I missed my coffee today sorry. I see now you cleaned them already!?
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 9:24 AM, Sam Skolfield via < kj6qfs@...> wrote: Hey Tom! Yep, sounds like the TX VCO needs a scrub. Definitely hit both while you’re at it. If the problem persists, then we can start attacking the actual circuitry of the TX VCO, or I can send you one.? On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 9:21 AM, kj6qfs@... < kj6qfs@...> wrote: Yep, like I said. They both need precautionary cleaning. Will save you headache down the line trust me.? On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 7:51 AM, n3ssl via < n3ssl@...> wrote: Hi,
Take the VCO units apart they? like Ge Mastr Series develop whiskers.?
I experienced this on a 900 station last year.? was doing all sorts of strange things.?
?I took detoxit spray and a compressed air and paper towels and cleaned. the VCO units up and working ever since.?
n3ssl?
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Hey Tom! Yep, sounds like the TX VCO needs a scrub. Definitely hit both while you’re at it. If the problem persists, then we can start attacking the actual circuitry of the TX VCO, or I can send you one.?
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 9:21 AM, kj6qfs@... < kj6qfs@...> wrote: Yep, like I said. They both need precautionary cleaning. Will save you headache down the line trust me.? On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 7:51 AM, n3ssl via < n3ssl@...> wrote: Hi,
Take the VCO units apart they? like Ge Mastr Series develop whiskers.?
I experienced this on a 900 station last year.? was doing all sorts of strange things.?
?I took detoxit spray and a compressed air and paper towels and cleaned. the VCO units up and working ever since.?
n3ssl?
|
Yep, like I said. They both need precautionary cleaning. Will save you headache down the line trust me.?
On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 7:51 AM, n3ssl via < n3ssl@...> wrote: Hi,
Take the VCO units apart they? like Ge Mastr Series develop whiskers.?
I experienced this on a 900 station last year.? was doing all sorts of strange things.?
?I took detoxit spray and a compressed air and paper towels and cleaned. the VCO units up and working ever since.?
n3ssl?
|
Totally agree on the spurious transmitters In the 1980’s and 90’s local hams had to DF at least 3 Marti’s that started spurring and getting into local 2M ham repeaters.? One was about 40 miles away and another would start out each morning when it was turned on and during the course of the day the spur would drift so that it moved from repeater to repeater across the band.? Fortunately in each case we got quick cooperation from the broadcast station to get it turned off until it could be repaired once the DF effort located the source. ? John kf0m ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of K8TB Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 6:32 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [repeater-builder] Marti ? I have maintained dozens of them over the years. The transmitters are really junk, spur up fast. The receivers have a horrible front end. For broadcasting, 40 years ago I found about 20 GE Master pro receivers that were wide band (15 KHz deviation). I made an unbalanced to balanced line adapter, ran the discriminator audio through a Micor squelch IC, a very small de-emphasis circuit, and had a superior receiver to anything Marti ever made. They look nice. They do have clean audio, but they are also maintenance nightmares. I just dropped of some 8 pieces of Marti gear to a local ham radio second hand shop. The hams use the chassis's for projects. One guy took a RPT-2 to hid a Baefeng with a gel cell and an identifier inside for a "Fox-Box". Best use for the chassis yet! On 2/15/2021 7:01 PM, Skyler Fennell wrote: I have access to a few Marti RPU transmitters. Has anyone here had luck using them as link radios? They have beautiful audio, but not sure if they are too wide for ham links.
?
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Hi,
Take the VCO units apart they? like Ge Mastr Series develop whiskers.?
I experienced this on a 900 station last year.? was doing all sorts of strange things.?
?I took detoxit spray and a compressed air and paper towels and cleaned. the VCO units up and working ever since.?
n3ssl?
|
Hi Sam!
When this trouble started the first thing I did was clean out the VCO's.
