|
Doug-I’ve built a number short loaded verticals including your design a few years ago at Pacificon. And it works fine. But AX1 is a much smaller form factor and is very ruggedly built. No home brew vertical ?antenna is small enough to fit in my LowPro 60 case with my KX2 and all the accessories. I’ve traveled around the world and hiked numerous summits with this one bag station since 2016. I’ll post a picture here. I have the radio,spare battery, headphones,Begali Adventure paddle, log book,the AX1 and whip and the AEX1 for 30 and 40M coverage, bipod and tripod mounts (bipod attaches AX1 directly to the KX2 BNC) and necessary counterpoises plus a 25 foot 26 gauge wire for a random end fed if needed. ?It would be extremely difficult to replicate the small format and functionality of the AX1/AEX1 as a homebrewer that would fit in a small bag with all of the other components. One very small bag-and now with the KH1 I actually have an even smaller option -the AX1 is built into the radio and I can be on the air in less than a minute. I got a real kick out of seeing Hiroki’s (AH6CY) homebrew version of the KH1 ?at Pacificon last year, but I’d never take it on a plane or throw it in a backpack for a hike. You get what you pay for.? Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com? N7CQR@...
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On Mar 23, 2025, at 22:29, Dave AB7E via groups.io <AB7Echo@...> wrote:
?
Absolutely true.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/23/2025 9:52 PM, Doug Hendricks
via groups.io wrote:
Dan, we are going to have to have a talk about the AH1.? It
is way overpriced for what it is.? You can build a far better
antenna similar to the AH1 for $10.
?
Doug
|
Dan, the small form factor is part of the problem.? ?It's diameter is half the one of the homebrew version.? The larger the coil diameter,? the greater the Q, which is directly related to the efficiency and effectiveness of the antenna.? The homebrew version you built (for less than $10)? takes very little more space.? ?I have had one in my small bag for years.? I just can't justify paying $100 more for an inferior antenna.? I have done sided by side comparisons of two antennas and the homebrew one wins every time.? Facts are facts.? The AH1 is well built and looks good.? The homebrew one works better and is $100 cheaper.? And they? both fit in the bag.
?
Can't wait for Pacificon.?
Doug
|
Are there plans online for the homebrew antenna?
Thx
John KY4WW
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
This email originated from outside of Samford University. Please consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any attachments,
or provide any information.
Dan, the small form factor is part of the problem.? ?It's diameter is half the one of the homebrew version.? The larger the coil diameter,? the greater the Q, which is directly related to the efficiency and effectiveness of the antenna.? The homebrew version
you built (for less than $10)? takes very little more space.? ?I have had one in my small bag for years.? I just can't justify paying $100 more for an inferior antenna.? I have done sided by side comparisons of two antennas and the homebrew one wins every
time.? Facts are facts.? The AH1 is well built and looks good.? The homebrew one works better and is $100 cheaper.? And they? both fit in the bag.
?
Can't wait for Pacificon.?
Doug
|
? ? Thanks Doug for the info. I’ve been an active ham doing portable CW/QRP operating since the mid 1970’s. ?Back then I was hauling around my TenTec 509 with 2 6V lantern batteries and a fan dipole..then became a NorCal club member. amongst other activities including working with Russ Carpenter on the Adventure Radio Society. I’m pretty familiar with most types of portable antennas,including a wide variety of verticals. ?Not long after I built my K2 I became acquainted with Vern Wright W6MMA and his Super Antennas,and got the PW-1 (which I still have and it’s superbly well made). I’m very familiar with the concept that a larger vertical would have higher Q,and potentially be more efficient than a smaller one.? So-why would I continue to use something like the AX1 when a larger vertical would be better? Well..as they say a picture is worth a thousand words,and I’ve attached a couple. What you see my version of the ‘shack in a box’ with KX2,AX1,AEX1, Begali Adventure paddle and assorted accessories including battery,radials, a random wire end fed and other assorted items. And you can see next to it the vertical we built based on your plans. The point of this is to show the size difference and all important form factor. Oh -and I forgot to include the tripod needed to mount the vertical. The AX1 doesn’t need that I can mount it directly to the KX2. I figure I’d need a bag about twice the size to carry the larger gear and extra mounting hardware… Here’s the deal-the bag you see has been hauled around the world and hiked to numerous SOTA and POTA sites since 2016. Is the AX1 less efficient than the larger vertical? Yes, but I wouldn’t have taken the larger one due to size and weight requirements. The small bag allows me to take the radio practically anywhere in the world,just tucked into a corner of my carryon or suitcase,and I can be set up in about 2 minutes or less. And the very low profile of the AX1 is ideal for many locations where otherwise I’d probably not set up and operate. And that stinkin’ little antenna has made thousands of DX , S2S and P2P contacts worldwide-Wayne & Co. at Elecraft have made it as efficient as possible given the size. ? Regardless of where or when I operate I always try to use the ?best antenna I can reasonably carry. If I’m traveling by car,then I can definitely take a bigger unit,and I have a bunch of great options. Same when hiking to a summit-carry as little as possible to get the job done. It’s ultimately a matter of trade offs. Given all of these factors the small package and flexibility of the AX1 is for me a good trade off for some less efficiency,and the difference between taking and operating in many situations. For some folks the cost is an issue but for me spreading out the initial outlay over the past 9 years($11/year )is a great balance. I don’t mind paying a fair price for well made item that gives me lots of use. I have operated in many interesting places and in situations where a larger setup wouldn’t be possible. And now with the KH1 (which has the same antenna) it’s even easier to travel and operate. Money very well spent in my opinion. I often ask hams- ‘do you want to operate or equivocate?’ ? 
Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com? N7CQR@...
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On Mar 24, 2025, at 10:06, John KY4WW via groups.io <jmdanner@...> wrote:
?
Are there plans online for the homebrew antenna?
Thx
John KY4WW
This email originated from outside of Samford University. Please consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any attachments,
or provide any information.
Dan, the small form factor is part of the problem.? ?It's diameter is half the one of the homebrew version.? The larger the coil diameter,? the greater the Q, which is directly related to the efficiency and effectiveness of the antenna.? The homebrew version
you built (for less than $10)? takes very little more space.? ?I have had one in my small bag for years.? I just can't justify paying $100 more for an inferior antenna.? I have done sided by side comparisons of two antennas and the homebrew one wins every
time.? Facts are facts.? The AH1 is well built and looks good.? The homebrew one works better and is $100 cheaper.? And they? both fit in the bag.
?
Can't wait for Pacificon.?
Doug
|
Hi Dan?
What you say about your backpack is true. ?I’m a hiker and portable operator so keeping size and weight down is essential .?
The more bits you carry the longer it takes to put together and take down .?
My XYL understandably complains ( she loves mountains and coming with me ) but rightly wants my activation short . Probably a good idea when at 2000m in the snow in the Bavarian alps . But even last week in England at just 400m asl it was cold in the wind after 2 hours . I took my 5.5m telescopic whip, adjustable coil , base and spike , 4 radial wires , my IC705 with external lipo battery . Morse key, coax from antenna base to radio - it genuinely surprising how it soon adds up !?
My friend DL8JJ is a mountaineer and guide - he has done a lot of activations with the KH1. Yes the antenna works but results not as good - does it matter ? He sometimes takes his Spiderbeam lightweight OCFD antenna supported by a walking pole - so not far off the ground that works well too .?
It’s all about getting the equipment down to suit your needs and taste .?
I came back home last week knowing I’d taken quite a heavy pack with me - but if I had a pack with ropes , crampons etc I’d take a KH1 .?
As we say here - you pays your money and takes your choice !?
