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Hi: I've posted photos showing darkening that I've described in previous posts: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEONIXIE-L/message/46061 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEONIXIE-L/message/47000 Photos are located in "Photos|figureloop": Member: figureloop <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEONIXIE-L/photos/album/198068361/pic/lis&#92; t> Care to speculate on the cause of these different types of darkening? And if this is possible to occur on new in box tubes, then why are some tubes completely free of darkening? Note that I see insulating spacer darkening on all other NIB tubes I've bought from non-Ebay sellers as well. NL840s from Sphere show spacer darkening as well as "bleaching" of the anode back wall, and ZM1040/Z566M from Ask Jan First show darkening on the spacers. I am not insinuating that these sellers have misrepresented their products. I suspect that some sputtering of spacers may occur in factory burn in procedures. Also, if there was an induction heating step prior to filling that heated the elements to glowing heat, then it is possible that this procedure causes darkening of spacers, and possibly even emits metal vapors which condense on the walls of the IN-18 tubes. However, in the latter case, this would seem to indicate a great deal of inconsistency in Russian IN-18 factories since clearly there are tubes which show no darkening whatsoever. The darkening mystery continues...

thanks entirely to THREE NEURONS designs and MR mikes new and wonderful hvps (get one soon)that will output all the voltages to run your dekatrons so let's go, pull them out of the drawers and lets get them all vari spinning ...look at the size of that spinner ,i could be made just a bit smaller (spinner tie tac?)(spinner belt buckle)(in hats)(bras ?ouch)12 volts input works in cars . a word of caution 540vdc has a bit more sting than the 180volt i am use to and could burn the spot of contact (been there done it)have fun but look out it will teach respect for high voltage http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010151.mp4 SEE THE MOVIE how do you turn the sound off?

Hi: I recently bought some IN-18 from sellers ranutek and bsa_79 on Ebay. I suspect that these tubes are not new despite being listed as such in the item title. If you have any IN-18, especially if you have some that you think are still new, or purchased as new, examine the pink stack of insulating spacer washers at the top and bottom which separate the digit cathodes. When a tube has operated for some time, these become blackened on the side facing the cathodes. However, they remain pink on the side facing the mica support disk. Another place to look is on the micas. There may be blackening spots apparent on the micas at top and bottom. Finally, there is a third location which evidences use. That is on the side of the glass envelope on the left and right where there is a hole in the anode screen/rear plate. Blackening of the glass may be present. In the two different batches of tubes I received recently, there are widely varying degrees of blackening on the various locations described above, ranging from barely blackened on just the pink washers, to heavily blackened in all three locations. Three tubes from one batch were totally unblackened and appear completely new. So far, a heavily blackened tube that I tested illuminates all digits Ok. The characteristic is a bit different than the newer looking tubes. For the "8" digit, a used-looking tube has a voltage drop of 137VDC at 3.5mA, where a new looking tube has about 129VDC at 3.5mA. I am inclined to give a negative feedback for these sellers, but before I do so I'd like some feedback from this forum. One thing I am not sure if, of course, is if the sellers really understood the tube conditions. Have there been indications of IN-18s being not new before from Ebay sources which listed them as "new?" Thanks for comments.

Greetings, Does anyone have interest in Vishay plasma displays? http://www.vishay.com/displays/plasma/ The 1x4 char, 16segment, 2x1" char PD-04A200 gets my attention: Also, 1x16 char, 14 seg., 0.7x0.44" APD-016A070. Then there are some VERY large 128x32 graphic displays. It might be interesting to get a group buy on some of these. Mouser lists the PD-04A200 with a lead time of 12 weeks. I would consider getting 4 of these. If we could buy 10, that would be $130.50 per 4 characters. Newark also lists this, with single units for the same price. So maybe a group buy isn't needed! How does that compare to unobtanium or very expensive used B7971 tubes? I know it doesn't have the cute "tube" shape, but if you like glowing neon, these are really nice displays.

