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Re: North Staffs coaches
Hello Paul, I'm pretty sure that is a North London Railway passenger brake van as it has the distinctive 'birdcage' lookout. The NSR had none like these. Roger Cromblehome [Apphagraphix] does a nice etch kit for the shorter one which ran on the KESR - I have this unbuilt. Assuming the all-compartment one is NSR, someone called 5D_Stoke does them on Shapeways in 4mm scale so they might scale up. The Foxfield Raeilway is restoring a complete train of these and they have the best information on them.? Link here to a thread in RmWeb. Hope this is helpful. David On 27 June 2018 at 12:26, Paul Holmes <heatonwood@...> wrote: At Hulme End, terminus of the Leek and Manifold there were two grounded North Staffs four wheel coach bodies.? My expertise is decidedly lacking on NSR vehicles and I need some help as I am modelling Hulme End in 7mm finescale (17.5mm gauge)? |
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Re: North Staffs coaches
开云体育Paul,
To answer your questions yes there are drawings they are in the NRM and the HMRS archives. As for kits/etches ?I have never heard of any. And with the way things are going in 7mm standard gauge I wouldn't hold your breath on there
being any either.
Marc?
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North Staffs coaches
At Hulme End, terminus of the Leek and Manifold there were two grounded North Staffs four wheel coach bodies. ?My expertise is decidedly lacking on NSR vehicles and I need some help as I am modelling Hulme End in 7mm finescale (17.5mm gauge)?
So - what are they, ?are there any drawings or even better any 7mm scale etchings. ?Here are the photos that I have, courtesy of RCL Publications and copied here with permission.? Over to the experts with thanks ?Paul ?( also posted on 7mm group. ) |
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Re: Compensated Rakes
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Thanks Adrian.
I must admit I've not previously given a great deal of thought to springing except where I've found bodies too slack on bogies. Food for thought. I think you've just presented me?with the sort of construction problem that I'm beginning to enjoy!
Meanwhile, I guess if I've got several hours to spare I'll put together a rake?and try turning them in different configurations to see if I can answer my own question about the arrangement of compensated wagons.
David
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Adrian Gray <adriangray1955@...>
Sent: 23 June 2018 21:15 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [o14] Compensated Rakes ?
Paul is probably right about there being little need to compensate short wheelbase vehicles - that is provided the axles are parallel in all planes (across the vehicle and along the vehicle) and that they are perpendicular to the direction of movement
and to the potential buffing and coupling forces.
It is also important (in the context of most of our NG stock) that buffers are truly central on the end of the vehicles and that they, too, are parallel to the direction of travel. Both conditions are particularly important when vehicles are being propelled. Empirical evidence gathered by my friends Chris Pendlenton, Bob How and Mike Clark (Masokits) working with pinpoint axle/bearing fitted S4 wagons and carriages, demonstrates that a fully sprung vehicle rides better and runs further than a compensated vehicle and that the compensated vehicle is better than a rigid vehicle. The 'experiment' used straight, level track and a free swinging, cushioned, pendulum to deliver consistent impetus.? The perception that NG wagons rattle and bang along is, I suggest, largely based upon observation of unsprung waggons and skips.? Those vehicles that were sprung, such as the L&B wagons, getting back to David's enquiry, probably only rattled a little when they were empty and their springs virtually uncompressed. My personal instinct is to spring vehicles that were sprung in the prototype, if it is at all possible.? It is a challenge and a chore but the silky smooth passage of said vehicles is a delight to watch! Adrian |
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Re: Compensated Rakes
Paul is probably right about there being little need to compensate short wheelbase vehicles - that is provided the axles are parallel in all planes (across the vehicle and along the vehicle) and that they are perpendicular to the direction of movement and to the potential buffing and coupling forces.