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On 25 Mar 2025, at 06:40, Dan N7CQR via groups.io <n7cqr@...> wrote:
? ? ? Thanks Doug for the info. I’ve been an active ham doing portable CW/QRP operating since the mid 1970’s. ?Back then I was hauling around my TenTec 509 with 2 6V lantern batteries and a fan dipole..then became a NorCal club member. amongst other activities including working with Russ Carpenter on the Adventure Radio Society. I’m pretty familiar with most types of portable antennas,including a wide variety of verticals. ?Not long after I built my K2 I became acquainted with Vern Wright W6MMA and his Super Antennas,and got the PW-1 (which I still have and it’s superbly well made). I’m very familiar with the concept that a larger vertical would have higher Q,and potentially be more efficient than a smaller one.? So-why would I continue to use something like the AX1 when a larger vertical would be better? Well..as they say a picture is worth a thousand words,and I’ve attached a couple. What you see my version of the ‘shack in a box’ with KX2,AX1,AEX1, Begali Adventure paddle and assorted accessories including battery,radials, a random wire end fed and other assorted items. And you can see next to it the vertical we built based on your plans. The point of this is to show the size difference and all important form factor. Oh -and I forgot to include the tripod needed to mount the vertical. The AX1 doesn’t need that I can mount it directly to the KX2. I figure I’d need a bag about twice the size to carry the larger gear and extra mounting hardware… Here’s the deal-the bag you see has been hauled around the world and hiked to numerous SOTA and POTA sites since 2016. Is the AX1 less efficient than the larger vertical? Yes, but I wouldn’t have taken the larger one due to size and weight requirements. The small bag allows me to take the radio practically anywhere in the world,just tucked into a corner of my carryon or suitcase,and I can be set up in about 2 minutes or less. And the very low profile of the AX1 is ideal for many locations where otherwise I’d probably not set up and operate. And that stinkin’ little antenna has made thousands of DX , S2S and P2P contacts worldwide-Wayne & Co. at Elecraft have made it as efficient as possible given the size. ? Regardless of where or when I operate I always try to use the ?best antenna I can reasonably carry. If I’m traveling by car,then I can definitely take a bigger unit,and I have a bunch of great options. Same when hiking to a summit-carry as little as possible to get the job done. It’s ultimately a matter of trade offs. Given all of these factors the small package and flexibility of the AX1 is for me a good trade off for some less efficiency,and the difference between taking and operating in many situations. For some folks the cost is an issue but for me spreading out the initial outlay over the past 9 years($11/year )is a great balance. I don’t mind paying a fair price for well made item that gives me lots of use. I have operated in many interesting places and in situations where a larger setup wouldn’t be possible. And now with the KH1 (which has the same antenna) it’s even easier to travel and operate. Money very well spent in my opinion. I often ask hams- ‘do you want to operate or equivocate?’ ? <image.png>
Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com? N7CQR@...
On Mar 24, 2025, at 10:06, John KY4WW via groups.io <jmdanner@...> wrote:
?
Are there plans online for the homebrew antenna?
Thx
John KY4WW
This email originated from outside of Samford University. Please consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any attachments,
or provide any information.
Dan, the small form factor is part of the problem.? ?It's diameter is half the one of the homebrew version.? The larger the coil diameter,? the greater the Q, which is directly related to the efficiency and effectiveness of the antenna.? The homebrew version
you built (for less than $10)? takes very little more space.? ?I have had one in my small bag for years.? I just can't justify paying $100 more for an inferior antenna.? I have done sided by side comparisons of two antennas and the homebrew one wins every
time.? Facts are facts.? The AH1 is well built and looks good.? The homebrew one works better and is $100 cheaper.? And they? both fit in the bag.
?
Can't wait for Pacificon.?
Doug
|
I don't think anyone can deny that an AX1 is a very convenient antenna, but isn't the elephant in the room still efficiency?
Looking at Doug's antenna, judging from the whip size, I'd guess it's probably about 7 feet long assembled.??
In theory, given the old radiation resistance increases with the square of the length truism, it's probably about 3-4 dB better than a 4 footer.? If it was 8 feet, it could be as much as 6 dB better.? And if you use a whip like the one on an MFJ 1898, you can get almost 7 feet of length that collapses to about 9 inches.? That's a little over 4dB better for way less bux, a little more effort, and just a bit longer collapsed antenna length.
And it's easy to attach to Doug's antenna or just a long whip to a KX2 with a little bracket like in the picture below. Maybe Howie could sell one.:)
The KX2 tunes the 1898 whip only configuration?thru 17 meters well, on 20 well enough, and if you add a 6 uH? coil, 30 works well, and an 18 uH coil 40 works well.? I'm just too cheap to throw away an easy 3 -4 dB when I'm already not that loud.
I'm not anti-AX1 or Elecraft, God knows Wayne has enough of my money.? But it would be fun to see a Super AX-1A that is more efficient, easily packed and exploits the superb tuner in the KX2 to its maximum benefit., I might have to part with more money then. :)
72 Scott ka9p
? ?Thanks Doug for the info. I’ve been an active ham doing portable CW/QRP operating since the mid 1970’s.? Back then I was hauling around my TenTec 509 with 2 6V lantern batteries and a fan dipole..then became a NorCal club member. amongst other activities including working with Russ Carpenter on the Adventure Radio Society. I’m pretty familiar with most types of portable antennas,including a wide variety of verticals.? Not long after I built my K2 I became acquainted with Vern Wright W6MMA and his Super Antennas,and got the PW-1 (which I still have and it’s superbly well made). I’m very familiar with the concept that a larger vertical would have higher Q,and potentially be more efficient than a smaller one.? So-why would I continue to use something like the AX1 when a larger vertical would be better? Well..as they say a picture is worth a thousand words,and I’ve attached a couple. What you see my version of the ‘shack in a box’ with KX2,AX1,AEX1, Begali Adventure paddle and assorted accessories including battery,radials, a random wire end fed and other assorted items. And you can see next to it the vertical we built based on your plans. The point of this is to show the size difference and all important form factor. Oh -and I forgot to include the tripod needed to mount the vertical. The AX1 doesn’t need that I can mount it directly to the KX2. I figure I’d need a bag about twice the size to carry the larger gear and extra mounting hardware… Here’s the deal-the bag you see has been hauled around the world and hiked to numerous SOTA and POTA sites since 2016. Is the AX1 less efficient than the larger vertical? Yes, but I wouldn’t have taken the larger one due to size and weight requirements. The small bag allows me to take the radio practically anywhere in the world,just tucked into a corner of my carryon or suitcase,and I can be set up in about 2 minutes or less. And the very low profile of the AX1 is ideal for many locations where otherwise I’d probably not set up and operate. And that stinkin’ little antenna has made thousands of DX , S2S and P2P contacts worldwide-Wayne & Co. at Elecraft have made it as efficient as possible given the size. ? Regardless of where or when I operate I always try to use the ?best antenna I can reasonably carry. If I’m traveling by car,then I can definitely take a bigger unit,and I have a bunch of great options. Same when hiking to a summit-carry as little as possible to get the job done. It’s ultimately a matter of trade offs. Given all of these factors the small package and flexibility of the AX1 is for me a good trade off for some less efficiency,and the difference between taking and operating in many situations. For some folks the cost is an issue but for me spreading out the initial outlay over the past 9 years($11/year )is a great balance. I don’t mind paying a fair price for well made item that gives me lots of use. I have operated in many interesting places and in situations where a larger setup wouldn’t be possible. And now with the KH1 (which has the same antenna) it’s even easier to travel and operate. Money very well spent in my opinion. I often ask hams- ‘do you want to operate or equivocate?’ ? 
Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com?
?
Are there plans online for the homebrew antenna?
Thx
John KY4WW
This email originated from outside of Samford University. Please consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any attachments,
or provide any information.
Dan, the small form factor is part of the problem.? ?It's diameter is half the one of the homebrew version.? The larger the coil diameter,? the greater the Q, which is directly related to the efficiency and effectiveness of the antenna.? The homebrew version
you built (for less than $10)? takes very little more space.? ?I have had one in my small bag for years.? I just can't justify paying $100 more for an inferior antenna.? I have done sided by side comparisons of two antennas and the homebrew one wins every
time.? Facts are facts.? The AH1 is well built and looks good.? The homebrew one works better and is $100 cheaper.? And they? both fit in the bag.
?
Can't wait for Pacificon.?
