Re: A coil winding machine
LoL! I was looking at the supplied bobbin holder and thinking "that won't make a Christmas tree choke". Do you have a photo of the setup for such?
Nothing like hand power for rapid response to a wire misfeed.
But the basic mechanism is sound and well made. It just needs some "accessories". For the price I'm extremely pleased.
The photo shows the bobbin holder. For the OP's project a live chuck on the RHS and a driven chuck on the LHS would clamp any leaded form properly (in photo, not machine). I plan to make such because the idea of making AF resonant circuits by winding "oh too fine" wire around capacitors is very appealing.
The cheaper winding machines require hand feeding and simply are not practical for more than 100 turns.
Have Fun!
Reg
On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 03:58:33 PM CST, Froggie the Gremlin <jonpaul@...> wrote:
Pi chokes use a universal wdg to minimize shunt C and need "shoes" or sheaves to hold pi in place till varnished.
In 1950s a mechancal winder was made for such use, no motor, hand crank.
Those still appear at ham fleas on occasion.
Jon
|
Re: A coil winding machine
Pi chokes use a universal wdg to minimize shunt C and need "shoes" or sheaves to hold pi in place till varnished.
In 1950s a mechancal winder was made for such use, no motor, hand crank.
Those still appear at ham fleas on occasion.
Jon
|
Re: A coil winding machine
The eBay coil winder arrived today and I'm really pleased. I'm sure there will be issues learning to set it up properly as the "manual" is 1/2 page of text, but for the price I'm quite delighted. A lot less time consumed than building the Gingery machine.
The wire translation screw has right and left hand threads and at the limit of travel switches the half nut from one side to the other.
I'll need to make a bunch of different spindle fixtures to increase the range of coils it will wind, but the design and manufacture are very good. My sole concern is the maximum wire size is stated as 24 AWG which is a bit small even for a 5 W QRP loading coil. It looks to me as if it would handle 14-18 AWG with modest effort.
I'm feeling a strong urge to do a retro project such as a salt box coil for a crystal set with cat's whisker, etc.
Have Fun!
Reg
|
Re: A coil winding machine
ROFL!
I forgot to mention that dead CD/DVD drives are perfect for moving the wire feed.
So the choice is:
Spend money on COTS
or
Acquire Arduino embedded system skills at 5th grade level
Which is best depends upon personal context and schedule. The latter is always the better course, but sometimes other factors dominate.
I'm very interested in the idea of winding inductors for op amp feedback on axial capacitors at AF.
Need to do some turns and wire size calculations...
Have Fun!
Reg
Sigh...
I just bought one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/111618691372
On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 08:38:28 PM CST, gren <hrgerson@...> wrote:
Thank you Reg, Jon and others,
? Apologies, have not come to any conclusions yet:
There seems to be all sorts of coil winders on eBay at an affordable price range of $30 to $100, which is the ballpark for this project.
??? I have not yet decided how elaborate a contraption might suit needs.
Clearly an inexpensive manual unit with a Veeder Root counter could be powered with a stepper motor, and yet the ~ $100 more modern unit below might suffice.
The original? principal interest was for winding some 50 small Rf chokes on 1 Meg 1/2W resistor forms,
??????? but the simple controlled mechanical ability now leads to??? dreams about winding? a few HV transformer replacements for other repairs, etc.
?? Undecided, still thinking about this ....
e.g.)
thank you
|
Re: A coil winding machine
Thank you Reg, Jon and others,
? Apologies, have not come to any conclusions yet:
There seems to be all sorts of coil winders on eBay at an affordable price range of $30 to $100, which is the ballpark for this project.
??? I have not yet decided how elaborate a contraption might suit needs.
Clearly an inexpensive manual unit with a Veeder Root counter could be powered with a stepper motor, and yet the ~ $100 more modern unit below might suffice.
The original? principal interest was for winding some 50 small Rf chokes on 1 Meg 1/2W resistor forms,
??????? but the simple controlled mechanical ability now leads to??? dreams about winding? a few HV transformer replacements for other repairs, etc.
