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Re: Digital Audio Delays
Kevin Custer
Randy Nelson wrote:
From: Randy Nelson <rnelson@...>Randy, I use Motorola Micor gear exclusively for my repeater radio sets. The Micor squelch is second to none, however when mobiles are in flutter, the squelch tail is very significant. Using a delay board either reduces or eliminates the tail, making the machine much more pleasant to listen to. The delay (if wired properly) will also totally mute touch-tones when someone is controlling. I like the use of delays. Some of the early delays induced distortion but the newer ones have much more dynamic range and less induced distortion. Hope this Helps, Kevin |
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Re: Learning!
John Hackman
It's obvious, at times, that some people think they areSome are. And some have a heck of a lot of years learning behind them. I envy the newbie who knows he/she doesn't know squat,But not the newbie who asks a few questions and then decides he doesn't need to listen any more, I presume... I try to remind myself that there is no such thing as aYou GOTTA be kidding! This has EVERYTHING to do with repeaters! :-) :-) .......John WB4VVA |
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Re: NEW TO REPEATER BUILDING
Kevin Custer
Just a follow up to this thread on Paul's "Matching Stubs"
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Go to for information on this subject. I personally build my own. I incorporate the proper CATV connector as a part of my assembly which makes a nicer job, but then again I work for a CATV construction company. I AM NOT offering my re-design for sale, I don't have time to build them.... But I can tell you how I do it. Buy the stubs from Paul, you'll love them. Just one word of CAUTION however.... Get jacketed cable. Never place unjacketed hardline on a tower as the metal to metal contact (dissimilar metals) when the wind blows is bad news. It will make a cracking in the receiver when the transmitter is on......not good in a duplex situation. Kevin Justin Reed wrote: From: Justin Reed <jreed@...> |
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Re: NEW TO REPEATER BUILDING
John Hackman
toMy name is Jonathan (KE4UTT) and along with Mike (KE4WIN), we are going bebroadcastbuilding a UHF Ham Repeater. Before you make antenna plans and buy anything - have you applied to yourtower. neighborhood frequency coordinator for a channel yet? You may get a heck of a bad surprise, depending on where you are, particularly if you do decide to lay out a number of thousands of dollars for proper antenna feedline and go up 500+ feet. By all means, build the repeater itself. Even if you end up with a shared channel and your antenna at 50 feet, you'll have great fun building and learning. Regards, ......John WB4VVA |
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Re: NEW TO REPEATER BUILDING
Justin Reed
This message is for Jonathon and anybody else who is trying to build a
repeater system on a budget. Make friends with you local cable company. They use 75 ohm hardline instead of 50 ohm. Ask one of your cable technicians if they have any used 3/4" hardline laying around. Jonathon, how about forgetting the 700 foot mark, and going with something alot of economical. You can get used 3/4" hardline that will reach 300 to 400 feet. You can buy 75 ohm to 50 ohm matching transformers complete with N connectors from Paul Darwhackter W8ZD. They will cost you about $40 per pair. At my first site i used two pieces of hardline that were 140 feet long, and used a splice to put them together. The cable company was kind enough to donate both the hardline and the splice. Heck, the cable tech even came out and spliced it for us. It ran for 3 years without a single problem. Then when i had to move to a different location, i was given a 300 foot piece of 3/4" hardline, so i got to re-use the transformers and had an antenna at 300 feet without a splice. We used a network analyzer and "swept" the UHF band and the thing is perfectly flat from 430 to 460. Oh, by the way, you must order the transformers for the frequency you want to use. 3/4" 75 ohm hardline only has about .2 dB more loss per 100 feet than 7/8" heliax does. Pretty good considering how cheap you can get it. Justin and Kim Reed NUJQ and KBNTH 910 N. Argyle Minneapolis, Kansas 67467 e-mail: jreed@... The N0UJQ Homepage |
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Re: NEW TO REPEATER BUILDING
edriddle
get in touch with your local cable tv people and try to talk them out of
the necessary hard line. it is 75 ohm but wont make any difference. no way to over come loss due to 700 ft or more of coax. the other thing to do is put the repeater up at the 700 foot level if the tower is big enough and it almost has to be to be 700 ft tall. good luck ed n4ale At 09:17 PM 6/3/99 -0500, you wrote: From: "The Lacko's" <lacko@...>to be building a UHF Ham Repeater. |
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Re: NEW TO REPEATER BUILDING
wa4qkc
Scott wrote:
suggest a paper-clip style antenna. We have many commercial sites at 300 toCheck with DB Products and see if a "dipole stabilizer" is availiable for the 224 and 228 series. You could fabricate a "stabilizer" but since it's going on a commercial install site you might be required to submit a proposal for your install. The person who looks at that will probably recognize the part numbers. Ed |
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Fw: Digital Audio Delays
"Tony Lelieveld" <[email protected]
From Paul Plants I have take another approach I inserted a reed relay in the CTCSS linewhere it is inserted at the exciter and activate the relay with COStherefore....... Hi Paul. In one of our repeaters (which is linked with a UHF radio to a UHF Hub repeater) I have a HamTronics CTCSS, TD-5 board. We wanted the CTCSS tone encoded on the exciter "ONLY" when there is an incoming carrier on the repeater receiver OR the link receiver (when enabled). I have the COS signal, going high on receipt of carrier, from either receiver OR'd with two diodes and drive a 2N2222 transistor which has its collector in the negative supply lead of the CTCSS board, or the PTL pin 17 line. This way the encoder is only active when there is a signal on the input of the repeater receiver or the link receiver (when enabled) Most CTCSS boards draw very little current which can be switched through a transistor and no relays are needed. When the signal on the input of either receiver disappears, the encoder is disabled and the mobile will stop seeing the tone and mute the audio. Anyone who wants to listen to the entire tail transmission on the output of the repeater can always disable their CTCSS decode function on their receiver. Tony VE3DWI |
