|
Hi all
I have been offered the possibility of acquiring an NGG16. It is a fully built Backwoods kit, modified with different motors and gears (not yet sure what) but built, as far as I know, as a generic Garratt, rather than a specific engine. Big question, how easy would this be to regauge to 14mm? Would both entire chassis need dismantling, valve gear and all or is there a way of pushing the wheels in on the axles without disturbing all the frames and gear??
Cheers all
Paul?
|
If its built using the supplied wheels they’re Romford so on shouldered axles so, no pushing them in won’t work. I think you’d end up dismantling the lot ? Paul Martin ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Paul Holmes
Sent: 27 April 2020 16:02
To: [email protected]
Subject: [o14] Garratt conversion? Hi all
I have been offered the possibility of acquiring an NGG16. It is a fully built Backwoods kit, modified with different motors and gears (not yet sure what) but built, as far as I know, as a generic Garratt, rather than a specific engine. Big question, how easy would this be to regauge to 14mm? Would both entire chassis need dismantling, valve gear and all or is there a way of pushing the wheels in on the axles without disturbing all the frames and gear??
Cheers all
Paul?
|
Hi Paul
That sounds a lot of work for a loco that doesn’t really fit my layout theme of the top end of the FR in the late 1800s... but with some later interlopers like your Merddin.?
I will ponder further?
cheers
Paul?
|
?I had to dismantle one engine of my NGG16 to deal with a loose wheel (yes, it can happen with Romfords), and the resultant damage to the flycranks.? This is not an easy job, as the kit underframe is designed to fold up around the assembled wheelsets, and once that is done the wheelsets cannot be removed.? I ended up making some new frame crossmembers to the exact dimensions between the frames of the engine as assembled, cutting apart the existing end frames and ?crossmembers to separate the side frames, then rebuilding ?the whole underframe assembly around the replacement wheelsets using the new crossmembers. Very much to my surprise it worked - but my heart was in my mouth throughout! And many, many thanks to the 7mmNGA/O14 group member in Australia who supplied the replacement flycranks - sorry I’ve mislaid your name! Allan Dare
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27 Apr 2020, at 16:07, Paul Martin <groups2@...> wrote:
? If its built using the supplied wheels they’re Romford so on shouldered axles so, no pushing them in won’t work. I think you’d end up dismantling the lot ? Paul Martin ? ? Hi all
I have been offered the possibility of acquiring an NGG16. It is a fully built Backwoods kit, modified with different motors and gears (not yet sure what) but built, as far as I know, as a generic Garratt, rather than a specific engine. Big question, how easy would this be to regauge to 14mm? Would both entire chassis need dismantling, valve gear and all or is there a way of pushing the wheels in on the axles without disturbing all the frames and gear??
Cheers all
Paul?
|
On Apr 27, 2020, at 16:19, Paul Holmes <heatonwood@...> wrote:
?Hi Paul
That sounds a lot of work for a loco that doesn’t really fit my layout theme of the top end of the FR in the late 1800s... but with some later interlopers like your Merddin.?
I will ponder further?
cheers
Paul?
Paul,
Finished as 138, would make for an appropriate later interloper for Dinas.
First time I saw an NGG16 was in the yard at Glan y Pwll.?
Not my photo, but this photo taken at the same time tells me it was back in 1997.
Andrew
|
Paul, ? As others have said, building to instructions traps the wheels. I have one part built where I've fitted axle boxes. If you decide to go ahead PM me with an address and I'll send you some works drawings, too big to e-mail.. You are right about generic, as far as I remember the tank is riveted but the profile matches the later series with welded tanks. The front and rear trucks have something like 7 or 8 parts, mine have 40+ to get it right. I tried memory wire reversing, John Clutterbuck did it with his K1 about the same time. It works, but only just and now I'm back on 16.5 , back on DC. Photos in SAR use aren't common, but by the time they were withdrawn I doubt any two had identical pipework. Some rivet tanks presumably corroded at the bottom so watch for tanks with riveted tops and welded bottoms. ? A friend has one in 16.5 ready built from Backwoods. and to be fair it runs like dream. It is on the original Faulhaber motors. ? You'll not get it up the incline on Dnas! ? Frank ?
|
I’ve got one to build and as everyone has said once built it traps the axles so I’m modifying the frames to have sprung high level horn blocks and a few other mods.?