Doug
|
It’s a matter of trade offs that each operator is willing to make. No doubt that other larger antennas can be more efficient,but how much are you willing to pack around? Last summer I made a trip to the Orkney Islands,and you are definitely limited in how much baggage you can bring on a very small plane. . Wanting to get some radio time in,it’s an easy decision to bring my small bag and still have room for clothing and other essentials. And I successfully got on the air with the AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one 45 minute session. For me that’s a good trade off. ?Back home I use the best antenna I can reasonably carry. Lately I’ve been using the Chelegance MC 750 vertical which is a full 1/4 wave on 20-10 Meters with the KH1 and having excellent results. It breaks down into a relatively small package-but still nothing I’d ever fly or take a longer hike with. We have so many great options these days.? Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com? N7CQR@...
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On Mar 25, 2025, at 08:37, Scott KA9P via groups.io <ka9pscott@...> wrote:
?
I don't think anyone can deny that an AX1 is a very convenient antenna, but isn't the elephant in the room still efficiency?
Looking at Doug's antenna, judging from the whip size, I'd guess it's probably about 7 feet long assembled.??
In theory, given the old radiation resistance increases with the square of the length truism, it's probably about 3-4 dB better than a 4 footer.? If it was 8 feet, it could be as much as 6 dB better.? And if you use a whip like the one on an MFJ 1898, you can get almost 7 feet of length that collapses to about 9 inches.? That's a little over 4dB better for way less bux, a little more effort, and just a bit longer collapsed antenna length.
And it's easy to attach to Doug's antenna or just a long whip to a KX2 with a little bracket like in the picture below. Maybe Howie could sell one.:)
The KX2 tunes the 1898 whip only configuration?thru 17 meters well, on 20 well enough, and if you add a 6 uH? coil, 30 works well, and an 18 uH coil 40 works well.? I'm just too cheap to throw away an easy 3 -4 dB when I'm already not that loud.
I'm not anti-AX1 or Elecraft, God knows Wayne has enough of my money.? But it would be fun to see a Super AX-1A that is more efficient, easily packed and exploits the superb tuner in the KX2 to its maximum benefit., I might have to part with more money then. :)
72 Scott ka9p
? ?Thanks Doug for the info. I’ve been an active ham doing portable CW/QRP operating since the mid 1970’s.? Back then I was hauling around my TenTec 509 with 2 6V lantern batteries and a fan dipole..then became a NorCal club member. amongst other activities including working with Russ Carpenter on the Adventure Radio Society. I’m pretty familiar with most types of portable antennas,including a wide variety of verticals.? Not long after I built my K2 I became acquainted with Vern Wright W6MMA and his Super Antennas,and got the PW-1 (which I still have and it’s superbly well made). I’m very familiar with the concept that a larger vertical would have higher Q,and potentially be more efficient than a smaller one.? So-why would I continue to use something like the AX1 when a larger vertical would be better? Well..as they say a picture is worth a thousand words,and I’ve attached a couple. What you see my version of the ‘shack in a box’ with KX2,AX1,AEX1, Begali Adventure paddle and assorted accessories including battery,radials, a random wire end fed and other assorted items. And you can see next to it the vertical we built based on your plans. The point of this is to show the size difference and all important form factor. Oh -and I forgot to include the tripod needed to mount the vertical. The AX1 doesn’t need that I can mount it directly to the KX2. I figure I’d need a bag about twice the size to carry the larger gear and extra mounting hardware… Here’s the deal-the bag you see has been hauled around the world and hiked to numerous SOTA and POTA sites since 2016. Is the AX1 less efficient than the larger vertical? Yes, but I wouldn’t have taken the larger one due to size and weight requirements. The small bag allows me to take the radio practically anywhere in the world,just tucked into a corner of my carryon or suitcase,and I can be set up in about 2 minutes or less. And the very low profile of the AX1 is ideal for many locations where otherwise I’d probably not set up and operate. And that stinkin’ little antenna has made thousands of DX , S2S and P2P contacts worldwide-Wayne & Co. at Elecraft have made it as efficient as possible given the size. ? Regardless of where or when I operate I always try to use the ?best antenna I can reasonably carry. If I’m traveling by car,then I can definitely take a bigger unit,and I have a bunch of great options. Same when hiking to a summit-carry as little as possible to get the job done. It’s ultimately a matter of trade offs. Given all of these factors the small package and flexibility of the AX1 is for me a good trade off for some less efficiency,and the difference between taking and operating in many situations. For some folks the cost is an issue but for me spreading out the initial outlay over the past 9 years($11/year )is a great balance. I don’t mind paying a fair price for well made item that gives me lots of use. I have operated in many interesting places and in situations where a larger setup wouldn’t be possible. And now with the KH1 (which has the same antenna) it’s even easier to travel and operate. Money very well spent in my opinion. I often ask hams- ‘do you want to operate or equivocate?’ ? <image.png>
Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com?
?
Are there plans online for the homebrew antenna?
Thx
John KY4WW
This email originated from outside of Samford University. Please consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any attachments,
or provide any information.
Dan, the small form factor is part of the problem.? ?It's diameter is half the one of the homebrew version.? The larger the coil diameter,? the greater the Q, which is directly related to the efficiency and effectiveness of the antenna.? The homebrew version
you built (for less than $10)? takes very little more space.? ?I have had one in my small bag for years.? I just can't justify paying $100 more for an inferior antenna.? I have done sided by side comparisons of two antennas and the homebrew one wins every
time.? Facts are facts.? The AH1 is well built and looks good.? The homebrew one works better and is $100 cheaper.? And they? both fit in the bag.
?
Can't wait for Pacificon.?
Doug
|
I forgot to mention that I also carry a EFRW in my little bag,that of course is more efficient than almost short loaded vertical. Mine is Adam’s K6ARK clever design that incorporates a 9:1 balun into the BNC connector. But you have to have either a tree or a pole to toss it into. If you’ve been to the Orkneys you know that there’s not many trees there…? Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com? N7CQR@...
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On Mar 25, 2025, at 11:22, Dan N7CQR via groups.io <N7CQR@...> wrote:
? It’s a matter of trade offs that each operator is willing to make. No doubt that other larger antennas can be more efficient,but how much are you willing to pack around? Last summer I made a trip to the Orkney Islands,and you are definitely limited in how much baggage you can bring on a very small plane. . Wanting to get some radio time in,it’s an easy decision to bring my small bag and still have room for clothing and other essentials. And I successfully got on the air with the AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one 45 minute session. For me that’s a good trade off. ?Back home I use the best antenna I can reasonably carry. Lately I’ve been using the Chelegance MC 750 vertical which is a full 1/4 wave on 20-10 Meters with the KH1 and having excellent results. It breaks down into a relatively small package-but still nothing I’d ever fly or take a longer hike with. We have so many great options these days.? Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com? N7CQR@...
On Mar 25, 2025, at 08:37, Scott KA9P via groups.io <ka9pscott@...> wrote:
?
I don't think anyone can deny that an AX1 is a very convenient antenna, but isn't the elephant in the room still efficiency?
Looking at Doug's antenna, judging from the whip size, I'd guess it's probably about 7 feet long assembled.??
In theory, given the old radiation resistance increases with the square of the length truism, it's probably about 3-4 dB better than a 4 footer.? If it was 8 feet, it could be as much as 6 dB better.? And if you use a whip like the one on an MFJ 1898, you can get almost 7 feet of length that collapses to about 9 inches.? That's a little over 4dB better for way less bux, a little more effort, and just a bit longer collapsed antenna length.
And it's easy to attach to Doug's antenna or just a long whip to a KX2 with a little bracket like in the picture below. Maybe Howie could sell one.:)
The KX2 tunes the 1898 whip only configuration?thru 17 meters well, on 20 well enough, and if you add a 6 uH? coil, 30 works well, and an 18 uH coil 40 works well.? I'm just too cheap to throw away an easy 3 -4 dB when I'm already not that loud.
