o14 Group

Re: Narrow Gauge & Industrial Railway Modelling REVIEW

robinglos@... (Robin Edwards) — Sat, 22 Feb 2025 06:58:02 -0800

Excellent news, well done John.

Cheers Robin聽

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Re: Narrow Gauge & Industrial Railway Modelling REVIEW

jclutterbuck2001@... (John C) — Sat, 22 Feb 2025 06:49:03 -0800

Some of you may have seen the news already:聽https://www.facebook.com/share/1BXzJjAZ6Q/

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This all happened very quickly, but means our wonderful magazine continues.

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John

Re: SAR/WHR Garratt pipework

rallim56@... (Brian) — Sun, 12 Jan 2025 13:29:20 -0800

Allan,

I also do the SAR Bell type link & pin couplings and also the Avontuur branch chopper couplings, the link & pin couplings couple automatically as long as you have the coupling height is the same height. The swan neck castings are designed to use聽

this ducted tube 1.7mm.

https://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-cars-motorcycles-detail-up-sets-t2m-tuner-model-manufactory-t2m-2002b

Brian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi1wuWY4VsI

Re: SAR/WHR Garratt pipework

allan.dare@... (Allan Dare) — Sun, 12 Jan 2025 12:59:51 -0800

锘�Brian

Thanks, but I鈥檒l have to pass on the sandboxes and oil tank/pump, as I鈥檝e already fabricated my own equivalents, and fitted them to the (now painted) tank and bunker units. If I鈥檇 known about your castings I鈥檇 certainly have used them.聽

The Paddock water tower looks great, albeit probably too big for my proposed layout, but the point levers and slide chairs could be very useful - thanks for the tip.

Allan

Re: SAR/WHR Garratt pipework

rallim56@... (Brian) — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 12:00:23 -0800

Allen,

I have a few different types of sandboxes that were used by SAR on the NNG16's plus I have the oil tank and pump as a casting if you are interested.

I also did a etched kit to make the SAR point tumblers and chairs, Kevin now owns the rights to getting them commercially etched, in the photo with the bogie the sideframes are S scale American Flyer Bettendorf bogies except I had a new bolster cast to make them look like SAR bogies except they have a wheelbase of 3'8.7" instead of the 3'10" that they should be.

I also did the Paddock water tank for Kevin I think he has a spare kit, it's a big tank at roughly 6" [152mm] square

Brian

Re: SAR/WHR Garratt pipework

allan.dare@... (Allan Dare) — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 11:17:07 -0800

锘�

锘�Steve, Brian

Many thanks for the info and the links, which I鈥檒l follow up.

Given the issues with the Backwoods Miniatures kit - and the way that the prototype locos swapped components, boilers and even engine units with incestuous abandon - 聽I鈥檓 building my kit as a 鈥済eneric鈥� NGG16. Life is too short to match an individual loco at a particular date, but all credit to those who do! I am making some modifications, such as fitting the later design of lubricators, and I鈥檝e rebuilt the headstocks to accommodate Zamzoodled couplers at 1鈥�6鈥� ARL to match my Lynton & Barnstaple stuff, as Brian recommends.

I鈥檒l give my model plates for NG143, purely because I鈥檝e been hauled by her. Otherwise any link to a real WHR/VoR Garratt will be obviated by a livery of plain, slightly grubby, black. I want an everyday goods engine, not a preservation prima donna, lovely though they are. Not everybody鈥檚 choice, I know.

As to the LH piping, thanks for the explanation. I clearly misinterpreted the GA drawing in NG&IRM no. 61. The pipe being for water makes much more sense, especially given the juxtaposition of the injector feeds. However, that does beg the question as to how 143 could run without this pipe in the 2000s? I can only guess it was temporarily rerouted to run behind the frame member, which would probably be easier for a water pipe than an exhaust one, but I could well be wrong.

Anyway, again thanks for the help.

Allan

Re: Narrow Gauge & Industrial Railway Modelling REVIEW

jclutterbuck2001@... (John C) — Wed, 08 Jan 2025 03:19:10 -0800

Issue 141 has gone to the printers for distribution at the end of the month.

