Re: First PCB pictures of the V2
"We all stand on the shoulders of giants."
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If one needs a spectrum analyzer on the cheap, try the AirSpy (full units to 1.8 Ghz - not the HF+ or Discovery) for around $200. SpectrumSpy is included with the SDR# download at no cost. It is the SW of choice for the AirSpy offerings. The spectrum analyzer has a minimum span of 10 MHz and a maximum of 20 MHz through 1.8 GHz. While it, as well, is not an HP/Agilent/Keysite, its pretty good. Even the HP 8753C VNA does not make a good spectrum analyzer, so why expect the NANOVNA to do same? It's the NANOVNA and the HP 8753C are designed and purposed as a Vector Network Analyzer, not a spectrum analyzer. Dave - W?LEV On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 7:13 PM Bob Albert via Groups.Io <bob91343= [email protected]> wrote: As the owner of two nanoVNAs and two lab grade VNAs I have run
comparisons between them. They all do their intended job well, and can be
very useful in testing hardware, as well as providing a nearly priceless
opportunity for education in high frequency electronics.
Yes the expensive jobs have important advantages over the little unit.
But when one factors in certain characteristics, such as convenience and
cost and user interface, the nano gives far more per dollar. Yes I can do
better spectrum analysis with the big units and my measurements are both
more accurate and have better noise performance for tiny signals.
So my educated analysis indicates that the nano needs to be a part of any
laboratory for casual measurements. These casual measurements are probably
more than enough to satisfy the needs of any radio amateur or other
hobbyist. For commercial and industrial uses, the expensive units are
almost mandatory, as their accuracy can be verified and their frequency
range wider, not to mention control over bandwidth.
My attempts at spectrum analysis with the nano have proven it to be not
especially useful. For instance, there are images. Fine grequency control
is lacking. There is no control over resolution. Precise analysis of
filters is not one of its strengths.
Notwithstanding these and other limitations, I find the nano the unit of
choice for the majority of my measurements. This may not be true of anyone
else but I am a satisfied customer. One of my big VNAs only goes up toe
150 MHz and that's useful for most of my spectrum analysis and other lower
frequency work, which is the majority of my interest. The other goes up to
a few GHz but my needs seldom go there. The small size and rapid
deployment of the nano make it a fun unit to operate; while I am doing some
work with it I notice things I might not see with the other VNAs.
So take what I say for what it's worth and for what you pay for it, and
draw your own conclusions.
73, Bob K6DDX On Monday, December 23, 2019, 10:43:44 AM PST, hwalker <
herbwalker2476@...> wrote:
hwalker wrote:
The Jan-Feb 2020 Issue of the ARRL QEX magazine has a cover story on the
NanoVNA by Dr. George Steber:
"Dr. George R. Steber, WB9LVI, reviews a tiny vector network analyzer
(VNA) introduced for about US$50 and compares its capabilities with
full-featured lab grade analyzers that cost thousands of dollars. An RF VNA
is the instrument of choice for measuring the electrical parameters of
antennas, components, filters and more. Dr. Steber describes his
experiences with the tiny VNA, termed a NanoVNA. He begins with a short
description of some technical specifications, and relates how he acquired
the NanoVNA. He then includes historical details on the evolution of the
product. Next, he describes the general architecture of the instrument, and
finally he describes the operation of the unit and including examples."
===============================================================================================
My original intention in starting this topic was to let our users know
about the QEX NanoVNA article and to acknowledge one of my favorite
technical authors. The original post does not, as stated by at least one
responder, in any way, shape, or form advocate copyright infringement.
Dr. Steber usually gives a down to earth technical description of a
device's inner workings before preceding on to numerous practical use
applications. Those expecting some type of a-b comparison with high end
commercial VNA's are likely to be disappointed.
