#7533

Hi everyone, hope you are all keeping safe? I am hoping someone may be able to help with my current (no pun intended!) wiring dilemma. I am in the early stages of building a small o14 layout using Roy Link/KB Scale trackwork in the visible areas and hand built copper clad track using RL/KB templates off scene.? What I am struggling with is how to wire up the turnouts for DC and DCC.? I understand the basics but can't work out how Roy intended them to be wired? I assume as he used a brass tie bar both point blades are the same polarity and rely on contact with the stock rails to transmit power.? I note from the point building details on KB Scale's website, that the frog should be provided with a feed wire. I wish to use a Tortoise motor to switch frog polarity and also wish to provide power to the point blades in order not to rely on contact with the stock rails for power transmission. I cannot work out from the turnout building instructions whether the frog is electrically connected to the point blades at the pivot points or isolated. I was thinking the ideal way to wire the turnout would be the same as the recommended method of converting Peco Electrofrog points i.e. by electrically isolating the frog from the point blades and switching its polarity via the point motor auxiliary switches and then electrically bonding each point blade to its stock rail.? This would mean that each point blade is a fixed polarity eliminating any chance of the back of a wheel shorting across the point gap. The problem I foresee with this method, particularly on the RL/KB type 1 turnout (only 63mm in length) is the lack of sleepers to support the frog and point blades each side of the isolating gap between them. Also, the tie bar would have to be replaced with a non conductive material.

I would appreciate any comments, constructive criticism, pointing (!!) in the right direction (or even "what are you on about" type questions) etc. TIA

#7534

开云体育

Phil,

When I first started build points I used a sleeper made of copper clad either side of any isolating gaps to hold the rails in place with solder and then put cosmetic chairs in the right position to achieve that all charged look.

These days I use brass chairs and solder them to the sleeper strip to achieve the same result.?

I, as you have mentioned, keep the frog/crossing assembly as one unit and have the switch rails soldered to the CC sleeper strip to hold in place and cut the strip to provide the isolation gap in between them. This strip is then in turned soldered to the stock rail to achieve the power feed aspect of it.?

Switch rail wise I use a thinner section of The strip to solder the switch rails to a the tiebar and just cut the strip close to each rail to achieve the gap needed.

Hope this helps?

Simon?

Show quoted text

On 18 Apr 2020, at 11:26, toones4 <phil.toone@...> wrote:

?Hi everyone, hope you are all keeping safe? I am hoping someone may be able to help with my current (no pun intended!) wiring dilemma. I am in the early stages of building a small o14 layout using Roy Link/KB Scale trackwork in the visible areas and hand built copper clad track using RL/KB templates off scene.? What I am struggling with is how to wire up the turnouts for DC and DCC.? I understand the basics but can't work out how Roy intended them to be wired? I assume as he used a brass tie bar both point blades are the same polarity and rely on contact with the stock rails to transmit power.? I note from the point building details on KB Scale's website, that the frog should be provided with a feed wire. I wish to use a Tortoise motor to switch frog polarity and also wish to provide power to the point blades in order not to rely on contact with the stock rails for power transmission. I cannot work out from the turnout building instructions whether the frog is electrically connected to the point blades at the pivot points or isolated. I was thinking the ideal way to wire the turnout would be the same as the recommended method of converting Peco Electrofrog points i.e. by electrically isolating the frog from the point blades and switching its polarity via the point motor auxiliary switches and then electrically bonding each point blade to its stock rail.? This would mean that each point blade is a fixed polarity eliminating any chance of the back of a wheel shorting across the point gap. The problem I foresee with this method, particularly on the RL/KB type 1 turnout (only 63mm in length) is the lack of sleepers to support the frog and point blades each side of the isolating gap between them. Also, the tie bar would have to be replaced with a non conductive material.

I would appreciate any comments, constructive criticism, pointing (!!) in the right direction (or even "what are you on about" type questions) etc. TIA

#7535

I built 5 points for my 'Bunny Mine' layout using the Roy Link type 2 plans but copper-clad sleepers. The frog and switch rails are live. The polarity is switched either by a slider switch which controls the point via 'wire in tube' or in one case via a rocker switch from a point control rod. A photo of one point pre-installation attached.?

Further details available if you are interested, there is a thread on NGRM.

David

Show quoted text

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 at 11:48, Simon Howard via <howard729=[email protected]> wrote:

Phil,

When I first started build points I used a sleeper made of copper clad either side of any isolating gaps to hold the rails in place with solder and then put cosmetic chairs in the right position to achieve that all charged look.

These days I use brass chairs and solder them to the sleeper strip to achieve the same result.?

