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H4 hardware questions

Glen K4KV #15833 Hello, I am in the process of laying out the schematic for the H4 on KiCad. My version will have the STM32F446RE chip, that has a whole lot more memory and speed. Anyway, I cannot resolve (find) the following things: On the CODEC/processor MCLK, I2S_DIN Others may comment on this problem: the 446RE does not have pin PB11 for I2S_WCLK I am not sure how, or even if, the I2S is being used.? More research on the 446RE I2S capabilities will be required. The 446RE has 64 pins, which allows the FULL Port C, and even a PD2 pin.? I will break out the extra lines into some sort of pin conditioning circuits to allow more I/O. The graphical display, touch screen, and USB allows for a great development platform. 73 Glen K4KV
Larry Rothman All Messages By This Member #15843 Glen, The MCLK is from the 5351 chip and the?I2S_DIN isn't used.?? Just highlight and use search on the schematic PDF to see the associated pins.? On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 10:31 AM, Glen K4KV<glenk4kv@...> wrote: Hello, I am in the process of laying out the schematic for the H4 on KiCad. My version will have the STM32F446RE chip, that has a whole lot more memory and speed. Anyway, I cannot resolve (find) the following things: On the CODEC/processor MCLK, I2S_DIN Others may comment on this problem: the 446RE does not have pin PB11 for I2S_WCLK I am not sure how, or even if, the I2S is being used.? More research on the 446RE I2S capabilities will be required. The 446RE has 64 pins, which allows the FULL Port C, and even a PD2 pin.? I will break out the extra lines into some sort of pin conditioning circuits to allow more I/O. The graphical display, touch screen, and USB allows for a great development platform. 73 Glen K4KV
Dragan Milivojevic All Messages By This Member #15845 Out of pure curiosity: why are you recreating an obsolete design? toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 16:31, Glen K4KV <glenk4kv@...> wrote: Hello, I am in the process of laying out the schematic for the H4 on KiCad.
Glen K4KV #15846 Larry, Thanks!? I finally DID find the MCLK? ;-) 73 Glen K4KV toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 7/30/2020 13:02, Larry Rothman wrote: Glen, The MCLK is from the 5351 chip and the?I2S_DIN isn't used. Just highlight and use search on the schematic PDF to see the associated pins. On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 10:31 AM, Glen K4KV<glenk4kv@...> wrote: Hello, I am in the process of laying out the schematic for the H4 on KiCad. My version will have the STM32F446RE chip, that has a whole lot more memory and speed. Anyway, I cannot resolve (find) the following things: On the CODEC/processor MCLK, I2S_DIN Others may comment on this problem: the 446RE does not have pin PB11 for I2S_WCLK I am not sure how, or even if, the I2S is being used.? More research on the 446RE I2S capabilities will be required. The 446RE has 64 pins, which allows the FULL Port C, and even a PD2 pin.? I will break out the extra lines into some sort of pin conditioning circuits to allow more I/O. The graphical display, touch screen, and USB allows for a great development platform. 73 Glen K4KV
Glen K4KV #15847 It is a starting point, to be upgraded AFTER Hugen's new hardware comes along. And, AGAIN, I am using this for other things as well... 73 Glen K4KV toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 7/30/2020 13:36, Dragan Milivojevic wrote: Out of pure curiosity: why are you recreating an obsolete design? On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 16:31, Glen K4KV <glenk4kv@...> wrote: Hello, I am in the process of laying out the schematic for the H4 on KiCad.
Dragan Milivojevic All Messages By This Member #15849 Unless I'm mistaken, hugen switched to the "V2" (S-A-A) design? toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 19:39, Glen K4KV <glenk4kv@...> wrote: It is a starting point, to be upgraded AFTER Hugen's new hardware comes along. And, AGAIN, I am using this for other things as well... 73 Glen K4KV On 7/30/2020 13:36, Dragan Milivojevic wrote: Out of pure curiosity: why are you recreating an obsolete design? On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 16:31, Glen K4KV <glenk4kv@...> wrote: Hello, I am in the process of laying out the schematic for the H4 on KiCad.
