I have been contemplating ?buying a set of Fast Track jigs for Sn3. The gauge is 14.3 mm.

Is this close enough for O14 kits?

The difference in gauge is not a problem as proved by the many of us who have used Sn3 track in hidden sections, fiddle yards etc.

However, there is a critical relationship between gauge, back-to-back, over check rails, and check to opposite rail which if not compatible will cause running issues. A proper study and comparison of the o14 and Sn3 standards is probably required. That said I know some have successfully used Shinohara Sn3 points in fiddle yards.

John

#6486

It's not 'right' in that 14.3mm gauge is actually 24 7/8" gauge, but I use 14mm gauge for the FfR and that should really run on 13.72mm track! That said, my stock runs through Shinohara points and plain track quite happily in the fiddle yard on Dinas. The shinohara track is quite delicate and minor knocks have ripped the rail out of the chairs quite easily. I think it is still available from Scalelink.?

If you are going to make your own track, then why not stick to 14mm gauge. I have never used posh jigs any way, just a digital vernier and a piece of thin 1/32" ply cut to exactly 14 or latterly 17.5mm width.?

As John says the critical dimensions are the wheel/flange/back to back/check rail clearance. Once those are settled then you can build a railway to any gauge you fancy. The limiting factor with that approach excludes the use of Romford wheels without a lot of fiddling about as they have a fixed back to back. Any wheel that is a push fit onto its axle may be fixed on an axle wherever you like.?

I never quite worked out why the fabulous Resau Breton line that Gordon built was to 18.2mm gauge and not 20mm as that would have been just as easy but correct.?

I will post a few photos of the evolving 17.5mm track later today.?

Paul?

#6487

Thanks for the info - they have a neat jig for making frogs and today, Black Friday - they are not quite as 'posh' :).
--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Fri, 11/25/16, John Clutterbuck jclutterbuck2001@... [O14] <O14@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [O14] Fast Tracks
 To: O14@...
 Date: Friday, November 25, 2016, 3:29 AM


 ?









       The difference in gauge is not a problem as proved
 by the many of us who have used Sn3 track in hidden
 sections, fiddle yards etc.



 However, there is a critical relationship between gauge,
 back-to-back, over check rails, and check to opposite rail
 which if not compatible will cause running issues. A proper
 study and comparison of the o14 and Sn3 standards is
 probably required. That said I know some have successfully
 used Shinohara Sn3 points in fiddle yards.



 John









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#6488

At the sharper radii used with the prototype 2 foot gauge, especially in “industrial” use (say, for example, with Hudson track), the gauge would be widened by half-an-inch or even more, so a model track gauge of 14,3 mm would be more accurate than 14,00 mm on curves.

As John has said, it is the back-to-back measurement in relation to check-rails in points that is critical. In the unlikely event that it proves to be a problem, use the jigs to build all the running rails and then use a custom made spacer (aluminium, blackened brass or steel or even wood) to space out the check rails from the adjacent running rails when fixing them in position. The check (wing) rails at the crossing in the point shouldn’t pose a problem unless your flanges are too course.

David Woodcock
Champlon, Belgique

#6489

Hi Craig,

I have had a go at comparing the NMRA standard at: against the O14 standard at:

It looks like the O14 back-to-back (min 12.4mm) will easily clear the Sn3 max Span of 12.01mm (.473")
and the Sn3 C (CN in O14 terms) min of 13.18mm (.519") just exceeds the O14 C (13.1mm max) thus it all should work.

I would be grateful if someone could check my calculations.

John

Bagnall284

#6491

开云体育

John,

I can confirm that, when I still had my 'NG Sand & Gravel O14 layout, it was quite possible to run a PBL Sn3 D&RGW boxcar through the turnouts without problems. It seems that, through some sort of serendipity, both Sn3 and O14 standard track and wheels are, more or less, compatible. It was certainly not by design - the standards I created back in the 1980s were, as noted elsewhere, based on those for EM(BRMSb 1950s) 18mm, less 4mm.

A PFM C16 could even run on part of the layout, though the tight curves prevented much in the way of progress.

Roy

Show quoted text

On 25 Nov 2016, at 6:24 pm, jclutterbuck2001@... [O14] <O14@...> wrote:

?

Hi Craig,

I have had a go at comparing the NMRA standard at: against the O14 standard at:

It looks like the O14 back-to-back (min 12.4mm) will easily clear the Sn3 max Span of 12.01mm (.473")
and the Sn3 C (CN in O14 terms) min of 13.18mm (.519") just exceeds the O14 C (13.1mm max) thus it all should work.

