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Conundrum over scale width waggons.

Paul Holmes All Messages By This Member #7855 I have recently been in discussions to look at having some 3D printed wooden FR slate waggons made. ?I cannot do 3D drawing/printing, so am looking forward to this little project. ?It does throw up a problem though. The ?7mm NGA 2T waggon has been stretched to make it wide enough to fit oversize 16.5mm gauge wheels. The Port Wynnstay chassis that I used as a base for a pair of scratch built wooden waggons, built some ten years ago is the same. ?The test print of the scale size 2T wooden waggon is scale width. A 14mm gauge wheelset will ?just fit in, but it will use 2mm Association tiny bearings and cut down axles. However, the waggon is some 3mm narrower than the other kit built stock. ?My feeling is to ask Alan to stretch the print by 3mm to match the others, but that is making it inaccurate! What do others think? ?I have uploaded some photos as album ?'Festiniog Slate Waggons' Paul ?
Robin Edwards All Messages By This Member #7856 开云体育 An interesting conundrum!? I guess what you decide to do will depend on how you intend to use the wagons.? If they are to run with your existing (presumably over-wide) stock then I would extend the width by 3mm and accept the inaccuracy.? Aesthetically I think having the stock match would be preferable to having only a few wagons of accurate width.? However, if these are to be part of a future scheme of accurate stock then I would go with the current design and accept the width discrepancy if you use them with the wider stock. ? No help I afraid! ? I guess if these were ever to be issued as kits then you would almost certainly have to go with the wider compromise as even 014 modellers may prefer the extra width to match the 7mmNGA wagons and simplify the fitting of wheels. ? I would be interested in what you decide to do and the 3d print looks excellent. ? Cheers, Robin ? toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Holmes Sent: 29 January 2022 08:56 To: [email protected] Subject: [o14] Conundrum over scale width waggons. ? I have recently been in discussions to look at having some 3D printed wooden FR slate waggons made. ?I cannot do 3D drawing/printing, so am looking forward to this little project. ?It does throw up a problem though. The ?7mm NGA 2T waggon has been stretched to make it wide enough to fit oversize 16.5mm gauge wheels. The Port Wynnstay chassis that I used as a base for a pair of scratch built wooden waggons, built some ten years ago is the same. ?The test print of the scale size 2T wooden waggon is scale width. A 14mm gauge wheelset will ?just fit in, but it will use 2mm Association tiny bearings and cut down axles. However, the waggon is some 3mm narrower than the other kit built stock. ?My feeling is to ask Alan to stretch the print by 3mm to match the others, but that is making it inaccurate! What do others think? ?I have uploaded some photos as album ?'Festiniog Slate Waggons' Paul ?
Paul Holmes All Messages By This Member #7857 Hi Robin.? The overwide route is looking to be the preferred option. These will eventually run on the extended Dinas project, so will run in mixed takes of ‘up empties’ as a tail load and a ‘down gravity’. ?I have around a dozen iron 2T built and a few 3T. Plus half a dozen in flat pack form. I would like a couple of dozen in each rake, permanently coupled.? The prints are coming from Alan Jones of Coast Line Models, mostly 16mm stuff with a smattering of 009. I hope he will sell them as kits or scratch aids. No prices discussed yet. I’m not convinced that 3D printed iron wagons would work, but this route seems ideal for the wooden ones.? Cheers Paul?
Robin Edwards All Messages By This Member #7858 开云体育 Thanks Paul, ? I agree that the iron wagons probably wouldn’t work as a 3d print.? I can’t remember the detail of the 7mm NGA etches but I wonder if a 3d printed chassis could be combined with the etched sides.? I think the sides would have to be cut away from the base but it might make construction a bit easier? ? Cheers, Robin ? _._,_._,_
David Woodcock All Messages By This Member #7859 Surely the answer is to design the kit in such a way that it can easily be either cut down to scale width or built up to the “bloated” width. Given that anyone working in ~14mm gauge is going to be used to do-it-yourself modelling the former approach is probably the more commercial.
