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OT: Looking for Surge Protector module Construction DIY projects for Whole Lab, or Whole Ham Shack from QEX or QST , etc. ??

 

Apologies if this off-topic question is too far out for this group.
?If so, please delete and ignore.

Looking for DIY construction project References? or? .pdf's ? in QEX or QST or other , for Surge Protectors
?capable of protecting a Whole Amateur Radio Shack or/&? Electronics Lab at the Breaker Panel or Sub-Panel level.
? The articles would typically list the component, have a schematic,? and the "best-practice"?? PCB? layouts already worked out.

Of course, a number of Commercial products are available, such as the Siemens FS-140, which has good specs.
These are listed as "Whole House Surge Protectors" (WHSP's).
?? An example? article of listing of such can be found here:


However, the cost for the Siemens FS-140 or other modules is steep,? in the $300 to $400 range, while the actual components costs are? in the $20 range.
-? not a bad cost bad for a single home,
-- but with multiple buildings on a farm, and separate antenna shacks , the cost for 8 of these adds up.

So,? looking to build some myself.
It is not that difficult a thing to do, and I have added MOV's to specific individual equipment myself across the L1 L2 & ground lines,
? (both internally & externally) to protect them, and that has worked out fine.

Thus the request for some DIY ? .pdf's?? articles?? or? Web Reference? from say QEX or QST? or other, for my own self-edification, would be appreciated.

thank you,
rick
Re: Message blocking

 


DaveD is probably a chatbot :-(

On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 01:52:17 PM CDT, Reginald Beardsley via groups.io <pulaskite@...> wrote:


I'm the owner and I have no idea who is doing this or how to contact them.? None of it makes any sense.

Reg
Message blocking

 

I'm the owner and I have no idea who is doing this or how to contact them. None of it makes any sense.

Reg
Fw: [qex] Your message was not approved

 

I have no clue who DaveD is am NOT happy.

Reg


----- Forwarded Message -----

From: Group Notification <[email protected]>
To: Reginald Beardsley <pulaskite@...>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 at 01:37:49 PM CDT
Subject: [qex] Your message was not approved

Hello,

A message you sent to the group [email protected] was not approved by the moderators for the following reason:

YouTube content is usually copyrighted (by the perso who uploaded the content). Since we don't allow the posting of copyrighted materials, I am goingvtk reject this post and ask that you re-post without the image.

DaveD

The message is attached.

hi,

Apologies if this off-topic question is too far out for this group.
?If so, please delete and ignore.

Looking for DIY construction project References? or? .pdf's ? in QEX or QST or other , for Surge Protectors
?capable of protecting a Whole Amateur Radio Shack or/&? Electronics Lab at the Breaker Panel or Sub-Panel level.
? The articles would typically list the component, have a schematic,? and the "best-practice" layouts already worked out.

Of course, a number of Commercial products are available, such as the Siemens FS-140, which has good specs.
These are listed as "Whole House Surge Protectors" (WHSP's).
?? An example? article of listing of such can be found here:


However, the cost for the Siemens FS-140 or other modules is steep,? in the $300 to $400 range, while the actual components costs are? in the $20 range.
-? Perhaps the cost of one (1) Commercial unit is not so bad for a single home,
-- but with multiple buildings on a farm, and separate antenna shacks , the cost for 8 of these adds up.

So,? I would like to build some myself.
It is not that difficult a thing to do, and I have added MOV's to specific individual equipment myself across the L1 L2 & ground lines,
? (both internally & externally) to protect them, and that has worked out fine.

But, I'd like to add a Whole Lab & Whole ham shack modules, as well as for the Antenna shacks at each breaker box.

? Our grounding rods & plates are all adequate, up to date and to code, so none of that is an issue.
We are in a high lightning strike area, and the soil type is well drained, stony and conductivity is poor when conditions are dry.
-- So having multiple and redundant (Whole House type )? Surge Protector modules installed at every location is what we are looking to build.