The whole kit is a mixture of the different ones and when I can next get to the WHR I’m going to try and get some good photos of one particular one and go from there.?
Cheers
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27 Apr 2020, at 17:09, Frank Sharp via groups.io <frank.j.sharp@...> wrote:
? Paul, ? As others have said, building to instructions traps the wheels. I have one part built where I've fitted axle boxes. If you decide to go ahead PM me with an address and I'll send you some works drawings, too big to e-mail.. You are right about generic, as far as I remember the tank is riveted but the profile matches the later series with welded tanks. The front and rear trucks have something like 7 or 8 parts, mine have 40+ to get it right. I tried memory wire reversing, John Clutterbuck did it with his K1 about the same time. It works, but only just and now I'm back on 16.5 , back on DC. Photos in SAR use aren't common, but by the time they were withdrawn I doubt any two had identical pipework. Some rivet tanks presumably corroded at the bottom so watch for tanks with riveted tops and welded bottoms. ? A friend has one in 16.5 ready built from Backwoods. and to be fair it runs like dream. It is on the original Faulhaber motors. ? You'll not get it up the incline on Dnas! ? Frank ?
|
I am going off this idea with each message. It sounds like a big job with associated risks of getting it all wrong! It certainly won’t go up the incline, Frank, nor will it go through the next?planned extension to the layout, Tavarn Trip and Garnedd! Well, not without altering the tunnel mouths anyway (none if that is built yet). However, now I’m on my way as a trainee guard, it would be nice to have one of the current fleet to play with.....
cheers
Paul?
|
Paul, ? You once complained that my De Wintons were too late for Dinas 1869, you'd have problems explaining a NG G16! ? Frank ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Holmes
Sent: Monday, 27 April, 2020 18:19
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [o14] Garratt conversion? I am going off this idea with each message. It sounds like a big job with associated risks of getting it all wrong! It certainly won’t go up the incline, Frank, nor will it go through the next?planned extension to the layout, Tavarn Trip and Garnedd! Well, not without altering the tunnel mouths anyway (none if that is built yet). However, now I’m on my way as a trainee guard, it would be nice to have one of the current fleet to play with.....
cheers
Paul?
|
Trouble is, I have been tempted by too many projects now to stick to the timescale. Dinas Station is set in late 1860s but I now have stock from the 1860s right up to 2016... So the layout, once extended, ?will observe modelling rule No 1?
Its my railway and I will run what I like! The extension is planned to run down through Garnedd and then Tan-y-Bwlch as it was after the open fronted shed was built and still with a central siding.?
Cheers all and keep safe.?
|
I? think even if you got an unbuilt kit you would end up doing a lot of extra work (although you would be a lot quicker than me) but I suspect regauging one would be even more and you would effectively end up making the engines again. This link shows an excellent build in O16.5 and using Paul's valve gear:?ohn
|
Paul,
The frames on the NNG16 are the same for either gauge, if you are able to
undo the wheels, you can refit it with the correct gauge wheels, and speaking of
wheels don’t use Romford wheels, you could us the Slater’s #7832BP 2’8” 4 hole
disc wheels with #X7NG060 14mm 1/8” axles and use the #7319 axle extension, or
use the #7833A 2’9” 9 spoke wheels.
?
For all you fella’s that have these Garratt kits, you do realise the kit is
a mess with having the coupling height set to HO scale height where it should be
13.1mm above rail height at the centre of the coupling, also the headstock is
completely wrong with the hole for the water pipe on the wrong side, and because
they modified the headstock to have the wrong coupling height they also omitted
the 2 cutaways on each side at the bottom of the headstock where it joins the
cowcatcher.
However there is good news too, I have made new etchings to correct this
and will soon get them commercially etched in the kit you get 2 new deck plates
with the raised grid decking plate you get a new sub-assemble with the correct
headstock plate and new better cowcatcher, and you will have a choice if you
want the earlier version Garratt without the oil pump on the footplate or you
can choose the kit with the oil pump on the deck, you also get the oil pump and
housing as part of the kit.
I also have the artwork to do the Cockrell type tank as per #87 WHR and
also the artwork for the round top front tank for the earlier Garratt’s, I’m
also about to release a range of brass kits for SAR rollingstock, but that
doesn’t include the DZ or B wagon, Paul Martin has them already available.
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [o14] Garratt conversion
?
