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Hello, I have read that one should really use Sundeala board for laying o14 trackage but will I be okay to use MDF if I pre drill the spike holes? Also, I see that the track sections are made in short sections for the portable track and I was wondering how you go about wiring these together as there are no Peco type fishplates to pass the power feed? Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.
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Hi Peter
A consensus is unlikely to be ever achieved for track bases. I use thin foam under the sleepers on a ply base. Drilling should be fine - a sharpened piece of piano wire will suffice and break far less often.
I would make your rails 2 or 3 sections long with cosmetic joints in between. You will need to power each rail. Rail joiners do not conduct reliably and ruin the scale appearance unless buried.
Hope this helps
John
Sent from
On 29 Jan 2017, at 14:20, "petercane44@... [O14]" < O14@...> wrote:
?
Hello, I have read that one should really use Sundeala board for laying o14 trackage but will I be okay to use MDF if I pre drill the spike holes? Also, I see that the track sections are made in short sections for the portable track and I was wondering how you go about wiring these together as there are no Peco type fishplates to pass the power feed? Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.
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Peter.
For spikes, a material like Sundeala board (or, in America, Homasote) really is essential in my opinion. Possibly you can use other materials - but pre-drilling the holes will be a necessity and an undersized drill will be needed to ensure the spikes grip into the material. The beauty of genuine Sundeala board is that, if you make a hole with a point, it will tend to ‘self heal’ - thus it closes around the spike given an excellent grip.
As for wiring each rail, just solder a led from fine wire to the underside of the foot of the rail and run it down through the baseboard through a pre-drilled hole. Once ballasted this will be invisible. I admit though, to cheating on NG Sand & Gravel - using longer rail lengths but with the rail joints simulated as per the ‘Product Handbook’.
Roy
Tel:01766 530784
email: rclpubs@...website:www.narrowgaugeandindustrial.co.uk
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Hello, I have read that one should really use Sundeala board for laying o14 trackage but will I be okay to use MDF if I pre drill the spike holes? Also, I see that the track sections are made in short sections for the portable track and I was wondering how you go about wiring these together as there are no Peco type fishplates to pass the power feed? Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.
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Hi. I quite agree with John. We all do things differently. I think the beauty of modelling in 014 is that it is basically a scale gauge combination for folk who want to get it right. So as in all my modelling, I aim to model the 'real thing' not another model. The track sub base does not matter as long as it's flat and stable. You could use an old snooker table but the slate might make it a little heavy....
My first layout in 014 had a ply base with cork underlay. The track is early Festiniog built using S scale society code 95 bullhead with white metal chairs on ply sleepers glued with cyano. The new layout (not 014 but 017.5) uses peco code 80 flat bottom rail spiked to ply sleepers to represent Leek and Manifold on an mdf base and cork. The spikes are not long enough to penetrate the mdf.
Please never rely on fishplates to conduct current; it is unreliable. Solder a dropper wire to every length of rail.
John has not mentioned the o14group.org website where you will find his excellent article on his track building. My layout Dinas was written up in the excellent Narrow Gauge and Industrial Revue.
Paul
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Have a look at proto87.org for lovely little etched spikes. Paul.
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For KB scale track I solder a wire neatly in place so it looks like the head of a track-spike; it gets easy after the first few attempts!? Feed the wire through the pre-drilled hole in the sleeper (and through the baseboard if appropriate) - then fit the scale spikes.? As John C suggested lay a number of scale panels from one piece of rail.? Nick the top surface with a fine saw and fit the cosmetic fish plates.? No one will ever spot the subterfuge.
Personally, I hate Sundela board!
Cheers
David website:? www.rhyd.weebly.com
From: "John Clutterbuck jclutterbuck2001@... [O14]"
To: O14
Sent: Sunday, 29 January 2017, 14:38
Subject: Re: [O14] Laying o14 track on 6mm mdf
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Hi Peter
A consensus is unlikely to be ever achieved for track bases. I use thin foam under the sleepers on a ply base. Drilling should be fine - a sharpened piece of piano wire will suffice and break far less often.