Thus the request for some .pdf's of articles or their Web Reference? from say QEX or QST? or other, for my own self-edification, would be appreciated.

thank you,
rick

An example of the insides of the? Siemens FS-14 ,? found in some random YouTube video:
(MOV's are the blue discs, etc. )


dummyfile.0.part

Circuit for monitoring RF compression with a VU meter

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Been reading QEX almost from the beginning and have enjoyed all my issues. I also have a fairly nice technical library. I have a question which I've never seen an article on and I wonder if some of you that are way above my pay grade, might have seen a reference somewhere else, or might know how to design it.

I have a nice Kenwood TS-590-SG plus 500 watt? SS amplifier, which I like to engage the Kenwood's digital audio compression from time to time, for SSB operations. I have the compression set per the manual recommendations, but I'm never quite sure it's set so as to give good compression, but not introduce objectionable distortion.

I also forget from time to time to turn the compression back on after I've been on FT8, etc. An outboard? visual indicator would be helpful.

My query: I have a very good quality VU meter. I would love to find and build a circuit and a way to calibrate it for the desired compression after demodulating an RF sample, of my signals. Has there been such an animal in our world?

I realize a good scope is the best monitor like my Tek 465 or 2246, but I don't want that in my set up because of the physical size. The Kenwood panel meter gives some indication but the resolution falls a little short. I would prefer to calibrate a larger panel meter for day to day operating.

Thank you for your attention. Any assistance or comments will be appreciated.
Ray, W4BYG
 
--
"If you want to build a strong house, I'll give you my engineer's number.
 If you want to build a strong life, I'll introduce you to my carpenter."
  Lebron and Heather Lackey

Virus-free.
Re: Class-E Amplifier Woes

 

Hi Jim,

R8/R9 seemed to reduce the ringing, but I never proved this definitively.

The symmetry adjustments were included as a "just in case" feature, but I never did any further work to determine if it was actually needed, or not.

The amp's purpose really is just to provide RF for an AM signal.? So, apart from from turning on and off at the start and end of a transmission, the amp isn't being keyed as one might do for CW operation.? Never the less, there is ramping provided via C1, R1, and R2.

- Jeff, k6jca


On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 08:42:06 PM PDT, jim conrad <conr2286@...> wrote:


On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 03:25 PM, Jeff Anderson wrote:
Building an 80-Meter Class E/F RF Amplifier...
Jeff,

Your 80m amp inspires several questions...

  • Is the purpose of R8/R9 to protect U8/U9 from excessive peak current, or to mitigate ringing, or...?
  • Did you find the symmetry adjustment (R3/R6) necessary or was it more just-in-case?
  • Did you ramp up/down the PA ON signal to minimize key-clicks? ?I've been thinking of doing something similar to minimize clicks when the PA turns on/off.?
--
JimC (KQ7B)

Re: Class-E Amplifier Woes

jim conrad
 

WRT my third question, I just figured out that the RC time constant of Q1's gate drive provides a soft ramp for the PA.
--
JimC (KQ7B)
Re: Class-E Amplifier Woes

jim conrad
 

On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 03:25 PM, Jeff Anderson wrote:
Building an 80-Meter Class E/F RF Amplifier...
Jeff,

Your 80m amp inspires several questions...

  • Is the purpose of R8/R9 to protect U8/U9 from excessive peak current, or to mitigate ringing, or...?
  • Did you find the symmetry adjustment (R3/R6) necessary or was it more just-in-case?
  • Did you ramp up/down the PA ON signal to minimize key-clicks? ?I've been thinking of doing something similar to minimize clicks when the PA turns on/off.?
--
JimC (KQ7B)
Testing a 3.395 MHz 500 Hz BW TS-520 CW filter

 

I was able to pick up a CW filter for my TS-520 and ran a series of tests using my 8593A SA w/ TG.

The photos show the "matching" network and the spectrum for cases I've tested so far. Next up are the addition of caps to the resistive match, reactive matching and transformers.

Shunts are 51 ohms and series are 2k. I'll test the filter on my 8753B before I install it with a different fixture which has had a custom SOLT cal.

Several other people on the Kenwood hybrids list have posted their transfer function measurements and all have a >6 dB ripple in the pass band. At present I'm not sure if it's good or bad. I'll decide when I hear it.

Have Fun!
Reg

IMG_3009.JPG
IMG_3010.JPG
IMG_3011.JPG
IMG_3012.JPG

Re: Class-E Amplifier Woes

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Jim, I built a push-pull class-E amp some years ago (for driving an 813-based home brew AM rig).