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Re: NEW TO REPEATER BUILDING
Mike Hamann
Jonathan,
Being relatively new to this list and the building of repeaters myself, several "holes" appear in your big plan. Seven hundred feet is a good height, but not if you have to run hardline (forget coax!). If you are independently wealthy, fine, run 7/8" or better hardline. The losses and deterioration of plastic and braid covered coax make it a rotten choice. If it's a tower big enough to house the "machine" at 700 feet, that's nice, as long as you don't have to make a lot of service calls to the repeater at the 700 foot level. Someone already suggested staying away from the (high intensity) RF field(s) if it's possible. If there is a UHF TV transmitter antenna on the same tower at say the 680 foot level, you would be better off at 580 feet (100 feet lower +/-) to get away from the high RF field near their antenna. If there are VHF TV and VHF FM on the same tower as your repeater, then the juggling gets trickier. Of course, if the tower is only an AM broadcast antenna (doubt), you might get lucky and have very little repeater antenna height adjustments to do. From: KE4UTT@...we are going to be building a UHF Ham Repeater.on a broadcast tower.to use a high power radio, ie something with 100watts out, ifpossible)? <SNIP> Keep It Simple. Try a medium power (20-50 watts) repeater first. Remember that UHF mobiles are rated at ICAS (Intermittent Commercial and Amateur Service), not Continuous Commercial Service (CCS) - which is what your repeater should be derated to. A 100 watt mobile, when converted to repeater service, should be derated to approximately 50% of it's previous output power... that's now a 50 watt repeater. Both Motorola Micors and GE MastrIIs (Master Twos) would be good choices. They are available as used commercial gear. Both were probably the "high water mark" in U.S. commercial radio manufacture... they use discreet components versus present day microelectronics and ICs. You will learn a lot by converting mobile units to repeater service yourself. Also, a more balanced system would be the same power into the antenna as most of the mobile users are putting into their antennas. What good is a repeater that can be heard well 40 miles distant, but cannot be worked by a 25-50 watt mobile at that distance?? Forget about the handhelds! "System balance" is the key word here. 2. What type of controller will allow me to have decode ofPL tone as well as an autopatch and multiple users..etc..?You're biting off a mighty big chunk for a newbie! A simpler series of controllers, either pre-assembled or do-it-yourself are at: (I'm no expert in this area!) (If you're really serious about an autopatch, you'll have to get info from somewhere else.) 3. How do I go about hooking them all together and gettingthem to work. (I've never really done a project like this before)You have other problems to solve before getting to this point. The first is "learning", generally on a mistake-strewn path, what it is you are trying to do. Be patient with yourself. 4. What does "COR" mean? I've seen it in differentarticles and am unsure what it stands for/what it does...COR, or CAS mean similar things: Carrier Operated Relay, Carrier Active Sense. Basically means a circuit that is activated upon decrease of FM noise, similar to an FM squelch circuit. A COR circuit senses signal presence, and turns on the transmitter of a repeater, i.e., it "activates" the repeater (along with some other circuits). If you don't have any idea what I'm talking about here, then you need to slow down in your hurry to put "something" up at the 700 foot level!!! 5. Would I be better off building an antenna? or buy one.I'd like to get something with the MOST Gain possible (seeing as Iwill loose quite a bit with the long run of Coax. (can't afordHardline). BUY THE BEST ANTENNA you can afford. Stick around here, there are some good opinions about commercial (DB, Celwave, etc.) antennas that are made for the harsh environments that we put repeaters into. Forget Comet, Diamond, and other lightweight "ham" antennas. Some of these are not just physical lightweights, but do not work well on duplex, either. A hint I've picked up: the exposed metal dipole type antennas are better that the "Stationmaster" or enclosed collinear types. DB and Celwave make some very good multi-dipole arrays. After reading #5 again, I believe you would be better off with building your first machine with a much shorter antenna run, but with a good commercial antenna fed with (used?) hardline. Maybe your 700 foot height isn't such a good deal, after all!! Thanks for everyone's time in advance..and from "watching"the list for a while you all are very intresting and very helpfull. I lookforward to learning everything I can from everyone. Some of what you learn will have to be dug up by your own inquisitiveness. Jonathan You're welcome. 73, Mike |
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Re: NEW TO REPEATER BUILDING
The Lacko's
At 700 feet the coax and antenna are the most important part of the
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equation!!!!! The tower crew costs will require a COMMERCIAL grade antenna. You don't want to pay the cost of an antenna to replace the home brew if or when i goes bad. I highly suggest a paper-clip style antenna. We have many commercial sites at 300 to 500 ft. they tolerate lighting and wind (not ice) much better than the fiberglass antennas. The up front costs hurt but the overall costs will kill you if a home brew antenna goes bad once or twice. Scott My name is Jonathan (KE4UTT) and along with Mike (KE4WIN), we are going to be 5. Would I be better off building an antenna? or buy one. I'd like |
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unsubcribe
The Lacko's
After post and replies like this i must leave this list .
