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Hi:
I'm shifting into CRT and dekatron mode now that I've bought too many Nixies. I put in an order for a CRT today with Sphere Research, and they told me that someone recently made off with their entire stock of Apollo/ITT DA2110 numitrons.
Anyone here want to fess up?
Just wondering what someone is planning to do with all those.
I'm fascinated mainly by Nixies and CRTs, with VFDs in third. Unfortunately, I seem to have recently gotten bitten by interest in dekatrons.
But occasionally I consider buying a handful of numitrons just to make a numitron clock for the sake of "completeness."
So far I've only added a single numitron to my collection, just to see what it looks like up close. It doesn't help that most of the available ones are very small. Thus, the Russian IV-13 is very interesting, but the price is too high to buy a set (and replacements) "just for completeness."
Good day!
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--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@...> wrote: Anyone here want to fess up? Wasn't me. I bought all the IV-17 VFD's 8-) But occasionally I consider buying a handful of numitrons just to make a numitron clock for the sake of "completeness."
So far I've only added a single numitron to my collection, just to see what it looks like up close. It doesn't help that most of the available ones are very small. Thus, the Russian IV-13 is very interesting, but the price is too high to buy a set (and replacements) "just for completeness." The IV-9 is a nice part and is available from $1.00 to $1.50 each depending on quantity. Oddly, the current eBay listings have the price per tube go UP as quantity increases 10/100/1000. If you don't want to start from scratch, I'd suggest the Numimini kit from Jon Ellis. He posts here from time to time. He sells them in full kit, partially-assembled (surface mount components pre-installed) and fully-assembled versions. There's an ended eBay listing for them at: if you want to see what it looks like or need contact info.
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"figureloop" <crobc@...> wrote:
I'm fascinated mainly by Nixies and CRTs, with VFDs in third.
... I seem to have recently gotten bitten by interest in
dekatrons.
I consider buying a handful of numitrons ... for the sake of
"completeness."
Good day! Yes, getting into these ancient tubes tend to get you off into various tangents. To make you really spend more of your money, I see that you didn't mention magic eyes: If you like CRTs and VFDs, then you're going to have to get a few of their magic eye cousins. Like nixies, dekatrons, VFDs, & numitrons, there are Russian versions available at fairly low cost. Or you can go crazy and try to get a 6T5, for a mere $500US, last I checked.
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--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Terry" <terry+yg@...> wrote: --- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@> wrote:
Anyone here want to fess up? Wasn't me. I bought all the IV-17 VFD's 8-) Did you buy those from Sphere's? Their Russian stuff is overpriced. I made the mistake of buying some IV-22 (for $12/ea!) from Sphere. I thought they were something special until I discovered all the Russian stuff being liquidated on Ebay. I only buy stuff that is truly only available from Sphere's now. The IV-9 is a nice part and is available from $1.00 to $1.50 each depending on quantity. Oddly, the current eBay listings have the price per tube go UP as quantity increases 10/100/1000. That is a great price. Now I have a dillemma. The IV-9 has mediocre Russian quality, whereas the western made stuff is really quite precise. The Nocrotec clock, for instance, is truly beautiful. But the price to get two sets of western tubes is 10x the price of the Russians'. Ugh! If you don't want to start from scratch, I'd suggest the Numimini kit from Jon Ellis. He posts here from time to time. He sells them in full kit, partially-assembled (surface mount components pre-installed) and fully-assembled versions. Well that looks nice, but I prefer 6 digit clocks. Also, I'm into circuit design and programming, so getting a kit would take away most of the fun. Thanks for the comments!
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--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "threeneurons" <threeneurons@...> wrote:
"figureloop" <crobc@> wrote:
I'm fascinated mainly by Nixies and CRTs, with VFDs in third.
... I seem to have recently gotten bitten by interest in
dekatrons.
I consider buying a handful of numitrons ... for the sake of
"completeness."
Good day! Yes, getting into these ancient tubes tend to get you off into various tangents. To make you really spend more of your money, I see that you didn't mention magic eyes:
If you like CRTs and VFDs, then you're going to have to get a few of their magic eye cousins. Like nixies, dekatrons, VFDs, & numitrons, there are Russian versions available at fairly low cost. Or you can go crazy and try to get a 6T5, for a mere $500US, last I checked.