I'm not anti-AX1 or Elecraft, God knows Wayne has enough of my money.? But it would be fun to see a Super AX-1A that is more efficient, easily packed and exploits the superb tuner in the KX2 to its maximum benefit., I might have to part with more money then. :)
72 Scott ka9p
? ?Thanks Doug for the info. I’ve been an active ham doing portable CW/QRP operating since the mid 1970’s.? Back then I was hauling around my TenTec 509 with 2 6V lantern batteries and a fan dipole..then became a NorCal club member. amongst other activities including working with Russ Carpenter on the Adventure Radio Society. I’m pretty familiar with most types of portable antennas,including a wide variety of verticals.? Not long after I built my K2 I became acquainted with Vern Wright W6MMA and his Super Antennas,and got the PW-1 (which I still have and it’s superbly well made). I’m very familiar with the concept that a larger vertical would have higher Q,and potentially be more efficient than a smaller one.? So-why would I continue to use something like the AX1 when a larger vertical would be better? Well..as they say a picture is worth a thousand words,and I’ve attached a couple. What you see my version of the ‘shack in a box’ with KX2,AX1,AEX1, Begali Adventure paddle and assorted accessories including battery,radials, a random wire end fed and other assorted items. And you can see next to it the vertical we built based on your plans. The point of this is to show the size difference and all important form factor. Oh -and I forgot to include the tripod needed to mount the vertical. The AX1 doesn’t need that I can mount it directly to the KX2. I figure I’d need a bag about twice the size to carry the larger gear and extra mounting hardware… Here’s the deal-the bag you see has been hauled around the world and hiked to numerous SOTA and POTA sites since 2016. Is the AX1 less efficient than the larger vertical? Yes, but I wouldn’t have taken the larger one due to size and weight requirements. The small bag allows me to take the radio practically anywhere in the world,just tucked into a corner of my carryon or suitcase,and I can be set up in about 2 minutes or less. And the very low profile of the AX1 is ideal for many locations where otherwise I’d probably not set up and operate. And that stinkin’ little antenna has made thousands of DX , S2S and P2P contacts worldwide-Wayne & Co. at Elecraft have made it as efficient as possible given the size. ? Regardless of where or when I operate I always try to use the ?best antenna I can reasonably carry. If I’m traveling by car,then I can definitely take a bigger unit,and I have a bunch of great options. Same when hiking to a summit-carry as little as possible to get the job done. It’s ultimately a matter of trade offs. Given all of these factors the small package and flexibility of the AX1 is for me a good trade off for some less efficiency,and the difference between taking and operating in many situations. For some folks the cost is an issue but for me spreading out the initial outlay over the past 9 years($11/year )is a great balance. I don’t mind paying a fair price for well made item that gives me lots of use. I have operated in many interesting places and in situations where a larger setup wouldn’t be possible. And now with the KH1 (which has the same antenna) it’s even easier to travel and operate. Money very well spent in my opinion. I often ask hams- ‘do you want to operate or equivocate?’ ? <image.png>
Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com?
?
Are there plans online for the homebrew antenna?
Thx
John KY4WW
This email originated from outside of Samford University. Please consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any attachments,
or provide any information.
Dan, the small form factor is part of the problem.? ?It's diameter is half the one of the homebrew version.? The larger the coil diameter,? the greater the Q, which is directly related to the efficiency and effectiveness of the antenna.? The homebrew version
you built (for less than $10)? takes very little more space.? ?I have had one in my small bag for years.? I just can't justify paying $100 more for an inferior antenna.? I have done sided by side comparisons of two antennas and the homebrew one wins every
time.? Facts are facts.? The AH1 is well built and looks good.? The homebrew one works better and is $100 cheaper.? And they? both fit in the bag.
?
Can't wait for Pacificon.?
Doug
|
You should try the EFRW sometime just laying on the
ground, or maybe laying across a rock.? I'll say again ... most of
the radiating from an AX1 comes from either the counterpoise or
the shield of the coax (if not using a common mode choke), and for
the majority of uses either of those are lying on or very near the
top of the ground.? The surface of most "ground" isn't an RF
ground, and if the soil is dry or fairly non-conductive the actual
RF ground is probably several feet below the surface.? Not sure
what the ground characteristic in the Orkneys is, though.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 12:18 PM, Dan N7CQR via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I forgot to mention that I also carry a EFRW in my little bag,that
of course is more efficient than almost short loaded vertical.
Mine is Adam’s K6ARK clever design that incorporates a 9:1 balun
into the BNC connector. But you have to have either a tree or a
pole to toss it into. If you’ve been to the Orkneys you know that
there’s not many trees there…?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 11:22, Dan N7CQR via
groups.io <N7CQR@...> wrote:
?
It’s a matter of trade offs that each operator is willing to
make. No doubt that other larger antennas can be more
efficient,but how much are you willing to pack around? Last
summer I made a trip to the Orkney Islands,and you are
definitely limited in how much baggage you can bring on a very
small plane. . Wanting to get some radio time in,it’s an easy
decision to bring my small bag and still have room for
clothing and other essentials. And I successfully got on the
air with the AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one 45 minute
session. For me that’s a good trade off. ?Back home I use the
best antenna I can reasonably carry. Lately I’ve been using
the Chelegance MC 750 vertical which is a full 1/4 wave on
20-10 Meters with the KH1 and having excellent results. It
breaks down into a relatively small package-but still nothing
I’d ever fly or take a longer hike with. We have so many great
options these days.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
|
I’ve used this strategy on bare summits above 3-4000 feet with some success. Unfortunately at sea level or low elevation you’re just warming the earthworms. Any type of short vertical with an elevated radial will provide a decent takeoff angle. You can model this in EZNEC. A good resource for using short verticals effectively are the writings of Jerry Severns for the ARRL Antenna handbook or the website for antenna ‘guru’ LB Cebik.? Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com? N7CQR@...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 25, 2025, at 12:42, Dave AB7E via groups.io <AB7Echo@...> wrote:
?
You should try the EFRW sometime just laying on the
ground, or maybe laying across a rock.? I'll say again ... most of
the radiating from an AX1 comes from either the counterpoise or
the shield of the coax (if not using a common mode choke), and for
the majority of uses either of those are lying on or very near the
top of the ground.? The surface of most "ground" isn't an RF
ground, and if the soil is dry or fairly non-conductive the actual
RF ground is probably several feet below the surface.? Not sure
what the ground characteristic in the Orkneys is, though.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 12:18 PM, Dan N7CQR via
groups.io wrote:
I forgot to mention that I also carry a EFRW in my little bag,that
of course is more efficient than almost short loaded vertical.
Mine is Adam’s K6ARK clever design that incorporates a 9:1 balun
into the BNC connector. But you have to have either a tree or a
pole to toss it into. If you’ve been to the Orkneys you know that
there’s not many trees there…?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 11:22, Dan N7CQR via
groups.io <N7CQR@...> wrote:
?
It’s a matter of trade offs that each operator is willing to
make. No doubt that other larger antennas can be more
efficient,but how much are you willing to pack around? Last
summer I made a trip to the Orkney Islands,and you are
definitely limited in how much baggage you can bring on a very
small plane. . Wanting to get some radio time in,it’s an easy
decision to bring my small bag and still have room for
clothing and other essentials. And I successfully got on the
air with the AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one 45 minute
session. For me that’s a good trade off. ?Back home I use the
best antenna I can reasonably carry. Lately I’ve been using
the Chelegance MC 750 vertical which is a full 1/4 wave on
20-10 Meters with the KH1 and having excellent results. It
breaks down into a relatively small package-but still nothing
I’d ever fly or take a longer hike with. We have so many great
options these days.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
|
Except that the AX1 isn't enough of a vertical to
actually act like a short vertical.? If you model an AX1 and look
at the current distribution you will see that most of it is in the
counterpoise wire.? To be honest, the AX1 whip is mostly a
convenient lossy tank circuit to act as a counterpoise for the
counterpoise wire ... or in some case, the shield of the coax
feedline.
I know how to use EZNEC.? I've used it continually since 1993 or
so when it was still called ELNEC, and I'm actually a big fan of
vertical antennas for portable operation.? My choice, though, is
the Chameleon SS17 collapsible whip with elevated radials.? My
version weighs about 3.5 pounds ... with steel stakes ... and I
can set it up in less than ten minutes.