I, as you have mentioned, keep the frog/crossing assembly as one unit and have the switch rails soldered to the CC sleeper strip to hold in place and cut the strip to provide the isolation gap in between them. This strip is then in turned soldered to the stock rail to achieve the power feed aspect of it.?

Switch rail wise I use a thinner section of The strip to solder the switch rails to a the tiebar and just cut the strip close to each rail to achieve the gap needed.

Hope this helps?
Simon?

On 18 Apr 2020, at 11:26, toones4 <phil.toone@...> wrote:

?Hi everyone, hope you are all keeping safe? I am hoping someone may be able to help with my current (no pun intended!) wiring dilemma. I am in the early stages of building a small o14 layout using Roy Link/KB Scale trackwork in the visible areas and hand built copper clad track using RL/KB templates off scene.? What I am struggling with is how to wire up the turnouts for DC and DCC.? I understand the basics but can't work out how Roy intended them to be wired? I assume as he used a brass tie bar both point blades are the same polarity and rely on contact with the stock rails to transmit power.? I note from the point building details on KB Scale's website, that the frog should be provided with a feed wire. I wish to use a Tortoise motor to switch frog polarity and also wish to provide power to the point blades in order not to rely on contact with the stock rails for power transmission. I cannot work out from the turnout building instructions whether the frog is electrically connected to the point blades at the pivot points or isolated. I was thinking the ideal way to wire the turnout would be the same as the recommended method of converting Peco Electrofrog points i.e. by electrically isolating the frog from the point blades and switching its polarity via the point motor auxiliary switches and then electrically bonding each point blade to its stock rail.? This would mean that each point blade is a fixed polarity eliminating any chance of the back of a wheel shorting across the point gap. The problem I foresee with this method, particularly on the RL/KB type 1 turnout (only 63mm in length) is the lack of sleepers to support the frog and point blades each side of the isolating gap between them. Also, the tie bar would have to be replaced with a non conductive material.

I would appreciate any comments, constructive criticism, pointing (!!) in the right direction (or even "what are you on about" type questions) etc. TIA

DSC04090.JPG

#7543

开云体育

Thanks Simon and David for the very useful information.

?

David, am I right in saying that your turnouts have the switch rails connected to the frog (crossing) assembly by wire links at the pivot points so the frog and both switch rails (point blades) change polarity when the point is thrown.? I assume you have not had problems with the back of a wheel creating a short across the gap between stock rail and the open point blade?

?

Simon, can I just clarify that you have isolating gaps between the frog and the switch rails and each switch rail is electrically connected to its stock rail via the copper clad sleeper so one switch rail is always –ve and the other always +ve?

?

Many thanks again

Regards

Phil

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Rae
Sent: 18 April 2020 12:50
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Turnout wiring

?

I built 5 points for my 'Bunny Mine' layout using the Roy Link type 2 plans but copper-clad sleepers. The frog and switch rails are live. The polarity is switched either by a slider switch which controls the point via 'wire in tube' or in one case via a rocker switch from a point control rod. A photo of one point pre-installation attached.?

?

Further details available if you are interested, there is a thread on NGRM.

?

David

?

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 at 11:48, Simon Howard via <howard729=[email protected]> wrote:

Phil,
?
When I first started build points I used a sleeper made of copper clad either side of any isolating gaps to hold the rails in place with solder and then put cosmetic chairs in the right position to achieve that all charged look.
?
These days I use brass chairs and solder them to the sleeper strip to achieve the same result.?
?
I, as you have mentioned, keep the frog/crossing assembly as one unit and have the switch rails soldered to the CC sleeper strip to hold in place and cut the strip to provide the isolation gap in between them. This strip is then in turned soldered to the stock rail to achieve the power feed aspect of it.?
?
Switch rail wise I use a thinner section of The strip to solder the switch rails to a the tiebar and just cut the strip close to each rail to achieve the gap needed.
?
Hope this helps?
Simon?
?
?

On 18 Apr 2020, at 11:26, toones4 <phil.toone@...> wrote:
?Hi everyone, hope you are all keeping safe? I am hoping someone may be able to help with my current (no pun intended!) wiring dilemma. I am in the early stages of building a small o14 layout using Roy Link/KB Scale trackwork in the visible areas and hand built copper clad track using RL/KB templates off scene.? What I am struggling with is how to wire up the turnouts for DC and DCC.? I understand the basics but can't work out how Roy intended them to be wired? I assume as he used a brass tie bar both point blades are the same polarity and rely on contact with the stock rails to transmit power.? I note from the point building details on KB Scale's website, that the frog should be provided with a feed wire. I wish to use a Tortoise motor to switch frog polarity and also wish to provide power to the point blades in order not to rely on contact with the stock rails for power transmission. I cannot work out from the turnout building instructions whether the frog is electrically connected to the point blades at the pivot points or isolated. I was thinking the ideal way to wire the turnout would be the same as the recommended method of converting Peco Electrofrog points i.e. by electrically isolating the frog from the point blades and switching its polarity via the point motor auxiliary switches and then electrically bonding each point blade to its stock rail.? This would mean that each point blade is a fixed polarity eliminating any chance of the back of a wheel shorting across the point gap. The problem I foresee with this method, particularly on the RL/KB type 1 turnout (only 63mm in length) is the lack of sleepers to support the frog and point blades each side of the isolating gap between them. Also, the tie bar would have to be replaced with a non conductive material.