In this issue we continue with Part 2 of Marty Johnston鈥檚 superb series on the unique outside flange Charles Hunt Railway system. This part covers the locomotives and rolling stock and is supported by no less than 11 scale drawings by Stuart Baker. We also have an article and scale drawing by Stuart on the Campbeltown & Macrihanish locomotive Chevalier, loco and construction articles by Giles Favell and Paul Holmes, a rolling stock kit adaptation article by Nick Brown and finally Sydney Leleux shares some memories of early standard gauge industrial Kerr Stuart diesels, plus of course the usual product & book reviews and readers letters.

Contents:

Charles Hunt鈥檚 Innovative Railways 鈥� Part 2聽- Martin E Johnston describes the locomotives and rolling stock of this unique outside flange based railway system with prototype photos and 1:32 scale drawings by Stuart L Baker
Campbeltown & Machrihanish Light Railway Chevalier聽- The 2ft 3ins gauge locomotive modelled in 7mm scale by Stuart L Baker with 1:32 scale drawing
Tattoo in 16mm Scale聽- Traditional & modern techniques and electronic wizardry by Giles Favell
Wantage Tramway No.5 Jane聽- Paul Holmes builds this unique England engine in 7mm scale
Lynton & Barnstaple Coach No.1 Conversion聽- Nick Brown builds a new coach from Slaters 7mm kit components
Encounters with two Kerr Stuart Diesels聽- Sydney A Leleux shares some memories of early standard gauge industrial diesels
Quarry Crane聽- A modelling mystery by John Elliot

Re: SAR/WHR Garratt pipework

rallim56@... (Brian) — Tue, 07 Jan 2025 15:45:57 -0800

Just for the record the Backwoods NGG16 kit was completely wrong especially regarding the headstock arrangement, if you compare the attached photo to the correct headstock you will see the difference, especially the coupling height for some reason Backwoods set the coupling height to HO scale height instead of the correct 13.1mm above rail as it should be, I also did the artwork to make the Cockrell tank as per #87, but also the earlier round top tank as well, if you are interested in upgrading your model Garratt's you can contact Kevin Macintosh [he spells his name as Kevan Macintosh on Facebook] if you want to contact him. Also attached is a photo of one of Kevin's Garratt's.
PS: if you are interested in the Bell type link & pin couplings check out this video of there operation coupling automatically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi1wuWY4VsI

Re: SAR/WHR Garratt pipework

steveholland590@... (Steve Holland) — Mon, 06 Jan 2025 14:46:56 -0800

Allan,

The exhaust steam pipe from the rear unit on the NGG16s has only ever been on the driver鈥檚 (right hand) side of the locos. The two pipes on the fireman鈥檚 (left hand side) of the locos are the vacuum pipe for the train and loco brakes, and the water balance pipe between the tanks on the front and rear units.

The vacuum pipe runs from just behind the smoke box to below the cab. The water pipe runs from the front of the boiler cradle to the rear and is connected to a casting (the lump on the boiler cradle frame by the firebox front) that has the water feeds to the injectors taken from it.

So far as I am aware the pipe runs on the boiler cradles below the running plate have not changed much (if at all) on the NGG16s during their various overhauls. Above the running plate is a different matter as boiler swaps during the 10 year overhauls have lead to the clack valves being in different places (either towards the front of the boiler or just ahead of the dome) according to which boiler is fitted.

As to my favourite Garratt? When they were oil fired it was definitely 143, 138 did not steam as well on oil. Both engines were much better steamers when they went back to coal firing. 130 has a similar performance to 138 and 143. 87 uniquely has a Lempor exhaust and is definitely the loudest of the Garratts when working hard. So 143 (I did a lot of my firing training on it) closely followed by 87.

Regards

Steve

SAR/WHR Garratt pipework

allan.dare@... (Allan Dare) — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 13:51:21 -0800

A prototype question, but some of our FR/WHR experts may know the answer:

聽

As built all the NGG16 Garratts had exhaust steam pipes running along the boiler unit frames on both sides of the loco. Pictures of no. 143 in commercial service in 1986 South Africa show the pipe on the left-hand side, but when first running on the WHR (in her original black livery) this LH pipe was missing; the only exhaust steam pipe was on the right hand side. No. 138 also may have had a similar single pipe layout at the time.