I Just swapped the TX & RX VCO's. The RX locked immediatly with the TX VCO in it, just had to peak it a little to get it to 38uA. The TX locked after a slight adjustment of the RX VCO in its chain, the Meter was pinned max in position 5, backed it down and it locked right in. So far so good...
So I swapped them back, and again the RX locked immediatly with the RX VCO back in the correct position, just had to peak it up since I had adjusted it when it was on the TX side. The TX locked when I adjusted the TX VCO back in its place, again meter 5 was pinned so backed it down to 38uA and all seemed well. Keyed it up, made full power, sounded good.
5 Minutes later, the current on the TX VCO dropped to 10uA and it was unlocked again. This is what it seems to do, after a long preiod powered down it will come on and work for about 5 minutes before losing TX lock.
I'm gong to assume the VCO is fine, but I didnt leave the VCO's swapped very long. Maybe I should do that next after it is powered down for a while, see if the TX VCO stays locked in the RX side. No harm in leaving that way a little while I assume?
And I probably need to change that one cap on the 5V regulator on the interconenct board for good measure...
Thanks! Tom W9SRV
On Monday, February 15, 2021, 09:43:05 PM CST, Sam Skolfield <kj6qfs@...> wrote:
Whoops, hit send too soon. Try swapping the VCOs just to see if TX will stay locked. Obviously not a permanent solution, they are different parts. But if it remains locked when you swap, then we can turn our attention towards the TX VCO.?
PS, I forgot. Did you clean the VCOs yet? Another common problem: they get dendrites and junk in there. ?Disassemble the cavity part (screws on the side) and clean, alcohol and a swab will get down there in that tube.?
On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 6:56 PM, kj6qfs@... < kj6qfs@...> wrote: Try swapping the VCOs?? On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 5:43 PM, TGundo 2003 via < tgundo2003@...> wrote:
Thanks for the link Bob!
Well- the pins were all very clean, nothing metered bad. I cleaned them anyway.
Took a closer look at the uniboard, found I put C368 in backward. It's in a group of three, obviously fudged it up not paying close attention to the + marking on the board.
I got that flipped back, now the unit boots right up.
At first, it all came alive, both VCO's working wonderfully. 5 minutes later I lost the TX VCO again, which is where I was when this all started.
Back to the drawing board, I guess, perhaps there really is a problem with that VCO after all. When it boots up if I am listening on another radio I get some screeches and beeps coming thru while it boots. The RX is working great.?
Tom W9SRV
On Monday, February 15, 2021, 10:50:49 AM CST, Bob M. < wa1mik@...> wrote:
Go (and this is the hard part) READ this article:
About half way down there's a section called "Resolutions:" where it mentions some LEDs are lit dimly. Note the item dated 20-Jun-08 and the photo.
Remove each of the filter/pin assemblies (two Torx screws) and measure each pin to the connector ground. You should get over 20 megohms on every pin. Scrape the crud off the ones that don't until they do. Check and clean both sides. Do each filter/pin assembly separately and remember how they go back in as there is a top and bottom, left and right. Use a permanent marker to make a mark in one corner of both the filter/pin assembly and the chassis.
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Re: A poll for preference. Analog or digital?
As technologies progress, variety widens under our very wide tent of amateur radio. The "Original Digital" is, of course, CW. It's very '1' or '0' by nature & wins the range war. That said, for voice transmission, analog forever.
Digital systems offer many fancy potentials. The ease of linking, for instance, is attractive to most. The multiple timeslots and talk groups make for an easy method of content selection and control. The audio? As compared with legacy narrowband FM, 16K0/5KHz deviation, I personally find it inferior. The 'rough edges' the codec creates to the human voice make it fatiguing to the listener. The stripping of some personal voice characteristics isn't appealing either.
Digital has serious flaws for both my personal taste and my job as a systems maintainer. You can't hear phase distortion, you can't hear mixes to identify them, or other sources of interference. The system performance is simply degraded inexplicably. This puts you at a serious disadvantage. Ultimately it will require more work investigating these problems as they occur.?
