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Neil Sayer Baldwin 50hp


 

Hey Guy
Found a old Mashima 12x20 motor in the drawer and wondered if anyone had any experience building the Sayer Baldwin 50 hp kit in O14 (before I buy the kit?
look for any info you folks may have?
?Thanks?
joe gilmartin


 

I'm going to be interested in following this as I've got an unmade kit which I need to get started soon.
John


 

I built two but it is some years ago now. I think a motor came with it back then. It is an excellent straightforward kit. The bits all fit properly and there’s a proper etched bar frame chassis. As easy to build to 14mm as 16.5 gauge.?

Personally I wouldn’t use an old Mashima as the reason to buy the kit. Snap it up while you can, the kits ?have been out of stock for years now. I would put a High Level HL 1320 in it. Twice as powerful and far better slow running than the mashima ?

Paul?


 

Thanks Paul?
?I pulled the trigger this AM and ordered the loco
Now I?need to investigate your suggestion on the Hi Sense 1320 motor at the least I have the 1220 if I don’t have success?
Were there any pitfalls I need to pay attention to?
Thank you for your assistance in this matter?
regards
joe gilmartin?


 

This is the motor from High Level. The Mashima is a perfectly good motor, but these are IMHO much better. Almost as good as a Swiss Maxon or Faulhaber at ?60+.?


 

Joe, I’m afraid I can’t really remember what the pitfalls were when building them as it’s almost ten years ago. I did one in 014 as Moelwyn running in the 1920s with the fuel tank moved and cab altered slightly. A second for a friend in 0-16.5 with scratchbuilt frame extensions and pony truck for Moelwyn as in 2006. I do remember that you have to follow the instructions very carefully when bending up the frames, I think they are like the Slaters Lyn kit with double thickness nickel silver soldered together like a set of coupling rods. The bonnet comes as a one piece resin moulding which is easy.?

Put the build on NGRM or here.?

Paul?


 

Paul again thank you?
Great info now the wait begins LoL
joe gilmartin?


 

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It is a well thought out kit but many of the parts are small fabrications from etched brass and I found them very fiddly! One area that I really struggled with was the pick-ups. One side is live which is okay, the other side has an etched strip which is intended to wipe the back of the wheel rims. Space is tight and I just couldn’t get this to work properly in 014. My eventual solution was to bend this strip over its fixing bolt so that it now wipes on the wheel tread rather than the back of the rim. It was really fiddly to fit as space is so tight but so far seems to be working acceptably.

?

One thing to bear in mind is that the instructions (like so many kits) are on a CD/DVD which was a great idea at the time but many mobile devices don’t have these drives.? I think some manufacturers are now making their instructions either downloadable or just putting them on line.? However, I suspect someone on here would be able to help if you have any difficulties yourself.

?

There are a few brief words on my build on my website including what I did to the plastic cranks.

?

?

I wish I had thought about Paul’s High Level motor upgrade as the Mashima doesn’t appear to have the slow speed performance I desire.? I may try changing it to see if it helps.

?

Cheers, Robin

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jogil476 via groups.io
Sent: 03 September 2022 20:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Neil Sayer Baldwin 50hp

?

Paul again thank you?
Great info now the wait begins LoL
joe gilmartin?


 

I have one built but not running properly yet in O14. My issue has been keeping the plastic cranks quartered, I'm on my 2nd set and still having problems. I intend fretting out some replacements from brass. You also need to watch the clearance for the cranks on the springs which protrude from the chassis. I still think its a great kit and builds up with character.


 

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I agree Duncan, one of my cranks was already split before fitting so I carefully bored them out to take 2mm top hat brass bushes.? The brass takes the stress induced by the Loctite used to retain the cranks when quartering is set and stops any stress getting to the plastic crank itself.? For completely different reasons I have replaced my cranks with brass ones cut from 1mm thick bar.? Generally these have worked well but I think I have got the centres wrong on one of the gearbox drive shaft cranks.? Mine runs better but not as well as I would like for shunting at exhibitions.? I think I need to remove the offending crank, fill the crankpin hole and re-drill to the right centres. Just need to find out which crank is wrong! I don’t know how I managed to get the centres wrong as they were all jig drilled the same but I suspect that a surface imperfection threw the small diameter drill off a bit.