In case my own experiences might be useful to you, my notes can be found via the link below.


Best regards,

- Jeff, k6jca


On Jun 18, 2023, at 12:34 PM, jim conrad <conr2286@...> wrote:

?My Class-E amplifier (Sokal, Jan/Feb 2001;?; etc) investigation has struggled to find suitable devices for the final and its driver. ?The challenges include:

  • Common BJT PAs cannot switch fast enough to minimize the time spent in the linear region (so much charge, so little time)
  • MOSFET devices switch fast *if* the driver can supply the peak gate current (this can be measured in amps with some MOSFET finals!)
  • No discrete driver of my design (including those with Schottky diodes and other accelerators) has rise/fall times for operation in the upper-HF region
  • The only setup I've gotten to work is paralleled 74ACT00s driving the BS170 (widely used in many QRP projects)
  • But the BS170 Vds(Max) is only 60 V, nor does Pd(Max) provide much headroom for operation at 13.8V
  • Class-E Vds can easily exceed 60 V
A similar QRPLabs thread suggested using paralleled 74act244 buffers, good for 600 mA dynamic current. ?Also suggested for the final was the FDT86256 MOSFET which has a 150 Vds(Max) rating.

Does anyone here have a better suggestion for the driver or finals? ?Do you have Class-E design experiences to share?

--
JimC (KQ7B)

NaN The "Not a NorCal 40" project

 

FWIW I am currently working on measuring and sorting 500x 5 MHz HC-49S crystals into 10 bins based on Fs at 0 C and then sub-sort into 10 bins based on Fs at 50 C drawing the crystals from a water bath.

This is a prelude to building the 4th order 5 MHz example in EMRFD and then figuring out if I can tune it electrically +/- 200 Hz. If that works I'll build a 2nd one which would provide an 8th order response.

A Bessel is the maximally flat delay filter. As the orders get higher it converges to a Gaussian. With the low height of the HC-49S a pair of 4 crystal filters will fit in the same space as the NorCal 40A filter.

The NaN concept main features are:

Fully analog operation

5 MHz IF with dual tunable BP filters

direct connection of IF to antenna for WWV reception

noise diode at antenna input for self test

quadrature baseband mixer with IQ output

an analog audio section to convert IQ into binaural audio to highlight pitch and relative relationships

interface to separate module with waterfall, digital readout and recording to uSD using its own power

<250 mA receive drain analog section

The logic is that when you are setting up to keep a sked in portable mode, you need to look for a frequency that's open and start calling. But once the QSO starts you no longer need the waterfall or the frequency display. The Icom 705 does this, but the FPGA still eats a lot of power.

The premise underlying the effort is that I can make an analog version of a digital filter. I've done digital filters for 40 years.

Have Fun!
Reg

Class-E Amplifier Woes

jim conrad
 

My Class-E amplifier (Sokal, Jan/Feb 2001;?; etc) investigation has struggled to find suitable devices for the final and its driver. ?The challenges include:

  • Common BJT PAs cannot switch fast enough to minimize the time spent in the linear region (so much charge, so little time)
  • MOSFET devices switch fast *if* the driver can supply the peak gate current (this can be measured in amps with some MOSFET finals!)
  • No discrete driver of my design (including those with Schottky diodes and other accelerators) has rise/fall times for operation in the upper-HF region
  • The only setup I've gotten to work is paralleled 74ACT00s driving the BS170 (widely used in many QRP projects)
  • But the BS170 Vds(Max) is only 60 V, nor does Pd(Max) provide much headroom for operation at 13.8V
  • Class-E Vds can easily exceed 60 V
A similar QRPLabs thread suggested using paralleled 74act244 buffers, good for 600 mA dynamic current. ?Also suggested for the final was the FDT86256 MOSFET which has a 150 Vds(Max) rating.

Does anyone here have a better suggestion for the driver or finals? ?Do you have Class-E design experiences to share?

--
JimC (KQ7B)

Re: An IF in search of a radio

 

Sorry about the slow response.