Today we take repeaters and remote base systems for granted. We take linking them for granted too. That wasn't always so, such things, especially linking more than say one or two, was very exotic. It also took a great deal of work. Some of us, stubbornly, carry on the traditional method of RF interlinks. Regardless of system size, single repeater or a large network, analog systems all have a "personality" to them. Sounds you grow to know. You can tell the hardware's health by them. Other facets might be the beeps they make, announcements, a particular chirp of a squelch in a link receiver, hearing the audio latches thump the DC bias when they open or close, what-have-you. Perhaps you have a hissy link, a funny DVR, a (God forbid!) audio delay or "bonk box" ~ it could be anything. A friend of mine literally programmed his controller to send a whole paragraph's worth in CW to describe his remote base system! Guess what? A digital system has none of this. It's like a circuit that simply 'exists' nebulously with oddly warbly de-constructed / re-constructed voices emanating from it at random.?
Digital suits the "plug and play" culture we live in today. It suits the plastic appliance operation mentality. (Realize I'm not saying *all* digital operators fit this category) It doesn't inspire the same wonderment nor require the system operator to really grasp RF at all. I will grant that P25 sounds the best of them, and that NXDN Ultra-Narrow is at parity in the 'range war' with Legacy 16K0 FM. Perhaps even edging it out at times. I'll also grant that digital networks are quite active at this time. Personally, I consider most digital to be largely a fad.
Analog is by no means perfect, but is the original and natural condition. After all, we exist in an analog world, and even these digital signals exist in that analog world being transmitted across an analog medium. Digital Divides, Analog Accretes. Digital has many flavors to it, many competing incompatible formats. It fractures people from one another, whether digital vs. analog or digital flavor x vs. digital flavor y. I can literally take an analog FM radio made in the 1960s (you pick the make), and talk to a radio that literally JUST came new off the shelf 50-60 years later. That includes a young ham's $20 Baofeng that despite our groaning at his radio, might be his gateway to discovering radio's magic. That's meaningful. Not just as a matter of nostalgia for that 1960s rig, but the fact that compatibility has remained. 11K0 is substandard, but I'll even take it over typical digital. 16K0 FM is really the sweet spot. It works exceptionally well, hence its endurance across the decades. The shift to narrower bandwidths & emphasis of digital outside the amateur radio sphere is purely money driven. More channels can be licensed & sold, more equipment can be sold by manufacturers, and hopefully their users can communicate. I have little doubt the manufacturers were salivating at the narrowband mandate coming into effect & all those decades old base stations & subscriber fleets requiring replacement.
Having said all that, this is Amateur Radio. We are experimenters, we have been & should continue to be innovators. Digital Voice therefore has its place, just a SSB came to the scene long ago, AM gave way to FM above 50MHz, and Wideband (30K0) FM gave way to Legacy Narrow FM (16K0). We should use caution in saying 'x' is better than 'y' and instead appreciate the facets of each. Personal opinions, of course. I've stated my preference for analog & given practical reasons why. I like something with personality and pleasant listening. A well designed analog system has no excuse not to sound great. I use digital flavors also. I also recognize the value digital systems provide in the commercial & government sectors whose missions/nature differ from ours.
AllStar is perhaps the best "blending" commonly available of the two worlds IP & analog. It provides real enhancement of traditional analog systems' capabilities. Being the most configurable, it wins out over the other amateur-made methods IMHO. Other ways exist with Cisco routers and E&M cards, JPS NXUs, etc. They can provide impressive results too. One gripe against AllStar is it's limited to 8K sampled audio unnecessarily, and falls off in practice ~3400Hz. That really needs to change. Make it 16K so it's transparent to optimized FM systems. Then you'd have it 10 for 10.
There *should* be room enough for all of us to enjoy our hobby in the flavor we choose without harm to others. We have that freedom. What we shouldn't do is attack one another over these preferential differences.