聽

The lack of the LH pipe didn鈥檛 seem to affect the loco鈥檚 performance; I had a trip behind 143 in this condition in 2007, and she had no problems climbing out of Dinas with a lengthy train. However, following overhaul in 2010-11 no. 143 appeared not only in green livery, but with the standard pipes-on-both-sides layout as well.

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Does anyone know the thinking behind these changes, and were any other NGG16s so affected?

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Thanks

聽

Allan

(PS and yes, I know the Backwoods kit is for a NGG16 with rivetted tanks, and 143 has welded ones鈥iteral rivet counting!)

聽

Re: Templot PLUG track

jclutterbuck2001@... (John C) — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 12:12:50 -0800

I agree David that the notable Welsh NG railways were all sub 2ft. I also agree that a suitable source of bull/double headed rail may be a challenge. I know Paul H used S Scale Society rail for Dinas but seem to recall hearing the latest rail is not so good.

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However, the real opportunity with the Templot approach is that ALL the track and pointwork for a layout can be printed with correct chairs and sleepering in your chosen gauge. There are even 3d printable filing jugs for the rails. It is a completely opposite approach to buying some flexible track and a few points and assembling a track plan. That said it is mightily difficult to perfect a complete digital plan. I resorted to full size paper for the crossover and goods yard loop for Lynton. And the PLR was all done with hand drawn templates.

聽

John

Re: Templot PLUG track

dandewoodcock@... (David Woodcock) — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 07:33:02 -0800

Was there any TWO FOOT gauge track with chairs? I suspect that it was all an inch or two short of two feet and thus somewhere in the lower part of the 13mm - 14mm range in 7mm (or the Talyllyn at 15,75 mm).

Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year to you all.

David WOODCOCK
Champlon, Belgique

Re: Templot PLUG track

adriangray1955@... (Adrian Gray) — Fri, 20 Dec 2024 06:46:38 -0800

John,

That's an interesting development and not such a surprise as Paul Martin produced printed 14mm track some time ago. That was FB to suit the Lionheart L&B models.

FB is easy as there are many different (model) rail sections available. Chaired track is not quite so straightforward as the range of bullhead/double head sizes/profiles is very limited and the most popular, code 75, is not quite heavy enough.

Adrian聽

Templot PLUG track

jclutterbuck2001@... (John C) — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 09:09:57 -0800

I've been watching on and off the Templot developments for 3D printed chairs in either 3D printed or laser-cut sleepers. The big interest for fellow true gauge aficionados is it is meant to work in any gauge or scale. I think the chairs are defined by a CAD file so it should be possible to produce 14mm track with all variants of Welsh chairs.

聽

The following link on WT is probably easier to follow than the Templot forum itself: https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/hayfields-7mm-3d-printed-turnouts.13193/page-2

On this thread there are also details of someone who will print and lasercut track from Templot files as a service.

聽

I have to confess I have a love-hate relationship with Templot (more of a hate if truth be told) but I understand it has got slightly easier to use of late.

聽

John

Re: Now: O14 group birthday - started 28th November 2004 - Thursday, November 28, 2024

bruce@... (Bruce Wood) — Sun, 01 Dec 2024 18:29:17 -0800

Hi Gents,

I think special accolades are in order for David from KB Scale for keeping Roy鈥檚 range of locos, rolling stock and accessories alive!

聽

Also, Paul鈥檚 support with the re-gauging of the L&B models would have been a special prize for those modelling the L&B. With the ever diminishing number of suppliers and support services available, it was sensational for Paul take on this project, and I am sure it would have been a very labour intensive modification exercise.

聽

Reading some of our member stories, it appears common that some projects take years (or decades?). I have probably not been as productive as I should have been with very little O14 modelling in the last 10 years. I have actually accumulated a reasonable roster of Listers other locos and rolling stock which will be adequate for when my grand O14 project happens. I am finding the primary impediment to be the track building. I have all the track gauges and frog jigs etc, however I do find track building to be the most tedious part of model railways. I am aware that Paul now has some r-t-r 聽track available, however his website shows this currently as 鈥淥ut of stock鈥�. Maybe over the Christmas break, I should start making a few points?

