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Date

Re: Somewhat OT... imaging a hard drive...

 

This was replying to Alan (or who cares) because I can't figure out what switch needs to be thrown?
to make the quote feature do what I want.? If only there was a referrence and a spell checker...

"Taxing the brain, With XP, one had to mod the registry to go back to the bios for
the disk driver if the motherboard IDE or SATA driver changes. Then at first boot
on the new hardware, it will install the appropriate hard disk driver and video drivers.
Can anybody remember the details?
Alan VK2ZIW"

On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 12:10 PM, jb wrote:
Unfortunately, detailed explanations of how this was done have been purged from forums and groups
along with any valid license keys because usoft sifts through the internet to kill any mention.

If you have an activated installation with updates and software you want to keep, you can image that and
have a recovery back to where you won't have to screw around with much to get back to normal if all that
crashed was a hard drive and the machine is the same.

Many XP OEMs had a hidden recovery partion that could be activated either by a recovery boot disk or from
running a utility if you could boot up.? This would give you a fresh "out of the box" installation all pre-activated
(but requiring updates).? Using wrong versions of imaging software or incorrectly is likely to wipe out this
feature leaving you without a valid license.?

What you describe is the "bare-metal" solution, that recovers an image that is custom built, mostly virgin in its
registry, and has a variety of drivers that will install minimally, at the first run.? This gives you a mostly clean install,
and will only work if the activation conditions are met (part of the build).? If activation fails, you can trick it to give
you a grace period, but after that you can't get things to work and can't fix it without ratting yourself out to usoft.?
I don't know if it works anymore with XP since it's no longer supported.

DOS, win9x and 2000 don't require activation.? Just have a good key.? Never put your good key on the internet
or it will go dead.


Re: Somewhat OT... imaging a hard drive...

 

Unfortunately, detailed explanations of how this was done have been purged from forums and groups
along with any valid license keys because usoft sifts through the internet to kill any mention.

If you have an activated installation with updates and software you want to keep, you can image that and
have a recovery back to where you won't have to screw around with much to get back to normal if all that
crashed was a hard drive and the machine is the same.

Many XP OEMs had a hidden recovery partion that could be activated either by a recovery boot disk or from
running a utility if you could boot up.? This would give you a fresh "out of the box" installation all pre-activated
(but requiring updates).? Using wrong versions of imaging software or incorrectly is likely to wipe out this
feature leaving you without a valid license.?

What you describe is the "bare-metal" solution, that recovers an image that is custom built, mostly virgin in its
registry, and has a variety of drivers that will install minimally, at the first run.? This gives you a mostly clean install,
and will only work if the activation conditions are met (part of the build).? If activation fails, you can trick it to give
you a grace period, but after that you can't get things to work and can't fix it without ratting yourself out to usoft.?
I don't know if it works anymore with XP since it's no longer supported.

DOS, win9x and 2000 don't require activation.? Just have a good key.? Never put your good key on the internet
or it will go dead.


Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

It certainly is worth getting the receiver back to where it belongs. I’m not going to take the time and drive to the site and install everything just for it to continue to be deaf and run like garbage.

The previous owner of the service monitor said the level was accurate to the dial but was 1khz low. But I still use my spectrum analyzer and make sure it’s on frequency and the level is correct. I know it’s a Rigol but it’s better than anything.

I don’t know if the receiver is on frequency, I guess I should figure out how to do that.


Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

Are we sure the receiver (and/or the service monitor) is on-frequency?

Mike
WM4B

On November 2, 2022 at 12:47 PM "Bob Dengler via groups.io" <no6b@...> wrote:


At 11/2/2022 09:35 AM, you wrote:
>Spec for the MTR2000 VHF is 0.35 uv or -116 dbm at 12db SINAD, so his receiver is pretty close.

1 dB less than that is typically what I get out of a MASTR II or MVP, which has the same spec. However, at least here in SoCal that's pretty much equal to the noise floor on 2 meters. Depending on the site I may or may not try adding a preamp; in most cases no because the actual S/N improvement is insignificant. However at 0.4 uV that's 2 dB worse, which in most cases would clearly be throwing away S/N. So I wouldn't be happy with 0.4 uV either - worth getting that 1 dB or (hopefully) more back.

Bob NO6B





Re: Windows 7 config

 

I have to agree with Chris on this.? Running raw discriminator audio directly into the modulator is going to cause problems.? You need "something" ahead of the modulator to control the maximum deviation.? This is one of the reasons I disagree with the idea of coming out of the discriminator, going directly into the modulator and setting the system for 5 kHz in and 5 kHz out.