I would make your rails 2 or 3 sections long with cosmetic joints in between. You will need to power each rail. Rail joiners do not conduct reliably and ruin the scale appearance unless buried.
Hope this helps
John
Sent from
On 29 Jan 2017, at 14:20, "petercane44@... [O14]" < O14@...> wrote:
?
Hello, I have read that one should really use Sundeala board for laying o14 trackage but will I be okay to use MDF if I pre drill the spike holes? Also, I see that the track sections are made in short sections for the portable track and I was wondering how you go about wiring these together as there are no Peco type fishplates to pass the power feed? Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.
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Many thanks gentlemen for your help with track work and what to put it on.
Like you say, there are all sorts of options but to be safe I will go for what Roy suggested and that's Sundeala board.
I like the dodge about using a piece of wire as electrical pick up but it look like a track spike to the onlooker. That was a good tip.
Also to keep the sections as long as possible but saw little slots in the rail at the correct lengths. I suppose the train will also clickety clack as well?
It doesn't mention anywhere about whether the plastic sleepers are glued to the board first?
I will now put an order into KB scale for my track work .
I particularly like the method the points are made and the way the blades pivot.
I was never really impressed with the ready made Peco 009 points whereas the blades pivot on a metal fish plate. When painted, weathered etc and after a few years use they are just crying to fail.
The 014 track system looks to me to be well thought out and it will give good service.
( if correctly and carefully built )
I have never in the past paid to much attention to track but the more I look at it the more I see the point in all this.
Thanks for all your help.
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Thanks for starting a good discussion Peter.
On the basis that the only silly question is the unasked one...
I've been reading the name in model mags since I was a teenager but never remember seeing it by name in any of the diy chains nor local merchants I've used.
Is Sundeala just a brand name for a particular style of board - and is that the same as that used for pin boards/ noticeboards, or the type of lightweight fibre board sold as insulation/underlay for laminate floors?
I've a quantity of the latter left over and plan to try it with Roy's (/KB Scale) system on a test track soon.
Cheers
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Show quoted text
On 29 Jan 2017, at 22:09, Peter Cane petercane44@... [O14] < O14@...> wrote:
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Many thanks gentlemen for your help with track work and what to put it on.
Like you say, there are all sorts of options but to be safe I will go for what Roy suggested and that's Sundeala board.
I like the dodge about using a piece of wire as electrical pick up but it look like a track spike to the onlooker. That was a good tip.
Also to keep the sections as long as possible but saw little slots in the rail at the correct lengths. I suppose the train will also clickety clack as well?
It doesn't mention anywhere about whether the plastic sleepers are glued to the board first?
I will now put an order into KB scale for my track work .
I particularly like the method the points are made and the way the blades pivot.
I was never really impressed with the ready made Peco 009 points whereas the blades pivot on a metal fish plate. When painted, weathered etc and after a few years use they are just crying to fail.
The 014 track system looks to me to be well thought out and it will give good service.
( if correctly and carefully built )
I have never in the past paid to much attention to track but the more I look at it the more I see the point in all this.
Thanks for all your help.
|
I have used 6mm MDF as a track base for O14 track made using code 70 FB rail and KBscale sleepers and spikes. I used Plasticweld to attach the sleepers (carefully aligned!) to the MDF and then pre-drilled holes for the spikes using a 0,7mm drill in a pin-vice. Works perfectly and is remarkably easy to do.
If you go the soldered “dummy spike” route for the power feed to each length of rail, I found the easiest way was to drill a hole (again using a 0,7mm drill) through the web of the rail and then solder the feed wire into that before bending the wire down as a dummy spike. You have to clean up the other side of the rail using cutters and then a file, but it doesn’t take long to do and with this arrangement the feed wire will never come loose. I used bare copper, stripped from a suitable mains cable, for my feed wires, below the board they are soldered to insulation-covered wires which replicate the running rails above them; obviously you have to pare off the insulation at each point where the copper feed wires will be soldered to them.
David Woodcock
Champlon, Belgique
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Thank you David
That was useful advice.
There are so many different views about this subject that it really is a toss up isnt it?
As I am a new comer to 014 I must listen listen listen and then decide and act.