?? Undecided, still thinking about this ....
e.g.)
thank you
|
Re: A coil winding machine
We bought the excellait Adams-Maxwell machines, for $300..850 in USA.
Look for used machines in EU from Micafil, Switzerland
Jon
|
Questions via PM on list topics
Just?so?we?are?all?clear?on?this.??If?anyone?sends?me?a?technical?query?related?to?a?list?topic?to?which?I?reply,?I?will likely?post?the?query?and?my?reply?to?the?list?as?received?on?the?presumption?that?the?PM?was?accidental?rather?than?deliberate.??This?is?common?practice?on?several?mailing?lists?to?which?I?subscribe.????Please?post?to?the?list,?rather?than?email?me?personally?unless?it?is?actually?a?personal?matter.
Have?Fun!
Reg
|
Rick,
Replying to the list as I want to capture this in the archive.
First thought is build a coil winder.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/382128211265
I just ordered a copy. It's one of the few Gingery books I don't recall buying. Dave explained concepts well, so it's worth the money even if you don't copy the machine.
That should give you a sound grasp of the mechanical design. Add an MCU, rotation and translation to position the wire and you'll easily have perfect coils. However, if you're going to wind 40 AWG you'll need a very precise electromagnetic brake to properly tension the wire.
Consider using a pair of hand tighten drill chucks mounted facing each other with common drive to both spindles to hold axial parts. The drill chucks are dumpster dive stuff. Turn it under MCU control while moving the wire feed back and forth to lay down an ideal winding. The MCU already knows how many turns it's made.
To make such a machine, obtain a pair of junk drill motors, disassemble so you have the shaft and bearing supports inside the otherwise empty housing. Make sure you take them apart, clean them and put them back together with proper lubrication. Then clamp the chucks on a short piece of 1/4" drill rod.
Make a wire mount that will hold the drills by the handles while you let concrete harden to permanently secure the drills. Then remove the temporary mount and the drill rod. Your winding spindle is ready. Cut holes in the drill housing for belt clearance and use a common shaft and two belts to drive the spindles under computer control.
Then add steppers or DC motors and a Hall effect sensor, screw or belt drives and wire tensioning. A junk ink jet printer is perfect for the translation of the wire feed.
I'd also like to suggest including an airbrush spraying polyurethane as the layers are put down. At the end of a layer, spray the layer for a single turn. This will bond the winding very firmly.
This is all basic Arduino sketch stuff. Age 8 and up ;-) It's really quite cool. I'd sneered at it for a long time, but it's a very useful inexpensive tool for solving problems such as yours. Low mental overhead. There are so many sketches for the Arduino out there it's impossible to keep track.
A custom winding machine requires taking bits from several of the most basic tutorials in an Elegoo Starter kit and combining them.
I have some junk drill motors and was wondering what to do with them. I now know. Thanks!
Have Fun!
Reg On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 02:52:53 PM CST, gren <hrgerson@...> wrote:
hi Reg,
Good job on your jig !
?Wondering if you have some thoughts ?
??? I need to make dozens ( say 60 )? of my own Rf chokes wound on? 1meg 1/2W resistor forms.
There need to be a consistent # of turns, Counted, about 1100 to 2000 turns of #20 to #40 copper enameled magnet wire.
I don't want to buy a Coil winding / counting turning machine...
My (likely stupid)? Mk I? idea is:
Was thinking about using a drill or Dremel tool, a Varaic to control the speed and a double Chuck mandrill with an HP Rotary Encoder on one end.
Having the rotary encoder connected to a Freq. Counter to count pulses should translate into revolutions & thus # of turns.
Using a variac + a Speed controlled Dremel tool might make it slow enough to do the Rf choke windings in controlled manner
by moving the freely spinning Cu bobbin from Left to right to Left until the correct # of turns has been reached.