I'm not yet aware that is an issue. I'm still working on the basics, e.g. measuring a Kenwood TS-520 CW filter and construct fixtures. But a tuned choke or two should do it. I need a 25 femptoFarad change to . A series arrangement should be fairly insensitive to small variations in capacitance of the varactor. The first prototype will be manual air variables.

It's entirely possible that it can't be done reliably. But the only way to find out is try doing it. Unfortunately, my 8593A is misbehaving so I seem to have had a repair job take priority. I now have 500x crystals in hand.

Have Fun!
Reg

Re: Introductions

 

Welcome. I'm afraid this list hasn't had much traffic though I'd like to see that change.

I started the list as a venue for discussing articles in QEX, but then there weren't any that really interested me.

What would you like to discuss? I'm very intensely focused on crystal filters.

At the moment it happens that the main discussion of crystal parameter measurement is on the HPAK repair list. And the "Not a NorCal" project on qrptech.

Have Fun!
Reg

Re: Introductions

jim conrad
 

I'm a retired HP engineer and college professor who finally has time for radio projects.? Current investigations focus on POTA/SOTA equipment and digital modes.? My wife and I live on a small farm in northern Idaho.
--
JimC (KQ7B)

Re: An IF in search of a radio

 

We introduced the first SDR based Telemetry system as well. Our analog designs had bandwidths down to 1 KHz, without crystal filters. Have fun, but between my work with Telemetry and Microwave TV relays, I take group delay quite seriously. I also dealt with it in designing Cable TV return systems.

I do have one question. How will you prevent the IF signal from modulating the tuning voltage on your Varicaps?


On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 8:31?PM Reginald Beardsley via <pulaskite=[email protected]> wrote:
I'm a little confused. How is this related to implementing very narrow filters by using isolated sequential, partially overlapping filters? The Icom 705 will give single signal reception with stronger stations within 50 Hz. That blew my mind and I've been doing this stuff a very long time.

In modern professional work you use DSP, but for portable ham use, analog is much better if power is a concern.

Digital filters are my forte. I just need to know what you want done. Analog is a bit more ambiguous.

Have Fun!
Reg
On Saturday, May 13, 2023, 06:45:54 PM CDT, Michael A. Terrell <terrell.michael.a@...> wrote:


I worked with high end Telemetry receivers at the factory. All tuned circuits were Lc or RC. The only crystals were for LO or system clock applications. The LC were aligned on HP Network analyzers.
RC filters were Sallen-KKey, used to shape the baseband output. For testing these, I used a HP3325A and a Fluke 8921 True RMS Voltmeter that worked out to 20 Mhz. I could measure the -3dB point with ease, and quickly to test each of 16 computer selected filters
Telemetry needs very low phase delay, especially on very weak signals. We used a 70 MHz IF? which could be recorded to instrumentation recorders to allow recovery of multiple channels of frequency multiplexed data.

Re: An IF in search of a radio

 

I'm a little confused. How is this related to implementing very narrow filters by using isolated sequential, partially overlapping filters? The Icom 705 will give single signal reception with stronger stations within 50 Hz. That blew my mind and I've been doing this stuff a very long time.

In modern professional work you use DSP, but for portable ham use, analog is much better if power is a concern.

Digital filters are my forte. I just need to know what you want done. Analog is a bit more ambiguous.

Have Fun!
Reg
On Saturday, May 13, 2023, 06:45:54 PM CDT, Michael A. Terrell <terrell.michael.a@...> wrote:


I worked with high end Telemetry receivers at the factory. All tuned circuits were Lc or RC. The only crystals were for LO or system clock applications. The LC were aligned on HP Network analyzers.
RC filters were Sallen-KKey, used to shape the baseband output. For testing these, I used a HP3325A and a Fluke 8921 True RMS Voltmeter that worked out to 20 Mhz. I could measure the -3dB point with ease, and quickly to test each of 16 computer selected filters
Telemetry needs very low phase delay, especially on very weak signals. We used a 70 MHz IF? which could be recorded to instrumentation recorders to allow recovery of multiple channels of frequency multiplexed data.

