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New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

 

Hello Kurt,

My screen shot of nanoVNA-saver of the 30 cm RG174 coax cable shows wrong data.
I have my 50 cm RG316 tes coax cable forgotten to insert.
Please see the corrected screen shot: nanoVNA-saver_RG174-30cm-open-end_corrected.png

73, Rudi DL5FA
 

Hello Kurt,

here follows the forgotten attachment: nanoVNA-saver_RG174-30cm-open-end_corrected.png

73, Rudi DL5FA

nanoVNA-saver_RG174-30cm-open-end_corrected.png

 

Hi Rudi
I have made a report which by examples show you how to do. You have a poor calibration as the trace is outside Smith Chart and you have not impelemted the delay You need to use the latest 0.2.1 NanoVNA-Saver with Offset implemented which has an error as the delay is to enter by a factor of 10.
Regarding difficulties to see the entire NanoVNA-Saver remember to maximize and in my case font size 7 then it is perfect
Kind regards
Kurt


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af reuterr@...
Sendt: 7. december 2019 19:19
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 03:54 PM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:

Regarding the impedance issue i did look at the phase oscillation from
0.5 to 500MHz when I in the ZPLots has subtracted the length where the
Phase approaches a straight line with oscillations. Then I change the
ZO on either side off 50 ohm in steps of 0.1 ohm and for 51.4 ohm the
phase oscillation was minimized. The return loss oscillation is not
changed by changing the Z0 but rather due to port mismatch.
Hello Kurt,

Thank you very much for your quick answer.

I have 3 questions:
1. Where did you subtract the length (20 cm) ?

2. Did you mean that the S11 phase oscillation curve (about sinus) horizontal center line
should be minimised to a straight line and not be bowed?

3. Did you mean with the change of Z0 to connect a resistor of 50 Ohm
at the end of the 22 cm coax cable? And then vary this resistor in 0.1 Ohm steps
to minimise the amplitude of the phase oscillation amplitude?

I mean your file "NanoVNA supplied cable 50K to 500MHz.png" in post 7877 at 2019-12-05 20:10.

In this screen shot there are 2 diagrams with S11 Phase.
When I try to get a similar diagram with a 30 cm RG174 coax cable with open end I get see attached screen shot nanoVNA-saver_RG174-30cm-open-end.png

73, Rudi DL5FA

How_to_display_delay_shift_for_a_cable_in_NanoVNA_saver.pdf
How_to_display_delay_shift_for_a_cable_in_NanoVNA_saver.pdf

 

Hi Rudi
Your screen shots is very hard to view. A dark background would help a lot.
I think the other details is explained in the report you just have received
Kind regards
Kurt

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af reuterr@...
Sendt: 7. december 2019 21:43
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

Hello Kurt,

here follows the forgotten attachment: nanoVNA-saver_RG174-30cm-open-end_corrected.png

73, Rudi DL5FA
 

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the tip Softmaker freeoffice. It has a full visual basic compatibilty with free version? Zplots not work on older excel, libre office and openoffice. Currently write reply from my phone, i will test later.

73,
Lajos
 

Thanks for the tip Softmaker freeoffice.
It has a full visual basic compatibilty with free version?
No:

 

Hi Rudi
The ZPlots has facilities as mentioned before to calculate Z0 as function of Frequency base on measurement of an open and shorted cable. Here is the result for the 33cm cable we are discussing. As you see there is interesting "bumps" along the frequency axe due to switching to harmonic modes for the NanoVNA
Kind regards
Kurt

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af reuterr@...
Sendt: 7. december 2019 19:19
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 03:54 PM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:

Regarding the impedance issue i did look at the phase oscillation from
0.5 to 500MHz when I in the ZPLots has subtracted the length where the
Phase approaches a straight line with oscillations. Then I change the
ZO on either side off 50 ohm in steps of 0.1 ohm and for 51.4 ohm the
phase oscillation was minimized. The return loss oscillation is not
changed by changing the Z0 but rather due to port mismatch.
Hello Kurt,

Thank you very much for your quick answer.

I have 3 questions:
1. Where did you subtract the length (20 cm) ?

2. Did you mean that the S11 phase oscillation curve (about sinus) horizontal center line
should be minimised to a straight line and not be bowed?