I set up a test circuit using TTL components and 74141 Nixie driver to count from 0 to 9. The HV source I have is adjustable up to 200V output. I get good illumination of all digits if I use a 26K anode resistor, with a voltage of 181V. The loaded voltage measured after the resistor is ~136V and the current measured between the anode resistor and the tube is 1.7-1.8 mA. If I crank the voltage to 200.0V the current between the resistor and the tube cathodes is ~2.5mA. The digits look sharper and brighter. The voltage after the resistor is ~ 137V. My questions are: 1. To get maximum tube longevity, should I measure the voltage before or after the anode resistor? 2. Am I measuring the current correctly between the anode resistor and the tube cathode? The data sheet for this tube states: Firing voltage no more than 170V, working current digits (2.5-4.5 mA). Stated longevity no less than 10,000 hours if Voltage &#8804; 200V and anode current for digits &#8804; 2.5 mA. But there are 8,760 hours per year and this would mean the tubes would fail before two years of continuous use. Others have stated that the life -time of these tubes can be for a decade. I assume that this is due to running the tubes at lower currents and voltages. 3. What would most of you run these tubes at voltage and current? 4. Does it matter what Voltage and anode resistor combination as long as the cathode current doesn't exceed 2.5 mA?

I need to use the?blanking output pin of the Moses 6 Digit microcontroller to turn a 6 LED array to light the bases of Nixie tubes.? All I need to do is turn on a simple switching transistor (e.g. 2N2222) so the cathodes of all 6 LEDS are connected to ground. ?The anode of each LED goes to a current limiting resistor to the + 5 V regulator supply. ?The total current through the 6 LEDS will be ?~ 120 mA. ?Moses says the? ?"Current sourced or sinked from outputs should not exceed 15ma per pin." 1. How can I figure out what the current sourced or sinked is with the above? 2. If the estimated current exceeds 15 mA then can anyone tell me how I can use the blanking output on the microcontroller to turn off the LEDS when the Nixie display is blanked.? 3. Do I need a diode to protect the microcontroller if the transistor fails? Thanks for your help,

Yeh. Its NOTHING to do with nixies. But its a bit of fun and made me laugh... Watch to the end. http://www.youtube.com/v/364dzVsBs2o Nick

For a direct drive 6 tube IN-8 Nixie clock and a supply voltage between 170 and 180 v, what is the optimal anode resistor value?

Hi I have continued to play with variable speed spinners. I wasn't ready to try an all valve (tube) spinner so I allowed myself the "luxury" of two 1N4007 rectifiers to make a voltage doubler from 230VAC. Since I was intending to use a GTE175M as the relaxation oscillator and dekatron driver the doubler gave me 475V for the dekatron and -100V for the keep alive electrode. I have used some jumper blocks to allow the spin to be reversed and to select a number of RC combinations for the oscillator to give a wide frequency range. Some simple information is here: http://www.sgitheach.plus.com/electronics/dekatrons/spin1.html When I get a chance I will add some words and a video of the OG4 and GTE175M in action. But I need to install it into a (safe) case first. Cheers Grahame Highlands Scotland www.sgitheach.plus.net

Hello folks, I was wondering - since my 5EUR quick'n'dirty multimeter is no longer working satisfactory - if it was time to invest some money in a decent Nixie tube multimeter. By decent I mean that it can actually measure voltage, current, resistance, capacitance and inductivity. And it should be compact. I have found a nearly perfect model here: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230492027576 But sadly the auction is already over and this model does not support capacitance & inductivity measurement. Can some of you recommend a specific model? Looking forward to your replies, all the ebst, Jens

Greetings Group, My friend Karol sent me a very interesting package from Poland recently. The most exciting item is a Russian electro-luminescent display that was used in Soviet tanks! It is a multi-segment display - 16 segments I believe. He included the datasheet with some handwritten translations. The problem is that there is no pinout data. I have the equipment to produce the HF sine wave to drive the display, but I'm not sure how to connect it as I haven't worked with EL displays before. I have uploaded the datasheet and two photos of the display to "Files > Other readout technologies". Any assistance would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Mike