I guess the second reason for starting the topic was to acknowledge the
NanoVNA's semi-Rockstar status as the cover boy for QEX magazine :)
Happy holidays,
- Herb
-- *Dave - W?LEV* *Just Let Darwin Work* *Just Think*
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Re: NanoVNA connected to Amazon Fire tablet
Larry Rothman wrote: Read my note on purchasing Chromebooks. They actually come with an 'expiry date' after which Google will no longer offer any type of updates. A number of forum members have installed Linux on their older Chromebooks due to this 'Feature'. Just did this to one owned by a friend. His Chromebook wasn't even that old yet, with a January 2019 date on the bottom. Yet they were already making noises about it going EOL soon. Putting a different OS on there is somewhat a convoluted procedure but not at all difficult. Best bet for most devices is to just completely DITCH ChromeOS completely. Some hardware that's not true, but the run of the mill Chromebook takes linux-only installations in stride, and once it's done you'll love it. Most devices have tutorials on-line, be sure to look yours up before trying this. After you get the thing into developer mode, it's fairly simple. There are several alternative BIOS files to choose from, and the "GalliumOS" Linux distribution is optimized for Chrome hardware, and is generally quite nice. If your Chromebook is one of the smaller ones (16GB or less) then you need to set it up to use a largish USB or SD memory device, or an external hard disk or SSD, as the /home directory if you intend on keeping more than a little data on there. My friend is ecstatic about GalliumOS on his little machine. It was bloody useless under ChromeOS, that thing being just a glorified web-browser meant only to access Google's revenue-generating stuff. He now has a real desktop, a real office suite with full capability for printing and formatting documents and spreadsheets and presentations. And it's all stored LOCALLY, and not out somewhere in never-never-land, with who knows what sort of security. -- w.will n9kdy
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look in the trash folder and all mail sent, could still be there.
Tom Sides KI7FTK
cell 602-499-9562
skype: Thomas Sides
4243 e. st Charles ave
Phx AZ 85042
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 12:12 PM Luc ON7DQ <on7dq@...> wrote: Another oops
I cleared out my spam folder and saw just in the last moment that it
contained a mail from (I think) a G6xxx station, with nanoVNA in the title
... probably a comment on my presentation.
But it was already too late ... a moment later the mail was gone and I
can't recover it
So if you sent me a mail , pse send it again
Tnx - Luc ON7DQ
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As the owner of two nanoVNAs and two lab grade VNAs I have run comparisons between them.? They all do their intended job well, and can be very useful in testing hardware, as well as providing a nearly priceless opportunity for education in high frequency electronics.
Yes the expensive jobs have important advantages over the little unit.? But when one factors in certain characteristics, such as convenience and cost and user interface, the nano gives far more per dollar.? Yes I can do better spectrum analysis with the big units and my measurements are both more accurate and have better noise performance for tiny signals.
So my educated analysis indicates that the nano needs to be a part of any laboratory for casual measurements.? These casual measurements are probably more than enough to satisfy the needs of any radio amateur or other hobbyist.? For commercial and industrial uses, the expensive units are almost mandatory, as their accuracy can be verified and their frequency range wider, not to mention control over bandwidth.
My attempts at spectrum analysis with the nano have proven it to be not especially useful.? For instance, there are images.? Fine grequency control is lacking.? There is no control over resolution.? Precise analysis of filters is not one of its strengths.
Notwithstanding these and other limitations, I find the nano the unit of choice for the majority of my measurements.? This may not be true of anyone else but I am a satisfied customer.? One of my big VNAs only goes up toe 150 MHz and that's useful for most of my spectrum analysis and other lower frequency work, which is the majority of my interest.? The other goes up to a few GHz but my needs seldom go there.? The small size and rapid deployment of the nano make it a fun unit to operate; while I am doing some work with it I notice things I might not see with the other VNAs.
So take what I say for what it's worth and for what you pay for it, and draw your own conclusions.
73, Bob K6DDX On Monday, December 23, 2019, 10:43:44 AM PST, hwalker <herbwalker2476@...> wrote:
hwalker wrote:
The Jan-Feb 2020 Issue of the ARRL QEX magazine has a cover story on the NanoVNA by Dr. George Steber:
"Dr. George R. Steber, WB9LVI, reviews a tiny vector network analyzer (VNA) introduced for about US$50 and compares its capabilities with full-featured lab grade analyzers that cost thousands of dollars. An RF VNA is the instrument of choice for measuring the electrical parameters of antennas, components, filters and more. Dr. Steber describes his experiences with the tiny VNA, termed a NanoVNA. He begins with a short description of some technical specifications, and relates how he acquired the NanoVNA. He then includes historical details on the evolution of the product. Next, he describes the general architecture of the instrument, and finally he describes the operation of the unit and including examples."