Thanks for the input. I've been familiar with magic eyes for a long time. I acquired a capacitor tester with one as a kid, and sold it off a few years ago. Compared to CRTs and numeric or alpha readouts, they just aren't useful enough. But dekatrons are really looking interesting, and potentially useful as a 1/10 second spinner for a Nixie clock.
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--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@...> wrote: Did you buy those from Sphere's? Their Russian stuff is overpriced. I made the mistake of buying some IV-22 (for $12/ea!) from Sphere. I thought they were something special until I discovered all the Russian stuff being liquidated on Ebay. I only buy stuff that is truly only available from Sphere's now. No, I picked up a couple large batches on eBay and some others from a private seller I found. My average price for the thousand or so I got was 57 cents each. That is a great price. Now I have a dillemma. The IV-9 has mediocre Russian quality, whereas the western made stuff is really quite precise. The Nocrotec clock, for instance, is truly beautiful.
But the price to get two sets of western tubes is 10x the price of the Russians'. Ugh! I've had a dozen or so IV-9's running continually (including the decimal points) for 14 months now and there's no appreciable dimming and no segments have burned out. I expect that the lifetimes of the Russian parts (including VFD's and the Nixies with mercury added) are vastly underestimated in the published data sheets. Someone on this list (or was it the smartsocket list?) did an accelerated-aging test on the IV-4 (datasheet lifetime: 1000 hours) and found no discernable difference in brightness. The IV-17 is the same part as the IV-4, but with a longer rated lifetime. I hope that's the case for all Russian VFD's, as I have a bunch of the ¨¨??I_1/7's (I have no idea if the Cyrillic will make it into this message in one piece - I believe that's ILTSI-1/7 in English) which are 5.5" tall single-digit 7-segment VFD tubes. The datasheet says "To be determined" for useful service life.
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--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Terry" <terry+yg@...> wrote: --- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@> wrote:
Did you buy those from Sphere's? Their Russian stuff is overpriced. I made the mistake of buying some IV-22 (for $12/ea!) from Sphere. I thought they were something special until I discovered all the Russian stuff being liquidated on Ebay. I only buy stuff that is truly only available from Sphere's now. No, I picked up a couple large batches on eBay and some others from a private seller I found. My average price for the thousand or so I got was 57 cents each. What are you planning to do with them? I am working on a 12 IV-17 PCB and somewhat universal VFD driver that will be done soon (hopefully, but I keep wasting time on the internet). I have enough tubes to sell a few boards with tubes, then keep a few for my own amusement. I figure I'll make the boards available bare if people like them, once I run low on IV-17 tubes. Do you have a www? I don't right now, but will probably get one going again within the next year. That is a great price. Now I have a dillemma. The IV-9 has mediocre Russian quality, whereas the western made stuff is really quite precise. The Nocrotec clock, for instance, is truly beautiful.
But the price to get two sets of western tubes is 10x the price of the Russians'. Ugh! I've had a dozen or so IV-9's running continually (including the decimal points) for 14 months now and there's no appreciable dimming and no segments have burned out.
That's encouraging for a numitron. I have been thinking about how I might make a constant current driver, but for each segment that's a lot of parts and work! Apparently filament life is inversely proportional to volts to the fourth power, so a large change in lifetime can be afforded by just a slight moderation in voltage. I expect that the lifetimes of the Russian parts (including VFD's and the Nixies with mercury added) are vastly underestimated in the published data sheets. Someone on this list (or was it the smartsocket list?) did an accelerated-aging test on the IV-4 (datasheet lifetime: 1000 hours) and found no discernable difference in brightness. The IV-17 is the same part as the IV-4, but with a longer rated lifetime.
I hope that's the case for all Russian VFD's, as I have a bunch of the ¨¨??I_1/7's (I have no idea if the Cyrillic will make it into this message in one piece - I believe that's ILTSI-1/7 in English) which are 5.5" tall single-digit 7-segment VFD tubes. The datasheet says "To be determined" for useful service life. Well I hope the VFDs last as well! Good day!