In a quest for information on the techniques for making nixie tubes, I came across this recent post on Hack-a-Day about someone who managed to make a (rudimentary) nixie from home. It's a start... Borrowing from Jan's comment in another thread, about passing the hobby on to the next generation: the guy is in his upper 20's and builds tubes from home. If you will, get the guy an old tube factory (Schindler's List-style), a can of neon and let him do his thing! Hack-a-Day http://hackaday.com/2010/07/27/making-nixie-tubes-at-home/ his homepage in English http://tubedevices.com/alek/index_e.htm his nixie building page http://tubedevices.com/alek/pwl/lc1d/homemade_nixie_tubes.pdf My initial quest stands, does anyone has literature (perhaps a video) on nixie building? Marco

No, please, not as art. I've had a rash of people contact me with their great art ideas. A recent person wanted to make an extravagant display of huge tubes, ooh, a row of at least 12, he thinks - possibly more! His regular neon art was impressive, so I took him seriously and responded. He thought that I was the person to make his vision work, electronically. It eventually transpired this man's vision included tubes way in excess, size-wise, of those big Burroughs Jimmies. But what? Are there no bigger tubes? Only Rodans I say. I ask what tubes he has. He has none. I say to him to get tubes and then we can talk. He responded that he rather thought that tubes was my area of expertise and that if I would simply send him a selection of tubes he could choose which he'd like to use. I asked him where he thought I might be able to obtain ready supplies of such antique items. The person had not the courtesy to respond. The main enquiries I get are along the lines of: 'I love your clock but I have this idea and I want it in several colours and instead of the hours I see it having this that and the other, but only on alternate Wednesdays. Will your chip do that? I expect you could do that for me with a very little change to your code. Please send me a circuit diagram of how it all will work. By the way I have no money right now but you will be famous if you make it work for me because I will tell them you did it.' Here is the latest, only last week: I'm interested in your charlieplexed 72-Led Clocks. I would like to know a bit more about your design and what you're selling. Actually, I'm thinking of using this as a sensor interface. I would to interact with Temp sensor, compass and of course the "german clock" DCF-77 and make it has a portable device. (I'm a hobbyist not a professional) And your design is the smallest that I've found on the web! I thought I was an arty type person, but oh creator of the universe, please preserve me from creative people, I beg you. John S

I need one Phillips ZM1040 to replace a outgassed tube in my clock. I would be willing to trade with B7971. If you have an extra Phillips ZM1040, name your price and I will consider. Thanks Dan

Hello, I'm a noob to SMPS (really IC's in general) but have long been a hi-fi and valve guitar amp hobbyist. I've been doing my best to comprehend the Max1771 (http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX1771.pdf), but it's a steep learning curve (not to mention one of the most involved data sheets I've come across). What I'm trying to understand is if I could safely run Nick DeSmith's circuit (see links-->power supplies--->SMPS or desmith.net) at up to 400v, 60-70ma or more? I'm tired of ordering one-off transformers for prototypes and would love to be able to build a HV SMPS so I can simply adjust the output for a particular design. Do I understand correctly that the Max1771's output abilities are simply dependent on the specs of the passive components, diode, inductor, etc? Sorry if this has been addressed--I've tried my best to scroll through old threads. Thanks for your help (and a big thanks to Nick DeSmith for getting me interested enough to sign up at this forum). Eric

I'm planning a dekatron clock project and could use 1 or 2 divide by 12 dekatrons ("duodecals"?) such as GS12D or GC12/4B. Anyone have one you wouldn't mind selling, or have a good source? Thanks, Vince

The recent lot of 6 "fine grid" IN-8 tubes on Ebay sold for $72. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=330456154464 Crazy. I was considering these to be worth maybe twice the $3.75 that standard IN-8s are going for these days. B7971s are going for >$60 used. I'm seriously considering using future funds to purchase Vishay plasma displays rather than Nixies. It seems the days are over for anyone intending to purchase large quantities of big digit Nixies for production of devices for sale. You can actually get a better profit margin on small tube clocks! Figure 6 small tubes for $4 each, that's $24 + $50 for electronics + $50 for enclosure. Sell for $200. $76 profit. 61% markup. Compare to 6 large tubes for $45 each, that's $270 + $100 for electronics plus enclosure. Sell for $500. $130 profit, 35% markup. But even the small tubes are getting rarefied. I'm sure glad I bought at least enough large tubes to make some personal clocks and have replacement tube sets for a good while. The wildcard is we just don't know if the Russian sellers are sitting on 1000s of large tubes and just metering them out into high prices (including IN-8s) or if they are actually winding down supply. Fascinating. By definition, if there are hoards, then the current prices are in bubble territory. But if the supplies are truly scarce, then it's a normal market. It might not be that simple because there is no "marginal cost of production" with which to compare prices.