===============================================================================================
? ? My original intention in starting this topic was to let our users know about the QEX NanoVNA article and to acknowledge one of my favorite technical authors. The original post does not, as stated by at least one responder, in any way, shape, or form advocate copyright infringement.
? Dr. Steber usually gives a down to earth technical description of a device's inner workings before preceding on to numerous practical use applications.? Those expecting some type of a-b comparison with high end commercial VNA's are likely to be disappointed.
? I guess the second reason for starting the topic was to acknowledge the NanoVNA's semi-Rockstar status as the cover boy for QEX magazine? :)
Happy holidays,
- Herb
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Another oops
I cleared out my spam folder and saw just in the last moment that it contained a mail from (I think) a G6xxx station, with nanoVNA in the title ... probably a comment on my presentation.
But it was already too late ... a moment later the mail was gone and I can't recover it
So if you sent me a mail , pse send it again
Tnx - Luc ON7DQ
|
hwalker wrote:
The Jan-Feb 2020 Issue of the ARRL QEX magazine has a cover story on the NanoVNA by Dr. George Steber:
"Dr. George R. Steber, WB9LVI, reviews a tiny vector network analyzer (VNA) introduced for about US$50 and compares its capabilities with full-featured lab grade analyzers that cost thousands of dollars. An RF VNA is the instrument of choice for measuring the electrical parameters of antennas, components, filters and more. Dr. Steber describes his experiences with the tiny VNA, termed a NanoVNA. He begins with a short description of some technical specifications, and relates how he acquired the NanoVNA. He then includes historical details on the evolution of the product. Next, he describes the general architecture of the instrument, and finally he describes the operation of the unit and including examples."
===============================================================================================
My original intention in starting this topic was to let our users know about the QEX NanoVNA article and to acknowledge one of my favorite technical authors. The original post does not, as stated by at least one responder, in any way, shape, or form advocate copyright infringement.
Dr. Steber usually gives a down to earth technical description of a device's inner workings before preceding on to numerous practical use applications. Those expecting some type of a-b comparison with high end commercial VNA's are likely to be disappointed.
I guess the second reason for starting the topic was to acknowledge the NanoVNA's semi-Rockstar status as the cover boy for QEX magazine :)
Happy holidays,
- Herb
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Re: Using an external RF bridge with NanoVNA
Thank you all for the nice info. The puzzle is much closer to completion.
In the mean time I have received the bridge, made first measurements. So far I can see that |S21| using the bridge agree very well with |S11| when connecting the DUT to CH0, which was expected. At least I can calculate the magnitude of DUT's impedance, knowing RL.
I've asked Rune, the author of the wonderful piece of software NanoVNA-saver to add external bridge support, as suggested by Erik (thank you both).
73 Ady YO2NAA
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On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 03:24 PM, Christoph Schw?rzler wrote:
I don't see any possibility to suppress charging when using NanoVNA Saver
anyway, besides removing the LiPo if this is the problem. Is there any?
Then connect usb and wait until battery will be charged to 100 % and charge led stops blinking. After that you can start measurement. The effect will be significantly reduced.
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Re: First PCB pictures of the V2
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 08:44 AM, Oristo wrote:
Give it a rest
==========================================================
Oristo, I second your thoughts. My two favorite quotes regarding this are:
"There is nothing new under the sun." and "We all stand on the shoulders of giants."
There is a difference between plagiarism and writing the same thing in your own words. Edy555, the original NanoVNA developer, acknowledged that hugen's effort went over and above his own in pcb layout, battery management, frequency range extension and pc software. Edy555 has only requested that hugen change the name of his retail product to "NanoVNA-H" to distinguish it from Edy555's limited production run kit. Edy555 own development effort was based on the popular DIY DG8SAQ VNWA.