Do you have any better ideas ??
thanks,
rick
|
Re: A fixture for making multifilar windings
Jon,
I am not interested in debating the merits of whether to use twisted or not. The sole purpose of this thread is to demonstrate the mechanism I built for making custom parallel windings.
Sometimes this matters and sometimes it doesn't.
I have *ZERO *interest in *MY WAY IS BETTER*. Absolutely do not care at all. All I have tried to do is document a technique I find useful which is also simple and inexpensive for one off projects.
Lutherie meets electronics.
Have Fun!
Reg
On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 05:52:32 PM CST, Froggie the Gremlin <jonpaul@...> wrote:
Reginald here is the bifilar wire in our stock, 2X#29 solderable magnet wire twisted pair, and 2X #30 Kynar.
These are used in many bifilar chokes, toroid's, etc.
Twists minimize CM emission.
Jon
|
Re: A fixture for making multifilar windings
Reginald here is the bifilar wire in our stock, 2X#29 solderable magnet wire twisted pair, and 2X #30 Kynar.
These are used in many bifilar chokes, toroid's, etc.
Twists minimize CM emission.
Jon
|
Re: A fixture for making multifilar windings
That is the photo on the cover of the 5th ed.
I already have a complete stock of single filament magnet wire. For a hobby user buying rolls of multifilar wire doesn't make sense given the ease of making my own to order.
Especially given that I can change wire sizes at will for a single winding. So a 6 strand primary with 2 secondaries of lighter gauge is easy to make.
On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 03:59:40 PM CST, Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote:
Interesting. That appears to be exactly the same photo as is on the cover of Jerry Sevick's book on baluns and ununs.
DaveD
On Feb 17, 2024, at 16:19, Reginald Beardsley via groups.io <pulaskite@...> wrote:
? This is the cover photo which prompted developing a way of making flat multifilar windings. There is not a single example or any discussion of twisted windings in the book. If you have citations comparing the two methods I'd be very interested.
Rather obviously both the inductive and capacitive coupling will be different for the two methods.
Have Fun!
Reg
On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 02:30:05 PM CST, Froggie the Gremlin <jonpaul@...> wrote:
Hello again
Bunched or twisted wires are used in magnetics as a low cost more practical alternative to Litz wire. Depend on the frequency and current density, the difference between bunched and litz may be slight.
Certain winding? designs indeed use a bifillar pair to minimize leakage inductance.
In decades of magnetics I have never used multiple wires that laid parallel. in production it's impossible to maintain the lay.
Rubudue and MWS make Litz and bunched wire, they may have an app note comparison.
Bon courage
Jon
<IMG_4341.JPG>
|
Re: A fixture for making multifilar windings
Interesting. That appears to be exactly the same photo as is on the cover of Jerry Sevick's book on baluns and ununs.
DaveD
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 17, 2024, at 16:19, Reginald Beardsley via groups.io <pulaskite@...> wrote:
? This is the cover photo which prompted developing a way of making flat multifilar windings. There is not a single example or any discussion of twisted windings in the book. If you have citations comparing the two methods I'd be very interested.
Rather obviously both the inductive and capacitive coupling will be different for the two methods.
Have Fun!
Reg
On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 02:30:05 PM CST, Froggie the Gremlin <jonpaul@...> wrote:
Hello again
Bunched or twisted wires are used in magnetics as a low cost more practical alternative to Litz wire. Depend on the frequency and current density, the difference between bunched and litz may be slight.
Certain winding? designs indeed use a bifillar pair to minimize leakage inductance.
In decades of magnetics I have never used multiple wires that laid parallel. in production it's impossible to maintain the lay.
Rubudue and MWS make Litz and bunched wire, they may have an app note comparison.
Bon courage
Jon
<IMG_4341.JPG>
|
Re: A fixture for making multifilar windings
you want parallel multifilar wire, made in various numbers of conductors
Jon
|
Re: A fixture for making multifilar windings
This is the cover photo which prompted developing a way of making flat multifilar windings. There is not a single example or any discussion of twisted windings in the book. If you have citations comparing the two methods I'd be very interested.