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At 06/03/1999 04:51 PM, you wrote:
From: Big Daddy <bigdad@...> |
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Digital Audio Delays / DBW's post / 700' tower
mch
DrWho? wrote:
What does the controller code have to do with squelch tail elimination? Second: Rich (DBW), thanks for the post that you are back. Now I can ask you more RLC programming questions. <big grin> Last: Jonathan (KE4UTT), here is a fact you may want to consider. RG-8/U has 3.5 dB loss per hundred feet at 400 MHz. 700 feet will have 24.5 dB loss. Putting 100W into that feedline (not even considering duplexer insertion loss) will result in about 400 mW (a little less than half a Watt) at your antenna. Your receiver sensitivity would similarly suffer. Joe, KR3P |
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Re: [Fwd: GE Mastr II's Queston]
Jeff Otterson
look at www.nhrc.net/mastr2
Jeff At 04:04 PM 6/3/99 -0600, you wrote: --Jeff Otterson/N1KDO ------------------- PGP key available at "Silence those who oppose free speech." |
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Learning!
Mike Hamann
It's obvious, at times, that some people think they are
born with all the answers. I envy the newbie who knows he/she doesn't know squat, and who remains humble enough to listen to other people's answers. I try to remind myself that there is no such thing as a dumb question -- just stupid mistakes! Now, what does this have to do with repeaters... < wide grin > ? I dunno! 73, Mike From: Big Daddy <bigdad@...>part of it,if ya gotta ask dumb questions.<LARGE SNIP> |
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Re: NEW TO REPEATER BUILDING
Justin Reed
At 18:37 6/3/99 EDT, you wrote:
From: KE4UTT@...be building a UHF Ham Repeater.Save yourself the cash and line loss. Don't go any higher than 300 feet. If money is no object, then you won't have any trouble finding 2 1/4 inch hardline. I would also not recommend putting your antenna in the near-field area of the broadcast antenna. My Question(s) are as follows: 4. What does "COR" mean? I've seen it in different articles and amCarrier operated relay. May also be called Carrier Activated Sensor. 5. Would I be better off building an antenna? or buy one. I'd likeDon't learn this the hard way. If you are going to be going on a 700 foot tower, don't not build anything. Buy galvanized mounting hardware, antenna clamps, and good antennas. Do NOT buy a "ham" antenna. To determine how much gain you need, you need to consider what area you are trying to cover. If you want strong penetration within a 15 mile radius, use an antenna with no more than 6 dB gain. If you don't care about how good the repeater works close-in, but you want to talk 60 miles away, then go with a higher gain. Antenna Gain DOES NOT compensate for feedline loss. Antenna gain is more of an expression about how much energy the antenna radiated on the horizon in contrast to the rest of the horizontal plane. If you use an antenna with 10 dB gain, you will have dead spots 5 miles from the repeater. I just saw the part of your question in which you state you can't afford hardline, and you are using coax on a 700 foot tower. Completely disreguard everything i've written. Justin and Kim Reed NUJQ and KBNTH 910 N. Argyle Minneapolis, Kansas 67467 e-mail: jreed@... The N0UJQ Homepage |
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[Fwd: GE Mastr II's Queston]
Tyler Griffiths
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+........................................................................+ | Tyler Griffiths Ham Radio | | N7UWX | | Amateur Radio N7UWX President-Bridgerland Amateur Radio club | | (435) 750-9222 (pager) |=| n7uwx@... | | southpaw@... (o o) n7uwx@... | +---------------------------oOO--V--OOo----------------------------------+ |
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Re: Dayton etc.
Big Daddy
This site is like a BIG family....Obviously "YOU" are not part of it,if ya
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gotta ask dumb questions. Richard is one of our experts here. Soooo be nice. 73...Paul what dose this have to do with Repeater-builder???? |
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Re: Dayton etc.
critic
what dose this have to do with Repeater-builder????
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----- Original Message -----
From: Richard D. Reese <richardr@...> To: <RLC@...>; <Repeater-builder@...>; <repeater@...>; <Repeaters@...>; <ACC@...> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 1999 6:18 AM Subject: [Repeater-builder] Dayton etc. From: "Richard D. Reese" <richardr@...> |
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