Edy555, hugen, and Gabriel are all true innovators in their own fashion. They have contributed and continue to contribute to the development of the concept of the NanoVNA, Other manufacturers (NanoVNA-F being the exception) have blindly reverse engineered the PCB design of hugen and have not added any other intellectual contribution. They are the ones the word "cloner" should be reserved for. Without the continued contributions of edy555, hugen, Gabriel and those of some highly talented members (both programmer's and documentation writers) of this group, the NanoVNA would not be enjoying its current widespread popularity.
Happy Holidays,
- Herb
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I could write an article comparing between the NANOVNA and the HP 8753C with associated S-Parameter Test Set both of which I have. But, I'm not so inclined as I've satisfied myself that the two, over their respective measurement ranges, compare extremely well within measurement error (operator rigorousness). So, that having been written, be rest assured anything I've measured between the two instruments compares extremely favorably. But, don't expect $40k performance out of a $50 instrument. The noise floor is the big difference. But, do amateurs really need 100+ dB dynamic range to 6 GHz?. What the NANOVNA offers in that respect is far more than adequate for amateur purposes. As a matter of fact, its far more than needed to do all the amateur measurements required, with the possible exception of tuning a set of BPBR cans. Other than that, its amazing what the designers have embodied in a $50+ piece of gear! It's no toy!!!! It offers performance far beyond anything the amateur can afford, well into and above $1K range. It's WAY BEYOND a toy and truly does compare favorably to the 8753C. It's an outstanding piece of test equipment which the average amateur should learn to use and appreciate. Suppose I am late to get on the bus. However, I've been reading as this developed and made a choice not to jump in. I took the belly aching as due to not being able to (legally) distribute the QEX article to this group and beyond. Anyone could scan it in and (illegally) distribute it. Well, today, I jumped in. As I pointed out in my last email, there are many other free sources available with only a www search than the single article published (under copyright) in QEX. Not defending copyrights or what ever, but the capability of the NANOVNA. Dave - W?LEV . On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 2:39 AM stone_ridge_road <xdavid@...> wrote:
Not all. I just think it's funny how easily people will rationalize
their behavior, and I'm referring to the guy who started this thread as
well as the guy who thinks W0RW isn't engaging in copyright abuse.
Some of the other comments on free use have been informative for me, but
I still think it's telling that nobody has thought to simply ask the
author of the article for a free summary of his conclusions.
I don't know what links you referring to either .... I don't believe
I've posted any relative to this thread.
73,
Dave AB7E
On 12/22/2019 6:00 PM, Frank Howell wrote:
Wow, Dave! You got in the bus very late, didn¡¯t you?
NONE of us are interested in this new QEX article for VNA theory! It¡¯s about the empirical comparison of the NanoVNA versus other higher grade
VNAs. Do you get that difference? I¡¯ve got about a GB of books and articles
(including the ones you¡¯ve put links to instead of actually reading this
thread) on VNA theory, tutorials, user & service manuals, etc.
Way back on Saturday Night Live, Emily Litella used to get in the bus
late, too. But when she caught on, she exclaimed, Never mind!
What¡¯s in your wallet? Lol
-- *Dave - W?LEV* *Just Let Darwin Work* *Just Think*
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Nice job Luc. An english version will be very nice.
Kleibe PP2KR
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Good luck Arie, veel succes !
Feel free to use anything you think is useful.
You can always distribute my presentation as "extra" reading material.