David Hughes All Messages By This Member #7860 开云体育 Let me drop a brick into the mill pond ... Why do you model in O14? I think if you can be sure of why you model O14 rather than 0-16.5 you ought to be able to answer your conundrum. I shall now step briskly away from the splash zone. David H toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Paul Holmes <heatonwood@...> Sent: 29 January 2022 08:56 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [o14] Conundrum over scale width waggons. ? I have recently been in discussions to look at having some 3D printed wooden FR slate waggons made. ?I cannot do 3D drawing/printing, so am looking forward to this little project. ?It does throw up a problem though. The ?7mm NGA 2T waggon has been stretched to make it wide enough to fit oversize 16.5mm gauge wheels. The Port Wynnstay chassis that I used as a base for a pair of scratch built wooden waggons, built some ten years ago is the same. ?The test print of the scale size 2T wooden waggon is scale width. A 14mm gauge wheelset will ?just fit in, but it will use 2mm Association tiny bearings and cut down axles. However, the waggon is some 3mm narrower than the other kit built stock. ?My feeling is to ask Alan to stretch the print by 3mm to match the others, but that is making it inaccurate! What do others think? ?I have uploaded some photos as album ?'Festiniog Slate Waggons' Paul ?
Craig Parry All Messages By This Member #7861 And if I may drop another brick - as far as the 7mm society and O14 - what would RCL's advice be? CP toggle quoted message Show quoted text Let me drop a brick into the mill pond ... Why do you model in O14? I think if you can be sure of why you model O14 rather than 0-16.5 you ought to be able to answer your conundrum. I shall now step briskly away from the splash zone. David H ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Paul Holmes <heatonwood@...> Sent: 29 January 2022 08:56 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [o14] Conundrum over scale width waggons. I have recently been in discussions to look at having some 3D printed wooden FR slate waggons made. I cannot do 3D drawing/printing, so am looking forward to this little project. It does throw up a problem though. The 7mm NGA 2T waggon has been stretched to make it wide enough to fit oversize 16.5mm gauge wheels. The Port Wynnstay chassis that I used as a base for a pair of scratch built wooden waggons, built some ten years ago is the same. The test print of the scale size 2T wooden waggon is scale width. A 14mm gauge wheelset will just fit in, but it will use 2mm Association tiny bearings and cut down axles. However, the waggon is some 3mm narrower than the other kit built stock. My feeling is to ask Alan to stretch the print by 3mm to match the others, but that is making it inaccurate! What do others think? I have uploaded some photos as album 'Festiniog Slate Waggons' Paul
Paul Holmes All Messages By This Member #7862 The correct answer is probably to sell all the iron wagons. Then draw up artwork for a new etch with scale width and get 30 odd etched.? I don’t actually know the size variability within the wooden waggons. They were certainly built without the use of a micrometer. Anyone in this forum in the Wagontracks gang??
Peter Tarver All Messages By This Member #7863 Hi Paul, For my 2p, if we're worried about 2.5mm in track gauge then we should sort out 3mm differences in the waggons :-) I am in waggontracks & the WWF (wooden? waggon federation) - we were wondering with coal waggon 163 which we've almost finished rebuilding. The original (well, last fully rebuilt in the 1960s) had 8'1" long sides, and timber came in 16' lengths. We replicated the 8'1", as the ends, doors etc can use it and the spare will be used on the next one - but it did raise the question as to whether the old company would have just rebuilt it at 8' given the same timber! I do have some photos of 2 & 3T metal waggons with tape measures. Not so much (any, from memory) wooden slates but will have a look and upload what I have. The key dimensions (solebar spacing, and wheelbase if braked) would have been pretty precise. There will have been a certain amount of variability elsewhere, but I'd think nominal dimensions would have been within the odd saw blade width. Cheers, Pete toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 at 15:47, Paul Holmes <heatonwood@...> wrote: The correct answer is probably to sell all the iron wagons. Then draw up artwork for a new etch with scale width and get 30 odd etched.? I don’t actually know the size variability within the wooden waggons. They were certainly built without the use of a micrometer. Anyone in this forum in the Wagontracks gang??