Re: An IF in search of a radio

 

I worked with high end Telemetry receivers at the factory. All tuned circuits were Lc or RC. The only crystals were for LO or system clock applications. The LC were aligned on HP Network analyzers.
RC filters were Sallen-KKey, used to shape the baseband output. For testing these, I used a HP3325A and a Fluke 8921 True RMS Voltmeter that worked out to 20 Mhz. I could measure the -3dB point with ease, and quickly to test each of 16 computer selected filters
Telemetry needs very low phase delay, especially on very weak signals. We used a 70 MHz IF? which could be recorded to instrumentation recorders to allow recovery of multiple channels of frequency multiplexed data.

Re: An IF in search of a radio

 


*Everything* about the shape is reflected in every other aspect of the filter. TANSTAFL! One should never design a filter without examining the behavior in both time and frequency very closely.

My biggest concern at present is electrically tuning the center frequency. For a start I've designed some 5-7 order Butterworth BP LC filters. Now I need to sort and bin a large tote of RF chokes and build them.

I plan to use fixed caps for the first couple to test the shift and shape and then start fiddling with varactors and crystals once my 5 MHz xtals arrive.

Reg
On Saturday, May 13, 2023, 05:34:24 AM CDT, Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:


It's probably worth noting that the filter passband shape affects group delay. This was noted and illustrated in EMRFD.? The rapid transition from a flat passband to sharp skirt rolloff yields some impressively bad group-delay values.

I don't have the mathematical wherewithal to evaluate this, but it was worth a try on the workbench. Instead of tuning a filter for the fastest transition, I opted instead for a gentle skirt transition.? I could clearly hear the difference in the recovered audio. It seems that hobbyists have been 'building in' crummy audio with the sharp crystal filters.? The authors of EMRFD suggested that the so-called Gaussian filter mitigates the unwanted group delay peaking. Analog Design's 'Analog Filter Wizard' provides group delay plots that illustrate the perils of sharp transitions .? Eye-opening, and 'no free lunch' for this hobbyist.

- K1SWL


On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 8:27?PM Reginald Beardsley via <pulaskite=[email protected]> wrote:
"Ah, Grasshopper, It is good you asked this question." ( If you'll forgive a KungFu paraphrase.)

All the equations governing the time and frequency behavior of filters are well defined.

The experience is the IC-705. All the rest is 40 years of DSP in the oil industry and an active interest in low cost, high performance QRP CW rigs.

A bell is a narrow band resonator. A concrete block is a broadband resonator. Bell goes "bong......". Block goes "clunk".

This is intrinsic to the mathematical relationship between time and frequency. For most of my life I thought that was the end of the story. And I worked at the reflection seismology research level. I could have made a *killing* if I'f figured this out. But so far as I know, no one in the community that invented DSP thought of it.

The fundamentals are simple.

The time domain response of a filter is dependent upon the width of the filter, not the input signal. If you output from the first filter a segment that only has 50 Hz of overlap with the 2nd filter yo will get a 50 Hz filter without any ringing. It's very fundamental and I am embarrassed neither I nor, to my knowledge, any of my coworkers thought of doing it.

Have Fun!
Reg
On Friday, May 12, 2023, 05:34:30 PM CDT, Daniel Ricardo Perez LW1ECP via <danyperez1=[email protected]> wrote:


Hi! I am puzzled about the fact that using 2 cascaded, overlapping filters results in less ringing than a single CW filter with same resulting bandwidth. Have you experienced that or is it a guess?
I suppose a good RF simulator could give an idea of the results making a time domain simulation.
BTW, I don't think 5.0 MHz is a particular option, one doesn't need having WWV accuracy to align a filter, in special a shiftable filter. 9 or 10MHz should be easier to shift because the percent change is smaller.
Have success!
Daniel Perez LW1ECP


El viernes, 12 de mayo de 2023 19:19:23 ART, Reginald Beardsley via <pulaskite=[email protected]> escribi¨®:
I recently bought an Icom 705 and have been stunned by the performance of twin tunable pass band filters.? I want to duplicate that using analog filters.? As it happens, 5 MHz HC-49/S crystals are less than a dime with other frequencies available at similar prices.? But 5 MHz provides some interesting options in radio design.? Particularly in the self diagnose and repair department.
Key concepts:
a 5 MHz IF allows using WWV for very precise calibration and alignment in conjunction with a noise source
the required frequency shifts are very small relative to Fp & Fs
varactors should easily perform the shifts
a nanoVNA will measure the xtal to provide the values needed to match that xtal
a program will calculate the optimal choice of xtals and capacitors & varactors from small pools (10-20) of parts to meet design goals with manual trimming as needed.? ? A pair of 4 pole? varactor tuned filters shouldn't be that hard.
Why go to all the problem of matching filters only to have a fixed frequency filter?? Worst case use a latching DAC and MSP430 to set the varactors.? All a question of current drain.
Have Fun!
Reg