And oops, I forgot to mention in my first post that if anyone thinks I violated their copyright ... pse contact me off list to set things straight ;-)
73,
Luc ON7DQ
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Re: NanoVNA connected to Amazon Fire tablet
Amazon has updated the various Fire tablets a number of times over the years. Many of their devices, even including ones that were being sold earlier in 2019, are stuck on Fire OS 5, which is derived from Android 5.1 Lollipop. Those include the Fire HD 8 through the 2017 model (replaced in 2018) and the Fire HD 10 through the 2017 model (replaced in 2019). Some other models run Fire OS 6, based on Android 7 Nougat. They include the 2018 version of the Fire HD 10 and the 2019 version of the Fire 7. The newest version of Fire OS is 7, based on Android 9 Pie. The only model to date that runs that version is the 2019 version of the Fire HD 10. Amazon doesn't do major version upgrades of Fire OS on their existing devices, despite the minimal hardware differences between them. (It probably means that they don't want to bother to implement clean upgrades that preserve all user data.) That means that the older ones get stuck on earlier versions of the Android SDK and won't run some newer apps. On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 11:04 AM Lawrence Macionski via Groups.Io <am_fm_radio@...> wrote: hwalker- L.Rothman-
A couple of weeks after I bought the FIRE as it's only 4 months old
yesterday. Amazon sent me a "Special Offer" to trade in my FIRE for the
"Latest". I felt it was a "Bulk email" to all FIRE Owners on their list,
which it was, but they never indicated #1 there was a problem #2 the
problem will continue as new apps are released that take advantage of later
versions of Android 5.. which was obsolete that day I bought it..I'm not
sure but They were haaving a "PRIME DAY" and suckered me like they did Joe
and Sally Sixpack.. What pisses me off more I gave away my 7 inch quad core
Samsung to a deserving young lady who lost a baby to SIDS. She was here
last weekend housecleaning for some Christmas money. I should trade back
for the FIRE.. And I bought the fire with 64Gb RAM not 32.... Anyhow... 2
options - Amazon offers 7.3.1.1 as a download .bin file... Yet no
instructions. How woul done install it and would it work, or did they
change hardware. Both are Octo-cores..
I saw this too.. Has anyone tried it... the claims seem to indicate an
advantage to where I am at with regard to being "Throttled" by Amazon. BUT-
it does not change the level of my OS... My point being even if I
"UN-Throttle" Amazon will the NovaVNA app run on OS based on Android 5...
Here is the link:
Merry Christmas to all, I'm leaving for the Airport, I'm schelping the
family too cheap to hire an UBER driver today..relatives coming to town,
bearing critizims and opinions galore..Tiz the season... reminder to
self--Stop at Liquor store. The 3 beers I put in the Fridge after Field
Days are hanging on the tree empty as of last night.....
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Re: First PCB pictures of the V2
Stealing intellectual property Give it a rest
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Re: NanoVNA connected to Amazon Fire tablet
Read my note on purchasing Chromebooks. They actually come with an 'expiry date' after which Google will no longer offer any type of updates. A number of forum members have installed Linux on their older Chromebooks due to this 'Feature'.? /g/nanovna-users/message/7894Looks like Amazon is learning from Google
On Monday, December 23, 2019, 11:04:18 a.m. GMT-5, Lawrence Macionski via Groups.Io <am_fm_radio@...> wrote:
hwalker- L.Rothman-
A couple of weeks after I bought the FIRE as it's only 4 months old yesterday. Amazon sent me a "Special Offer" to trade in my FIRE for the "Latest". I felt it was a "Bulk email" to all FIRE Owners on their list, which it was, but they never indicated #1 there was a problem #2 the problem will continue as new apps are released that take advantage of later versions of Android 5.. which was obsolete that day I bought it..I'm not sure but They were haaving a "PRIME DAY" and suckered me like they did Joe and Sally Sixpack.. What pisses me off more I gave away my 7 inch quad core Samsung to a deserving young lady who lost a baby to SIDS. She was here last weekend housecleaning for some Christmas money. I should trade back for the FIRE.. And I bought the fire with 64Gb RAM not 32.... Anyhow... 2 options - Amazon offers 7.3.1.1 as a download .bin file... Yet no instructions. How woul done install it and would it work, or did they change hardware. Both are Octo-cores..
I saw this too.. Has anyone tried it... the claims seem to indicate an advantage to where I am at with regard to being "Throttled" by Amazon. BUT- it does not change the level of my OS...? My point being even if I "UN-Throttle" Amazon will the NovaVNA app run on OS based on Android 5... Here is the link:
Merry Christmas to all, I'm leaving for the Airport, I'm schelping the family too cheap to hire an UBER driver today..relatives coming to town, bearing critizims and opinions galore..Tiz the season... reminder to self--Stop at Liquor store. The 3 beers I put in the Fridge after Field Days are hanging on the tree empty as of last night.....