David Hughes All Messages By This Member #7864 开云体育 Paul, Have you read David Smith's article in Review 46? Drawings by Dave Ashley, curated by Stuart Baker. David H toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Paul Holmes <heatonwood@...> Sent: 29 January 2022 15:47 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [o14] Conundrum over scale width waggons. ? The correct answer is probably to sell all the iron wagons. Then draw up artwork for a new etch with scale width and get 30 odd etched.? I don’t actually know the size variability within the wooden waggons. They were certainly built without the use of a micrometer. Anyone in this forum in the Wagontracks gang??
Paul Holmes All Messages By This Member #7865 Thanks all. Alan Jones also thinks there would be minimal variation between the timber wagons. Maybe an inch or two. If you have access to the dimensions, Pete, that would be a great help.? I don’t think I have Review 46. Before I discovered the magazine. (or maybe I still thought it full of industrial little diesels and therefore of little interest at the time) ?
Adrian Gray All Messages By This Member #7866 Paul, Whenever I have considered ways to produce wooden slate waggons I have taken the pragmatic, overwidth, route so as to keep them in proportion with my multitude of iron waggons! Adrain
Paul Holmes All Messages By This Member #7867 Edited Thanks Adrian. I think that is the way I am going. It looks like Alan (Coast Line Models) will do a run of 3D prints and Huw Jones may do a run of CNC turned shorter axles. Just need to persuade Colin to do a batch of curly spoke wheels ?…. (the Markits ones look nice but are very expensive and not concentric, so useless). You may like some too?
David I Charlesworth All Messages By This Member #7868 Paul. The advantage of 3d printing is that you can produce variants of the basic design using software only! toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Saturday, 29 January 2022, Paul Holmes <heatonwood@...> wrote: I have recently been in discussions to look at having some 3D printed wooden FR slate waggons made.? I cannot do 3D drawing/printing, so am looking forward to this little project.? It does throw up a problem though. The ?7mm NGA 2T waggon has been stretched to make it wide enough to fit oversize 16.5mm gauge wheels. The Port Wynnstay chassis that I used as a base for a pair of scratch built wooden waggons, built some ten years ago is the same.? The test print of the scale size 2T wooden waggon is scale width. A 14mm gauge wheelset will ?just fit in, but it will use 2mm Association tiny bearings and cut down axles. However, the waggon is some 3mm narrower than the other kit built stock.? My feeling is to ask Alan to stretch the print by 3mm to match the others, but that is making it inaccurate! What do others think?? I have uploaded some photos as album ?'Festiniog Slate Waggons' Paul ?
Marc Dobson All Messages By This Member #7869 开云体育 I had the same issue when I developed my range of Tall-y-llyn , for the 7mmNGA, I used 0-14 standards and they didn't like them as they were had to have special Alan Gibson wheels to allow them to run on 16.5 track. As they couldn't use there cheap 00 wheels they have not even advertised them on there own website even though they bought ?400 of kits off me. On the subject of 3D printing wagons it's great for wooden objects, where cross section of material is pritty thick. However? things that are less than 1mm thick it can distort and it's not overly strong. Marc Get toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David I Charlesworth <dinasjunction@...> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2022 10:45:12 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [o14] Conundrum over scale width waggons. ? Paul. The advantage of 3d printing is that you can produce variants of the basic design using software only! On Saturday, 29 January 2022, Paul Holmes <heatonwood@...> wrote: I have recently been in discussions to look at having some 3D printed wooden FR slate waggons made.? I cannot do 3D drawing/printing, so am looking forward to this little project.? It does throw up a problem though. The ?7mm NGA 2T waggon has been stretched to make it wide enough to fit oversize 16.5mm gauge wheels. The Port Wynnstay chassis that I used as a base for a pair of scratch built wooden waggons, built some ten years ago is the same.? The test print of the scale size 2T wooden waggon is scale width. A 14mm gauge wheelset will ?just fit in, but it will use 2mm Association tiny bearings and cut down axles. However, the waggon is some 3mm narrower than the other kit built stock.? My feeling is to ask Alan to stretch the print by 3mm to match the others, but that is making it inaccurate! What do others think?? I have uploaded some photos as album ?'Festiniog Slate Waggons' Paul ?

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