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Semi-bad clone?


 

I received my NanoVNA last week, ordered from sqcase, a 'seller' here in
the UK. I think they are a Chinese supplier with stock in the UK but it
meant I got it quickly and it came with a battery. All for GBP 46.99, tax
included.

My NanoVNA looks like the 'bad clone' in Hugen's photo. Key features are
missing 'CH0' labelling on the front panel, no screening on the PCB and a
plastic back panel. The short circuit sma was missing so I made a temporary
one from a shorted PL259 and an SMA adapter.

It seems to produce plausible results when antenna testing despite the
temporary shorted calibration SMA and lack of screening but I plan to
compare it with a more expensive VNA soon.

73


 

Hi Mike

I've just bought an identical nanovna from the same seller in the UK, it seems to work ok, but I have nothing to compare it against, I would be interested in any comparisons you make with more expensive equipment.

John.


 

Hi John

I'll report back when I can but it may not be for a week or two. I know two
other people with more expensive VNAs. One cost >?1k but is suspect,
despite having just been 'repaired'. The owner of the other one is heading
off on hols for a week.

I hope you got the full calibration set btw. Mine was missing the short and
the seller hasn't responded to my ebay message. :-(

73

Mike

On Fri, 19 Jul 2019, 09:01 John Woods via Groups.Io, <g1euh=
[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Mike

I've just bought an identical nanovna from the same seller in the UK, it
seems to work ok, but I have nothing to compare it against, I would be
interested in any comparisons you make with more expensive equipment.

John.





 

Hi John, Mike,

Several folks have done various measurements including myself. Measurements and records between big box VNA and the nanoVNA would be of interest. However, that said, my best guess is that the agreement below a few hundred MHz will be excellent. For the most part that is what I have found although I did not bother with making recordings of the sweeps between instruments. I expect as you approach 900 MHz that the deviation between measured on big box vna and the nanoVNA will be larger. The simple fact is due to the accuracy and records stored for the calibration pieces. The SMA short, open and 50 ohm load, I SUSPECT are treated as ideal elements. They are certainly not ideal. I am in the process of finding out from the developer how these calibration pieces are handled. Regards, Alan


 

Hi Alan

Agreed that comparison with a big VNA would be v interesting. I'm not aware
that any of my friends have one of those though. Mind you at this price I
wouldn't expect too much. The frequency steps seem quite large to me, so
who knows what compromises have been made in calibration measurements?

I'm beginning to think we need a Wiki to pull all the information we're
gleaning about these VNAs into the same place.

73

Mike

On Fri, 19 Jul 2019, 20:25 alan victor, <avictor73@...> wrote:

Hi John, Mike,

Several folks have done various measurements including myself.
Measurements and records between big box VNA and the nanoVNA would be of
interest. However, that said, my best guess is that the agreement below a
few hundred MHz will be excellent. For the most part that is what I have
found although I did not bother with making recordings of the sweeps
between instruments. I expect as you approach 900 MHz that the deviation
between measured on big box vna and the nanoVNA will be larger. The simple
fact is due to the accuracy and records stored for the calibration pieces.
The SMA short, open and 50 ohm load, I SUSPECT are treated as ideal
elements. They are certainly not ideal. I am in the process of finding out
from the developer how these calibration pieces are handled. Regards, Alan




 

Hi Mike.

I did extensive measurements on narrow as well wide band filters. Also a number of antenna out in the field. I have compared results with VNA big box, Vector Z Meters and the results at HF are essentially spot on. At the price and with 101 data points... This little box is a GREAT value. I bought 2 and I may buy a third just to mess with in the lab.

Alan Victor, Ph.D.

W4AMV

________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Mike Brown <mbmail@...>
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 9:30 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] Semi-bad clone?

Hi Alan

Agreed that comparison with a big VNA would be v interesting. I'm not aware
that any of my friends have one of those though. Mind you at this price I
wouldn't expect too much. The frequency steps seem quite large to me, so
who knows what compromises have been made in calibration measurements?

I'm beginning to think we need a Wiki to pull all the information we're
gleaning about these VNAs into the same place.