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Re: Choke Series resonant frequency measurement
Thanks for the feedback and link Ady.
Once the cal is complete, the measurement plane is 50 ohms. Assume the cal is accurate and complete, the fixture will actually be a larger error contributor than the vna itself. It cannot be over emphasized that these large chokes must be measured in-situation as they are used. The parasitic present will be altered dependent on their placement.
I had this vna running for some other work and took a look at one of these larger unmodified plate chokes. The first clockwise crossing is the standard SRF of the parallel resonate point. Sorry for the blur photo but you can see the 2- series resonance loops, one at ~ 15 MHz, the larger, and a second smaller one at 21 MHz. This second small loop is problematic. This measurement is taken with 401 date points.
Use of the vna will require more than 101 data points to properly resolve the loops. Use of the feature in PC saver routine is required. Cal over several 100 points is necessary to achieve the loop signature clearly.
Alan
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Re: First PCB pictures of the V2
It would not. GPL:ed software does not care about the license of the hardware it runs on.
If it did, Dell and Lenovo would have to release the schematics and board files of their offerings running Linux out of the box :)
Edy555 also released the schematics under a permissive license, but the pcb artwork was not released. Hugens NanoVNA-G is their original pcb artwork, even if it is firmware compatible with the original NanoVNA.
Similarily thus NanoVNA 3ghz/SAA/v2 is original artwork.
Only thing in common with other NanoVNA's is the name and firmware compability.
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Re: NanoVNA connected to Amazon Fire tablet
hwalker- L.Rothman-
A couple of weeks after I bought the FIRE as it's only 4 months old yesterday. Amazon sent me a "Special Offer" to trade in my FIRE for the "Latest". I felt it was a "Bulk email" to all FIRE Owners on their list, which it was, but they never indicated #1 there was a problem #2 the problem will continue as new apps are released that take advantage of later versions of Android 5.. which was obsolete that day I bought it..I'm not sure but They were haaving a "PRIME DAY" and suckered me like they did Joe and Sally Sixpack.. What pisses me off more I gave away my 7 inch quad core Samsung to a deserving young lady who lost a baby to SIDS. She was here last weekend housecleaning for some Christmas money. I should trade back for the FIRE.. And I bought the fire with 64Gb RAM not 32.... Anyhow... 2 options - Amazon offers 7.3.1.1 as a download .bin file... Yet no instructions. How woul done install it and would it work, or did they change hardware. Both are Octo-cores..
I saw this too.. Has anyone tried it... the claims seem to indicate an advantage to where I am at with regard to being "Throttled" by Amazon. BUT- it does not change the level of my OS... My point being even if I "UN-Throttle" Amazon will the NovaVNA app run on OS based on Android 5... Here is the link:
Merry Christmas to all, I'm leaving for the Airport, I'm schelping the family too cheap to hire an UBER driver today..relatives coming to town, bearing critizims and opinions galore..Tiz the season... reminder to self--Stop at Liquor store. The 3 beers I put in the Fridge after Field Days are hanging on the tree empty as of last night.....
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Re: New extended Tutorial Version 1.5. for the NanoVNA-H
Hello Gunthard, Thank You very much for your wonderful web site with so many GREAT tutorials ! NE7LS On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 10:54 PM Gunthard Kraus <mail@...> wrote: Hello Friends,
I have my tutorial extended by a chapter "The NanoVNA-H used up to 1500
(1300) MHz" and uploaded to my Homepage ( www.gunthard-kraus.de) as
Version 1.5.
The chapter contains also a 110 MHz LPF tested up to 1300 MHz as a
practical example.
Have fun with it.
73's
Gunthard , DG8GB
-- n_n
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Oristo
Tominaz
Kleibe PP2KR
Shirley Dulcey KE1L
Ismo V??n?nen OH2FTG
Larry Macionski