Re: An IF in search of a radio

 

It's probably worth noting that the filter passband shape affects group delay. This was noted and illustrated in EMRFD.? The rapid transition from a flat passband to sharp skirt rolloff yields some impressively bad group-delay values.

I don't have the mathematical wherewithal to evaluate this, but it was worth a try on the workbench. Instead of tuning a filter for the fastest transition, I opted instead for a gentle skirt transition.? I could clearly hear the difference in the recovered audio. It seems that hobbyists have been 'building in' crummy audio with the sharp crystal filters.? The authors of EMRFD suggested that the so-called Gaussian filter mitigates the unwanted group delay peaking. Analog Design's 'Analog Filter Wizard' provides group delay plots that illustrate the perils of sharp transitions .? Eye-opening, and 'no free lunch' for this hobbyist.

- K1SWL


On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 8:27?PM Reginald Beardsley via <pulaskite=[email protected]> wrote:
"Ah, Grasshopper, It is good you asked this question." ( If you'll forgive a KungFu paraphrase.)

All the equations governing the time and frequency behavior of filters are well defined.

The experience is the IC-705. All the rest is 40 years of DSP in the oil industry and an active interest in low cost, high performance QRP CW rigs.

A bell is a narrow band resonator. A concrete block is a broadband resonator. Bell goes "bong......". Block goes "clunk".

This is intrinsic to the mathematical relationship between time and frequency. For most of my life I thought that was the end of the story. And I worked at the reflection seismology research level. I could have made a *killing* if I'f figured this out. But so far as I know, no one in the community that invented DSP thought of it.

The fundamentals are simple.

The time domain response of a filter is dependent upon the width of the filter, not the input signal. If you output from the first filter a segment that only has 50 Hz of overlap with the 2nd filter yo will get a 50 Hz filter without any ringing. It's very fundamental and I am embarrassed neither I nor, to my knowledge, any of my coworkers thought of doing it.

Have Fun!
Reg
On Friday, May 12, 2023, 05:34:30 PM CDT, Daniel Ricardo Perez LW1ECP via <danyperez1=[email protected]> wrote:


Hi! I am puzzled about the fact that using 2 cascaded, overlapping filters results in less ringing than a single CW filter with same resulting bandwidth. Have you experienced that or is it a guess?
I suppose a good RF simulator could give an idea of the results making a time domain simulation.
BTW, I don't think 5.0 MHz is a particular option, one doesn't need having WWV accuracy to align a filter, in special a shiftable filter. 9 or 10MHz should be easier to shift because the percent change is smaller.
Have success!
Daniel Perez LW1ECP


El viernes, 12 de mayo de 2023 19:19:23 ART, Reginald Beardsley via <pulaskite=[email protected]> escribi¨®:
I recently bought an Icom 705 and have been stunned by the performance of twin tunable pass band filters.? I want to duplicate that using analog filters.? As it happens, 5 MHz HC-49/S crystals are less than a dime with other frequencies available at similar prices.? But 5 MHz provides some interesting options in radio design.? Particularly in the self diagnose and repair department.
Key concepts:
a 5 MHz IF allows using WWV for very precise calibration and alignment in conjunction with a noise source
the required frequency shifts are very small relative to Fp & Fs
varactors should easily perform the shifts
a nanoVNA will measure the xtal to provide the values needed to match that xtal
a program will calculate the optimal choice of xtals and capacitors & varactors from small pools (10-20) of parts to meet design goals with manual trimming as needed.? ? A pair of 4 pole? varactor tuned filters shouldn't be that hard.
Why go to all the problem of matching filters only to have a fixed frequency filter?? Worst case use a latching DAC and MSP430 to set the varactors.? All a question of current drain.
Have Fun!
Reg



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