73

Mike





On Fri, 19 Jul 2019, 20:25 alan victor, <avictor73@...> wrote:

Hi John, Mike,

Several folks have done various measurements including myself.
Measurements and records between big box VNA and the nanoVNA would be of
interest. However, that said, my best guess is that the agreement below a
few hundred MHz will be excellent. For the most part that is what I have
found although I did not bother with making recordings of the sweeps
between instruments. I expect as you approach 900 MHz that the deviation
between measured on big box vna and the nanoVNA will be larger. The simple
fact is due to the accuracy and records stored for the calibration pieces.
The SMA short, open and 50 ohm load, I SUSPECT are treated as ideal
elements. They are certainly not ideal. I am in the process of finding out
from the developer how these calibration pieces are handled. Regards, Alan




 

Hi Mike,

Here is a 3 pole helical filter centered at 465 MHz. The filter is "C" coupled so the skirt on the high side rolls more gentle than low side. The insertion loss and return loss as well center freq are pretty spot on with expected. The DR on the second pix shows we can see down at least 65 dB and if I set the reference point to the screen top, perhaps 70 dB. Next, I'll try the big box. I expect very similar results although if I were to read the R+jX values at each and every frequency point there will be delta values. Alan


 

Hi Alan

You've obviously got a good one there. I have been finding odd calibration
issues and finally worked out it mine is happier up to 450 MHz and not
going too low either, although the issue may be the span rather than the
frequencies. I currently have it set to 1.5 to 450 MHz and am seeing
repeatable results.

I was able to quickly compare mine with a MiniVNA Pro (which works up to
200 MHz) earlier - another budget VNA that costs GBP 380. I wasn't able to
capture screen shots but on the couple of things we tried the results
looked fairly close.

I've attached a photo showing what mine thinks of a dual band handheld
antenna, which looks plausible.

73

Mike

On Sat, 20 Jul 2019, 16:28 alan victor, <avictor73@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

Here is a 3 pole helical filter centered at 465 MHz. The filter is "C"
coupled so the skirt on the high side rolls more gentle than low side. The
insertion loss and return loss as well center freq are pretty spot on with
expected. The DR on the second pix shows we can see down at least 65 dB and
if I set the reference point to the screen top, perhaps 70 dB. Next, I'll
try the big box. I expect very similar results although if I were to read
the R+jX values at each and every frequency point there will be delta
values. Alan




 

Is the 4 trace a firmware thing, or hardware thing
Frank

On 7/20/2019 1:49 PM, Mike Brown wrote:
Hi Alan

You've obviously got a good one there. I have been finding odd calibration
issues and finally worked out it mine is happier up to 450 MHz and not
going too low either, although the issue may be the span rather than the
frequencies. I currently have it set to 1.5 to 450 MHz and am seeing
repeatable results.

I was able to quickly compare mine with a MiniVNA Pro (which works up to
200 MHz) earlier - another budget VNA that costs GBP 380. I wasn't able to
capture screen shots but on the couple of things we tried the results
looked fairly close.

I've attached a photo showing what mine thinks of a dual band handheld
antenna, which looks plausible.

73

Mike


On Sat, 20 Jul 2019, 16:28 alan victor, <avictor73@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

Here is a 3 pole helical filter centered at 465 MHz. The filter is "C"
coupled so the skirt on the high side rolls more gentle than low side. The
insertion loss and return loss as well center freq are pretty spot on with
expected. The DR on the second pix shows we can see down at least 65 dB and
if I set the reference point to the screen top, perhaps 70 dB. Next, I'll
try the big box. I expect very similar results although if I were to read
the R+jX values at each and every frequency point there will be delta
values. Alan




 

never mind. Just got back from vacation, and didn't read the other posts

On 7/20/2019 2:00 PM, Frank S wrote:
Is the 4 trace a firmware thing, or hardware thing
Frank

On 7/20/2019 1:49 PM, Mike Brown wrote:
Hi Alan

You've obviously got a good one there. I have been finding odd calibration
issues and finally worked out it mine is happier up to 450 MHz and not
going too low either, although the issue may be the span rather than the
frequencies. I currently have it set to 1.5 to 450 MHz and am seeing
repeatable results.

I was able to quickly compare mine with a MiniVNA Pro (which works up to
200 MHz) earlier - another budget VNA that costs GBP 380. I wasn't able to
capture screen shots but on the couple of things we tried the results
looked fairly close.

I've attached a photo showing what mine thinks of a dual band handheld
antenna, which looks plausible.

73

Mike


On Sat, 20 Jul 2019, 16:28 alan victor, <avictor73@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

Here is a 3 pole helical filter centered at 465 MHz. The filter is "C"
coupled so the skirt on the high side rolls more gentle than low side. The
insertion loss and return loss as well center freq are pretty spot on with
expected. The DR on the second pix shows we can see down at least 65 dB and
if I set the reference point to the screen top, perhaps 70 dB. Next, I'll
try the big box. I expect very similar results although if I were to read
the R+jX values at each and every frequency point there will be delta
values. Alan






 

Hi Frank, The 4 trace or 4 track vs. 2 trace or 2 track thing is a FIRMWARE THING.

All of the nanoVNA devices as far as I know have the same hardware and share the same system schematic. Although there were mentions of the receiver mixer, SA602 vs. SA612.

Alan

Yes Mike,

If I want to do accurate HF stuff, I would do a cal dedicated to 1 MHz-30 MHz. Period.