Years ago when I was on the TASMA technical committee one of the most frustrating problems I regularly faced was with people who would do this.? In a lot of cases the squelch tail was measured going out to 20 or more kHz of deviation, while popcorn and noise from signals that were only partially quieting went out to almost the same.? They don't understand.? It's just bad practice.

Burt, K6OQK


On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 10:29 AM, Chris Boone wrote:
I strongly disagree Scott... That's a recipe for disaster. Feeding wide band unsquelched noise to a modulator will cause the transmitter to over deviate. Remember the squelch noise out of a discriminator is half the bandwidth of the IF filter which means you have audio at 7.5 khz + coming out of the receiver.. Anytime I run flat audio, I always put a clipper/limiter circuit in line to prevent over deviation, and also to limit the audio bandwidth to 3 kilohertz maximum. Under FCC part 97 rules we are required to make sure that we use good engineering practices. Running raw discriminator audio straight into a transmitter modulator without any processing violates that rule. I've done that in microwave systems but that's a special case and you have the bandwidth to do it. In the crowded VHF/UHF bands, it's totally ludicrous to do so
?
Chris
WB5ITT?


Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

At 11/2/2022 09:35 AM, you wrote:
Spec for the MTR2000 VHF is 0.35 uv or -116 dbm at 12db SINAD, so his receiver is pretty close.
1 dB less than that is typically what I get out of a MASTR II or MVP, which has the same spec. However, at least here in SoCal that's pretty much equal to the noise floor on 2 meters. Depending on the site I may or may not try adding a preamp; in most cases no because the actual S/N improvement is insignificant. However at 0.4 uV that's 2 dB worse, which in most cases would clearly be throwing away S/N. So I wouldn't be happy with 0.4 uV either - worth getting that 1 dB or (hopefully) more back.

Bob NO6B


Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

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Spec for the MTR2000 VHF is 0.35 uv or -116 dbm at 12db SINAD, so his receiver?is pretty close.

Brian
n1bs

On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 12:14 PM Kevin Custer <kuggie@...> wrote:
Okay - -

Yea - -115dBm for 12 dB SINAD is pretty numb. Many receivers are much
better at -120 (something) or so for 12dB SINAD.




On 11/2/2022 11:30 AM, Jared Smudde wrote:
> The MTR is reading 0.4uV (115 dBm) at 12DB SINAD. I’ve aligned the
> repeater 3 times now and even tried directly to the port on the
> receiver module. I must be doing something wrong, my UHF MTRs are much
> more sensitive.
>
> I need to take a VHF MaxTrac I have and test it’s 12DB SINAD by itself
> and then through the duplexer and see how it goes. I’m sure I’m
> chasing a ghost and really have a receiver issue.







--
Amateur call: n1bs
Brian Swann


Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

Okay - -

Yea - -115dBm for 12 dB SINAD is pretty numb. Many receivers are much better at -120 (something) or so for 12dB SINAD.

On 11/2/2022 11:30 AM, Jared Smudde wrote:
The MTR is reading 0.4uV (115 dBm) at 12DB SINAD. I’ve aligned the repeater 3 times now and even tried directly to the port on the receiver module. I must be doing something wrong, my UHF MTRs are much more sensitive.

I need to take a VHF MaxTrac I have and test it’s 12DB SINAD by itself and then through the duplexer and see how it goes. I’m sure I’m chasing a ghost and really have a receiver issue.


Re: Somewhat OT... imaging a hard drive...

 

?

IDE drive device ID/order is determined by the controller (typically only one is present).

SATA drive device ID/order is determined by which SATA port/cable a drive is connected to.

The BIOS has no drivers.? It is coded to recognize sets of standard interfaces/devices and access them accordingly.

Most/many BIOS do provide a Boot Order selection - by device type/port. Perhaps this is what you're referring to?

Upon boot the BIOS will detect/instantiate known devices and determine which if any device/media contains boot information and try to follow the boot order selected above.

Typically the first device is IDE 0 or SATA 0.

'most' BIOS provides a visible or hidden key-press option to select which device to boot from different from the default Boot Order above.? This allows you to select a CD/DVD for raw boot/OS installation, a bootable USB 'stick' - for OS or in this context a bootable GParted/Clonezilla stick running Linux, or other types of utility media that would likely be running WinPE to jump start an application or OS install process.

Once an OS kicks off it determines if it has a default/basic driver to access a device, or fail out if the boot 'build' doesn't know how to talk to something. Another level of discussion about device detection and drivers, etc.? Life was almost simpler way-back in DOS and DOS-based Windows days - then came a progression of industry groups to sort and organize all this into something expandable to the future today.? (interesting journey through all that, sorta, from the time I worked for a PC diagnostic company and "was there" when such things were evolving. )? ? Next we can talk about "device not found, driver errors, relevant to DOS vs Windows serial devices... Prolific/Prolific clones, FTDI, Motorola's bizarre serial data clocking for older HTs...)

