP, one had to mod the registry to go back to the bios for
the disk driver if the motherboard IDE or SATA driver changes. Then at first boot
on the new hardware, it will install the appropriate hard disk driver and video drivers.
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Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
The MTR is reading 0.4uV (115 dBm) at 12DB SINAD. I’ve aligned the repeater 3 times now and even tried directly to the port on the receiver module. I must be doing something wrong, my UHF MTRs are much more sensitive.
I need to take a VHF MaxTrac I have and test it’s 12DB SINAD by itself and then through the duplexer and see how it goes. I’m sure I’m chasing a ghost and really have a receiver issue.
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Can you give me some more details on how to make these measurements?
?
Brandon Vetter
Office 208-714-4651
Cell 208-625-0892
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Chris Boone via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 6:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] TKR-851 power issue
?
Did you measure the voltage at the PA transistor? I'd look at that first. Also measure the exciter output and see what it's doing. If I recall correctly, the repeater uses a relay to switch in and out a dropping resistor for backup DC operation.
I've seen that really fail or the circuit land open up. I had a TKR 750 that acted the same way but it had been underwater for 7 weeks after tropical storm Harvey! It worked for about 10 minutes until the microprocessor went crazy.
?
On Wed, Nov 2, 2022, 7:50 AM Brandon Vetter <Brandon@...> wrote:
Hi Group,
????????????? I have a TKR-851 that I thought had bad finals. It had about 2 watts output. Installed a new transmitter board with new driver and final transistors and now I get
3 Watts output. If I drop it to low power, I get less than 1 watt. The power in the software is turned up. The power adjustment pot does not seem to be functional. There are no PLL errors flashing. Anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?
?
Brandon Vetter
N7IRG
?
?
|
?
?
Brandon Vetter
Office 208-714-4651
Cell 208-625-0892
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Chris Boone via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 6:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] TKR-851 power issue
?
Did you measure the voltage at the PA transistor? I'd look at that first. Also measure the exciter output and see what it's doing. If I recall correctly, the repeater uses a relay to switch in and out a dropping resistor for backup DC operation.
I've seen that really fail or the circuit land open up. I had a TKR 750 that acted the same way but it had been underwater for 7 weeks after tropical storm Harvey! It worked for about 10 minutes until the microprocessor went crazy.
?
On Wed, Nov 2, 2022, 7:50 AM Brandon Vetter <Brandon@...> wrote:
Hi Group,
????????????? I have a TKR-851 that I thought had bad finals. It had about 2 watts output. Installed a new transmitter board with new driver and final transistors and now I get
3 Watts output. If I drop it to low power, I get less than 1 watt. The power in the software is turned up. The power adjustment pot does not seem to be functional. There are no PLL errors flashing. Anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?
?
Brandon Vetter
N7IRG
?
?
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Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
I may have missed something but have you tried this ?
Hook a transceiver to the antenna and see what kind of range you are getting.? If as expected, hook the repeater receiver input directly to the antenna and see if you are getting about the same from a distant station.
Have you tried cutting the transmitter off and on while receiving a signal to check for desense ?
When you injected the signal did you up it a db or two to compensate for the loss in the duplexer ?
Ralph ku4pt
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 08:19:18 AM EDT, Jared Smudde <computerwhiz02@...> wrote:
So last night, I measured the MTR at 0.4uV at the receiver port and 0.5uV at the duplexer antenna port.
I injected a signal into the receiver port of the MTR that had just barely had no noise and when I injected it through the duplexer into the repeater, there was noise present. It wasn't heavy noise but it still had noise on the signal.
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Re: Got a trimble thunderbolt E need more info.
Thanks Cliff, will order one as soon as I have the trimbler?working.
Still searching for a suitable?24 volt power supply as my trimble has the internal voltage controller?that takes care of the?+5?+12 and -12 volts signal. Still have not connected it yet as I also search for the mini connector type that is in front of the device. I will try to inject 24 volts from my test power supply first. surely this weekend.