If VHF is your thing, perhaps, 100-500 MHz. And so on.

I'll look again and see if I have any networks that can take this VNA close to 900 MHz without going past 900 MHz. I had some dielectric multipole filters but their center freq was 902 MHz.

________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Frank S <ka2fwc@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2019 6:00 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] Semi-bad clone?

Is the 4 trace a firmware thing, or hardware thing
Frank

On 7/20/2019 1:49 PM, Mike Brown wrote:
Hi Alan

You've obviously got a good one there. I have been finding odd calibration
issues and finally worked out it mine is happier up to 450 MHz and not
going too low either, although the issue may be the span rather than the
frequencies. I currently have it set to 1.5 to 450 MHz and am seeing
repeatable results.

I was able to quickly compare mine with a MiniVNA Pro (which works up to
200 MHz) earlier - another budget VNA that costs GBP 380. I wasn't able to
capture screen shots but on the couple of things we tried the results
looked fairly close.

I've attached a photo showing what mine thinks of a dual band handheld
antenna, which looks plausible.

73

Mike


On Sat, 20 Jul 2019, 16:28 alan victor, <avictor73@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

Here is a 3 pole helical filter centered at 465 MHz. The filter is "C"
coupled so the skirt on the high side rolls more gentle than low side. The
insertion loss and return loss as well center freq are pretty spot on with
expected. The DR on the second pix shows we can see down at least 65 dB and
if I set the reference point to the screen top, perhaps 70 dB. Next, I'll
try the big box. I expect very similar results although if I were to read
the R+jX values at each and every frequency point there will be delta
values. Alan




 

Hi Mike

I am also missing the "short" from the calibration set.
I'll let you know if I get anywhere with a complaint I've put in to the vendor,.

John.


 

On 7/20/2019 4:13 PM, John Woods via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Mike

I am also missing the "short" from the calibration set.
I'll let you know if I get anywhere with a complaint I've put in to the vendor,.
Good luck with that!?? I also had the Short missing and didn't think the vendor would even know what I was talking about, but it was pretty easy to make one with a PC mount male SMA and a scrap of brass foil left over from making the absent shields on mine. While I was at it I made a good Load with two 100 Ohm 0.1% 805 Rs on another SMA.? This is a lot closer than either of the Loads that came with mine.

For what is seemingly "a bad clone" I'm pretty happy now with it's performance.

Dan - ac6ao


Dr. David Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd
 

On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 01:52, Dan Rae via Groups.Io <danrae=
[email protected]> wrote:

On 7/20/2019 4:13 PM, John Woods via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Mike

I am also missing the "short" from the calibration set.
I'll let you know if I get anywhere with a complaint I've put in to the
vendor,.
Good luck with that! I also had the Short missing and didn't think the
vendor would even know what I was talking about, but it was pretty easy
to make one with a PC mount male SMA and a scrap of brass foil left over
from making the absent shields on mine.

Well, if something is missing that should be there, then if bought from
eBay, I would stick in an ¡°item not as described ¡° claim.

My company



produces VNA calibration kits, so I know a fair bit about how they should
be designed. Since the nanoVNA doesn¡¯t allow one to specify a delay of the
short, any attempt to make a short the way you are doing will be worst than
having a proper short.

The short supplied with my kit looks like it is an Amphenol one, which are
not very good, but will be better than you can make the way you describe.

I have not verified it yet, but I think that you will be better not using
the open standard at all, as that will add unwanted fringe capacitance, so
make the open less like the idealised open I believe that the code expects
to see. At 900 MHz an SMA connector will not radiate, so there¡¯s no need to
shield the conductor.

While I was at it I made a good
Load with two 100 Ohm 0.1% 805 Rs on another SMA. This is a lot closer
than either of the Loads that came with mine.

You really need to test that at RF frequencies though. I have some loads
with a measured return loss of at least 45 dB at 900 MHz, although the
uncertainty in the measurement is fairly high as the loads I used for
calibration, which are the loads in my 26.5 GHz 3.5 mm HP 85052B VNA cal
kit, have a return loss of at least 48 dB.

Unfortunately I could not sell our loads at price of a nanoVNA, so it¡¯s
unlikely nanoVNA uses would want them.


For what is seemingly "a bad clone" I'm pretty happy now with it's
performance.

Good.


Dan - ac6ao
Dave, G8WRB.


--
Dr. David Kirkby,


 

Good luck John. Not too difficult to make your own short as long as you
have a spare SMA plug of course. Shame Maplin are no more!

73

Mike

On Sun, 21 Jul 2019, 00:13 John Woods via Groups.Io, <g1euh=
[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Mike

I am also missing the "short" from the calibration set.
I'll let you know if I get anywhere with a complaint I've put in to the
vendor,.

John.