An an end fed wire doesn't have to be very far off the ground to
avoid being a worm warmer.? Why do you think elevated radials work
when they are only a foot or two off the ground??? I'm not
actually a big fan of end fed wire antennas, but for portable use
I don't think they can be beat for performance, size, weight, or
cost.? I wish I had an AX1 to compare against various alternatives
using WSPR, but I'm not willing to spend the money on one just to
prove my point.? Curiously, almost nobody who owns an AX1 has
bothered to do a similarly rigorous A-vs-B comparison either.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 2:44 PM, Dan N7CQR via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I’ve used this strategy on bare summits above 3-4000 feet with
some success. Unfortunately at sea level or low elevation you’re
just warming the earthworms. Any type of short vertical with an
elevated radial will provide a decent takeoff angle. You can model
this in EZNEC. A good resource for using short verticals
effectively are the writings of Jerry Severns for the ARRL Antenna
handbook or the website for antenna ‘guru’ LB Cebik.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 12:42, Dave AB7E via
groups.io <AB7Echo@...> wrote:
?
You should try the EFRW sometime just laying on
the ground, or maybe laying across a rock.? I'll say again
... most of the radiating from an AX1 comes from either the
counterpoise or the shield of the coax (if not using a
common mode choke), and for the majority of uses either of
those are lying on or very near the top of the ground.? The
surface of most "ground" isn't an RF ground, and if the soil
is dry or fairly non-conductive the actual RF ground is
probably several feet below the surface.? Not sure what the
ground characteristic in the Orkneys is, though.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 12:18 PM, Dan N7CQR
via groups.io wrote:
I forgot to mention that I also carry a EFRW in my little
bag,that of course is more efficient than almost short
loaded vertical. Mine is Adam’s K6ARK clever design that
incorporates a 9:1 balun into the BNC connector. But you
have to have either a tree or a pole to toss it into. If
you’ve been to the Orkneys you know that there’s not many
trees there…?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 11:22, Dan
N7CQR via groups.io <N7CQR@...>
wrote:
?
It’s a matter of trade offs that each operator is
willing to make. No doubt that other larger antennas can
be more efficient,but how much are you willing to pack
around? Last summer I made a trip to the Orkney
Islands,and you are definitely limited in how much
baggage you can bring on a very small plane. . Wanting
to get some radio time in,it’s an easy decision to bring
my small bag and still have room for clothing and other
essentials. And I successfully got on the air with the
AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one 45 minute session.
For me that’s a good trade off. ?Back home I use the
best antenna I can reasonably carry. Lately I’ve been
using the Chelegance MC 750 vertical which is a full 1/4
wave on 20-10 Meters with the KH1 and having excellent
results. It breaks down into a relatively small
package-but still nothing I’d ever fly or take a longer
hike with. We have so many great options these days.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
|
I forgot to include the link to the
SS17 whip:
The pictures in the first review are mine (Alice is my wife's
name).
Dave? AB7E
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Except that the AX1 isn't enough of a vertical to
actually act like a short vertical.? If you model an AX1 and
look at the current distribution you will see that most of it is
in the counterpoise wire.? To be honest, the AX1 whip is mostly
a convenient lossy tank circuit to act as a counterpoise for the
counterpoise wire ... or in some case, the shield of the coax
feedline.
I know how to use EZNEC.? I've used it continually since 1993 or
so when it was still called ELNEC, and I'm actually a big fan of
vertical antennas for portable operation.? My choice, though, is
the Chameleon SS17 collapsible whip with elevated radials.? My
version weighs about 3.5 pounds ... with steel stakes ... and I
can set it up in less than ten minutes.
An an end fed wire doesn't have to be very far off the ground to
avoid being a worm warmer.? Why do you think elevated radials
work when they are only a foot or two off the ground??? I'm not
actually a big fan of end fed wire antennas, but for portable
use I don't think they can be beat for performance, size,
weight, or cost.? I wish I had an AX1 to compare against various
alternatives using WSPR, but I'm not willing to spend the money
on one just to prove ... or disprove, if that should be the case
... my point.? Curiously, almost nobody who owns an AX1 has
bothered to do a similarly rigorous A-vs-B comparison either.?
Presumably, like you, they don't really care as long as "it
works".
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 2:44 PM, Dan N7CQR via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I’ve used this strategy on bare summits above 3-4000 feet with
some success. Unfortunately at sea level or low elevation you’re
just warming the earthworms. Any type of short vertical with an
elevated radial will provide a decent takeoff angle. You can
model this in EZNEC. A good resource for using short verticals
effectively are the writings of Jerry Severns for the ARRL
Antenna handbook or the website for antenna ‘guru’ LB Cebik.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 12:42, Dave AB7E
via groups.io <AB7Echo@...>
wrote:
?
You should try the EFRW sometime just laying
on the ground, or maybe laying across a rock.? I'll say
again ... most of the radiating from an AX1 comes from
either the counterpoise or the shield of the coax (if not
using a common mode choke), and for the majority of uses
either of those are lying on or very near the top of the
ground.? The surface of most "ground" isn't an RF ground,
and if the soil is dry or fairly non-conductive the actual
RF ground is probably several feet below the surface.? Not
sure what the ground characteristic in the Orkneys is,
though.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 12:18 PM, Dan
N7CQR via groups.io wrote:
I forgot to mention that I also carry a EFRW in my little
bag,that of course is more efficient than almost short
loaded vertical. Mine is Adam’s K6ARK clever design that
incorporates a 9:1 balun into the BNC connector. But you
have to have either a tree or a pole to toss it into. If
you’ve been to the Orkneys you know that there’s not many
trees there…?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 11:22, Dan
N7CQR via groups.io <N7CQR@...>
wrote:
?
It’s a matter of trade offs that each operator is
willing to make. No doubt that other larger antennas
can be more efficient,but how much are you willing to
pack around? Last summer I made a trip to the Orkney
Islands,and you are definitely limited in how much
baggage you can bring on a very small plane. . Wanting
to get some radio time in,it’s an easy decision to
bring my small bag and still have room for clothing
and other essentials. And I successfully got on the
air with the AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one 45
minute session. For me that’s a good trade off. ?Back
home I use the best antenna I can reasonably carry.
Lately I’ve been using the Chelegance MC 750 vertical
which is a full 1/4 wave on 20-10 Meters with the KH1
and having excellent results. It breaks down into a
relatively small package-but still nothing I’d ever
fly or take a longer hike with. We have so many great
options these days.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
|
Those are the same that MFJ used to sell before they went closed their doors. I use one for several HB antennas and it works very well alone. You can even base load one easily.? 73,? Mike n6zw
On 03/25/2025 3:28 PM PDT Dave AB7E via groups.io <ab7echo@...> wrote:
?
?
I forgot to include the link to the SS17 whip:
The pictures in the first review are mine (Alice is my wife's name).
Dave? AB7E
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Except that the AX1 isn't enough of a vertical to actually act like a short vertical.? If you model an AX1 and look at the current distribution you will see that most of it is in the counterpoise wire.? To be honest, the AX1 whip is mostly a convenient lossy tank circuit to act as a counterpoise for the counterpoise wire ... or in some case, the shield of the coax feedline.
I know how to use EZNEC.? I've used it continually since 1993 or so when it was still called ELNEC, and I'm actually a big fan of vertical antennas for portable operation.? My choice, though, is the Chameleon SS17 collapsible whip with elevated radials.? My version weighs about 3.5 pounds ... with steel stakes ... and I can set it up in less than ten minutes.
An an end fed wire doesn't have to be very far off the ground to avoid being a worm warmer.? Why do you think elevated radials work when they are only a foot or two off the ground??? I'm not actually a big fan of end fed wire antennas, but for portable use I don't think they can be beat for performance, size, weight, or cost.? I wish I had an AX1 to compare against various alternatives using WSPR, but I'm not willing to spend the money on one just to prove ... or disprove, if that should be the case ... my point.? Curiously, almost nobody who owns an AX1 has bothered to do a similarly rigorous A-vs-B comparison either.? Presumably, like you, they don't really care as long as "it works".