Rather obviously both the inductive and capacitive coupling will be different for the two methods.
Have Fun!
Reg
On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 02:30:05 PM CST, Froggie the Gremlin <jonpaul@...> wrote:
Hello again
Bunched or twisted wires are used in magnetics as a low cost more practical alternative to Litz wire. Depend on the frequency and current density, the difference between bunched and litz may be slight.
Certain winding? designs indeed use a bifillar pair to minimize leakage inductance.
In decades of magnetics I have never used multiple wires that laid parallel. in production it's impossible to maintain the lay.
Rubudue and MWS make Litz and bunched wire, they may have an app note comparison.
Bon courage
Jon
|
Re: A fixture for making multifilar windings
Hello again
Bunched or twisted wires are used in magnetics as a low cost more practical alternative to Litz wire. Depend on the frequency and current density, the difference between bunched and litz may be slight.
Certain winding designs indeed use a bifillar pair to minimize leakage inductance.
In decades of magnetics I have never used multiple wires that laid parallel. in production it's impossible to maintain the lay.
Rubudue and MWS make Litz and bunched wire, they may have an app note comparison.
Bon courage
Jon
|
Re: A fixture for making multifilar windings
Someone should have told Raymond Mack and Jerry Sevick. One or the other went to a lot of trouble to keep the windings parallel instead of twisting them as shown in the cover photo of the 5th ed.
I plan to compare the performance of twisted and parallel windings at some point, but rather low priority.
Have Fun!
Reg
On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 10:59:39 AM CST, Froggie the Gremlin <jonpaul@...> wrote:
Bravo, we used to just use a vise and electric or hand drill.
no need for any coating if done properly
in production we bought multifilar wire in 2..4 colors for ID of wdgs. MWS makes it.
Jon
|
Re: A fixture for making multifilar windings
Bravo, we used to just use a vise and electric or hand drill.
no need for any coating if done properly
in production we bought multifilar wire in 2..4 colors for ID of wdgs. MWS makes it.
Jon
|
A fixture for making multifilar windings
I took a break from organizing my shop to make this. I finally have a place to put things, so progress has been rapid. In 1/2 of the mess ;-(
I made something similar out of a very light oak strip which bent like a bow when I was making and testing transformers for my electrically tuned xtal filter project.
Here is the Mk II version with a stout enough piece of wood.? The aluminum angle bridges serve to position the wires properly side by side. Once they have been stretched so the wires undergo plastic deformation, a thin coating of nail polish, lacquer or super glue will produce an easily handled multifilar winding.? For this demonstration I made a 4 filament winding of #28. Before I wind this on a toroid, I'm going to spray one side with F77 spray adhesive so that it sticks to the core (I hope!).
I strongly suspect that two screws and the angles are probably good enough, but I have had the tuner for ~50 years so I put it to use. Up until the advent of neodymium magnets, repairing a guitar side used a thin wire through the crack to pull gluing cauls together. This tuner came off my Yamaha FG-180 when I put Grovers on it.
Have Fun!
Reg
|
Re: Old Heathkit Ham Linear Tube Amplifiers .... Mods, Repairs, best Refurbishment practices ?
Re: Heathkit SB-200, SB-220, SB-1000 & HL-2200 Linear Amps:
????? any refurbishing would include Grounding the Grids in any of these Amps !
?Yes, W8JI has excellent information.
??? The R. Measures older information has been superseded, so trying to climb out of that deep well" !
W7RY:
?????? Hoping that the extensive practical knowledge of W7RY has been? Or will be?? written down in detail somewhere, for future generations.
????????? From reading Jim's responses about Linear Amps from years ago, scattered on the Web,? he certainly knows what he is speaking about.
The first item on the list above,?
??? as a given,
??????? is to replace all of the Electrolytic Caps, including the original PS Caps.
The HV Rf Caps are being examined and may simply be replaced by HEC ceramic 5kV?? if there is any suspension.
The Coils, chokes, Band SW elements and solder joints are being very carefully examined.