聽

Bruce

聽

Re: Now: O14 group birthday - started 28th November 2004 - Thursday, November 28, 2024

allan.dare@... (Allan Dare) — Sun, 01 Dec 2024 13:58:16 -0800

I wonder how many of us got into O14 by accident, or nearly so?

Back when the Greenwich show was still in Greenwich I bought one of Roy Link鈥檚 first batch of Rustons plus some skips (and a horse as back-up power to the loco!). The kit was for 14mm gauge, so for no better reason that鈥檚 what I built, together with a very small 鈥渟kips with everything鈥� diorama. This reached the operable-but-unscenicked stage before my butterfly mind switched to something else.聽

Fast forward a few years, and on a whim I picked up an unbuilt Peco Hunslet and Branchlines chassis from the 7mmNGA sales stand. I dithered over which gauge to build it to, but eventually decided on 14mm purely to match the Ruston.

Forward a few more years, and I bought the Alan Gibson kit for 鈥淟ew鈥�. The earlier locos dictated the choice of 14mm gauge, but I now discovered its benefits - it not only looks better, but gives far better clearances between the frames on outside-frame locos. A Wrightlines Baldwin showed similar clearance benefits on an inside-frame loco, both in the crucial areas behind the crossheads, and for bogie swing without clouting the back of the cylinders. 聽More recent projects such as an NGG16 Garratt and L&B Lyn have likewise been no harder in O14 than in O16.5.

I now tell people that I model in O14 because, in contrast to EM and P4, it鈥檚 actually easier than its commercial-gauge equivalent. It鈥檚 kind of true鈥�. but inertia is the real reason!

Allan

Re: Now: O14 group birthday - started 28th November 2004 - Thursday, November 28, 2024

peter_tarver@... (Peter Tarver) — Sun, 01 Dec 2024 12:34:33 -0800

Hi Paul & All,

I am here & have been for some time 馃檪 just not very productively as in the main my modelling in the last few years has been focused on P4 bits. I have been sorting some 014 stock in the last few months though, thanks for the inspiration to do so!

As you say, Croesor Junction is in the pipeline - though I think prior to that there will be an inglenook called Porthmadog Snowdon Street, with a bit of the mill & surroundings. Only 2 points to worry about as I haven't built them in flat bottom before!

House & wedding may scupper short term progress however!

Cheers,

Pete

Re: Now: O14 group birthday - started 28th November 2004 - Thursday, November 28, 2024

jclutterbuck2001@... (John C) — Fri, 29 Nov 2024 14:33:39 -0800

I originally started the PLR as 16.5mm c.1985 but then very quickly rebuilt it to 13.7mm gauge (for 1ft 11 1/2ins) as it just didn't look right. This again I rebuilt to 14mm once I became aware of Roy's RCL Kits 14mm range - there wasn't much built as my progress was glacial as it still is. It was about 8 years later that I got in touch with Roy and he published my trackwork articles in the Review. The rest is perhaps history. The original board still exists, there is still track to build and years of scenic work ahead - but then that was always the point!

聽

John

Re: Now: O14 group birthday - started 28th November 2004 - Thursday, November 28, 2024

adriangray1955@... (Adrian Gray) — Fri, 29 Nov 2024 13:34:22 -0800

I've been building slate waggons to 14mm gauge since the early 1990s!!

David Rae modestly omits to mention his super layout Bunny Mine.

Adrian聽

Re: Now: O14 group birthday - started 28th November 2004 - Thursday, November 28, 2024

robinglos@... (Robin Edwards) — Thu, 28 Nov 2024 09:35:06 -0800

I also remember seeing Rhyd and ALR at that show but I have had to good fortune to have seen both much more recently.

聽

I guess I started in 014 when Roy first introduced his range in the 1980鈥檚.聽 However it took a lot longer for me to actually build the intended layout!聽 I had amassed quite a range of locos and stock in the intervening period and still have a lot left to build.聽 I really do need a bigger 014 layout (and a 16.5 one as well for all my existing GVT based stock).聽 One can dream!

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Cheers, Robin

聽