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 2:44 PM, Dan N7CQR via groups.io wrote:
I’ve used this strategy on bare summits above 3-4000 feet with some success. Unfortunately at sea level or low elevation you’re just warming the earthworms. Any type of short vertical with an elevated radial will provide a decent takeoff angle. You can model this in EZNEC. A good resource for using short verticals effectively are the writings of Jerry Severns for the ARRL Antenna handbook or the website for antenna ‘guru’ LB Cebik.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 12:42, Dave AB7E via groups.io <AB7Echo@...> wrote:
You should try the EFRW sometime just laying on the ground, or maybe laying across a rock.? I'll say again ... most of the radiating from an AX1 comes from either the counterpoise or the shield of the coax (if not using a common mode choke), and for the majority of uses either of those are lying on or very near the top of the ground.? The surface of most "ground" isn't an RF ground, and if the soil is dry or fairly non-conductive the actual RF ground is probably several feet below the surface.? Not sure what the ground characteristic in the Orkneys is, though.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 12:18 PM, Dan N7CQR via groups.io wrote:
I forgot to mention that I also carry a EFRW in my little bag,that of course is more efficient than almost short loaded vertical. Mine is Adam’s K6ARK clever design that incorporates a 9:1 balun into the BNC connector. But you have to have either a tree or a pole to toss it into. If you’ve been to the Orkneys you know that there’s not many trees there…?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 11:22, Dan N7CQR via groups.io <N7CQR@...> wrote:
It’s a matter of trade offs that each operator is willing to make. No doubt that other larger antennas can be more efficient,but how much are you willing to pack around? Last summer I made a trip to the Orkney Islands,and you are definitely limited in how much baggage you can bring on a very small plane. . Wanting to get some radio time in,it’s an easy decision to bring my small bag and still have room for clothing and other essentials. And I successfully got on the air with the AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one 45 minute session. For me that’s a good trade off. ?Back home I use the best antenna I can reasonably carry. Lately I’ve been using the Chelegance MC 750 vertical which is a full 1/4 wave on 20-10 Meters with the KH1 and having excellent results. It breaks down into a relatively small package-but still nothing I’d ever fly or take a longer hike with. We have so many great options these days.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
|
WRC makes decent whips too - though I don’t have a Chameleon to do a direct comparison,.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 25, 2025, at 3:39?PM, MIKE N6ZW via groups.io <n6zw@...> wrote:
Those are the same that MFJ used to sell before they went closed their doors. I use one for several HB antennas and it works very well alone. You can even base load one easily.? 73,? Mike n6zw
On 03/25/2025 3:28 PM PDT Dave AB7E via groups.io <ab7echo@...> wrote:
?
?
I forgot to include the link to the SS17 whip:
The pictures in the first review are mine (Alice is my wife's name).
Dave? AB7E
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Except that the AX1 isn't enough of a vertical to actually act like a short vertical.? If you model an AX1 and look at the current distribution you will see that most of it is in the counterpoise wire.? To be honest, the AX1 whip is mostly a convenient lossy tank circuit to act as a counterpoise for the counterpoise wire ... or in some case, the shield of the coax feedline.
I know how to use EZNEC.? I've used it continually since 1993 or so when it was still called ELNEC, and I'm actually a big fan of vertical antennas for portable operation.? My choice, though, is the Chameleon SS17 collapsible whip with elevated radials.? My version weighs about 3.5 pounds ... with steel stakes ... and I can set it up in less than ten minutes.
An an end fed wire doesn't have to be very far off the ground to avoid being a worm warmer.? Why do you think elevated radials work when they are only a foot or two off the ground??? I'm not actually a big fan of end fed wire antennas, but for portable use I don't think they can be beat for performance, size, weight, or cost.? I wish I had an AX1 to compare against various alternatives using WSPR, but I'm not willing to spend the money on one just to prove ... or disprove, if that should be the case ... my point.? Curiously, almost nobody who owns an AX1 has bothered to do a similarly rigorous A-vs-B comparison either.? Presumably, like you, they don't really care as long as "it works".
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 2:44 PM, Dan N7CQR via groups.io wrote:
I’ve used this strategy on bare summits above 3-4000 feet with some success. Unfortunately at sea level or low elevation you’re just warming the earthworms. Any type of short vertical with an elevated radial will provide a decent takeoff angle. You can model this in EZNEC. A good resource for using short verticals effectively are the writings of Jerry Severns for the ARRL Antenna handbook or the website for antenna ‘guru’ LB Cebik.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 12:42, Dave AB7E via groups.io <AB7Echo@...> wrote:
You should try the EFRW sometime just laying on the ground, or maybe laying across a rock.? I'll say again ... most of the radiating from an AX1 comes from either the counterpoise or the shield of the coax (if not using a common mode choke), and for the majority of uses either of those are lying on or very near the top of the ground.? The surface of most "ground" isn't an RF ground, and if the soil is dry or fairly non-conductive the actual RF ground is probably several feet below the surface.? Not sure what the ground characteristic in the Orkneys is, though.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 12:18 PM, Dan N7CQR via groups.io wrote:
I forgot to mention that I also carry a EFRW in my little bag,that of course is more efficient than almost short loaded vertical. Mine is Adam’s K6ARK clever design that incorporates a 9:1 balun into the BNC connector. But you have to have either a tree or a pole to toss it into. If you’ve been to the Orkneys you know that there’s not many trees there…?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 11:22, Dan N7CQR via groups.io <N7CQR@...> wrote:
It’s a matter of trade offs that each operator is willing to make. No doubt that other larger antennas can be more efficient,but how much are you willing to pack around? Last summer I made a trip to the Orkney Islands,and you are definitely limited in how much baggage you can bring on a very small plane. . Wanting to get some radio time in,it’s an easy decision to bring my small bag and still have room for clothing and other essentials. And I successfully got on the air with the AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one 45 minute session. For me that’s a good trade off. ?Back home I use the best antenna I can reasonably carry. Lately I’ve been using the Chelegance MC 750 vertical which is a full 1/4 wave on 20-10 Meters with the KH1 and having excellent results. It breaks down into a relatively small package-but still nothing I’d ever fly or take a longer hike with. We have so many great options these days.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
|
I have enjoyed this discussion.? ?Very well done!!
Doug
|
It is VERY similar, but MFJ sold a slightly weaker version that came
from China.? The Chameleon SS17 is made in the U.S. and is slightly
stronger.? There are minor differences in the dimensions.? There is
a YouTube video comparing the two if you're interested.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 3:39 PM, MIKE N6ZW via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Those are
the same that MFJ used to sell before they went closed their
doors. I use one for several HB antennas and it works very
well alone. You can even base load one easily.? 73,? Mike n6zw
On 03/25/2025 3:28 PM PDT Dave AB7E via groups.io
<ab7echo@...> wrote: ?
?
I forgot to include the link to
the SS17 whip:
The pictures in the first review are mine (Alice is my
wife's name).
Dave? AB7E
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Except that the AX1 isn't
enough of a vertical to actually act like a short vertical.?
If you model an AX1 and look at the current distribution you
will see that most of it is in the counterpoise wire.? To be
honest, the AX1 whip is mostly a convenient lossy tank
circuit to act as a counterpoise for the counterpoise wire
... or in some case, the shield of the coax feedline.
I know how to use EZNEC.? I've used it continually since
1993 or so when it was still called ELNEC, and I'm actually
a big fan of vertical antennas for portable operation.? My
choice, though, is the Chameleon SS17 collapsible whip with
elevated radials.? My version weighs about 3.5 pounds ...
with steel stakes ... and I can set it up in less than ten
minutes.
An an end fed wire doesn't have to be very far off the
ground to avoid being a worm warmer.? Why do you think
elevated radials work when they are only a foot or two off
the ground??? I'm not actually a big fan of end fed wire
antennas, but for portable use I don't think they can be
beat for performance, size, weight, or cost.? I wish I had
an AX1 to compare against various alternatives using WSPR,
but I'm not willing to spend the money on one just to prove
... or disprove, if that should be the case ... my point.?
