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Source spectrum


 

FWIW Here is a display from my 8560A of the spectrum of the nanoVNA source producing a 10 MHz CW signal and another showing how it is connected.

The strong odd order harmonic content is probably the major limitation on the accuracy of the unit. I'm not aware of a way to correct the issue in software. If someone is, please explain. I'd really like to know about it.

Have Fun!
Reg


 

The software is able to ignore the odd harmonics of that square wave.
Works something like this:

Two Si5351 outputs are used.
CLK1 is what goes out to the DUT.
CLK0 is always 5khz higher than CLK1, they are mixed
in the three SA612A mixers, the resulting 3 channels of audio
are digitized by a 3 channel 16 bit ADC and the resultant data
fed to the ARM processor. All three channels of audio are
at 5khz, but have different amplitudes and phase.

The 5khz audio is filtered out using DSP techniques (an FFT)
inside the processor, any products resulting from harmonics will
not be 5khz.

For example, assume the signal to the DUT is 100 mhz.
So CLK1 is a 100mhz square wave out to the DUT,
it is mixed with CLK0 at 100.005 mhz resulting in that 5khz audio.
The 3'rd harmonics will be at 300.000 and 300.015,
resulting in 15khz audio which is easily rejected.

When operating at 600mhz, we're beyond the maximum frequency
that the Si5351 can produce. So CLK1 sends out a 200mhz
square wave to the DUT, and we mix that with CLK0 at 200.00166 mhz.
The third harmonic of CLK0 is 600.005 mhz, and it is now
only the third harmonics of CLK1 and CLK0 that produce
a 5khz mixing product.

Jerry, KE7ER

On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 08:42 PM, Reginald Beardsley wrote:
FWIW Here is a display from my 8560A of the spectrum of the nanoVNA source
producing a 10 MHz CW signal and another showing how it is connected.

The strong odd order harmonic content is probably the major limitation on the
accuracy of the unit. I'm not aware of a way to correct the issue in software.
If someone is, please explain. I'd really like to know about it.

Have Fun!
Reg


 

A great explanation Jerry! I was wondering that myself and you have made it very clear.

WA8TOD

On Sep 3, 2019, at 12:49 AM, Jerry Gaffke via Groups.Io <jgaffke@...> wrote:

The software is able to ignore the odd harmonics of that square wave.
Works something like this:

Two Si5351 outputs are used.
CLK1 is what goes out to the DUT.
CLK0 is always 5khz higher than CLK1, they are mixed
in the three SA612A mixers, the resulting 3 channels of audio
are digitized by a 3 channel 16 bit ADC and the resultant data
fed to the ARM processor. All three channels of audio are
at 5khz, but have different amplitudes and phase.

The 5khz audio is filtered out using DSP techniques (an FFT)
inside the processor, any products resulting from harmonics will
not be 5khz.

For example, assume the signal to the DUT is 100 mhz.
So CLK1 is a 100mhz square wave out to the DUT,
it is mixed with CLK0 at 100.005 mhz resulting in that 5khz audio.
The 3'rd harmonics will be at 300.000 and 300.015,
resulting in 15khz audio which is easily rejected.

When operating at 600mhz, we're beyond the maximum frequency
that the Si5351 can produce. So CLK1 sends out a 200mhz
square wave to the DUT, and we mix that with CLK0 at 200.00166 mhz.
The third harmonic of CLK0 is 600.005 mhz, and it is now
only the third harmonics of CLK1 and CLK0 that produce
a 5khz mixing product.

Jerry, KE7ER



On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 08:42 PM, Reginald Beardsley wrote:
FWIW Here is a display from my 8560A of the spectrum of the nanoVNA source
producing a 10 MHz CW signal and another showing how it is connected.

The strong odd order harmonic content is probably the major limitation on the
accuracy of the unit. I'm not aware of a way to correct the issue in software.
If someone is, please explain. I'd really like to know about it.

Have Fun!
Reg


 

On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 09:49 PM, Jerry Gaffke wrote:
When operating at 600mhz, we're beyond the maximum frequency
that the Si5351 can produce. So CLK1 sends out a 200mhz
square wave to the DUT, and we mix that with CLK0 at 200.00166 mhz.
The third harmonic of CLK0 is 600.005 mhz, and it is now
only the third harmonics of CLK1 and CLK0 that produce
a 5khz mixing product.
You are explaining well, except the SW uses above 300MHz the 3rd harmonic of one clock and the 5th harmonic of the other clock to avoid detecting the 3rd harmonic of the mixing product of the 1st harmonics of the clock's
Example 200MHz + 200.00166MHz produce from 1st harmonic 1.66kHz which will include a certain amount of 3rd harmonic at 5kHz.
Using 200MHz + 120.001MHz produces only 5kHz when their 3rd and 5th harmonic combine


 

Jerry,

Thank you for a very lucid explanation. This entire list has been like trying to drink from a firehose. I was sufficiently astonished that it worked at all that I had not got to how. Knowing the math and physics is *not* the same as knowing the engineering ;-)

I made the SA sweep to check my replacement of the connector I broke and was not aware of how the harmonics were suppressed.

Have Fun!
Reg


 

Erik,

Ah, very good. Thanks for the correction.
A complication I hadn't anticipated.

Was mostly guesswork on my part.
As I said at the start of post 1713, "Works something like this:"

Jerry, KE7ER

On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 06:53 AM, <erik@...> wrote:


On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 09:49 PM, Jerry Gaffke wrote:


When operating at 600mhz, we're beyond the maximum frequency
that the Si5351 can produce. So CLK1 sends out a 200mhz
square wave to the DUT, and we mix that with CLK0 at 200.00166 mhz.
The third harmonic of CLK0 is 600.005 mhz, and it is now
only the third harmonics of CLK1 and CLK0 that produce
a 5khz mixing product.
You are explaining well, except the SW uses above 300MHz the 3rd harmonic of
one clock and the 5th harmonic of the other clock to avoid detecting the 3rd
harmonic of the mixing product of the 1st harmonics of the clock's
Example 200MHz + 200.00166MHz produce from 1st harmonic 1.66kHz which will
include a certain amount of 3rd harmonic at 5kHz.
Using 200MHz + 120.001MHz produces only 5kHz when their 3rd and 5th harmonic
combine