I
am going off this idea with each message. It sounds like a big job with
associated risks of getting it all wrong! It certainly won’t go up the incline,
Frank, nor will it go through the next planned extension to the layout, Tavarn
Trip and Garnedd! Well, not without altering the tunnel mouths anyway (none if
that is built yet). However, now I’m on my way as a trainee guard, it would be
nice to have one of the current fleet to play with..... cheers Paul?
|
The oil pump you see in the photos of Nick’s Garratt building project is
one of my etchings, just for the record too, for all that beautiful work that
Nick did on the Garratt and the paintjob done professionally it got sent over to
its owner in Canada and Canadian customs got to it and tore one of the engine
units basically in half.
?
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: [o14] Garratt conversion
?
I?
think even if you got an unbuilt kit you would end up doing a lot of extra work
(although you would be a lot quicker than me) but I suspect regauging one would
be even more and you would effectively end up making the engines again. This
link shows an excellent build in O16.5 and using Paul's valve gear: ohn
|
Brian,
Any idea exactly what Canadian Customs was looking for???
John A. Craig
Brenham, Texas
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The oil pump you see in the photos of Nick’s Garratt building project is one of my etchings, just for the record too, for all that beautiful work that Nick did on the Garratt and the paintjob done professionally it got sent over to its owner in Canada
and Canadian customs got to it and tore one of the engine units basically in half.
?
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: [o14] Garratt conversion
?
I? think even if you got an unbuilt kit you would end up doing a lot of extra work (although you would be a lot quicker than me) but I suspect regauging one would be even more and you would effectively end up making the engines again. This link shows an excellent
build in O16.5 and using Paul's valve gear: ohn
|
Who knows they have x-ray gear nowadays they don’t have to take anything
apart, who ever did it should be taken out the back and flogged to death.
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: [o14] Garratt conversion
?
Brian,
?
Any
idea exactly what Canadian Customs was looking for???
?
John
A. Craig
Brenham,
Texas
?
The oil pump you see in the photos of Nick’s Garratt building project is
one of my etchings, just for the record too, for all that beautiful work that
Nick did on the Garratt and the paintjob done professionally it got sent over to
its owner in Canada and Canadian customs got to it and tore one of the engine
units basically in half.
?
?
Brian
Rawbelle
County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: [o14] Garratt conversion
?
I?
think even if you got an unbuilt kit you would end up doing a lot of extra work
(although you would be a lot quicker than me) but I suspect regauging one would
be even more and you would effectively end up making the engines again. This
link shows an excellent build in O16.5 and using Paul's valve gear: ohn
|
Happily, the Drummond T-9 which Nick built for me made it through U.S. Customs without a similar maiming! ?Somewhere "en route", it did receive enough of a jolt to dislodge four of six Tender Axlebox/Spring Castings without damaging or dislodging anything else,
including Coal Load and Figures! ?Still puzzling over what might have caused such "specific" damage!
JAC
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Who knows they have x-ray gear nowadays they don’t have to take anything apart, who ever did it should be taken out the back and flogged to death.
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: [o14] Garratt conversion
?
Brian,
?
Any idea exactly what Canadian Customs was looking for???
?
John A. Craig
Brenham, Texas
?
The oil pump you see in the photos of Nick’s Garratt building project is one of my etchings, just for the record too, for all that beautiful work that Nick did on the Garratt and the paintjob done professionally it got sent over to its owner in Canada
and Canadian customs got to it and tore one of the engine units basically in half.
?
?
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
?
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: [o14] Garratt conversion
?
I? think even if you got an unbuilt kit you would end up doing a lot of extra work (although you would be a lot quicker than me) but I suspect regauging one would be even more and you would effectively end up making the engines again. This link shows an excellent
build in O16.5 and using Paul's valve gear: ohn
|
I live in Canada and some of the “meatheads” that work at the border and customs are absolute morons.?
we have a large portable layout that we have taken across the border many times. The customs idiots have inspected it and just dealing with them makes me sick. It’s the old saying give a moron a gun and a badge and he thinks his has power supreme.?
cheers,
keith
|
I suspect that, come January 2021, the owners of the rather good layouts that cross the English Channel (both ways) for exhibition from time to time will be thinking that your border control people are absolute saints. After nearly half-a-century of being in the “Common Market” they are seemingly about to learn what “taking back control” really means - and it has a very nasty ??? sting in the tail in addition to all the extra work involved.
David WOODCOCK
|
Paul Holmes
Paul Martin
Allan Dare