Confused yet?? :O

?

On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 04:16 AM, Alan Beard wrote:

Taxing the brain, With XP, one had to mod the registry to go back to the bios for
the disk driver if the motherboard IDE or SATA driver changes. Then at first boot
on the new hardware, it will install the appropriate hard disk driver and video drivers.


Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

The MTR is reading 0.4uV (115 dBm) at 12DB SINAD. I’ve aligned the repeater 3 times now and even tried directly to the port on the receiver module. I must be doing something wrong, my UHF MTRs are much more sensitive.

I need to take a VHF MaxTrac I have and test it’s 12DB SINAD by itself and then through the duplexer and see how it goes. I’m sure I’m chasing a ghost and really have a receiver issue.


Re: TKR-851 power issue

 

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Can you give me some more details on how to make these measurements?

?

Brandon Vetter

Office 208-714-4651

Cell 208-625-0892

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Chris Boone via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 6:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] TKR-851 power issue

?

Did you measure the voltage at the PA transistor? I'd look at that first. Also measure the exciter output and see what it's doing. If I recall correctly, the repeater uses a relay to switch in and out a dropping resistor for backup DC operation. I've seen that really fail or the circuit land open up. I had a TKR 750 that acted the same way but it had been underwater for 7 weeks after tropical storm Harvey! It worked for about 10 minutes until the microprocessor went crazy.

?

Chris WB5ITT?

?

On Wed, Nov 2, 2022, 7:50 AM Brandon Vetter <Brandon@...> wrote:

Hi Group,

????????????? I have a TKR-851 that I thought had bad finals. It had about 2 watts output. Installed a new transmitter board with new driver and final transistors and now I get 3 Watts output. If I drop it to low power, I get less than 1 watt. The power in the software is turned up. The power adjustment pot does not seem to be functional. There are no PLL errors flashing. Anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?

?

Brandon Vetter

N7IRG

?

?


Re: TKR-851 power issue

 

开云体育

?

?

Brandon Vetter

Office 208-714-4651

Cell 208-625-0892

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Chris Boone via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 6:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] TKR-851 power issue

?

Did you measure the voltage at the PA transistor? I'd look at that first. Also measure the exciter output and see what it's doing. If I recall correctly, the repeater uses a relay to switch in and out a dropping resistor for backup DC operation. I've seen that really fail or the circuit land open up. I had a TKR 750 that acted the same way but it had been underwater for 7 weeks after tropical storm Harvey! It worked for about 10 minutes until the microprocessor went crazy.

?

Chris WB5ITT?

?

On Wed, Nov 2, 2022, 7:50 AM Brandon Vetter <Brandon@...> wrote:

Hi Group,

????????????? I have a TKR-851 that I thought had bad finals. It had about 2 watts output. Installed a new transmitter board with new driver and final transistors and now I get 3 Watts output. If I drop it to low power, I get less than 1 watt. The power in the software is turned up. The power adjustment pot does not seem to be functional. There are no PLL errors flashing. Anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?

?

Brandon Vetter

N7IRG

?

?


Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

I may have missed something but have you tried this ?

Hook a transceiver to the antenna and see what kind of range you are getting.? If as expected, hook the repeater receiver input directly to the antenna and see if you are getting about the same from a distant station.

Have you tried cutting the transmitter off and on while receiving a signal to check for desense ?

When you injected the signal did you up it a db or two to compensate for the loss in the duplexer ?


Ralph ku4pt



On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 08:19:18 AM EDT, Jared Smudde <computerwhiz02@...> wrote:


So last night, I measured the MTR at 0.4uV at the receiver port and 0.5uV at the duplexer antenna port.

I injected a signal into the receiver port of the MTR that had just barely had no noise and when I injected it through the duplexer into the repeater, there was noise present. It wasn't heavy noise but it still had noise on the signal.


Re: Got a trimble thunderbolt E need more info.

 

Thanks Cliff, will order one as soon as I have the trimbler?working.

Still searching for a suitable?24 volt power supply as my trimble has the internal voltage controller?that takes care of the?+5?+12 and -12 volts signal. Still have not connected it yet as I also search for the mini connector type that is in front of the device. I will try to inject 24 volts from my test power supply first. surely this weekend.

Tks for the info again

Pierre
VE2PF

Le?ven. 28 oct. 2022 à?12:11, k1iff <k1iff@...> a écrit?:
I would also recommend getting one of .? Also comes in kit form for a bit less.?