Thanks again for your input.
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Simon,
While there are Sundeala ‘look-alikes’ it is best to go for the ‘real thing’. In appearance it is a grey board, either 6 or 9mm thick, smooth on one side and rough on the other. ?It needs good support, otherwise it can sag - plus, being made from compressed paper, it is sensitive to moisture.
The last Sundeala I purchased was from:
DIY stores and builders merchants often stock similar but not branded boards - which may, or may not, be as good.
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Show quoted text
Thanks for starting a good discussion Peter.
On the basis that the only silly question is the unasked one...
I've been reading the name in model mags since I was a teenager but never remember seeing it by name in any of the diy chains nor local merchants I've used.
Is Sundeala just a brand name for a particular style of board - and is that the same as that used for pin boards/ noticeboards, or the type of lightweight fibre board sold as insulation/underlay for laminate floors?
I've a quantity of the latter left over and plan to try it with Roy's (/KB Scale) system on a test track soon.
Cheers
?Many thanks gentlemen for your help with track work and what to put it on.
Like you say, there are all sorts of options but to be safe I will go for what Roy suggested and that's Sundeala board.
I like the dodge about using a piece of wire as electrical pick up but it look like a track spike to the onlooker. That was a good tip.
Also to keep the sections as long as possible but saw little slots in the rail at the correct lengths. I suppose the train will also clickety clack as well?
It doesn't mention anywhere about whether the plastic sleepers are glued to the board first?
I will now put an order into KB scale for my track work .
I particularly like the method the points are made and the way the blades pivot.
I was never really impressed with the ready made Peco 009 points whereas the blades pivot on a metal fish plate. When painted, weathered etc and after a few years use they are just crying to fail.
The 014 track system looks to me to be well thought out and it will give good service.
( if correctly and carefully built )
I have never in the past paid to much attention to track but the more I look at it the more I see the point in all this.
Thanks for all your help.
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Apologies I don’t model in 14mm gauge. However my question regards running noise. ? What steps do you take, if any, to minimise noise transferred through staples to MDF. ? Tony S ? Ilford & West Essex MRC ? ?
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Hi Tony
We are not gaugist here - only interested in helping each other try and get it right.
I mount all my track on a thin foam base, more to allow expansion, but it certainly reduces noise too. You then need short spikes that only go through the sleepers. This is becoming fairly standard practice in the Scale 7 community although they tend to use a? thicker foam.
John
Sent from
On 30 Jan 2017, at 10:46, "'Tony S' tony.spencer@... [O14]" < O14@...> wrote:
?
Apologies I don’t model in 14mm gauge. However my question regards running noise. ? What steps do you take, if any, to minimise noise transferred through staples to MDF. ? Tony S ? Ilford & West Essex MRC ? ?
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Peter,
Re gluing (and other matters), there is a guide on the KBScale website at?
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www.kbscale.com
Track & Turnouts Prototype Notes Real industrial narrow gauge railways were often transitory in nature. In addition, almost without exception they were built as ...
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David H
Chelfham O14
From: O14@... on behalf of Peter Cane petercane44@... [O14]
Sent: 29 January 2017 22:09
To: O14@...
Subject: Re: [O14] Laying o14 track on 6mm mdf
?
?
Many thanks gentlemen for your help with track work and what to put it on.
Like you say, there are all sorts of options but to be safe I will go for what Roy suggested and that's Sundeala board.
I like the dodge about using a piece of wire as electrical pick up but it look like a track spike to the onlooker. That was a good tip.
Also to keep the sections as long as possible but saw little slots in the rail at the correct lengths. I suppose the train will also clickety clack as well?
It doesn't mention anywhere about whether the plastic sleepers are glued to the board first?
I will now put an order into KB scale for my track work .
I particularly like the method the points are made and the way the blades pivot.
I was never really impressed with the ready made Peco 009 points whereas the blades pivot on a metal fish plate. When painted, weathered etc and after a few years use they are just crying to fail.
The 014 track system looks to me to be well thought out and it will give good service.
