Re: SAR/WHR Garratt pipework
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? Brian Thanks, but I’ll have to pass on the sandboxes and oil tank/pump, as I’ve already fabricated my own equivalents, and fitted them to the (now painted) tank and bunker units. If I’d known about your castings I’d certainly have used them.? The Paddock water tower looks great, albeit probably too big for my proposed layout, but the point levers and slide chairs could be very useful - thanks for the tip.
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On 8 Jan 2025, at 20:00, Brian via groups.io <rallim56@...> wrote:
? Allen, I have a few different types of sandboxes that were used by SAR on the NNG16's plus I have the oil tank and pump as a casting if you are interested. I also did a etched kit to make the SAR point tumblers and chairs, Kevin now owns the rights to getting them commercially etched, in the photo with the bogie the sideframes are S scale American Flyer Bettendorf bogies except I had a new bolster cast to make them look like SAR bogies except they have a wheelbase of 3'8.7" instead of the 3'10" that they should be. I also did the Paddock water tank for Kevin I think he has a spare kit, it's a big tank at roughly 6" [152mm] square Brian
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Date 9/01/2025 5:16:49 AM
Subject Re: [o14] SAR/WHR Garratt pipework
? ?Steve, Brian
Many thanks for the info and the links, which I’ll follow up.
Given the issues with the Backwoods Miniatures kit - and the way that the prototype locos swapped components, boilers and even engine units with incestuous abandon - ?I’m building my kit as a “generic” NGG16. Life is too short to match an individual loco at a particular date, but all credit to those who do! I am making some modifications, such as fitting the later design of lubricators, and I’ve rebuilt the headstocks to accommodate Zamzoodled couplers at 1’6” ARL to match my Lynton & Barnstaple stuff, as Brian recommends.
I’ll give my model plates for NG143, purely because I’ve been hauled by her. Otherwise any link to a real WHR/VoR Garratt will be obviated by a livery of plain, slightly grubby, black. I want an everyday goods engine, not a preservation prima donna, lovely though they are. Not everybody’s choice, I know.
As to the LH piping, thanks for the explanation. I clearly misinterpreted the GA drawing in NG&IRM no. 61. The pipe being for water makes much more sense, especially given the juxtaposition of the injector feeds. However, that does beg the question as to how 143 could run without this pipe in the 2000s? I can only guess it was temporarily rerouted to run behind the frame member, which would probably be easier for a water pipe than an exhaust one, but I could well be wrong.
Anyway, again thanks for the help.
Allan
On 7 Jan 2025, at 23:46, Brian via groups.io <rallim56@...> wrote:
? Just for the record the Backwoods hi NGG16 kit was completely wrong especially regarding the headstock arrangement, if you compare the attached photo to the correct headstock you will see the difference, especially the coupling height for some reason Backwoods set the coupling height to HO scale height instead of the correct 13.1mm above rail as it should be, I also did the artwork to make the Cockrell tank as per #87, but also the earlier round top tank as well, if you are interested in upgrading your model Garratt's you can contact Kevin Macintosh [he spells his name as Kevan Macintosh on Facebook] if you want to contact him. Also attached is a photo of one of Kevin's Garratt's.
PS: if you are interested in the Bell type link & pin couplings check out this video of there operation coupling automatically.
------ Original Message ------
Date 7/01/2025 7:08:22 AM
Subject Re: [o14] SAR/WHR Garratt pipework
Allan,
The exhaust steam pipe from the rear unit on the NGG16s has only ever been on the driver’s (right hand) side of the locos. The two pipes on the fireman’s (left hand side) of the locos are the vacuum pipe for the train and loco brakes, and the water balance pipe between the tanks on the front and rear units.
The vacuum pipe runs from just behind the smoke box to below the cab. The water pipe runs from the front of the boiler cradle to the rear and is connected to a casting (the lump on the boiler cradle frame by the firebox front) that has the water feeds to the injectors taken from it.
So far as I am aware the pipe runs on the boiler cradles below the running plate have not changed much (if at all) on the NGG16s during their various overhauls. Above the running plate is a different matter as boiler swaps during the 10 year overhauls have lead to the clack valves being in different places (either towards the front of the boiler or just ahead of the dome) according to which boiler is fitted.
As to my favourite Garratt? When they were oil fired it was definitely 143, 138 did not steam as well on oil. Both engines were much better steamers when they went back to coal firing. 130 has a similar performance to 138 and 143. 87 uniquely has a Lempor exhaust and is definitely the loudest of the Garratts when working hard. So 143 (I did a lot of my firing training on it) closely followed by 87.
Regards
Steve
On 5 Jan 2025, at 21:51, Allan Dare via groups.io <allan.dare@...> wrote:
? A prototype question, but some of our FR/WHR experts may know the answer:
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As built all the NGG16 Garratts had exhaust steam pipes running along the boiler unit frames on both sides of the loco. Pictures of no. 143 in commercial service in 1986 South Africa show the pipe on the left-hand side, but when first running on the WHR (in her original black livery) this LH pipe was missing; the only exhaust steam pipe was on the right hand side. No. 138 also may have had a similar single pipe layout at the time.
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The lack of the LH pipe didn’t seem to affect the loco’s performance; I had a trip behind 143 in this condition in 2007, and she had no problems climbing out of Dinas with a lengthy train. However, following overhaul in 2010-11 no. 143 appeared not only in green livery, but with the standard pipes-on-both-sides layout as well.
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Does anyone know the thinking behind these changes, and were any other NGG16s so affected?
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Thanks
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Allan
(PS and yes, I know the Backwoods kit is for a NGG16 with rivetted tanks, and 143 has welded ones…literal rivet counting!)
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Allan Dare