Hello, Per request. Looking at my last 2 boxes (both not sealed anymore) :) OTK 66 and OTK 71 03 81 11 83 1. Both boxes have the darkening. (I checked other tubes I have and all show this) Actually, my clock above my mantel is from 08 78. It actually appears to have no darkening, but I have in fact had it running for over a year. I don't think darkening is a good way to determine new or not. 2. When I compared the new boxes, I didn't notice a difference on the mica. When I compared to the clocks that have been in use, I did see a difference. BUT, it was so slight that you must compare to a known used pair. I only compared about 20 tubes to the 12 from the 2x clocks. 3. First I thought you meant on the mesh. I looked and looked and found NO darkening on the mesh as it was already dark. heh Glass - I only noticed (on my used tubes) that the glass almost seemed to have fog/haze. You would have to have a clear/clean/new tube next to it to see it. 3a - Silvering? Maybe you mean the black spot that is common on VFD tubes. I did have a few tubes that had very dark spots (left and right side). They were definitely used, but I read from someone else that it was possible during manufacture. I didn't know or care as I purchased as used tubes. They worked perfectly (brightness, etc) - So it didn't matter to me. I have not run into anymore of those (new or used). I do understand that I am comparing a very small sample, and the used tubes I have are only a year old in use. Maybe I should wait a year or two and compare again. Ha! One of my clocks has a tube slightly (but noticeable) difference in brightness. Although the tubes matched (I did the set a year ago) in all numbers (month, year, otk), it has suffered compared to the rest. (darkening of the spacers, mica, etc) - So, although the same dates/otk and been in service for as long as the others, it is in worse shape (not suffering from poisoning in the obvious sense). Also note.... of the two clocks I looked at (12 tubes), I noted that about half had perfectly white ceramic anode space (from the pin to the base mica) and half had darkening. I did not take note of this a year ago. So, I don't know if it was from use or if that is the way they are from factory. The new boxes are strangely all about the same in color. Not perfectly white and not dark. So, my used tubes are on either side of the new ones. So, does use make them perfectly white or darker? heh. And... I notice that all my tubes have pinkish spacers for the numbers. But, the tubes I have which are older than 1978 (So, 1977, 1976, etc) have white/greyish spacers. PS. Jan has been around a while. I would tend to believe him too. (Jan, where is my free ZM1350 for that statement. Just kidding.) Michail Wilson 206-920-6312 In a message dated 7/31/2010 3:47:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, crobc@... writes: 1. darkening of the insulating spacer washers on the support rods between the digits. 2. darkening of the mica support disks (mostly the darkening appears on the top mica disk). 3. darkening of the glass near the rectangular openings in the anode cage on the left and right sides. I think that #1 can occur just with factory burn-in and test procedures. But I would be surprised to see darkening of the glass unless many hours of use had occurred. The mica disks I'm not sure about. I have some Z566M that have darkened mica and significantly darkened ceramic washers. These were also supposed to be new, and Jan at Ask Jan First states that they are new. I tend to believe him. Perhaps you can tell us if new sealed boxes of IN-18 show darkening observation (as described above): #1 ? #2 ? #3 ? Thanks.

OK, I got my single tube counter working, sort of. It scrolls through 0-9 perfectly, but when five is on, six lights up to, and vice versa. I assume this is an overvoltage issue, any ideas how, or where in the circuit to best reduce the voltage? I'm using the tayloredge SMPS, an I have an 25k resistor on the Anode. Thank you all Shane

Not at all, please do! A.J.