3. Did you mean with the change of Z0 to connect a resistor of 50 Ohm
at the end of the 22 cm coax cable? And then vary this resistor in 0.1 Ohm steps
to minimise the amplitude of the phase oscillation amplitude?

I mean your file "NanoVNA supplied cable 50K to 500MHz.png" in post 7877 at 2019-12-05 20:10.

In this screen shot there are 2 diagrams with S11 Phase.
When I try to get a similar diagram with a 30 cm RG174 coax cable with open end I get see attached screen shot nanoVNA-saver_RG174-30cm-open-end.png

73, Rudi DL5FA

33cm_NanoVNA_supplied_cable_Impedance_by_ZPlots.png

 

Unfortunately, I have not tried to use zplot at this time but since Softmaker claims it is compatible, it may work.?



On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 at 1:47 AM, pgc1682@...<pgc1682@...> wrote: Hi Larry,

Thanks for the tip Softmaker freeoffice. It has a full visual basic compatibilty with free version? Zplots not work on older excel, libre office and openoffice. Currently write reply from my phone, i will test later.

73,
Lajos
Andy
 

On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 12:12 PM, Larry Rothman wrote:


Zplots not work on older excel, libre office and openoffic
I tried ZPLOT on Libre Office V5, no go too.

73 de Andy
 

Ok.??
A quick search mentions Google sheets and IBM Lotus Symphony and a few others as alternatives.??
Maybe someone with experience using zplot can test it on the various free Excel alternatives and give the results here?? That would help other forum members.?



On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 at 7:17 AM, Andy via Groups.Io<punkbiscuit@...> wrote: On Sun, Dec? 8, 2019 at 12:12 PM, Larry Rothman wrote:


Zplots not work on older excel, libre office and openoffic
I tried ZPLOT on Libre Office V5, no go too.

73 de Andy
 

Hi Lajos
It requires the Softmaker freeOffice can handle macros. Looking at the link provided to Softmaker freeOffice it does not look so. Besides there is no such freeOffice on the Softmaker webside but only a free 30days trial
Kind regards
Kurt

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Larry Rothman
Sendt: 8. december 2019 13:10
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

Unfortunately, I have not tried to use zplot at this time but since Softmaker claims it is compatible, it may work.



On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 at 1:47 AM, pgc1682@...<pgc1682@...> wrote: Hi Larry,

Thanks for the tip Softmaker freeoffice. It has a full visual basic compatibilty with free version? Zplots not work on older excel, libre office and openoffice. Currently write reply from my phone, i will test later.

73,
Lajos
 

Hi Kurt,
Free office has its own website:?
Too bad the free version doesn't run macros.?
... Larry



On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 at 8:15 AM, Kurt Poulsen<kurt@...> wrote: Hi Lajos
It requires the Softmaker freeOffice can handle macros. Looking at the link provided to Softmaker freeOffice it does not look so. Besides there is no such freeOffice on the Softmaker webside but only a free 30days trial
Kind regards
Kurt

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Larry Rothman
Sendt: 8. december 2019 13:10
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

Unfortunately, I have not tried to use zplot at this time but since Softmaker claims it is compatible, it may work.



? On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 at 1:47 AM, pgc1682@...<pgc1682@...> wrote:? Hi Larry,

Thanks for the tip Softmaker freeoffice. It has a full visual basic compatibilty with free version? Zplots not work on older excel, libre office and openoffice. Currently write reply from my phone, i will test later.

73,
Lajos
 

On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 04:49 AM, Larry Rothman wrote:
?
¡­ A quick search mentions Google sheets and IBM Lotus Symphony and a few others as alternatives...
======================================================================================

Larry,
ZPLOT uses VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) to draw its user interface and also do some underlying calculations. Other than AutoCad I don't know of any other applications that have licensed VBA from Microsoft for use as their scripting language. I suppose the VBA licensing fees are the primary factor

I did get sidetracked looking at the underlying VBA code in ZPLOTS. Some of the mathematical coding is educational for those geeks amongst us, of which I admit I am one.

- Herb
 

I think to remember that Zplot runs under Excel 97, so I searched the web and found a German website where to download . .