Roger Need All Messages By This Member #15852 The -H4 is not "obsolete". It is currently in production. Roger
Dragan Milivojevic All Messages By This Member #15853 Obsolete design. As I understand it there will not be any substantial improvements of that design and new development will go into V2. Maybe Hugen can clarify ... On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 23:12, Roger Need via groups.io <sailtamarack= [email protected]> wrote: The -H4 is not "obsolete". It is currently in production. Roger
Glen K4KV #15856 Although it is not important to me, I thought Hugen said he was using the Si chip not the AD chip to reach 1500Mhz in the new design.? I am not that familiar with the SAA V2, and do not own one.? I trust Hugen, because the H4 was really good for the money. Not to get too deep into it, the current V2 missed the mark, and they could have hit a home run... 73 Glen K4KV toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 7/30/2020 18:13, Dragan Milivojevic wrote: Obsolete design. As I understand it there will not be any substantial improvements of that design and new development will go into V2. Maybe Hugen can clarify ... On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 23:12, Roger Need via groups.io <sailtamarack= [email protected]> wrote: The -H4 is not "obsolete". It is currently in production. Roger
Dragan Milivojevic All Messages By This Member #15858 On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 01:26, Glen K4KV <glenk4kv@...> wrote: Although it is not important to me, I thought Hugen said he was using the Si chip not the AD chip to reach 1500Mhz in the new design. I am not that familiar with the I guess I missed that, could not blame him if he made that decision just to avoid the nonsense from the HCXQS. SAA V2, and do not own one. I trust Hugen, because the H4 was really good for the money. Not to get too deep into it, the current V2 missed the mark, and they could have hit a home run... He sells the V2 and it is a better design but the toxic behavior ... They indeed missed the mark, they could have ruled the market but the arrogance and bad logistics have done them. Got banned (temporarily) from the V2 group for debunking their FUD, lousy business etiquette. Feel bad for OwOComm (the designers), they did a great job but hooked up with the wrong people. 73 Dragan YT3ART
hwalker All Messages By This Member #15859 On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 03:14 PM, Dragan Milivojevic wrote: Obsolete design. As I understand it there will not be any substantial improvements of that design and new development will go into V2. ------------------------------------------------- Dragan, DiSlord has already received an H4 prototype from hugen using the si4432 for operation up to 900MHz with fundamentals instead of harmonics. Hopefully the use of the si4432 and re-work of the mixers will result in legitimate 1500-2400MHz operation. My VNA applications are usually below 1500MHz and the H4 is easier for me to work with than the SAA-2, because of DiSlord's firmware and easy prototyping with console commands. I generally only use my SAA-2 as a reference unit for verification checks. Both the NanoVNA-H4 and SAA-2 have their place in hugen's product line. Hugen's knows the NanoVNA-H4 inside and out. He will probably add DiSlord's sandisk card improvements onboard, plus the si4432, in the next release. Other than a 4" display and better packaging, I don't see hugen doing a lot with the SAA-2. - Herb
Dragan Milivojevic All Messages By This Member #15860 That is interesting, I guess the decision was driven by TinySA development. Wrong path from the design side IMHO but improved widgets always sell better so from the business POW it will be a success. toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 04:05, hwalker <herbwalker2476@...> wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 03:14 PM, Dragan Milivojevic wrote: Obsolete design. As I understand it there will not be any substantial improvements of that design and new development will go into V2. ------------------------------------------------- Dragan, DiSlord has already received an H4 prototype from hugen using the si4432 for operation up to 900MHz with fundamentals instead of harmonics. Hopefully the use of the si4432 and re-work of the mixers will result in legitimate 1500-2400MHz operation. My VNA applications are usually below 1500MHz and the H4 is easier for me to work with than the SAA-2, because of DiSlord's firmware and easy prototyping with console commands. I generally only use my SAA-2 as a reference unit for verification checks. Both the NanoVNA-H4 and SAA-2 have their place in hugen's product line. Hugen's knows the NanoVNA-H4 inside and out. He will probably add DiSlord's sandisk card improvements onboard, plus the si4432, in the next release. Other than a 4" display and better packaging, I don't see hugen doing a lot with the SAA-2. - Herb