73, Matt W6XC The GRONK "Hissy Links Included" Radio Network
On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 8:25 PM Bob Dengler < no6b@...> wrote: At 2/15/2021 01:49 PM, you wrote:
>wide band analog. thank you
>AllStar for the linking, sounds like everybody is a local?
>and I can keep using my 1990 Midland STII !
"Wide band"?? To me WBFM is 15 kHz deviation (60K0F3E).
Bob NO6B
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Re: A poll for preference. Analog or digital?
At 2/15/2021 01:49 PM, you wrote: wide band analog. thank you
AllStar for the linking, sounds like everybody is a local
and I can keep using my 1990 Midland STII ! "Wide band"? To me WBFM is 15 kHz deviation (60K0F3E). Bob NO6B
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Whoops, hit send too soon. Try swapping the VCOs just to see if TX will stay locked. Obviously not a permanent solution, they are different parts. But if it remains locked when you swap, then we can turn our attention towards the TX VCO.?
PS, I forgot. Did you clean the VCOs yet? Another common problem: they get dendrites and junk in there. ?Disassemble the cavity part (screws on the side) and clean, alcohol and a swab will get down there in that tube.?
On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 6:56 PM, kj6qfs@... < kj6qfs@...> wrote: Try swapping the VCOs?? On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 5:43 PM, TGundo 2003 via < tgundo2003@...> wrote:
Thanks for the link Bob!
Well- the pins were all very clean, nothing metered bad. I cleaned them anyway.
Took a closer look at the uniboard, found I put C368 in backward. It's in a group of three, obviously fudged it up not paying close attention to the + marking on the board.
I got that flipped back, now the unit boots right up.
At first, it all came alive, both VCO's working wonderfully. 5 minutes later I lost the TX VCO again, which is where I was when this all started.
Back to the drawing board, I guess, perhaps there really is a problem with that VCO after all. When it boots up if I am listening on another radio I get some screeches and beeps coming thru while it boots. The RX is working great.?
Tom W9SRV
On Monday, February 15, 2021, 10:50:49 AM CST, Bob M. < wa1mik@...> wrote:
Go (and this is the hard part) READ this article:
About half way down there's a section called "Resolutions:" where it mentions some LEDs are lit dimly. Note the item dated 20-Jun-08 and the photo.
Remove each of the filter/pin assemblies (two Torx screws) and measure each pin to the connector ground. You should get over 20 megohms on every pin. Scrape the crud off the ones that don't until they do. Check and clean both sides. Do each filter/pin assembly separately and remember how they go back in as there is a top and bottom, left and right. Use a permanent marker to make a mark in one corner of both the filter/pin assembly and the chassis.
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On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 5:43 PM, TGundo 2003 via < tgundo2003@...> wrote:
Thanks for the link Bob!
Well- the pins were all very clean, nothing metered bad. I cleaned them anyway.
Took a closer look at the uniboard, found I put C368 in backward. It's in a group of three, obviously fudged it up not paying close attention to the + marking on the board.
I got that flipped back, now the unit boots right up.
At first, it all came alive, both VCO's working wonderfully. 5 minutes later I lost the TX VCO again, which is where I was when this all started.
Back to the drawing board, I guess, perhaps there really is a problem with that VCO after all. When it boots up if I am listening on another radio I get some screeches and beeps coming thru while it boots. The RX is working great.?
Tom W9SRV
On Monday, February 15, 2021, 10:50:49 AM CST, Bob M. < wa1mik@...> wrote:
Go (and this is the hard part) READ this article:
About half way down there's a section called "Resolutions:" where it mentions some LEDs are lit dimly. Note the item dated 20-Jun-08 and the photo.
Remove each of the filter/pin assemblies (two Torx screws) and measure each pin to the connector ground. You should get over 20 megohms on every pin. Scrape the crud off the ones that don't until they do. Check and clean both sides. Do each filter/pin assembly separately and remember how they go back in as there is a top and bottom, left and right. Use a permanent marker to make a mark in one corner of both the filter/pin assembly and the chassis.