Tks for the info again
Pierre
VE2PF
Le?ven. 28 oct. 2022 à?12:11, k1iff < k1iff@...> a écrit?: I would also recommend getting one of .? Also comes in kit form for a bit less.?
Gives you four filtered and amplified outputs.? I use all four - two for my NXDN repeaters and two for the service monitors.
73 Cliff, k1iff
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Connect the repeater to a power supply that can tell you how much current is being drawn. Determine if it’s low or in the expected range.?
If low, troubleshoot the DC power circuitry. If it’s as expected, troubleshoot the RF path/cabling circuitry.? tnx Mike / K5JR? Alpharetta GA
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On Nov 2, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Brandon Vetter <Brandon@...> wrote: ?
Hi Group,
????????????? I have a TKR-851 that I thought had bad finals. It had about 2 watts output. Installed a new transmitter board with new driver and final transistors and now I get 3 Watts output. If I drop it to low power, I get less than
1 watt. The power in the software is turned up. The power adjustment pot does not seem to be functional. There are no PLL errors flashing. Anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?
?
Brandon Vetter
N7IRG
?
?
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Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
Jared,
I think your SM allows you to read dBm directly.? Please consider
using that measurement unit instead of uV, because it requires
less conversions and makes more sense in the end.
Taking your two measurements of 0.4uV and 0.5uV the equivalent dBm
for each is -115dBm and -113dBm respectively - or a difference of
2dB.? You stated your duplexers IL is 1.67dB - I consider that
pretty darn close.
There is no free lunch.? A duplexer allows you to use one antenna
in a duplex system - - at the expense of signal loss.?
In my book - .4uV (-115dBm) bench sensitivity is pretty deaf - but
you don't say what you're referencing at that level.? Is that the
level where you achieve 12dB SINAD?? 20dB of quieting?? The
cracklies are totally gone??
Kevin
On 11/2/2022 8:19 AM, Jared Smudde wrote:
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So last night, I measured the MTR at 0.4uV at the receiver port
and 0.5uV at the duplexer antenna port.
I injected a signal into the receiver port of the MTR that had
just barely had no noise and when I injected it through the
duplexer into the repeater, there was noise present. It wasn't
heavy noise but it still had noise on the signal.
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Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
Yes, the TX side was terminated into a dummy load, I forgot to mention that.
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Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
Hopefully he did the test below with the TX disabled. If not, they don't tell us much.
Mike
WM4B
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On November 2, 2022 at 8:36 AM John <jhaserick84@...> wrote:
Hello Jared,
I have not been following these threads very carefully, but the thought occurred to me wondering if your transmitter might have spurs when connected to the duplexer? It would be easy enough to check with a spectrum analyzer connected via a lossy T between the TX and duplexer, (if not already checked.)? I had just finished working on a Spectrum repeater that did have spurs close to the TX frequency, corrected by retuning each stage while watching the spur level drop until they disappeared.
John W1GPO
On 11/02/2022 8:19 AM Jared Smudde <computerwhiz02@...> wrote:
So last night, I measured the MTR at 0.4uV at the receiver port and 0.5uV at the duplexer antenna port.
I injected a signal into the receiver port of the MTR that had just barely had no noise and when I injected it through the duplexer into the repeater, there was noise present. It wasn't heavy noise but it still had noise on the signal.
?
?
|
Did you measure the voltage at the PA transistor? I'd look at that first. Also measure the exciter output and see what it's doing. If I recall correctly, the repeater uses a relay to switch in and out a dropping resistor for backup DC operation. I've seen that really fail or the circuit land open up. I had a TKR 750 that acted the same way but it had been underwater for 7 weeks after tropical storm Harvey! It worked for about 10 minutes until the microprocessor went crazy.
Chris WB5ITT?
On Wed, Nov 2, 2022, 7:50 AM Brandon Vetter < Brandon@...> wrote:
Hi Group,
????????????? I have a TKR-851 that I thought had bad finals. It had about 2 watts output. Installed a new transmitter board with new driver and final transistors and now I get 3 Watts output. If I drop it to low power, I get less than
1 watt. The power in the software is turned up. The power adjustment pot does not seem to be functional. There are no PLL errors flashing. Anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?