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--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@...> wrote: What are you planning to do with them? I am working on a 12 IV-17 PCB and somewhat universal VFD driver that will be done soon (hopefully, but I keep wasting time on the internet). I plan on (eventually) producing clock kits and assembled clocks. Since these tubes are a lot less expensive than nixies (and are alpha-numeric) I think they'll be popular. Do you have a www? I don't right now, but will probably get one going again within the next year. (general stuff) (my race car, which keeps me away from electronics) (work - not much there that's visible to the public) That's encouraging for a numitron. I have been thinking about how I might make a constant current driver, but for each segment that's a lot of parts and work! Apparently filament life is inversely proportional to volts to the fourth power, so a large change in lifetime can be afforded by just a slight moderation in voltage. Take a look at the Allegro A6278/9 parts. Quickly - the A6278's are pre-eol and one of the A6279's is last-time buy. I believe in using dedicated drivers (like the Supertex on Nixies) - it frees me up to play with the cool stuff in software and not have to worry about a program error burning out a tube or more.
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--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Terry" <terry+yg@...> wrote:
--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "figureloop" <crobc@> wrote:
What are you planning to do with them? I am working on a 12 IV-17 PCB and somewhat universal VFD driver that will be done soon (hopefully, but I keep wasting time on the internet). I plan on (eventually) producing clock kits and assembled clocks. Since these tubes are a lot less expensive than nixies (and are alpha-numeric) I think they'll be popular.
Do you have a www? I don't right now, but will probably get one going again within the next year. (general stuff)
(my race car, which keeps me away from electronics)
Interesting. (work - not much there that's visible to the public)
That's encouraging for a numitron. I have been thinking about how I might make a constant current driver, but for each segment that's a lot of parts and work! Apparently filament life is inversely proportional to volts to the fourth power, so a large change in lifetime can be afforded by just a slight moderation in voltage. Take a look at the Allegro A6278/9 parts. Quickly - the A6278's are pre-eol and one of the A6279's is last-time buy. I believe in using dedicated drivers (like the Supertex on Nixies) - it frees me up to play with the cool stuff in software and not have to worry about a program error burning out a tube or more. I just bought 240 Supertex HV5812 since the A6812 was in last time buy status. I doubt I'll plan on any quantity production of Numitron clocks (ugh, the last thing I need is more ideas!), so if anything I may look at a higher voltage driver for Nixies. My first clock design just used MPSA42 transistors and 'HC595s. About the processor screwing the tubes, this is an interesting design issue that I will be grappling with in my VFD driver. I wanted to accomplish a biased AC filament drive, with no magnetics. So I have a drive scheme that will start out being guided by a microcontroller PWM output. If the PWM duty gets set too high, then it is pretty bad--it could take out all the VFD filaments! But if the PWM output simply locks up, then it is no problem since the power drive is AC coupled. For a final design I'll probably make a dedicated PWM circuit not dependent on the uC, but then again, having the uC do it makes it possible to gently ramp the filament drive. A tradeoff might be to just ensure that the supply voltage for the filament power circuit is such that close to full duty % is needed to power the filaments in the first place. Then a little bit of overdrive caused by a development error won't be catastrophic. I think that once a piece of software is ready for prime time, it's possible to place high confidence that it will control power electronics without faults. This is the direction things are going these days.
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--- In NEONIXIE-L@..., "Terry" <terry+yg@...> wrote: If you don't want to start from scratch, I'd suggest the Numimini kit from Jon Ellis. He posts here from time to time. He sells them in full kit, partially-assembled (surface mount components pre-installed) and fully-assembled versions. There's an ended eBay listing for them at: if you want to see what it looks like or need contact info.
Thanks for the plug, Terry :) If anyone here wants one in whatever form, you can contact me directly through the list. I've just found out that the A6279 driver chip used in the clock is on last time buy for the relevant package. I'm going to get a bunch in, but then that'll be it for a while until I can find the time to redesign the PCB (sigh). Don't hold your breath. Jon.
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