I did not have the time to try it.

This might help.

Jos

Op 8-12-2019 om 14:36 schreef hwalker:

On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 04:49 AM, Larry Rothman wrote:
¡­ A quick search mentions Google sheets and IBM Lotus Symphony and a few others as alternatives...
======================================================================================

Larry,
ZPLOT uses VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) to draw its user interface and also do some underlying calculations. Other than AutoCad I don't know of any other applications that have licensed VBA from Microsoft for use as their scripting language. I suppose the VBA licensing fees are the primary factor

I did get sidetracked looking at the underlying VBA code in ZPLOTS. Some of the mathematical coding is educational for those geeks amongst us, of which I admit I am one.

- Herb
 

Hi Lajos
Thank you very much for link. It might be a useful program for other purposes
Kind Regards
Kurt

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Larry Rothman
Sendt: 8. december 2019 14:28
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

Hi Kurt,
Free office has its own website: Too bad the free version doesn't run macros. ... Larry



On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 at 8:15 AM, Kurt Poulsen<kurt@...> wrote: Hi Lajos
It requires the Softmaker freeOffice can handle macros. Looking at the link provided to Softmaker freeOffice it does not look so. Besides there is no such freeOffice on the Softmaker webside but only a free 30days trial Kind regards Kurt

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Larry Rothman
Sendt: 8. december 2019 13:10
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

Unfortunately, I have not tried to use zplot at this time but since Softmaker claims it is compatible, it may work.



On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 at 1:47 AM, pgc1682@...<pgc1682@...> wrote: Hi Larry,

Thanks for the tip Softmaker freeoffice. It has a full visual basic compatibilty with free version? Zplots not work on older excel, libre office and openoffice. Currently write reply from my phone, i will test later.

73,
Lajos
 

Please be aware that legal use of anything from that site is iffy at best due to copyright laws.?
I searched the site for anything regarding original copyright ownership and could not find anything so it is really no better than downloading from a pirate site.?
Please be aware.?



On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 at 9:08 AM, Jos Stevens<jrs@...> wrote: I think to remember that Zplot runs under Excel 97, so I searched the
web and found a German website where to download .
.

I did not have the time to try it.

This might help.

Jos

Op 8-12-2019 om 14:36 schreef hwalker:

On Sun, Dec? 8, 2019 at 04:49 AM, Larry Rothman wrote:
?
¡­? A quick search mentions Google sheets and IBM Lotus Symphony and a few others as alternatives...
======================================================================================

Larry,
ZPLOT uses VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) to draw its user interface and also do some underlying calculations.? Other than AutoCad I don't know of any other applications that have licensed VBA from Microsoft for use as their scripting language.? I suppose the VBA licensing fees are the primary factor

I did get sidetracked looking at the underlying VBA code in ZPLOTS. Some of the mathematical coding is educational for those geeks amongst us, of which I admit I am one.

- Herb
 

If you have a guilty conscience you can buy a NIB copy of Office 97
over on that auction site for $5 !!

73 es HH, Dick, W1KSZ
________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Larry Rothman <nlroth@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 8:32 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

Please be aware that legal use of anything from that site is iffy at best due to copyright laws.
I searched the site for anything regarding original copyright ownership and could not find anything so it is really no better than downloading from a pirate site.
Please be aware.



On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 at 9:08 AM, Jos Stevens<jrs@...> wrote: I think to remember that Zplot runs under Excel 97, so I searched the
web and found a German website where to download .
.

I did not have the time to try it.

This might help.

Jos

Op 8-12-2019 om 14:36 schreef hwalker:
On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 04:49 AM, Larry Rothman wrote:

¡­ A quick search mentions Google sheets and IBM Lotus Symphony and a few others as alternatives...
======================================================================================

Larry,
ZPLOT uses VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) to draw its user interface and also do some underlying calculations. Other than AutoCad I don't know of any other applications that have licensed VBA from Microsoft for use as their scripting language. I suppose the VBA licensing fees are the primary factor

I did get sidetracked looking at the underlying VBA code in ZPLOTS. Some of the mathematical coding is educational for those geeks amongst us, of which I admit I am one.

- Herb
 

Sorry, didn't know that the site was illegal !