I would be grateful if someone could check my calculations.

John

#6494

Hi Guys

Regarding the Shinohara Sn3 trackl there seems to have been a 'shift' in the standards.? The recent stuff is fine 'as is' and all my stock on Rhyd runs through it quite happily - although the frogs need regular cleaning for good pick up for short wheelbase locos.? The older points were tight over check rails but it was a matter of moments with a 1mm thick needle file to open them out.? These, too, now give faultless running (and the frogs can get away with less cleaning!)

All my curves, under about 42" radius, have the gauge widened to 14.2mm anyway.? Russel will haul a train of bow-siders around a 24" curve with no problems although Lew struggles below a 28" radius curve - but that is more to do with pony truck clearance than gauge!.

Cheers

David

Show quoted text

From: "jclutterbuck2001@... [O14]"
To: O14@...
Sent: Friday, 25 November 2016, 18:24
Subject: [O14] Re: Fast Tracks

Hi Craig,

I have had a go at comparing the NMRA standard at: against the O14 standard at:

It looks like the O14 back-to-back (min 12.4mm) will easily clear the Sn3 max Span of 12.01mm (.473")
and the Sn3 C (CN in O14 terms) min of 13.18mm (.519") just exceeds the O14 C (13.1mm max) thus it all should work.

I would be grateful if someone could check my calculations.

John

#6495

Thanks All - I'm glad I asked!

Cheers,

Craig
--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Sat, 11/26/16, David John davidphillipjohn@... [O14] <O14@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [O14] Re: Fast Tracks
 To: "O14@..." <O14@...>
 Date: Saturday, November 26, 2016, 7:19 AM


 ?









       Hi
 Guys
 Regarding
 the Shinohara Sn3 trackl there seems to have been a
 'shift' in the standards.? The recent stuff is fine
 'as is' and all my stock on Rhyd runs through it
 quite happily - although the frogs need regular cleaning for
 good pick up for short wheelbase locos.? The older points
 were tight over check rails but it was a matter of moments
 with a 1mm thick needle file to open them out.? These, too,
 now give faultless running (and the frogs can get away with
 less cleaning!)
 All my
 curves, under about 42" radius, have the gauge widened
 to 14.2mm anyway.? Russel will haul a train of bow-siders
 around a 24" curve with no problems although Lew
 struggles below a 28" radius curve - but that is more
 to do with pony truck clearance than gauge!.
 Cheers
 David


        From:
 "jclutterbuck2001@... [O14]"
 <O14@...>
  To: O14@...

  Sent: Friday, 25
 November 2016, 18:24
  Subject: [O14] Re: Fast
 Tracks


 ?









       Hi
 Craig,

 I have had a go at
 comparing the NMRA standard at: 
 against the O14 standard at: 


 It looks like the O14
 back-to-back (min 12.4mm) will easily clear the Sn3 max Span
 of 12.01mm (.473")
 and the Sn3 C (CN
 in O14 terms) min of 13.18mm (.519") just exceeds the
 O14 C (13.1mm max) thus it all should work.

 I would be grateful if someone
 could check my calculations.

 John
















 




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#6496

Craig, I'm glad you asked too, this has been a really useful thread! Will order some shinohara and experiment
Cheers
Geoff

Show quoted text

On 27 Nov 2016, at 2:06 am, "Craig Parry thrustanparry7144@... [O14]" <O14@...> wrote:

Thanks All - I'm glad I asked!

Cheers,

Craig
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 11/26/16, David John davidphillipjohn@... [O14] <O14@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [O14] Re: Fast Tracks
To: "O14@..." <O14@...>
Date: Saturday, November 26, 2016, 7:19 AM












      Hi
Guys
Regarding
the Shinohara Sn3 trackl there seems to have been a
'shift' in the standards.  The recent stuff is fine
'as is' and all my stock on Rhyd runs through it
quite happily - although the frogs need regular cleaning for
good pick up for short wheelbase locos.  The older points
were tight over check rails but it was a matter of moments
with a 1mm thick needle file to open them out.  These, too,
now give faultless running (and the frogs can get away with
less cleaning!)
All my
curves, under about 42" radius, have the gauge widened
to 14.2mm anyway.  Russel will haul a train of bow-siders
around a 24" curve with no problems although Lew
struggles below a 28" radius curve - but that is more
to do with pony truck clearance than gauge!.
Cheers
David


       From:
"jclutterbuck2001@... [O14]"
<O14@...>
 To: O14@...