Larry Rothman All Messages By This Member #15861 There are actually two version 2 designs:? OwOComm designed the first V2 (S.A.A.) and Hugen, the second V2 (S.A.A.V2.2) It is my understanding that Hugen tweaked the SAA design somewhat to improve noise levels.? YMMV On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 8:01 PM, Dragan Milivojevic<d.milivojevic@...> wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 01:26, Glen K4KV <glenk4kv@...> wrote: Although it is not important to me, I thought Hugen said he was using the Si chip not the AD chip to reach 1500Mhz in the new design.? I am not that familiar with the I guess I missed that, could not blame him if he made that decision just to avoid the nonsense from the HCXQS. SAA V2, and do not own one.? I trust Hugen, because the H4 was really good for the money. Not to get too deep into it, the current V2 missed the mark, and they could have hit a home run... He sells the V2 and it is a better design but the toxic behavior ... They indeed missed the mark, they could have ruled the market but the arrogance and bad logistics have done them. Got banned (temporarily) from the V2 group for debunking their FUD, lousy business etiquette. Feel bad for OwOComm (the designers), they did a great job but hooked up with the wrong people. 73 Dragan YT3ART
DiSlord Member Profile All Messages By This Member #15862 I not like V2, it need a lot of software support for get better result. Also not like use librares for hardware access (it slowdown it, but yes allow more easy change CPU if it need). Also about F version, it good platform (from hardware side) but also not get software support. Anyway H and H4 also have software support only from me and OneOfEleven. NanoVNA H or H4 i think can be better if not use DC-DC converters (use linear for all analog circuits, and separate power to every device), i see 32kHz noise on ADC (touch and vbat measure). At this moment i fully cleanup and reviewed all H and H4 code, and it stable and very compact. SI4432 at this moment not show good result (phase noise too bug) in all cases up to 1500MHz, SI5351 mode better (i get good resuls on 192kHz mode, and made some other fixes for sweep on this device, and port it to H and H4 version). It need more hardware improvement.
Larry Rothman All Messages By This Member #15877 Thank you for correcting my notes on this, Gabriel.? Sorry for the misunderstanding.? ... Larry On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 12:34 AM, Gabriel Tenma White<OwOwOwOwO123@...> wrote: "OwOComm designed the first V2 (S.A.A.) and Hugen, the second V2 (S.A.A.V2.2) It is my understanding that Hugen tweaked the SAA design somewhat to improve noise levels. " NO!!! V2_2 is the first production version sold by HCXQS. Everyone else copied the PCB verbatim and made no changes. I, however, have to consider the side of our client. They funded the entire design of the project, only to get it ripped off and for users to claim that copycats "designed" an "improved" S-A-A-2. No, they copied the PCB verbatim, the only improvements they did were adding a battery and enclosure. We are working on a new hardware revision, named V2-N, that will increase sweep speed 2x and reduce noise. This time however I've agreed to a time-limited protection of the design, and will only be releasing hardware layouts after a set time. It will also be only sold outside of China for a while to allow for some time before cloners copy it again. toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 31/07/2020 11:23, Larry Rothman wrote: There are actually two version 2 designs: OwOComm designed the first V2 (S.A.A.) and Hugen, the second V2 (S.A.A.V2.2) It is my understanding that Hugen tweaked the SAA design somewhat to improve noise levels. YMMV ? ? ? ? On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 8:01 PM, Dragan Milivojevic<d.milivojevic@...> wrote:? On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 01:26, Glen K4KV <glenk4kv@...> wrote: Although it is not important to me, I thought Hugen said he was using the Si chip not the AD chip to reach 1500Mhz in the new design.? I am not that familiar with the I guess I missed that, could not blame him if he made that decision just to avoid the nonsense from the HCXQS. SAA V2, and do not own one.? I trust Hugen, because the H4 was really good for the money. Not to get too deep into it, the current V2 missed the mark, and they could have hit a home run... He sells the V2 and it is a better design but the toxic behavior ... They indeed missed the mark, they could have ruled the market but the arrogance and bad logistics have done them. Got banned (temporarily) from the V2 group for debunking their FUD, lousy business etiquette. Feel bad for OwOComm (the designers), they did a great job but hooked up with the wrong people. ? 73 Dragan YT3ART
Dragan Milivojevic All Messages By This Member #15899 That is a sensible position, only people that need the board designs are the cloners and the people that want to improve upon the design. Since there were practically no attempts to improve the design by third parties no harm is done. We are working on a new hardware revision, named V2-N, that will toggle quoted message Show quoted text increase sweep speed 2x and reduce noise. This time however I've agreed to a time-limited protection of the design, and will only be releasing hardware layouts after a set time. It will also be only sold outside of China for a while to allow for some time before cloners copy it again.

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