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'Alfa-Bravo-Charlie' = Old? Obsolete?


 

It Might Be Time to Update
the Old 'Alfa-Bravo-Charlie' Spelling Alphabet
But it's hard to break old habits.
BY DAN NOSOWITZ
JULY 12, 2019



"Voice call quality has come down in the last two decades.
... Most importantly, they have dropped the emphasis
on voice call quality..."

73,
Ron McConnell
w2iol


Eric KE6US
 

Interesting article. I haven't worked a voice mode in more than 30 years and barely before that so it doesn't come up on the air for me. But it's a common problem on the cell phone. If I use the ICAO alphabet, it's no better for most people than just spelling the letters. Unexpected words like Tango and Foxtrot cause more confusion than it solves.

I tend to use short common names when I can. Tom, Dick, Mary. I usually have better luck if I include the letter "T as in Tom" or they stop listening at Tom and I become Tom to them. I sometimes use common Hispanic names in this area (So Cal). Whatever it takes, but the ICAO versions are generally worthless for me on the phone. I only use it when I'm around other hams or they look at me like I'm an idiot.

Eric KE6US

On 7/18/2019 1:47 PM, Ronald McConnell wrote:
It Might Be Time to Update
the Old 'Alfa-Bravo-Charlie' Spelling Alphabet
But it's hard to break old habits.
BY DAN NOSOWITZ
JULY 12, 2019



"Voice call quality has come down in the last two decades.
... Most importantly, they have dropped the emphasis
on voice call quality..."

73,
Ron McConnell
w2iol





 

I have come to expect NATO standards amount my Military, Pilot and somewhat around our Ham radio friends (except the contesters that insist they know better) :-)

Where I am surprised from time to time is amount call centre millennials using proper NATO phonetics, and this is absolutely the case in anything adjacent to the Aviation industry, like those booking flights. Warms my heart to see consistency to a standard!

/r

On Jul 18, 2019, at 19:17, Eric KE6US <eric.csuf@...> wrote:

Interesting article. I haven't worked a voice mode in more than 30 years and barely before that so it doesn't come up on the air for me. But it's a common problem on the cell phone. If I use the ICAO alphabet, it's no better for most people than just spelling the letters. Unexpected words like Tango and Foxtrot cause more confusion than it solves.

I tend to use short common names when I can. Tom, Dick, Mary. I usually have better luck if I include the letter "T as in Tom" or they stop listening at Tom and I become Tom to them. I sometimes use common Hispanic names in this area (So Cal). Whatever it takes, but the ICAO versions are generally worthless for me on the phone. I only use it when I'm around other hams or they look at me like I'm an idiot.

Eric KE6US

On 7/18/2019 1:47 PM, Ronald McConnell wrote:
It Might Be Time to Update
the Old 'Alfa-Bravo-Charlie' Spelling Alphabet
But it's hard to break old habits.
BY DAN NOSOWITZ
JULY 12, 2019



"Voice call quality has come down in the last two decades.
... Most importantly, they have dropped the emphasis
on voice call quality..."

73,
Ron McConnell
w2iol





 

Hi,

Not so long ago I copied a a U,S. ham in a DX contest trying to complete a QSO with a European ham. I could hear both sides of the QSO loud and clear. But the two stations weren't enjoying reception that good. The U.S. ham was trying to get his callsign across to the European ham using the phonetics. The Dx fellow would then come back with at least one letter wrong to try and confirm. The Yank then tried again but decided to make up some different phonetics for the next attempt. That only further confused the Dx ham. The U.S ham made several attempts and changed the alphabet each time. The DX finally gave up.