Jos

Op 8-12-2019 om 16:58 schreef Dick:

If you have a guilty conscience you can buy a NIB copy of Office 97
over on that auction site for $5 !!

73 es HH, Dick, W1KSZ
________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Larry Rothman <nlroth@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 8:32 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] New version of NanoVNA-Saver: 0.2.1

Please be aware that legal use of anything from that site is iffy at best due to copyright laws.
I searched the site for anything regarding original copyright ownership and could not find anything so it is really no better than downloading from a pirate site.
Please be aware.



On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 at 9:08 AM, Jos Stevens<jrs@...> wrote: I think to remember that Zplot runs under Excel 97, so I searched the
web and found a German website where to download .
.

I did not have the time to try it.

This might help.

Jos

Op 8-12-2019 om 14:36 schreef hwalker:
On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 04:49 AM, Larry Rothman wrote:

¡­ A quick search mentions Google sheets and IBM Lotus Symphony and a few others as alternatives...
======================================================================================

Larry,
ZPLOT uses VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) to draw its user interface and also do some underlying calculations. Other than AutoCad I don't know of any other applications that have licensed VBA from Microsoft for use as their scripting language. I suppose the VBA licensing fees are the primary factor

I did get sidetracked looking at the underlying VBA code in ZPLOTS. Some of the mathematical coding is educational for those geeks amongst us, of which I admit I am one.

- Herb
 

Hello Kurt,

Thank you very much for your paper How_to_display_delay_shift_for_a_cable_in_NanoVNA_saver.pdf

I tried to follow your advice.

By reviewing all Display Parameters of nanoVNA-saver I brought it to about your style for a better readability, see:
Display settings:
Point size 3 px
Line thickness 3 px
Marker size 14 px
Filled markers Yes
Data point is: At the tip of the marker
Fontsize 11 pt
Opacity Reference color 15% -> 50%

Marker settings:
S11 Group delay - Add

page 2: see my screenshot CH0_RG316-50cm_202_500MHz_Open_Group-delay.png
Unfortunately with each sweep the Group Delay varies very much,
between -6 and +8 ps. So, what to take?
The S11 Phase trace was "unwrapped".

page 3: your calculation -1.883 ps * 250 MHz * 360 = -169468
page 5: Here for the Offset Delay a number of -167800 was used,
is that the same value?

I loaded the exported OPEN file nanoVNA_RG174-30cm_202_500MHz_Open.s1p
in Zplots, see screen shot Zplots_page9_RG174-30cm.PNG.
Next step was to click to "Add/Sub".
See screen shot Zplots_page10_RG174-30cm.PNG.
Unfortunately the Length = 30932,2 mm, is x100 of the real length of 309 mm.

At this point I gave up, sorry.
---
Another test was the *comparison* of your file "33cm NanoVNA supplied cable open.s1p" from the archive "Cable measurement.zip" with my own 30 cm RG174 coax cable.

In my measurement of a 30 cm RG174 coax cable, see screen shot nanoVNA-saver_RG174-30cm_Open.png.
I imported your S1P file "33cm NanoVNA supplied cable open.s1p" as a *reference*.
The result is in my screen shot nanoVNA-saver_RG174-30cm_Open_Ref.png.
For me it looks very much the same.
What is you impression?

73, Rudi DL5FA

CH0_RG316-50cm_202_500MHz_Open_Group-delay.png
nanoVNA_RG173-30cm_202_500MHz_Open.s1p
nanoVNA_RG173-30cm_202_500MHz_Open.s1p
Zplots_page9_RG174-30cm.PNG
Zplots_page10_RG174-30cm.PNG
nanoVNA-saver_RG174-30cm_Open.png
nanoVNA-saver_RG174-30cm_Open_Ref.png

 

Hi Rudi,

I loaded to Sim Smith Chart your s1p data file. I see some calibrations and/or nanovna errors. The circle not spiral to centre point simmetrically. I subract 31,22cm RG-174 cable from internal model. I have good result to 150 Mhz (blue dot). See attached picture. Currently not have Excel to try zplots. It is my ultra cheap ultra portable laptop only 1024x600 pixel resulution. Sorry for low resolution attachment.

73,
Lajos

rg174.png

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