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Make sure you add a cavity after it. They are not very clean.
On 2/15/2021 6:01 PM, Skyler Fennell
wrote:
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I have access to a few Marti RPU transmitters. Has
anyone here had luck using them as link radios? They have
beautiful audio, but not sure if they are too wide for ham
links.
|
Greetings I ran a cr-10 receiver as a 220 mhz repeater receiver for a few years ?The Marti squelch was not the best so i added a Aftermarket squelch board to it (NHRC) i think and that improved the squelch a lot. Also put a narrower filter in it for ham use. It worked,? Fairly well after all that.. The Transmitter RPT 30 ? Ran pretty well for a few years then started having a few quirks here and there
So yes it can be made to work but as others have said there are better options
Regards Scott K9sln
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On Feb 15, 2021, at 8:09 PM, Jeff DePolo WN3A <jd0@...> wrote:
? - I have access to a few Marti RPU transmitters. Has anyone here had luck using them as link radios? They have beautiful audio, but not sure if they are too wide for ham links.
? Marti's were available with a variety of IF and AF bandwidths, from "very narrow" for P-channel telemetry to "wideband" that were used on 100 kHz channels on uhf, to composite (50 kHz deviation), and everything in between.? In the US, the composite ones were only available for 950 MHz, but in other countries with different STL bands, they were available in other ranges (I've seen 200 MHz and 300 MHz for example).? Preemphasis of 50 or 75 microseconds on the program audio varieties.? Single-ended noise reduction was an option.? Transformer inputs and outputs were options on some models.? There were many varieties and combinations, many of which, from the front panel, may look identical.? Every variety, from the earliest units to the most-recent that were reincarnated by BE (Broadcast Electronics) had different issues, ranging from slightly annoying to debilitating.? Personally, I wouldn't spend any time or money putting one on the air, there are much better choices out there with less hassle and potential aggravation, but that's just me. ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? --- Jeff WN3A ?
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Thanks for the link Bob!
Well- the pins were all very clean, nothing metered bad. I cleaned them anyway.
Took a closer look at the uniboard, found I put C368 in backward. It's in a group of three, obviously fudged it up not paying close attention to the + marking on the board.
I got that flipped back, now the unit boots right up.
At first, it all came alive, both VCO's working wonderfully. 5 minutes later I lost the TX VCO again, which is where I was when this all started.
Back to the drawing board, I guess, perhaps there really is a problem with that VCO after all. When it boots up if I am listening on another radio I get some screeches and beeps coming thru while it boots. The RX is working great.?
Tom W9SRV
On Monday, February 15, 2021, 10:50:49 AM CST, Bob M. <wa1mik@...> wrote:
Go (and this is the hard part) READ this article:
About half way down there's a section called "Resolutions:" where it mentions some LEDs are lit dimly. Note the item dated 20-Jun-08 and the photo.
Remove each of the filter/pin assemblies (two Torx screws) and measure each pin to the connector ground. You should get over 20 megohms on every pin. Scrape the crud off the ones that don't until they do. Check and clean both sides. Do each filter/pin assembly separately and remember how they go back in as there is a top and bottom, left and right. Use a permanent marker to make a mark in one corner of both the filter/pin assembly and the chassis.
|
- I have access to a few Marti RPU transmitters. Has anyone here had luck using them as link radios? They have beautiful audio, but not sure if they are too wide for ham links.