That U.S. ham sounded like the proverbial monkey and the football. I just shook my head in disbelieve while rolling on the floor laughing. By the way, it turns out there is no such thing as "common spelling". Our phonetic alphabet evolved over a number of decades out of necessity with high stakes and proved to be the most reliable. So it stands today. Anything else is just so much gibberish.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 7/18/19 9:08 PM, Rod, VA3ON wrote:
I have come to expect NATO standards amount my Military, Pilot and somewhat around our Ham radio friends (except the contesters that insist they know better) :-)
Where I am surprised from time to time is amount call centre millennials using proper NATO phonetics, and this is absolutely the case in anything adjacent to the Aviation industry, like those booking flights. Warms my heart to see consistency to a standard!
/r
On Jul 18, 2019, at 19:17, Eric KE6US <eric.csuf@...> wrote:
Interesting article. I haven't worked a voice mode in more than 30 years and barely before that so it doesn't come up on the air for me. But it's a common problem on the cell phone. If I use the ICAO alphabet, it's no better for most people than just spelling the letters. Unexpected words like Tango and Foxtrot cause more confusion than it solves.
I tend to use short common names when I can. Tom, Dick, Mary. I usually have better luck if I include the letter "T as in Tom" or they stop listening at Tom and I become Tom to them. I sometimes use common Hispanic names in this area (So Cal). Whatever it takes, but the ICAO versions are generally worthless for me on the phone. I only use it when I'm around other hams or they look at me like I'm an idiot.
Eric KE6US

On 7/18/2019 1:47 PM, Ronald McConnell wrote:
It Might Be Time to Update
the Old 'Alfa-Bravo-Charlie' Spelling Alphabet
But it's hard to break old habits.
BY DAN NOSOWITZ
JULY 12, 2019



"Voice call quality has come down in the last two decades.
... Most importantly, they have dropped the emphasis
on voice call quality..."

73,
Ron McConnell
w2iol




--
bark less - wag more


 

On our SSB medical network in Africa, some colleagues would not
use "Whiskey" - for abstinence reasons! The NATO alphabet is the
still most used and least confusing once learnt. It is also used in
business on the phone to confirm names, postcodes, order codes etc.
Some changes might well improve intelligibility in the new global
world, but less standardisation would create more confusion.

Learn it and leave it!

Michael 2E0IHW
.........................
Not so long ago I copied a a U,S. ham in a DX contest trying to complete a QSO with a European ham.
...
The U.S ham made several attempts and changed the alphabet each time. The DX finally gave up.
...
Our phonetic alphabet evolved over a number of decades out of necessity with high stakes and proved to be the most reliable. So it stands today. Anything else is just so much gibberish.
73,
Bill? KU8H
---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr¨¹ft.


 

My wife once spelled her name to a call center using the NATO alphabet. And lo and behold: she received a letter addressed to Mrs. Tango Oscar November ;-)
73, Wim


Henrik Stenstrom
 

Simply for your lighthearted amusement ...



de VK2HHS

On 19 Jul 2019, at 17:07, blumu via Groups.Io <blumu@...> wrote:

On our SSB medical network in Africa, some colleagues would not
use "Whiskey" - for abstinence reasons! The NATO alphabet is the
still most used and least confusing once learnt. It is also used in
business on the phone to confirm names, postcodes, order codes etc.
Some changes might well improve intelligibility in the new global
world, but less standardisation would create more confusion.

Learn it and leave it!

Michael 2E0IHW
.........................
Not so long ago I copied a a U,S. ham in a DX contest trying to complete a QSO with a European ham.
...
The U.S ham made several attempts and changed the alphabet each time. The DX finally gave up.
...
Our phonetic alphabet evolved over a number of decades out of necessity with high stakes and proved to be the most reliable. So it stands today. Anything else is just so much gibberish.
73,
Bill KU8H
---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr¨¹ft.





k6whp
 

Recommend going with:

A = Aisle
B = Bdellium
C = Czar
D = Djibouti
E = Euphrates
F = Fjord
G = Gnome
H = Herb
I = Isle
J = Jalapeno
K = Knee
L = Lladro
M = Mnemonic
N = Ngabu
O = Ouija Board
P = Pneumonia
Q = Qatar
R = Rwanda
S = Sphygmomanometer
T = Tsunami
U = Uvula
V = Vraisemblance
W = Wrinkle
X = Xylophone
Y = Ypsilanti
Z = Zlotys

..should clear thing sup.
--
William, K6WHP
"Cheer up, things could get worse..so I cheered up and, sure enough, things got worse!"