Curiously, almost nobody who owns an AX1 has bothered to do
a similarly rigorous A-vs-B comparison either.? Presumably,
like you, they don't really care as long as "it works".
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 2:44 PM, Dan N7CQR
via groups.io wrote:
I’ve used this strategy on bare
summits above 3-4000 feet with some success. Unfortunately
at sea level or low elevation you’re just warming the
earthworms. Any type of short vertical with an elevated
radial will provide a decent takeoff angle. You can model
this in EZNEC. A good resource for using short verticals
effectively are the writings of Jerry Severns for the ARRL
Antenna handbook or the website for antenna ‘guru’ LB
Cebik.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 12:42, Dave
AB7E via groups.io <AB7Echo@...>
wrote:
You should try the EFRW
sometime just laying on the ground, or maybe laying
across a rock.? I'll say again ... most of the
radiating from an AX1 comes from either the
counterpoise or the shield of the coax (if not using a
common mode choke), and for the majority of uses
either of those are lying on or very near the top of
the ground.? The surface of most "ground" isn't an RF
ground, and if the soil is dry or fairly
non-conductive the actual RF ground is probably
several feet below the surface.? Not sure what the
ground characteristic in the Orkneys is, though.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 12:18 PM, Dan
N7CQR via groups.io wrote:
I forgot to mention that I also
carry a EFRW in my little bag,that of course is more
efficient than almost short loaded vertical. Mine is
Adam’s K6ARK clever design that incorporates a 9:1
balun into the BNC connector. But you have to have
either a tree or a pole to toss it into. If you’ve
been to the Orkneys you know that there’s not many
trees there…?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 11:22,
Dan N7CQR via groups.io <N7CQR@...>
wrote:
It’s a matter of trade offs that
each operator is willing to make. No doubt that
other larger antennas can be more efficient,but
how much are you willing to pack around? Last
summer I made a trip to the Orkney Islands,and you
are definitely limited in how much baggage you can
bring on a very small plane. . Wanting to get some
radio time in,it’s an easy decision to bring my
small bag and still have room for clothing and
other essentials. And I successfully got on the
air with the AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one
45 minute session. For me that’s a good trade off.
?Back home I use the best antenna I can reasonably
carry. Lately I’ve been using the Chelegance MC
750 vertical which is a full 1/4 wave on 20-10
Meters with the KH1 and having excellent results.
It breaks down into a relatively small package-but
still nothing I’d ever fly or take a longer hike
with. We have so many great options these days.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
|
? We can (and should) debate the relative merits of various antennas,but the bottom line is what compromises are you willing to accept? In my case being able to have very small and portable setup is worth it especially traveling to remote locations. I’m not doing a dxpedition but operating more casually. Not about to fill my luggage with a big heavy antenna. My choice. ?And guess what? For the past 9 years I’ve made many great contacts:SOTA,POTA,DX, S2S and P2P-all QRP CW and many times using the AX1 and now the KH1. And many of those I work are also QRP and portable. I’ve doing portable QRP since the late 1970’s so have a pretty good idea of what works and how to be successful. Lightweight portable QRP radio has become enormously popular with many new radios and antennas to choose from. ? And as they say, ‘buy once cry once’? Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com? N7CQR@...
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On Mar 25, 2025, at 16:55, Dave AB7E via groups.io <AB7Echo@...> wrote:
?
It is VERY similar, but MFJ sold a slightly weaker version that came
from China.? The Chameleon SS17 is made in the U.S. and is slightly
stronger.? There are minor differences in the dimensions.? There is
a YouTube video comparing the two if you're interested.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 3:39 PM, MIKE N6ZW via
groups.io wrote:
Those are
the same that MFJ used to sell before they went closed their
doors. I use one for several HB antennas and it works very
well alone. You can even base load one easily.? 73,? Mike n6zw
On 03/25/2025 3:28 PM PDT Dave AB7E via groups.io
<ab7echo@...> wrote: ?
?
I forgot to include the link to
the SS17 whip:
The pictures in the first review are mine (Alice is my
wife's name).
Dave? AB7E
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Except that the AX1 isn't
enough of a vertical to actually act like a short vertical.?
If you model an AX1 and look at the current distribution you
will see that most of it is in the counterpoise wire.? To be
honest, the AX1 whip is mostly a convenient lossy tank
circuit to act as a counterpoise for the counterpoise wire
... or in some case, the shield of the coax feedline.
I know how to use EZNEC.? I've used it continually since
1993 or so when it was still called ELNEC, and I'm actually
a big fan of vertical antennas for portable operation.? My
choice, though, is the Chameleon SS17 collapsible whip with
elevated radials.? My version weighs about 3.5 pounds ...
with steel stakes ... and I can set it up in less than ten
minutes.
An an end fed wire doesn't have to be very far off the
ground to avoid being a worm warmer.? Why do you think
elevated radials work when they are only a foot or two off
the ground??? I'm not actually a big fan of end fed wire
antennas, but for portable use I don't think they can be
beat for performance, size, weight, or cost.? I wish I had
an AX1 to compare against various alternatives using WSPR,
but I'm not willing to spend the money on one just to prove
... or disprove, if that should be the case ... my point.?
Curiously, almost nobody who owns an AX1 has bothered to do
a similarly rigorous A-vs-B comparison either.? Presumably,
like you, they don't really care as long as "it works".
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 2:44 PM, Dan N7CQR
via groups.io wrote:
I’ve used this strategy on bare
summits above 3-4000 feet with some success. Unfortunately
at sea level or low elevation you’re just warming the
earthworms. Any type of short vertical with an elevated
radial will provide a decent takeoff angle. You can model
this in EZNEC. A good resource for using short verticals
effectively are the writings of Jerry Severns for the ARRL
Antenna handbook or the website for antenna ‘guru’ LB
Cebik.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 12:42, Dave
AB7E via groups.io <AB7Echo@...>
wrote:
You should try the EFRW
sometime just laying on the ground, or maybe laying
across a rock.? I'll say again ... most of the
radiating from an AX1 comes from either the
counterpoise or the shield of the coax (if not using a
common mode choke), and for the majority of uses
either of those are lying on or very near the top of
the ground.? The surface of most "ground" isn't an RF
ground, and if the soil is dry or fairly
non-conductive the actual RF ground is probably
several feet below the surface.? Not sure what the
ground characteristic in the Orkneys is, though.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 12:18 PM, Dan
N7CQR via groups.io wrote:
I forgot to mention that I also
carry a EFRW in my little bag,that of course is more
efficient than almost short loaded vertical. Mine is
Adam’s K6ARK clever design that incorporates a 9:1
balun into the BNC connector. But you have to have
either a tree or a pole to toss it into. If you’ve
been to the Orkneys you know that there’s not many
trees there…?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 11:22,
Dan N7CQR via groups.io <N7CQR@...>
wrote:
It’s a matter of trade offs that
each operator is willing to make. No doubt that
other larger antennas can be more efficient,but
how much are you willing to pack around? Last
summer I made a trip to the Orkney Islands,and you
are definitely limited in how much baggage you can
bring on a very small plane. . Wanting to get some
radio time in,it’s an easy decision to bring my
small bag and still have room for clothing and
other essentials. And I successfully got on the
air with the AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one
45 minute session. For me that’s a good trade off.
?Back home I use the best antenna I can reasonably
carry. Lately I’ve been using the Chelegance MC
750 vertical which is a full 1/4 wave on 20-10
Meters with the KH1 and having excellent results.
It breaks down into a relatively small package-but
still nothing I’d ever fly or take a longer hike
with. We have so many great options these days.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
|
I forgot to answer one question…since I’m 6’7 and almost always using the KH1 standing,the radial(s) are much more than a‘foot or two’ off the ground ?.? Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com? N7CQR@...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 25, 2025, at 17:54, Dan N7CQR via groups.io <N7CQR@...> wrote:
? ? We can (and should) debate the relative merits of various antennas,but the bottom line is what compromises are you willing to accept? In my case being able to have very small and portable setup is worth it especially traveling to remote locations. I’m not doing a dxpedition but operating more casually. Not about to fill my luggage with a big heavy antenna. My choice. ?And guess what? For the past 9 years I’ve made many great contacts:SOTA,POTA,DX, S2S and P2P-all QRP CW and many times using the AX1 and now the KH1. And many of those I work are also QRP and portable. I’ve doing portable QRP since the late 1970’s so have a pretty good idea of what works and how to be successful. Lightweight portable QRP radio has become enormously popular with many new radios and antennas to choose from. ? And as they say, ‘buy once cry once’? Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com? N7CQR@...