?

Cheers, Robin

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Duncan Croser
Sent: 04 September 2022 13:05
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Neil Sayer Baldwin 50hp

?

I have one built but not running properly yet in O14. My issue has been keeping the plastic cranks quartered, I'm on my 2nd set and still having problems. I intend fretting out some replacements from brass. You also need to watch the clearance for the cranks on the springs which protrude from the chassis. I still think its a great kit and builds up with character.


 

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I have one of these to build as well.?

Mine is an early version with motor included, though might look at changing for one of EDM’s new motor drive combinations with those comments about slow speed running.?

Shall have to bookmark Robin’s build notes for when I do mine. Remember Dave Taylor building one and having issues with cracked cranks and suggested easing the holes and securing with loctite.?

Andrew

On Sep 4, 2022, at 08:35, Robin Edwards <robinglos@...> wrote:

?

It is a well thought out kit but many of the parts are small fabrications from etched brass and I found them very fiddly! One area that I really struggled with was the pick-ups. One side is live which is okay, the other side has an etched strip which is intended to wipe the back of the wheel rims. Space is tight and I just couldn’t get this to work properly in 014. My eventual solution was to bend this strip over its fixing bolt so that it now wipes on the wheel tread rather than the back of the rim. It was really fiddly to fit as space is so tight but so far seems to be working acceptably.

?

One thing to bear in mind is that the instructions (like so many kits) are on a CD/DVD which was a great idea at the time but many mobile devices don’t have these drives.? I think some manufacturers are now making their instructions either downloadable or just putting them on line.? However, I suspect someone on here would be able to help if you have any difficulties yourself.

?

There are a few brief words on my build on my website including what I did to the plastic cranks.

?

?

I wish I had thought about Paul’s High Level motor upgrade as the Mashima doesn’t appear to have the slow speed performance I desire.? I may try changing it to see if it helps.

?

Cheers, Robin

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jogil476 via groups.io
Sent: 03 September 2022 20:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Neil Sayer Baldwin 50hp

?

Paul again thank you?
Great info now the wait begins LoL
joe gilmartin?


 

Robin
I like your use of the top hat bearings as I am intrinsically lazy (sorry efficient).? Am i correct in assuming? you left the brim of the hat behind the crank ?

Regards
Duncan


 

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Duncan,

Yes I left the brim of the hat behind the crank.? At the time I didn’t have any small diameter bearings so I had to open out the hole in the crank quite a bit.? You have to be careful as the plastic is quite soft and I think it would be quite easy to get the enlarged hole off centre.

Regards,

Robin

?


 
Edited

Some years ago I bought a 90% completed one which didn't run well. A tweak to the quartering sorted it to smooth and acceptable, and a stay-alive on the DCC made it wonderful!

I absolutely agree about the HI 1320 - a lovely motor, and greatly better than the mashimas. I'm fitting one with a load-hauler gearbox to my Gas works Peckett, which being RC will only get fed 3.7V max, so I need it's low end performance.

Here's a short piece of it running.


 

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That is stunning Giles, I might send you my Baldwin for a ‘Tweak’!? That’s the sort of running I was hoping for but I’m not quite there yet.? Further investigation has revealed that one of the uninsulated wheels has a very pronounced wobble so I need to investigate the little brass bush that has been pressed into the wheel.

?

Cheers, Robin

?

?


I absolutely agree about the HI 1320 - a lovely motor, and greatly better than the mashimas. I'm fitting one with a load-hauler gearbox to my Gas works Peckett, which being RC will only get fed 3.7V max, so I need it's low end performance.

Here's a short piece of it running.