 

Mighty clever! Had we used this jpg table in WW2
the eavesdropping German Abwehr would have struggled :-)

Michael 2E0IHW

On 19/07/2019 14:43, Henrik Stenstrom wrote:
Simply for your lighthearted amusement ...



de VK2HHS
On 19 Jul 2019, at 17:07, blumu via Groups.Io <blumu@...> wrote:

On our SSB medical network in Africa, some colleagues would not
use "Whiskey" - for abstinence reasons! The NATO alphabet is the
still most used and least confusing once learnt. It is also used in
business on the phone to confirm names, postcodes, order codes etc.
Some changes might well improve intelligibility in the new global
world, but less standardisation would create more confusion.

Learn it and leave it!

Michael 2E0IHW
.........................
Not so long ago I copied a a U,S. ham in a DX contest trying to complete a QSO with a European ham.
...
The U.S ham made several attempts and changed the alphabet each time. The DX finally gave up.
...
Our phonetic alphabet evolved over a number of decades out of necessity with high stakes and proved to be the most reliable. So it stands today. Anything else is just so much gibberish.
73,
Bill KU8H
---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr¨¹ft.


 

They drilled this phonetic stuff into us at the nuke plant.

"What safety channel are you talking about?"
"Bravo!"
"Aw shucks, it was nothing."

73--

Nick, WA5BDU

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 10:00 AM k6whp <k6whp@...> wrote:

Recommend going with:

A = Aisle
B = Bdellium
C = Czar
D = Djibouti
E = Euphrates
F = Fjord
G = Gnome
H = Herb
I = Isle
J = Jalapeno
K = Knee
L = Lladro
M = Mnemonic
N = Ngabu
O = Ouija Board
P = Pneumonia
Q = Qatar
R = Rwanda
S = Sphygmomanometer
T = Tsunami
U = Uvula
V = Vraisemblance
W = Wrinkle
X = Xylophone
Y = Ypsilanti
Z = Zlotys

..should clear thing sup.
--
William, K6WHP
"Cheer up, things could get worse..so I cheered up and, sure enough,
things got worse!"




 

There has been, still is, some good discussion
about phonetic alphabets on the groups.

Please forgive me when I can't resist posting
the following lists.

The English Alphabet
In Alphabetic Order
Aitch
Are
Ay
Bee
Cue
Dee
Double-You
Ee
Ef
El
Em
En
Ess
Ex
Eye
Gee
Jay
Kay
Oh
Pea
See
Tee
Vee
Wy
You
Zee

English numbers
In Alphabetic Order:
Eight
Five
Four
Nine
One
Seven
Six
Three
Two
Zero

Back to the more informative discussion.

73,
Ron McConnell
w2iol


Doug Hendricks
 

You can always tell when Chuck is busy.


 

On 2019-07-19 3:29 p.m., Ronald McConnell wrote:
...(snip)...
The English Alphabet
In Alphabetic Order
Aitch
Are
Ay
Bee
Cue
Dee
Double-You
Ee
Ef
El
Em
En
Ess
Ex
Eye
Gee
Jay
...(snip)...


Depends upon where (and to some extent who) you are. I've heard the name of the eighth letter of the alphabet pronounced "Haitch". For those who pronounce it that way, instead of as "Aitch", it moves from the beginning of the list down to between "Gee" and "Jay".

See <>.

More seriously, for those who use 'phone and have trouble getting others to understand their phonetics, how about saying the letters in Morse code: DitDah, DahDiDiDit, DahDiDahDit, DahDiDit, ... ? You can do the numbers in your call that way too. If the other person knows Morse code that solves the problem of not recognizing the words Alfa, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, ... .

David VE7EZM and AF7BZ but I won't sound them out that way here


 

Doug,

You are right, but I just came in from the lab and
this thread is hereby terminated.

Everyone that posts the continuation of this silly
thread will be moderated for a year.? This will
significantly slow down the offending individuals
posts if not terminate them.

Back to technical subjects please.

chuck, k7qo, grumpy moderator

On 7/19/19 3:59 PM, Doug Hendricks wrote:
You can always tell when Chuck is busy.