On Mar 25, 2025, at 16:55, Dave AB7E via groups.io <AB7Echo@...> wrote:
?
It is VERY similar, but MFJ sold a slightly weaker version that came
from China.? The Chameleon SS17 is made in the U.S. and is slightly
stronger.? There are minor differences in the dimensions.? There is
a YouTube video comparing the two if you're interested.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 3:39 PM, MIKE N6ZW via
groups.io wrote:
Those are
the same that MFJ used to sell before they went closed their
doors. I use one for several HB antennas and it works very
well alone. You can even base load one easily.? 73,? Mike n6zw
On 03/25/2025 3:28 PM PDT Dave AB7E via groups.io
<ab7echo@...> wrote: ?
?
I forgot to include the link to
the SS17 whip:
The pictures in the first review are mine (Alice is my
wife's name).
Dave? AB7E
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Except that the AX1 isn't
enough of a vertical to actually act like a short vertical.?
If you model an AX1 and look at the current distribution you
will see that most of it is in the counterpoise wire.? To be
honest, the AX1 whip is mostly a convenient lossy tank
circuit to act as a counterpoise for the counterpoise wire
... or in some case, the shield of the coax feedline.
I know how to use EZNEC.? I've used it continually since
1993 or so when it was still called ELNEC, and I'm actually
a big fan of vertical antennas for portable operation.? My
choice, though, is the Chameleon SS17 collapsible whip with
elevated radials.? My version weighs about 3.5 pounds ...
with steel stakes ... and I can set it up in less than ten
minutes.
An an end fed wire doesn't have to be very far off the
ground to avoid being a worm warmer.? Why do you think
elevated radials work when they are only a foot or two off
the ground??? I'm not actually a big fan of end fed wire
antennas, but for portable use I don't think they can be
beat for performance, size, weight, or cost.? I wish I had
an AX1 to compare against various alternatives using WSPR,
but I'm not willing to spend the money on one just to prove
... or disprove, if that should be the case ... my point.?
Curiously, almost nobody who owns an AX1 has bothered to do
a similarly rigorous A-vs-B comparison either.? Presumably,
like you, they don't really care as long as "it works".
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 2:44 PM, Dan N7CQR
via groups.io wrote:
I’ve used this strategy on bare
summits above 3-4000 feet with some success. Unfortunately
at sea level or low elevation you’re just warming the
earthworms. Any type of short vertical with an elevated
radial will provide a decent takeoff angle. You can model
this in EZNEC. A good resource for using short verticals
effectively are the writings of Jerry Severns for the ARRL
Antenna handbook or the website for antenna ‘guru’ LB
Cebik.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 12:42, Dave
AB7E via groups.io <AB7Echo@...>
wrote:
You should try the EFRW
sometime just laying on the ground, or maybe laying
across a rock.? I'll say again ... most of the
radiating from an AX1 comes from either the
counterpoise or the shield of the coax (if not using a
common mode choke), and for the majority of uses
either of those are lying on or very near the top of
the ground.? The surface of most "ground" isn't an RF
ground, and if the soil is dry or fairly
non-conductive the actual RF ground is probably
several feet below the surface.? Not sure what the
ground characteristic in the Orkneys is, though.
Dave?? AB7E
On 3/25/2025 12:18 PM, Dan
N7CQR via groups.io wrote:
I forgot to mention that I also
carry a EFRW in my little bag,that of course is more
efficient than almost short loaded vertical. Mine is
Adam’s K6ARK clever design that incorporates a 9:1
balun into the BNC connector. But you have to have
either a tree or a pole to toss it into. If you’ve
been to the Orkneys you know that there’s not many
trees there…?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
On Mar 25, 2025, at 11:22,
Dan N7CQR via groups.io <N7CQR@...>
wrote:
It’s a matter of trade offs that
each operator is willing to make. No doubt that
other larger antennas can be more efficient,but
how much are you willing to pack around? Last
summer I made a trip to the Orkney Islands,and you
are definitely limited in how much baggage you can
bring on a very small plane. . Wanting to get some
radio time in,it’s an easy decision to bring my
small bag and still have room for clothing and
other essentials. And I successfully got on the
air with the AX1 at 5W. Worked 10 countries in one
45 minute session. For me that’s a good trade off.
?Back home I use the best antenna I can reasonably
carry. Lately I’ve been using the Chelegance MC
750 vertical which is a full 1/4 wave on 20-10
Meters with the KH1 and having excellent results.
It breaks down into a relatively small package-but
still nothing I’d ever fly or take a longer hike
with. We have so many great options these days.?
Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com?
?
|
On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 10:37 AM, Scott KA9P wrote:
I'm not anti-AX1 or Elecraft, God knows Wayne has enough of my money.? But it would be fun to see a Super AX-1A that is more efficient, easily packed and exploits the superb tuner in the KX2 to its maximum benefit., I might have to part with more money then. :)
My packable go-anywhere antenna is the Gabil GRA-7350TC (available on Amazon).? It is perhaps best-described as a small manual-screwdriver-type antenna with a removeable telescopic whip. When assembled it is about 7 feet long (i.e. Hamstick sized) but it packs into a sleeve (I use a Soprano recorder case) only 13 inches long which fits nicely either inside my daypack or in the mesh water bottle pocket on the outside of the pack.? The base has 3/8-24 threads so it can be used with any 3/8" mount but it is best paired with the absolutely tiny but highly functional companion Gabil GRA-ULT01 Tripod.? This is the smallest packing functional antenna tripod I have even seen.? When packed up it is about 4 inches in diameter and about 6 inches long. The antenna covers 40m through 6m and the the tuning granularity on the telescopic coil is fine enough that I always just extend the whip fully for HF and tune via the the coil. The newest version has the graduated tuning scale laser etched for longevity.?
I use this primarily as a vacation antenna, along with my KH1 or KX2 for those times when I want a little better performance than the AX1 delivers, so I guess it sort of fits the function of a "super-AX1A".?
?
FWIW, the build quality of the Gabil components is excellent. I also have the optional Gabil shock-corded? whip which is physically a bit longer than the telescopic whip when when deployed, but also doesn't pack quite as small.? Its certainly more rugged than the telescopic whip.??I have a few other friends who also have the Gabil and agree that for the size it is versatile and performs quite well as a portable antenna or on a mobile antenna mount for stationary mobile operating.?
?
Cheers
?
Michael VE3WMB?
?
P.S. Having 3/8-24 threading at the base means that this antenna can also be extended with Buddipole (or other antenna parts). I normally operate my Gabil with a short arm (11 inches) designed for the Buddistick to move the coil up from the base of the antenna to improve efficiency slightly.? The short arm fits into the recorder case along with the coil and whip.?
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Doug, I too am enjoying this thread. Do you have a reference for the HB vertical, how it is used/connected, or is it a QRPGuys design? I am always looking for antennas to play with, test and experiment with.?
I am cheap, ie a ham, so bought a used, well priced KX2 that came with an AX1. It has become my favorite POTA activation rig right now, 99% on CW. Set up less than 5 minutes. Most activations when in a bit of a hurry less than 30 minutes. Practical experience indicates that counterpoise placement is important, usually with the radio on the hood of my truck with the counterpoise draped across it. Antenna directly connected to the radio using a printed antenna support.?
When backpacking a lot, I was one of those guys that cut the handle off my toothbrush for efficiency. Weight isn’t as much of an issue today, but bulk is. Doug, I have put together my version of a vertical that will connect directly to the radio. It works, but not much better than the AX1, if at all. Again, almost only CW. Bicycle or walking portable is common.?
72
john, NS6X?
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Nick G4IWO
Matt N3AR