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I updated this spreadsheet for the convenience of others by rearranging the columns and including instructions in the spreadsheet.

~R~
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
The Dusty Key
On the banks of the Piscataqua

Rich, What is SWR:Linear?

Roger

On 2022-05-30 09:44:-0700, you wrote:

Rich, What is SWR:Linear?

Not sure. I was using the spreadsheet to
1. Confirm that menu items were returning values I expected, so that I could update the manual with meaningful language
2. Explore data relationships.

I provided the spreadsheet in a separate thread so that
1. It would be easier to find, rather than being an offhand reply to a different message
2. Provide a path for those not as familiar with spreadsheets to be able to import data easier, and to see how the complex data is handled by Excel. Many of the formulae are in the user manual posted in the files section, so folks wanting to create their own spreadsheets (for plotting and comparisons, data exploration, etc) can use those equations to process the data once it is in complex form.

Then it's up to users to decide how to use it.

~R~

Thank you for doing this for us
Mike

Thanks Rich, that's very helpful for those of us using EXCEL for data manipulation or graphing. Your equations are much tidier than what I was using.
Rudy N6LF

Wading through file I have not been able to find what variables "Linear" and "SWR Linear" mean.

Looking at formulas on the spreadsheet, "Linear" ( Column G) contains the absolute value (magnitude) of S11, IS11I, which is in polar terms the magnitude "rho", as used in the polar notation for Gamma (or reflection coefficient) Gamma= rho * Angle Theta. One might replace "Linear" with "Rho".

"Rho" is used to calculate "Return Loss," being defined as RL= 20log(1/rho)

Rho is also used in the VSWR calculation: VSWR = (!+ Rho)/(1-Rho)

As far as SWR:Linear is concerned (column H), the formula indicates it is the the SWR Value (column F) divided by 10 x "linear" or "rho".
I've never seen that description (SWR:Linear) in practice or use, but a new dawn rises daily.
Can anyone shed light on what this ration SWR:Linear might be used for?

Ed McCann
AG6CX

Linear simply means the conversion of dB to linear units. i.e. 10^(dB/10) or maybe 10^(dBV/20)
Gary
W9TD

On 2022-06-04 10:40:-0700, you wrote:

Looking at formulas on the spreadsheet, "Linear" ( Column G) contains the absolute value (magnitude) of S11,

The user manual states that it is the | S11 |. I think that "Linear" is a bit of a misnomer, but it is what it is until it ain't.

~R~

It ain’t.



Ed McCann
AG6CX

It ain’t.



Ed McCann
AG6CX

Hello Rich:

As a kid in the 50s, I was K1CJO, one end of whose single wire fed windom was actually suspended by a tree that eventually fell into the Piscataqua River in Eliot, Maine, to the delight of the neighbors, with whom I had WATV sets.

In any event, rainy day in Sausalito led me back into your spread sheet, and noticed an errata I pass along.

Your cell “M4” states value of RLdB = 35.9176dB

Formula for cell “M4” shows = 20 x log10 (0.16), which actually calculates to 20 x (-0.79588) = -15.917 dB

If you were trying to show Return Loss, that would be calculated by:

RL dB = 20 log10(1/rho) or 20log10(1/ Is11I)

using your cells

RL dB = 20 log10(1/G4 or 1/M4)
= 20 x log10( 1/.33735) = 20 x log10(2.9643)= 9.438 dB

Small fix.

Plants like the rain.

73

Ed McCann
AG6CX

Hi Ed,
Just returned home...don't have an nVNA handy...
There are 2 questions on the table.

1. What does the H4 show for FORMAT > LINEAR?
ans: LINEAR - Magnitude (absolute value) of Sxy.
That's if I recall correctly.
That's why the Linear col in the spreadsheet calculates | S11 |.
The user manual is an attempt to lay out for folks what the H4 is doing...for example, when I first saw LINEAR, I wondered what that could be. I don't associate the word "linear" with "absolute value", "Euclidean norm", or "p-norm", where p=2. So I took a data set, and, using the same data (not scanning), changed the formats to see what they displayed.
I /think/ that if someone fires up an H4 and sets the display format to LINEAR, they will find it is | S11 |.
If that turns out to be the case, then right or wrong, that's what LINEAR means in an H4.

2. What does "one_port.pdf" say?
Well, to begin with, not the point. The point is to document what the H4 is doing, whether or not it is doing it correctly.
Then..."one_port.pdf" says
Just as for the Return Loss, the VSWR (dimensionless) is calculated from rho...(11)
where 1+rho = 1+| S11 |
seemingly suggesting that rho is the magnitude of S11.
I havna really read the doc...

I welcome discussion...

Hi Ed,
Well...new day!
Raised in the woods...literally...in N Maine. 2-room school. No electricity until I was 10.
Traveled quite a bit after 18. Spent a lot of time in Ca, including visiting Sausalito. Lived in SF, N of SF later, then San Clemente, and Oceanside.

Now back in New England. Not often to hear of someone from the area, though there are a lot of active hams in New England. We test 5-10 per month, new and upgrades.

Your cell “M4” states value of RLdB = 35.9176dB

I see you are one of those folks who like "smart" quotes...apparently, my email is too dumb to understand them. Sigh. Like me, like my email ;-)
Actually L4 in my copy...

Small fix.

Not necessary...as I posted in the thread, the point of the spreadsheet is just to give folks the tools do as they like. No warranty expressed or implied. Feel free to use it as ye will.

~R~
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
The Dusty Key
On the banks of the Piscataqua

On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 12:45 PM, AG6CX wrote:

Formula for cell “M4” shows = 20 x log10 (0.16), which actually calculates
to 20 x (-0.79588) = -15.917 dB

Actually, it's
-20 x log10 (0.016)
--
~R~
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
The Dusty Key
On the banks of the Piscataqua

I updated the spreadsheet with a note, and removed the column that was confusing (just one of my experiments).

--
~R~
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
The Dusty Key
On the banks of the Piscataqua

Hi Rich:

Thanks for the correction.
You are absolutely correct as presented, .016 for this leads one to the 35.917 dB answer

And your cell was L4 not M4.

Glad confusion removed on final version.

Enjoyed the Pisacataqua discourse: fastest tidal flowing river in the US, if I correctly recall. Big moon tide took out the tree supporting my antenna end, and headed to Kittery.

Ed McCann
AG6CX

Thanks for the comments to spur me on...I earlier felt that I had better clean up the spreadsheet just to avoid more confusion, but never took the time. Glad that it's turned out to be of some use. Wasna sure when I posted it if anyone would be interested.
--
~R~
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
The Dusty Key
On the banks of the Piscataqua

Thanks Rich, your spreadsheet also helped me to spur on some of my work.
Thanks for sharing!

All the best,

Victor

Op za 11 jun. 2022 om 21:41 schreef Rich NE1EE <TheDustyKey@...