( if correctly and carefully built )
I have never in the past paid to much attention to track but the more I look at it the more I see the point in all this.
Thanks for all your help.
|
I should have added that the last Sundeala board I got was from Travis Perkins, who had a suitable size off-cut so I didn't have to buy an 8'x4' sheet. The chap selling it was horrified at the full price so gave me a large discount: I didn't tell him how
much cheaper his 'full price' was compared to model shops!
David
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Show quoted text
From: O14@... on behalf of David Hughes formerchurchwarden@... [O14]
Sent: 30 January 2017 16:50
To: O14@...
Subject: Re: [O14] Laying o14 track on 6mm mdf
?
?
Peter,
Re gluing (and other matters), there is a guide on the KBScale website at?
|
www.kbscale.com
Track & Turnouts Prototype Notes Real industrial narrow gauge railways were often transitory in nature. In addition, almost without exception they were built as ...
|
David H
Chelfham O14
From: O14@... <O14@...> on behalf of Peter Cane petercane44@... [O14]
Sent: 29 January 2017 22:09
To: O14@...
Subject: Re: [O14] Laying o14 track on 6mm mdf
?
?
Many thanks gentlemen for your help with track work and what to put it on.
Like you say, there are all sorts of options but to be safe I will go for what Roy suggested and that's Sundeala board.
I like the dodge about using a piece of wire as electrical pick up but it look like a track spike to the onlooker. That was a good tip.
Also to keep the sections as long as possible but saw little slots in the rail at the correct lengths. I suppose the train will also clickety clack as well?
It doesn't mention anywhere about whether the plastic sleepers are glued to the board first?
I will now put an order into KB scale for my track work .
I particularly like the method the points are made and the way the blades pivot.
I was never really impressed with the ready made Peco 009 points whereas the blades pivot on a metal fish plate. When painted, weathered etc and after a few years use they are just crying to fail.
The 014 track system looks to me to be well thought out and it will give good service.
( if correctly and carefully built )
I have never in the past paid to much attention to track but the more I look at it the more I see the point in all this.
Thanks for all your help.
|
Thank you David for the heads up re gluing the sleepers. I have read that KB scale instruction several times now and completely missed it every time. I worry about myself sometimes!
Thanks anyway.
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David, I have ordered mine from Cheltenham Model Centre the same place Roy got his from.? The sheet is 4'x2' genuine grey Sundeala used for railway modelling.? It was ?22.50 from ebay which I think is reasonable.? I am into micro layouts at the mo so enough for a few there.?
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Show quoted text
On 30 Jan 2017, at 16:54, David Hughes formerchurchwarden@... [O14] < O14@...> wrote:
?
I should have added that the last Sundeala board I got was from Travis Perkins, who had a suitable size off-cut so I didn't have to buy an 8'x4' sheet. The chap selling it was horrified at the full price so gave me a large discount: I didn't tell him how
much cheaper his 'full price' was compared to model shops!
David
?
Peter,
Re gluing (and other matters), there is a guide on the KBScale website at?
|
Track & Turnouts Prototype Notes Real industrial narrow gauge railways were often transitory in nature. In addition, almost without exception they were built as ...
|
David H
Chelfham O14
?
Many thanks gentlemen for your help with track work and what to put it on.
Like you say, there are all sorts of options but to be safe I will go for what Roy suggested and that's Sundeala board.
I like the dodge about using a piece of wire as electrical pick up but it look like a track spike to the onlooker. That was a good tip.
Also to keep the sections as long as possible but saw little slots in the rail at the correct lengths. I suppose the train will also clickety clack as well?
It doesn't mention anywhere about whether the plastic sleepers are glued to the board first?
I will now put an order into KB scale for my track work .
I particularly like the method the points are made and the way the blades pivot.
I was never really impressed with the ready made Peco 009 points whereas the blades pivot on a metal fish plate. When painted, weathered etc and after a few years use they are just crying to fail.
The 014 track system looks to me to be well thought out and it will give good service.
( if correctly and carefully built )
I have never in the past paid to much attention to track but the more I look at it the more I see the point in all this.
Thanks for all your help.
|
Paul Holmes
David Hughes