It is also important (in the context of most of our NG stock) that buffers are truly central on the end of the vehicles and that they, too, are parallel to the direction of travel. Both conditions are particularly important when vehicles are being propelled. Empirical evidence gathered by my friends Chris Pendlenton, Bob How and Mike Clark (Masokits) working with pinpoint axle/bearing fitted S4 wagons and carriages, demonstrates that a fully sprung vehicle rides better and runs further than a compensated vehicle and that the compensated vehicle is better than a rigid vehicle. The 'experiment' used straight, level track and a free swinging, cushioned, pendulum to deliver consistent impetus.? The perception that NG wagons rattle and bang along is, I suggest, largely based upon observation of unsprung waggons and skips.? Those vehicles that were sprung, such as the L&B wagons, getting back to David's enquiry, probably only rattled a little when they were empty and their springs virtually uncompressed. My personal instinct is to spring vehicles that were sprung in the prototype, if it is at all possible.? It is a challenge and a chore but the silky smooth passage of said vehicles is a delight to watch! Adrian |
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Re: Compensated Rakes
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Thanks Paul & Brian.
I too wouldn't normally entertain adding compensation to what are in their own right fairly chunky wagons (my Decauville struggles to pull just one loaded with whitemetal figures). It was while wondering if it might be worth replacing the cast axle guards with
etched?brass ones that I thought about going the whole hog, since 00 compensation units would probably fit quite well. That led to my more generic question - does compensation act directionally and thus?is there any advantage in arranging all rolling stock
to be compensated in the same direction?
I guess if no-one's been mad enough to actually try - and the sort of train seen pulling slate down to Port would be long enough to show - then I needn't worry. Some P4 modeller with a train of 50 garish?private-owner wagons might know ...
I ought to stop reading Geoff Kent (The 4mm Wagon Pts 1-3): he's leading me down rabbit warrens!
David
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian <rallim56@...>
Sent: 21 June 2018 10:21 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [o14] Compensated Rakes ?
AS far as compensation goes you can always resort to what the prototype use and that is to use rods to hold the wagon together, obviously this only works with wagons that are diecast so they have plenty of weight, see the wagon I built a number of years
ago,
?
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Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops Qld. Aust. ?
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Hi David
I personally do not feel the need to compensate rolling stock at all in 014. The flanges are the same as 00 finescale and unless the track is awful (either in error or by design) then it should stay on the track.? This is not the same in P4 where the flanges are so fine that compensation is much more necessary. Locomotives of course are a different matter where compensation or springing help keep all the wheels stay in contact with the rails to increase the chance of collecting power and help traction. Some though would eschew compensation, keep the chassis simpler and go for a stay alive capacitor and clever DCC decoder. The latest Zimo decoders have a detection device so that if the loco is stopped on a dead piece of track, the decoder detects this then? moves the loco forwards a few millimetres until it reaches power before stopping. Not sure about S7 wagons - better ask John about that one.?
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Re: Compensated Rakes
Hi David
I personally do not feel the need to compensate rolling stock at all in 014. The flanges are the same as 00 finescale and unless the track is awful (either in error or by design) then it should stay on the track. ?This is not the same in P4 where the flanges are so fine that compensation is much more necessary. Locomotives of course are a different matter where compensation or springing help keep all the wheels stay in contact with the rails to increase the chance of collecting power and help traction. Some though would eschew compensation, keep the chassis simpler and go for a stay alive capacitor and clever DCC decoder. The latest Zimo decoders have a detection device so that if the loco is stopped on a dead piece of track, the decoder detects this then ?moves the loco forwards a few millimetres until it reaches power before stopping. Not sure about S7 wagons - better ask John about that one.? |
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Compensated Rakes
If rolling stock is directional, e.g. has choppers at one end only and therefore tends to run the same way in a given rake, is there any advantage in making the fixed end in compensated wheel sets the same end? I'm thinking .... fixed, rocking, coupler; fixed, rocking, coupler; fixed, rocking etc.
I probably needn't to compensate at all on the whitemetal wagons I'm thinking of, but now is the time to think this through before I get some more and start building them in earnest. David H Chelfham |
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Paul Holmes
David Hughes
Adrian Gray