?
Brandon Vetter
N7IRG
?
?
|
Hi Group,
????????????? I have a TKR-851 that I thought had bad finals. It had about 2 watts output. Installed a new transmitter board with new driver and final transistors and now I get 3 Watts output. If I drop it to low power, I get less than
1 watt. The power in the software is turned up. The power adjustment pot does not seem to be functional. There are no PLL errors flashing. Anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?
?
Brandon Vetter
N7IRG
?
?
|
Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
Hello Jared,
I have not been following these threads very carefully, but the thought occurred to me wondering if your transmitter might have spurs when connected to the duplexer? It would be easy enough to check with a spectrum analyzer connected via a lossy T between the TX and duplexer, (if not already checked.)? I had just finished working on a Spectrum repeater that did have spurs close to the TX frequency, corrected by retuning each stage while watching the spur level drop until they disappeared.
John W1GPO
On 11/02/2022 8:19 AM Jared Smudde <computerwhiz02@...> wrote:
So last night, I measured the MTR at 0.4uV at the receiver port and 0.5uV at the duplexer antenna port.
I injected a signal into the receiver port of the MTR that had just barely had no noise and when I injected it through the duplexer into the repeater, there was noise present. It wasn't heavy noise but it still had noise on the signal.
|
Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance
So last night, I measured the MTR at 0.4uV at the receiver port and 0.5uV at the duplexer antenna port.
I injected a signal into the receiver port of the MTR that had just barely had no noise and when I injected it through the duplexer into the repeater, there was noise present. It wasn't heavy noise but it still had noise on the signal.
|
Re: Somewhat OT... imaging a hard drive...
Hi guys,
Taxing the brain, With XP, one had to mod the registry to go back to the bios for
the disk driver if the motherboard IDE or SATA driver changes. Then at first boot
on the new hardware, it will install the appropriate hard disk driver and video drivers.
Can anybody remember the details?
Alan VK2ZIW
On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 01:49:04 -0700, M M wrote
> I asked the seller
which version of Ghost he was providing as I was looking for 7 or later.
> He replied "I think this is version 3 or older, Not what you are looking
for."
>
> But thanks for the suggestion.?? It
turns out that older versions of Hiren had Ghost.
>
>
> Three of the suggestions made here were for a bootable RescueZilla, a
bootable CloneZilla and a bootable GParted.
>
> It looks like one
of those will do what I need.
>
>
Mike
---------------------------------------------------
Alan VK2ZIW
Before the Big Bang, God, Sela.
OpenWebMail 2.53, nothing in the cloud.
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Re: Somewhat OT... imaging a hard drive...
I asked the seller which version of Ghost he was providing as I was looking for 7 or later. He replied "I think this is version 3 or older, Not what you are looking for."
But thanks for the suggestion.?? It turns out that older versions of Hiren had Ghost.
Three of the suggestions made here were for a bootable RescueZilla, a bootable CloneZilla and a bootable GParted.
It looks like one of those will do what I need.
Mike
|
Re: Connecting Yaesu DR2X Repeater to Raspberry Pi/Allstar?
Thanks Steve. ? ? ? 73, Chris ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of N8AR
Sent: November 1, 2022 9:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Connecting Yaesu DR2X Repeater to Raspberry Pi/Allstar?? Here is a link to a program called PiTone which can be used to create a CTCSS tone.? PiTone runs on a Raspberry Pi (can be the same one that is running Allstar).? It uses a D/A converter connected to the I2C bus to create a stepped sinewave which is easy to filter to a "pure" sinwave.
We have used it on our local repeaters (DR-1X and Micor) for more than 4 years.
Steve - N8AR
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Kevin Custer
Jared Smudde
Brandon Vetter
Pierre Martel
Mike Besemer - WM4B
Chris Boone WB5ITT