 Sent: Friday, 25
November 2016, 18:24
 Subject: [O14] Re: Fast
Tracks












      Hi
Craig,

I have had a go at
comparing the NMRA standard at: 
against the O14 standard at: 


It looks like the O14
back-to-back (min 12.4mm) will easily clear the Sn3 max Span
of 12.01mm (.473")
and the Sn3 C (CN
in O14 terms) min of 13.18mm (.519") just exceeds the
O14 C (13.1mm max) thus it all should work.

I would be grateful if someone
could check my calculations.

John





















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------------------------------------
Posted by: Craig Parry <thrustanparry7144@...>
------------------------------------

The O14 Group

website: 

forum: 


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

#6497

Having just looked those Fast Tracks jigs seem rather expensive! Each of the part jigs is just over $50 and a point template jig is around $130. So if you wanted to use the jigs for all the parts you'd need to spend almost $300 per rail size and per turnout number! Saying that seems excessive feels like the understatement of the year.

In comparison the crossing jigs from KBScale are just ?7 each and make assembling the hardest part of a point very easy. The one thing those jigs don't help with is cutting the rail at the right angle though and I did find that was a bit of a pain. Rather than buy an expensive jig though I designed my own that could be 3D printed using the cheapest material shapeways offer. You can see the idea in this blog post I wrote

If people are interested I can look into making them available, probably direct from shapeways and you'd just need to supply the 12BA nuts and bolts.

Mark

Show quoted text

On 27 November 2016 at 01:40, Geoffrey Briggs geoffrey_briggs@... [O14] <O14@...> wrote:

?

Craig, I'm glad you asked too, this has been a really useful thread! Will order some shinohara and experiment
Cheers
Geoff

> On 27 Nov 2016, at 2:06 am, "Craig Parry thrustanparry7144@... [O14]" <O14@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks All - I'm glad I asked!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Craig
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 11/26/16, David John davidphillipjohn@... [O14] <O14@...> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [O14] Re: Fast Tracks
> To: "O14@..." <O14@...>
> Date: Saturday, November 26, 2016, 7:19 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi
> Guys
> Regarding
> the Shinohara Sn3 trackl there seems to have been a
> 'shift' in the standards. The recent stuff is fine
> 'as is' and all my stock on Rhyd runs through it
> quite happily - although the frogs need regular cleaning for
> good pick up for short wheelbase locos. The older points
> were tight over check rails but it was a matter of moments
> with a 1mm thick needle file to open them out. These, too,
> now give faultless running (and the frogs can get away with
> less cleaning!)
> All my
> curves, under about 42" radius, have the gauge widened
> to 14.2mm anyway. Russel will haul a train of bow-siders
> around a 24" curve with no problems although Lew
> struggles below a 28" radius curve - but that is more
> to do with pony truck clearance than gauge!.
> Cheers
> David
>
>
> From:
> "jclutterbuck2001@... [O14]"
> <O14@...>
> To: O14@...
>
> Sent: Friday, 25
> November 2016, 18:24
> Subject: [O14] Re: Fast
> Tracks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi
> Craig,
>
> I have had a go at
> comparing the NMRA standard at:
> against the O14 standard at:
>
>
> It looks like the O14
> back-to-back (min 12.4mm) will easily clear the Sn3 max Span
> of 12.01mm (.473")
> and the Sn3 C (CN
> in O14 terms) min of 13.18mm (.519") just exceeds the
> O14 C (13.1mm max) thus it all should work.
>
> I would be grateful if someone
> could check my calculations.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Craig Parry <thrustanparry7144@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
> The O14 Group
>
> website:
>
> forum:
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

matthieu jacquemart

#6498

开云体育

Le 27/11/2016 à 09:40, Mark A Greenwood m.a.greenwood@... [O14] a écrit?:

?

If people are interested I can look into making them available, probably direct from shapeways and you'd just need to supply the 12BA nuts and bolts.

hello,
That could be a good idea !
Matthieu

#6499

开云体育

I agree the fast tracks jigs are expensive, although I did toy with the idea of getting the blade filing jig - which I am led to believe through correspondance will accept Karlgarin 82 rail.

I personally find filing the crossing nose is not too hard although I do complicate it by making it a lap joint (see p25 of?)

The much harder part is holding the crossing and wing rails accuratley in place whilst soldering. On my recent work I have evolved my techniques to use sacrificial card overlays on a template copy with the crossing a wing rails (all straight and over long) held in place with masking tape. I failed to take photos of the soldering operation but hopefully the template photo is obvious - see:?

I have also moved on from trying to solder in the wires (as in track article) to using glued in black plastic snippets to represent the spacers in the flange ways and pieces of fishplate (zamzoodled) glued on the outer side of the rail.

John