Gives you four filtered and amplified outputs.? I use all four - two for my NXDN repeaters and two for the service monitors.

73 Cliff, k1iff


Re: TKR-851 power issue

 

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Connect the repeater to a power supply that can tell you how much current is being drawn. Determine if it’s low or in the expected range.?

If low, troubleshoot the DC power circuitry. If it’s as expected, troubleshoot the RF path/cabling circuitry.?

tnx
Mike / K5JR?
Alpharetta GA

On Nov 2, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Brandon Vetter <Brandon@...> wrote:

?

Hi Group,

????????????? I have a TKR-851 that I thought had bad finals. It had about 2 watts output. Installed a new transmitter board with new driver and final transistors and now I get 3 Watts output. If I drop it to low power, I get less than 1 watt. The power in the software is turned up. The power adjustment pot does not seem to be functional. There are no PLL errors flashing. Anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?

?

Brandon Vetter

N7IRG

?

?


Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

开云体育

Jared,

I think your SM allows you to read dBm directly.? Please consider using that measurement unit instead of uV, because it requires less conversions and makes more sense in the end.

Taking your two measurements of 0.4uV and 0.5uV the equivalent dBm for each is -115dBm and -113dBm respectively - or a difference of 2dB.? You stated your duplexers IL is 1.67dB - I consider that pretty darn close.

There is no free lunch.? A duplexer allows you to use one antenna in a duplex system - - at the expense of signal loss.?

In my book - .4uV (-115dBm) bench sensitivity is pretty deaf - but you don't say what you're referencing at that level.? Is that the level where you achieve 12dB SINAD?? 20dB of quieting?? The cracklies are totally gone??

Kevin

On 11/2/2022 8:19 AM, Jared Smudde wrote:

So last night, I measured the MTR at 0.4uV at the receiver port and 0.5uV at the duplexer antenna port.

I injected a signal into the receiver port of the MTR that had just barely had no noise and when I injected it through the duplexer into the repeater, there was noise present. It wasn't heavy noise but it still had noise on the signal.


Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

Yes, the TX side was terminated into a dummy load, I forgot to mention that.


Re: VHF MTR2000 Poor Receive Performance

 

Hopefully he did the test below with the TX disabled. If not, they don't tell us much.

Mike
WM4B

On November 2, 2022 at 8:36 AM John <jhaserick84@...> wrote:

Hello Jared,
I have not been following these threads very carefully, but the thought occurred to me wondering if your transmitter might have spurs when connected to the duplexer? It would be easy enough to check with a spectrum analyzer connected via a lossy T between the TX and duplexer, (if not already checked.)? I had just finished working on a Spectrum repeater that did have spurs close to the TX frequency, corrected by retuning each stage while watching the spur level drop until they disappeared.

John W1GPO
On 11/02/2022 8:19 AM Jared Smudde <computerwhiz02@...> wrote:


So last night, I measured the MTR at 0.4uV at the receiver port and 0.5uV at the duplexer antenna port.

I injected a signal into the receiver port of the MTR that had just barely had no noise and when I injected it through the duplexer into the repeater, there was noise present. It wasn't heavy noise but it still had noise on the signal.

?

?


Re: TKR-851 power issue

 

Did you measure the voltage at the PA transistor? I'd look at that first. Also measure the exciter output and see what it's doing. If I recall correctly, the repeater uses a relay to switch in and out a dropping resistor for backup DC operation. I've seen that really fail or the circuit land open up. I had a TKR 750 that acted the same way but it had been underwater for 7 weeks after tropical storm Harvey! It worked for about 10 minutes until the microprocessor went crazy.

Chris WB5ITT?

On Wed, Nov 2, 2022, 7:50 AM Brandon Vetter <Brandon@...> wrote:

Hi Group,

????????????? I have a TKR-851 that I thought had bad finals. It had about 2 watts output. Installed a new transmitter board with new driver and final transistors and now I get 3 Watts output. If I drop it to low power, I get less than 1 watt. The power in the software is turned up. The power adjustment pot does not seem to be functional. There are no PLL errors flashing. Anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?

?

Brandon Vetter

N7IRG

?

?


TKR-851 power issue

 

开云体育

Hi Group,

????????????? I have a TKR-851 that I thought had bad finals. It had about 2 watts output. Installed a new transmitter board with new driver and final transistors and now I get 3 Watts output. If I drop it to low power, I get less than 1 watt. The power in the software is turned up. The power adjustment pot does not seem to be functional. There are no PLL errors flashing. Anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?

?

Brandon Vetter

N7IRG

?

?