Biasing mods, Zener Mods, etc. will all be done.
SK, SS & QSK mods would be entertained, depending on the HK SB-? model #.
The relays will be examined and tested for timing, and possible replacement with modern faster stable units.
? Front panel switches will be examined and possibly replaced, etc.
The tubes are last on the list to be tested, examined and qualified, after the platform Amp is "corrected" .
The main interest is to try to preempt arcing of any kind in the hardware, and update the circuits to the best possible recent practices,
as a precautionary strategy.
Specific practical details from those experienced with these HK Linear Amps who have actually Refurb / Repaired these would be welcome.
thank you
|
Re: Old Heathkit Ham Linear Tube Amplifiers .... Mods, Repairs, best Refurbishment practices ?
Before attempting to power tube circuits that have long been unpowered, it is advisable to "rejuvenate" the tubes and high voltage electrolytics.
Residual gases poison the inactive cathode or heater as years go by. Articles such as this one detail the steps to follow:
https://www.6v6.co.uk/vcomp/tech_tips/rejuvenation_tubes.htm
Read it carefully. The procedure depends on cathode or heater details.
As to the electrolytics, their dielectric layer degrade if not used for long periods. Feed them with an external DC power supply thru a current limiting resistor of, say, 10 kohm. Their initial insulation resistance will be quite low making the applied voltage low, and it will slowly rise as the aluminum oxide layer is regenerated. Electrolytics do not need from the 50s or 60s to require this caution. Recently I applied rectified 220Vac to 100uF 350V capacitors manufactured in the late 80s, with an incandescent lamp in series with the AC: the lamp lighted for quite a long time, much longer than the expected charging time if the capacitors were sound. The 2nd time I repeated the action, and after having completely discharged the C, the lamp just blinked.
Daniel Perez LW1ECP
El s¨¢bado, 20 de enero de 2024, 17:53:04 ART, Ray, W4BYG <w4byg@...> escribi¨®:
Gren,
One of the best online amplifier reference website is found at:
73,
Ray, W4BYG
On 1/19/2024 21:57, gren wrote:
Hoping to stimulate some discussion on Old Ham Tube Linear Amps: ? Are there any experienced with the various Tube Amp issues, ???? ... such as Arcing and Band SW,? coil,? capacitor & tube and HV Xfrmr destruction in these amplifiers ? I am beginning to refurbish two old Heathkit Linear Amps: ?? the SB-1000? ( similar to the AL-80)? & the SB-200. ? Scouring the Web looking for information on refurbishing issues and modifying old Heathkit Ham Linear Tube amplifiers quick summary: PS Cap board Metering board /Bias Soft-Key Soft-Start Parasitic's Glitch resistor HEC HV Caps Self-biasing of relays "Corona Washer " QSK new tubes ... poor solder joints (expected) Band Sw issues, etc. There are plenty of Ham Blogs on the SB-200? & SB-220,? ...? but fewer on the SB-1000 & HL-2200. ?Articles by Richard Measures, and others, some with theory, discussion, diagrams, photos , ??? and, as with anything,? some miss-information and some corrections. There are a lot of YouTube videos,? and ? AmpRepairGuy.com?? has some videos of his repairs. ? Likely others , all requiring sifting the information and reasoning. Harbach Co.? & CTR Engineering? Kits,? parts for? Mods (depending on the Amp Model): ? Having good instruction,? kits, ? PCB's ?? and downloadable pdf's at both of these? two? web sites: Possibly the Richard Measures (SK) Amp Forum, has some priceless,? sometimes buried help: The "search" bar? { below }? can still dial in the query: example: And, ? ....? there seem to be some PCB's? from?? W7RY , although I have not been successful getting adequate answers or actually purchasing the PCB's thanks, --"If you want to build a strong house, I'll give you my engineer's number. If you want to build a strong life, I'll introduce you to my carpenter." Lebron and Heather Lackey
|
Froggie the Gremlin
Daniel Ricardo Perez LW1ECP