I would appreciate any comments, constructive criticism, pointing (!!) in the right direction (or even "what are you on about" type questions) etc. TIA

#7544

开云体育

Yes that’s correct isolating gaps between the switch rails and the frog and yes always connected to its corresponding switch rail.?

I’ve built points this way in most gauges from 2mm fine scale up to scale7 including 009, 5.5mm and 014

Show quoted text

On 18 Apr 2020, at 21:50, toones4 <phil.toone@...> wrote:

?
Thanks Simon and David for the very useful information.
?
David, am I right in saying that your turnouts have the switch rails connected to the frog (crossing) assembly by wire links at the pivot points so the frog and both switch rails (point blades) change polarity when the point is thrown.? I assume you have not had problems with the back of a wheel creating a short across the gap between stock rail and the open point blade?
?
Simon, can I just clarify that you have isolating gaps between the frog and the switch rails and each switch rail is electrically connected to its stock rail via the copper clad sleeper so one switch rail is always –ve and the other always +ve?
?
Many thanks again
Regards
Phil
?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Rae
Sent: 18 April 2020 12:50
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Turnout wiring
?
I built 5 points for my 'Bunny Mine' layout using the Roy Link type 2 plans but copper-clad sleepers. The frog and switch rails are live. The polarity is switched either by a slider switch which controls the point via 'wire in tube' or in one case via a rocker switch from a point control rod. A photo of one point pre-installation attached.?
?
Further details available if you are interested, there is a thread on NGRM.
?
David
?
On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 at 11:48, Simon Howard via <howard729=[email protected]> wrote:
Phil,
?
When I first started build points I used a sleeper made of copper clad either side of any isolating gaps to hold the rails in place with solder and then put cosmetic chairs in the right position to achieve that all charged look.
?
These days I use brass chairs and solder them to the sleeper strip to achieve the same result.?
?
I, as you have mentioned, keep the frog/crossing assembly as one unit and have the switch rails soldered to the CC sleeper strip to hold in place and cut the strip to provide the isolation gap in between them. This strip is then in turned soldered to the stock rail to achieve the power feed aspect of it.?
?
Switch rail wise I use a thinner section of The strip to solder the switch rails to a the tiebar and just cut the strip close to each rail to achieve the gap needed.
?
Hope this helps?
Simon?
?
?

On 18 Apr 2020, at 11:26, toones4 <phil.toone@...> wrote:
?Hi everyone, hope you are all keeping safe? I am hoping someone may be able to help with my current (no pun intended!) wiring dilemma. I am in the early stages of building a small o14 layout using Roy Link/KB Scale trackwork in the visible areas and hand built copper clad track using RL/KB templates off scene.? What I am struggling with is how to wire up the turnouts for DC and DCC.? I understand the basics but can't work out how Roy intended them to be wired? I assume as he used a brass tie bar both point blades are the same polarity and rely on contact with the stock rails to transmit power.? I note from the point building details on KB Scale's website, that the frog should be provided with a feed wire. I wish to use a Tortoise motor to switch frog polarity and also wish to provide power to the point blades in order not to rely on contact with the stock rails for power transmission. I cannot work out from the turnout building instructions whether the frog is electrically connected to the point blades at the pivot points or isolated. I was thinking the ideal way to wire the turnout would be the same as the recommended method of converting Peco Electrofrog points i.e. by electrically isolating the frog from the point blades and switching its polarity via the point motor auxiliary switches and then electrically bonding each point blade to its stock rail.? This would mean that each point blade is a fixed polarity eliminating any chance of the back of a wheel shorting across the point gap. The problem I foresee with this method, particularly on the RL/KB type 1 turnout (only 63mm in length) is the lack of sleepers to support the frog and point blades each side of the isolating gap between them. Also, the tie bar would have to be replaced with a non conductive material.

I would appreciate any comments, constructive criticism, pointing (!!) in the right direction (or even "what are you on about" type questions) etc. TIA