? Marti's were available with a variety of IF and AF bandwidths, from "very narrow" for P-channel telemetry to "wideband" that were used on 100 kHz channels on uhf, to composite (50 kHz deviation), and everything in between.? In the US, the composite ones were only available for 950 MHz, but in other countries with different STL bands, they were available in other ranges (I've seen 200 MHz and 300 MHz for example).? Preemphasis of 50 or 75 microseconds on the program audio varieties.? Single-ended noise reduction was an option.? Transformer inputs and outputs were options on some models.? There were many varieties and combinations, many of which, from the front panel, may look identical.? Every variety, from the earliest units to the most-recent that were reincarnated by BE (Broadcast Electronics) had different issues, ranging from slightly annoying to debilitating.? Personally, I wouldn't spend any time or money putting one on the air, there are much better choices out there with less hassle and potential aggravation, but that's just me. ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? --- Jeff WN3A ?
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Skyler,
I have maintained dozens of them over
the years. The transmitters are really junk, spur up fast. The
receivers have a horrible front end. For broadcasting, 40 years
ago I found about 20 GE Master pro receivers that were wide band
(15 KHz deviation). I made an unbalanced to balanced line adapter,
ran the discriminator audio through a Micor squelch IC, a very
small de-emphasis circuit, and had a superior receiver to anything
Marti ever made.
They look nice. They do have clean
audio, but they are also maintenance nightmares. I just dropped of
some 8 pieces of Marti gear to a local ham radio second hand shop.
The hams use the chassis's for projects. One guy took a RPT-2 to
hid a Baefeng with a gel cell and an identifier inside for a
"Fox-Box". Best use for the chassis yet!
Tom K8TB
On 2/15/2021 7:01 PM, Skyler Fennell
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have access to a few Marti RPU transmitters. Has
anyone here had luck using them as link radios? They have
beautiful audio, but not sure if they are too wide for ham
links.
|
I have access to a few Marti RPU transmitters. Has anyone here had luck using them as link radios? They have beautiful audio, but not sure if they are too wide for ham links.
|
Re: A poll for preference. Analog or digital?
YES!! Wayne, I totally agree with you! Have old pair of Maxtracs repeater, with Allstar and Echolink. Great understandable audio. Can judge user input signal strength by good old noise, flutter, and crackle!! Frank N6CES
wide band analog. thank you
AllStar for the linking, sounds like everybody is a local??
and I can keep using my 1990 Midland STII !
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Re: A poll for preference. Analog or digital?
wide band analog. thank you
AllStar for the linking, sounds like everybody is a local??
and I can keep using my 1990 Midland STII !
|
Available: Motorola MICOR UHF Repeater w/NHRC ? Controller
I have a Motorola MICOR UHF repeater with a NHRC ? controller available. This repeater is operational?on the 444.825+ pair. It was removed from service several years ago. It's been sitting in my climate controlled basement ever since, so obviously I don't plan to use it for anything. Motorola cabinet with doors and locks included; duplexer is not included. Power amp is TLE1713A-1 60-75 watt unit, however it's delivering only 30 watts at present. I don't know why and I'm not inclined to work on it. The Motorola PSU has a shorted filter cap,?so the PSU has been deactivated. I've modified it to accept 13.8VDC input from an external power supply and still use the regulated 9.6V card on the PSU to supply the backplane with that voltage. The repeater powers up, IDs, receives and transmits. The squelch tail is a tad long for my liking, I'm sure someone can iron that out if inclined.??
Open to offers; can deliver within a short distance of Nashville, TN. Photos?attached, please email me directly; good on QRZ.
Thanks,
Robin Midgett K4IDC
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Re: A poll for preference. Analog or digital?
Each phone uses their own software and hardware, so the are all a
little different. It's just like all car companies have anti lock
brakes, but they all call it something different, and they all
work a little different, but all do the job.
On 2/15/2021 10:46 AM, SRG wrote:
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I'm curious what makes the Apple better?? Or perhaps that should
be another topic? I'm on Verizon with a flip phone. I don't use
texting, social media or anything like that. Just voice for
emergencies or urgent stuff from the wife.
--
Regards, Karl Shoemaker
To contact me, please visit SRG's web site at?
for the current email address.
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Matt Lechliter
Don Clark
Robin Midgett
